Here is a belief

Hello how is everyone doing? If you were to read the Bible you'd understand that unlike many other "religions" it doesn't state that the way to get to heaven is by doing good things.Ephesians 2:8-9 says " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast"
It also says that "all of our righteousnesses are as filthy rags" And that "There are none good, no not one" "There is only one good and that is God" The reason is because of our sin we cannot be considered as "Good" when I say good I mean good enough to enter heaven without know Jesus as our savior. The Bible says in Romans 3:23 that "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." A before and after picture of what sin does can be seen if you look at Adam and Eve. Before they had disobeyed God, they where walking with him in the garden. God said not to eat from the fruit of the forbidden tree lest they would surely die. Now when Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate from the tree, they didn't die physically at that exact moment, but they did die. They died spiritually instantly. They were also cast out of the garden. But you may ask, what is sin? a perfect way to figure out what sin is, is to look at the 10 commandments, the Law that God has givin us. By looking at this law we realize that we have sinned and do fall short of the glory of God. The Bible says "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith." The law shows us our impurities compared to God. God has never sinned and He is the light and in Him is no darkness. Some of the commandments are as follows. " Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour" In other words, Dont lie. Have you ever told a lie? " Thou shalt not steal" Ever stolen anything ?(Worth doesn't matter) " Thou shalt not commit adultery" Jesus said "But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." So looking lustfully at a woman is adultery. Ever done that? "Thou shalt not kill" 1 John 3:15 says "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." Hatred is considered murder. You ever hated someone?
Romans 6:23 says " For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." When it speaks of death in this sense it is talking of eternal suffering in hell, which has been described as a lake of fire. Good news, the gift of God is eternal life through jesus Christ our Lord. God Loves us and doesn't want us to go to hell. Romans 5:8 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." He loves us so much that he sent His only Son to die on the cross for us. John 3:16 " For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." I love that word whosoever in that verse. That means EVERYONE !!
His son is Jesus Christ. Jesus unlike us, never committed or even thought of committing a sin. He is completely innocent, yet he died for us. He is the Lamb of God and the only acceptable sacrifice for our sins. Imagine if you commited a crime and you were sitting in the court room and the Judge set the fine at $2,000,000 or life in prison. Your sitting in the court room knowing that there is NOTHING you can do to free your self from going to jail. You can't pay the fine and you know for a fact where you are headed. Yet someone you don't even know steps up and pays the fine or takes your punishment for you. Would you be grateful? That is what Jesus did. We are the ones who have sinned against an Holy and upright God. Jesus never did anything wrong, yet because of His love for us he died for our sins. He took our place on the cross. He was crucified for our iniquities, but he rose again and proved that He is who he says he is and he is the Son of God. Jesus is God in the flesh. John 1:1,14 says " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.""And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
The Bible says "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Believing is more than just saying you believe. If you truly believe in the Lord Jesus you will repent and turn away from your sins. Matthew 3:17 says " From that time on Jesus began to preach, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near." We are to have "repentance toward God and Faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ" repentance is more than just saying your sorry for your sin. It means to turn away from your sin and serve the Lord rather than serving sin. Faith is putting your trust in Jesus as your Lord and savior. If your on a plane, your not gonna jump out of the plane unless you have faith in the parachute. Much like someone isn't gonna let go of there sinfulness unless they truly love and have faith in Jesus Christ. " Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him." Now when we place our faith In Jesus Christ and turn away from the sinfulness of this world and our past life and ask for forgiveness of sins, we become Born again. This is something we must do. Jesus Christ said " Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." When we are born again we become a new creature 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." When we are that new creature we are dead to sin and we are born spiritually. Hence the term born again. Until we come to know the Lord Jesus Christ or until we are living in Christ, we are spiritually dead. When we are born again we come alive spiritually and are living in Christ, and Christ is living in us. Romans 6:5-6 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin."
Once born again and turned away from sin, we are to obey God. Romans 6:8 "Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:"
Romans 6:13 "Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God." We can't serve sin and God. we must turn from our sinful desires and serve the Lord. "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?"

God loves us all and made a way for us to avoid going to Hell. Because of our sin and transgression of the law, we don't deserve the chance to go to heaven. But because of God's grace and Love for us, He provided a way. I am thankful that we have a loving God that cares where we go. Don't stall to call upon the Lord. 2 Corinthians 6:2 "For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation." Don't be self righteous, look at the law. Noone is "good" enough to go to heaven without Jesus as their Lord and savior, you only have to sin one time to be a sinner and if you have sinned one time your guilty of commiting all sin. James 2:10 says " For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." The reason is because all sin is a disobediance against a Holy God and all sin is equal. Murder isn't worse than lying. Sin is Sin.

I Hope and wsh the best for whoever reads this and I pray that it touches your hearts like God has touched mine. I hope that you place your trust and Faith in Jesus. PM me if you have any qustions .

For those of you who claim to be christians yet think you can live a life of sin. There are verses that say that isn't true. 1 John 1:6 says "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:" 1 john 1:7 says "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." Notice we are to walk in the light as He(God) is in the light. Jesus even said that "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them." If we profess to be Christains we are basically saying we are that good tree. Ask your self what type of tree you are and what type of fruit you bear. Remember our life is a witness and colossians 3:1-17 says "If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him."

Now am I saying that christains don't sin? No, but I am saying that if we are truly living in Christ and Love God, that we don't want to and try not to. If we do we feel conviction about it and want to confess our sin and repent of it. The reason being because we have sinned against the very God that has shown us the greatest love that can be shown by the sacrifice he made on the cross. We love Him so we don't want to disobey Him.

This isn't some forum to preach about your religion. It's about having intelligent discussions concerning beliefs and philosophies.

A post like yours is only going to start a flame war.

It may start a discussion on Christian beliefs vs. other beliefs or a discussion just on religious and philosophical beliefs in general. He posted his beliefs so let's see how it develops.

what are you trying to prove? thats the same bs i used to hear in church. its nothing new. this isnt a forum to crap people already know it is for debating and discussing things. not converting people to christianity. you must be desperate cause that is a looooooooong post.

I wouldn't dream of reading that post.

It did seem like a very PRO christianity post just based on the first sentence. I could feel the sale already being pushed. You're like a ruthless used car salesman.

too long, too tired, too concerned with my own beleifs.

Yea it's you're 3rd post and you spew christian propogranda, as stated before this is the same type of stuff spoken in church. I could say so much but what is the point? I'm not christian don't believe in preeching other's religious beliefs to people so I'll just leave it at that. Peace-

aaaa greetings, I think? Well...I guess you've been initiated.

As you can see, it's a big happy family around here. :jump3:

Couple things:

First off, I'll give you an adda boy for the effort, your post may be too long for most readers, but you have clearly put in some time and thought.

To begin future discussions, you may want to be a bit more concise, and try to use more paragraph breaks/spacing. Your post will be much easier to digest.

This part of your post is interesting:

For those of you who claim to be christians yet think you can live a life of sin. There are verses that say that isn't true.

I think you have hit upon an overriding theme of the New Testament that is often, and tragically, over looked. There seems to be an idea among Christians, that if you have been baptized, or have accepted Christs gift of salvation, you will have eternal life. Now, one can easily get this idea from reading John 3:16, possibly the most quoted verse in Scripture:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

As stated in your post, a person is saved by grace through faith, not by works. However, if your faith/belief in Christ is genuine, it will have a life changing impact. There will be some sort of break in a person, where they stop living solely for the things of this world, and they turn from sin. I am of course not saying that this will lead to a state of sinlessness, but there clearly must be a fundamental change. I fear that those who think of God on Christmas and Easter, and put Him back in the closet for the rest of the year, are in a bad spot.

Here's a small representation of the verses which relate this message:

Matthew 7:21-23
Luke 8:13-15
Luke 13:23-28
John 10:5
John 14:15
John 14:21-24
John 15:10
Romans 1:32
Romans 2:5
Romans 6:5-7
Romans 11:22
1 Corinthians 1:24
Galatians 5: 24-25
Hebrews 10:38-39
James 2:15-17
1 John 1:6-7
1 John 3:17-18
1 John 5:18

you read that ? my patience ran out after the first sentence.

Good advice ct. I hope 70Mach joins back in these topics, we can use the extra opinions. I totally agree with the comments on "Christians" who really aren't any different than most non Christians. For many of us this is an even bigger turn off to the faith than a long boring post.

To be honest 2.2, I skimmed most of it, catching the main points.

Ghandi once said, "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

That is a terrible admission, however, it is far too often the truth. I believe that the New Testament teaches that those individuals who misrepresent Christ, are worse off than non-believers.

Hebrews 10: 29-30 "How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people.""

A couple more verses pertinent to the subject at hand:

Matthew 7: 21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

Romans 8:9-14 "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation—but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God."

I don't mean to judge anyone, but I am concerned that many Christians may not be aware of this integral part of Christianity.

One of the biggest hurdles for me is judging myself. I think sometimes I am harder on myself than others are.
This can end up being a huge sticking point for a lot of Christians and especially those who are new to the faith. At times I feel like I'm doing terrible and am not good enough. Then I have to look back to where I've been and look to the promises :

Phil. 2:12, "To work out your own salvation with fear and trembling "

John 6:27-29 says, "labor, or work not for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures unto everlasting life,
which the Son of Man shall give unto you: for Him has the Father sealed.Then the disciples in verse 28 asked,"what is the work of God that they should do," and Christ answered them by saying in verse 29, "this is the work of God,that you believe on Him (Christ) whom He has sent." In verse 40, Christ tells all of His disciples, "This is the will of the
Father that sent me, that everyone which sees the Son, and believes on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Anyway...The thing I am trying to say is that it's work to change. Even with divine help it won't happen overnight for most. The first step is the hardest and after that you just put one foot in front of the other. You trip, fall then get up and start walking again. One trip up or false step won't send you over the edge. :2cents: