Got a question...
4DSC
10-16-2005, 02:33 PM
Howdy, I just have this question that hopefully some of you can help me out with. Two of my friends have been arguing whos car can handle better. One drives an 06' BMW 330i Auto(no sport package), and the other drives a 98' Nissan Maxima SE Auto(modified suspension) The Maxima's suspension mods include Tokico Illumina adjustables with Eibach springs, rear sway bar, front stabilizer bar, and some other minor things. I checked out their skidpad and slalom records in mags and they aren't that far apart at all. I was hoping to set-up some cone challenge for both of these cars to see which can out do the other since around NY where I live, there aren't any real road courses. Anybody got any ideas on a proper way to test these cars out in the handling department? Thanks.
drftk1d
10-16-2005, 04:16 PM
have someone knowledgable drive both of them, give an opinon.
where are you in ny
where are you in ny
TheStang00
10-16-2005, 04:35 PM
my mustang outhandles all!!!!!!!!
flatlander757
10-16-2005, 04:59 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Misc/stopchangingsubject.jpg
:lol:
I'd guess the Maxima would be better for handling than the BMW, probably because the 3 series isn't exactly performance oriented, more for a low budget luxury car.
:lol:
I'd guess the Maxima would be better for handling than the BMW, probably because the 3 series isn't exactly performance oriented, more for a low budget luxury car.
drftk1d
10-16-2005, 05:11 PM
...the 3 series isn't exactly performance oriented, more for a low budget luxury car.
:screwy:
:screwy:
-The Stig-
10-16-2005, 06:37 PM
:screwy:
Yeah, I have to agree... the 3 series isn't performance oriented? Um, the 325, and the 330s are fairly sporty for a comfy reardrive coupe/sedan.
Letes not forget the M3 is based off the 3 series. I suppose that's not all that performance oriented.
Yeah, I have to agree... the 3 series isn't performance oriented? Um, the 325, and the 330s are fairly sporty for a comfy reardrive coupe/sedan.
Letes not forget the M3 is based off the 3 series. I suppose that's not all that performance oriented.
CBFryman
10-16-2005, 06:52 PM
still, if the stock maxima's skid pad was close to the 3 series then with the listen suspension mods skid pad would probably be in favor of the maxima, however this is assumeing the traction loss was due strictly to the cars inability to either accelerate more or to properly distribute force over all 4 tires to give optimal traction...if the skid pad's limiting factor was the tires suspension will some where in the jack squat to the hill-o-beans area if the tires where not upgraded to a stickier compound.
but actual handleing aspects in real world driving have more to do then just what lateral G's a car can pull. responsiveness to driver input, feed back, and rebound play major roles as well. a car that can pull over 1 lateral G on the skid pad may have a hughe delay to driver input and may have little feed back or the suspension may not rebound to set up for another curve (in an S curve situation) or for more lateral acceleration.
heed drftk1d advise if you want a true answear.
but actual handleing aspects in real world driving have more to do then just what lateral G's a car can pull. responsiveness to driver input, feed back, and rebound play major roles as well. a car that can pull over 1 lateral G on the skid pad may have a hughe delay to driver input and may have little feed back or the suspension may not rebound to set up for another curve (in an S curve situation) or for more lateral acceleration.
heed drftk1d advise if you want a true answear.
clawhammer
10-16-2005, 08:06 PM
Go to an auto-x challenge, but there you're introducing other factors, most importantly driver skill.
4DSC
10-17-2005, 10:39 PM
Sorry for the late response, been waiten for responses at the CP, but forgot I never subscribed to the thread. :disappoin
have someone knowledgable drive both of them, give an opinon.
where are you in ny
That wouldn't be such a bad idea, but these hard headed guys won't stop there. They need visual proof, and the Auto X idea below wasn't too bad, but I really have no clue how that sport works since I notice the FWD Mini MG's rule there, and a place like that might not be the best place for these cars. I may be mistaken. I live in Brooklyn by the way.
my mustang outhandles all!!!!!!!!
Not my Four Door Sports Car... :p
I'd guess the Maxima would be better for handling than the BMW, probably because the 3 series isn't exactly performance oriented, more for a low budget luxury car.
Hehe, yea right. My Beamer buddy should see this.
still, if the stock maxima's skid pad was close to the 3 series then with the listen suspension mods skid pad would probably be in favor of the maxima, however this is assumeing the traction loss was due strictly to the cars inability to either accelerate more or to properly distribute force over all 4 tires to give optimal traction...if the skid pad's limiting factor was the tires suspension will some where in the jack squat to the hill-o-beans area if the tires where not upgraded to a stickier compound.
but actual handleing aspects in real world driving have more to do then just what lateral G's a car can pull. responsiveness to driver input, feed back, and rebound play major roles as well. a car that can pull over 1 lateral G on the skid pad may have a hughe delay to driver input and may have little feed back or the suspension may not rebound to set up for another curve (in an S curve situation) or for more lateral acceleration.
heed drftk1d advise if you want a true answear.
In stock form, yes the skid pad is fairly close with the 330i at 88g, and the Maxima trailing not too fair behind at somewhere around 86g even with it's cool rear minivan suspension they started putting on in 95'. I've been driven in both cars under extreme conditions. Basically, the BMW fish tails, and the Maxima understeers. Thats all I could tell from the passenger seat. Both cars take speeds at fairly the same speeds, but seems the BMW driver is a bit more dedicated and experienced. I know one thing though, the suspension set up and technology the BMW boasts is lightyears ahead of the Maxima. Hopefully soon enough I can get to test drive both, but Im sure they won't take my word for it because each is sticking to the idea of one being better than the other, until they can physically see one getting outhandled by the other. :screwy: Yes, the easiest way would be for someone who knows there stuff to test drive both, but that really won't be happening. Maybe Auto X is the only available option for these two :dunno:
Go to an auto-x challenge, but there you're introducing other factors, most importantly driver skill.
Well if one beats the other there, that might shut them up even though there may still be a chance that the victor won't be the one with the better handling car in reality. Hey, thats good enough for me. In summary, would you be able to describe how Auto X works? I know there are a bunch of cones set up, to mimic maybe a track and see what car can set a better lap time? Am I right? Thanks.
have someone knowledgable drive both of them, give an opinon.
where are you in ny
That wouldn't be such a bad idea, but these hard headed guys won't stop there. They need visual proof, and the Auto X idea below wasn't too bad, but I really have no clue how that sport works since I notice the FWD Mini MG's rule there, and a place like that might not be the best place for these cars. I may be mistaken. I live in Brooklyn by the way.
my mustang outhandles all!!!!!!!!
Not my Four Door Sports Car... :p
I'd guess the Maxima would be better for handling than the BMW, probably because the 3 series isn't exactly performance oriented, more for a low budget luxury car.
Hehe, yea right. My Beamer buddy should see this.
still, if the stock maxima's skid pad was close to the 3 series then with the listen suspension mods skid pad would probably be in favor of the maxima, however this is assumeing the traction loss was due strictly to the cars inability to either accelerate more or to properly distribute force over all 4 tires to give optimal traction...if the skid pad's limiting factor was the tires suspension will some where in the jack squat to the hill-o-beans area if the tires where not upgraded to a stickier compound.
but actual handleing aspects in real world driving have more to do then just what lateral G's a car can pull. responsiveness to driver input, feed back, and rebound play major roles as well. a car that can pull over 1 lateral G on the skid pad may have a hughe delay to driver input and may have little feed back or the suspension may not rebound to set up for another curve (in an S curve situation) or for more lateral acceleration.
heed drftk1d advise if you want a true answear.
In stock form, yes the skid pad is fairly close with the 330i at 88g, and the Maxima trailing not too fair behind at somewhere around 86g even with it's cool rear minivan suspension they started putting on in 95'. I've been driven in both cars under extreme conditions. Basically, the BMW fish tails, and the Maxima understeers. Thats all I could tell from the passenger seat. Both cars take speeds at fairly the same speeds, but seems the BMW driver is a bit more dedicated and experienced. I know one thing though, the suspension set up and technology the BMW boasts is lightyears ahead of the Maxima. Hopefully soon enough I can get to test drive both, but Im sure they won't take my word for it because each is sticking to the idea of one being better than the other, until they can physically see one getting outhandled by the other. :screwy: Yes, the easiest way would be for someone who knows there stuff to test drive both, but that really won't be happening. Maybe Auto X is the only available option for these two :dunno:
Go to an auto-x challenge, but there you're introducing other factors, most importantly driver skill.
Well if one beats the other there, that might shut them up even though there may still be a chance that the victor won't be the one with the better handling car in reality. Hey, thats good enough for me. In summary, would you be able to describe how Auto X works? I know there are a bunch of cones set up, to mimic maybe a track and see what car can set a better lap time? Am I right? Thanks.
TheStang00
10-17-2005, 11:22 PM
Not my Four Door Sports Car... :p
heh... sarcasm on my part...
heh... sarcasm on my part...
4DSC
10-17-2005, 11:32 PM
heh... sarcasm on my part...
Oh, thanks for the compliment then. ;)
Oh, thanks for the compliment then. ;)
street_racer_00
10-18-2005, 12:05 AM
How are you guys planning to guage who's car handles better? Our max's are at a disadvantage being FWD and all...I have no idea how a max with a built suspension handles, but when I drove my brother-in-law's E46 3 series, it handled aeons better than my max.
BP2K2Max
10-18-2005, 12:53 AM
the stock 4th gen maxima is said to slalom at the same speeds as a 540i from the same years. it's not impossible that with almost $1000 in suspension mods that it would handle better than the bimmer. it could still come down to who's the better driver and who can pick the best lines through curves.
TheStang00
10-18-2005, 12:54 AM
but wouldnt a 3 series handle better than a 540
BP2K2Max
10-18-2005, 12:58 AM
what i'm saying is that just cuz it's a bmw don't think it's gonna automatically be the fastest or best handling. stock vs stock i'd give it to the bmw, but with mods it's a different game.
4DSC
10-18-2005, 11:39 PM
How are you guys planning to guage who's car handles better? Our max's are at a disadvantage being FWD and all...I have no idea how a max with a built suspension handles, but when I drove my brother-in-law's E46 3 series, it handled aeons better than my max.
Yeah, but these cars are kinda in the same class. Or in other words the 330i ain't no super car, and the Maxima ain't no Civic. I use to also think that FWD cars are left at a disadvantage, but Im starting to understand more and more that with production cars, it mostly depands on the car and not the drivetrain. We are basically looking for real life results, not extreme physics testing. Of course that wouldn't hurt... :)
Edit: If you noticed, in auto X, these corny little FWD Mini's show true sports cars about a thing or 2 when it comes to handeling.
Yeah, but these cars are kinda in the same class. Or in other words the 330i ain't no super car, and the Maxima ain't no Civic. I use to also think that FWD cars are left at a disadvantage, but Im starting to understand more and more that with production cars, it mostly depands on the car and not the drivetrain. We are basically looking for real life results, not extreme physics testing. Of course that wouldn't hurt... :)
Edit: If you noticed, in auto X, these corny little FWD Mini's show true sports cars about a thing or 2 when it comes to handeling.
drftk1d
10-19-2005, 02:26 AM
how about you have me drive both of them
i'll gladly give my opinion
i'll gladly give my opinion
4DSC
10-22-2005, 06:41 AM
Heh, nice try ;)
CassiesMan
10-23-2005, 09:27 PM
Biased but....3 series.
As has been stated, the 3 series is a touch bit sportier than the Maxima. I'd also put my money handling qise, and speed wise, on the Bimmer (Bimmer has four wheels, Beamer has two). But thats just my two hundreths of a dollar.
As has been stated, the 3 series is a touch bit sportier than the Maxima. I'd also put my money handling qise, and speed wise, on the Bimmer (Bimmer has four wheels, Beamer has two). But thats just my two hundreths of a dollar.
RACER D12
10-23-2005, 10:29 PM
I think it would be close but I think the bimmer might win just because it has better weight distribution being RWD. Does the Max have fully independent suspension?
BP2K2Max
10-23-2005, 11:42 PM
I think it would be close but I think the bimmer might win just because it has better weight distribution being RWD. Does the Max have fully independent suspension?
unfortunately no, multi link rear. up to 93 has full independent and so does 04+. the rest of us all got shafted.
unfortunately no, multi link rear. up to 93 has full independent and so does 04+. the rest of us all got shafted.
street_racer_00
10-24-2005, 02:15 AM
Multilink rear suspension=teh ghey
flatlander757
10-24-2005, 02:53 PM
I guess I was wrong in assumining the 3 series to be the economy cars... I stand corrected. :smile:
4DSC
10-27-2005, 01:10 AM
Oh well, I'll keep you guys posted on what happens, if anything does. Thanks for all the feedback. ;)
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