Misc questions about paint
neokyo
10-06-2005, 09:51 AM
Hi, this is my first post although I've been browsing these forums alot. I'm a bit new to modelling (only done two and brush enamelled paint over my first cos I was being cheap, hah!) and I've just got a couple of queries about paint.
Firstly, how long does it usually take for a wet coat of tamiya TS spray paint take to fully cure? I've browsed and searched the forum and usually its about 20 minutes for a mist coat though, I'm pretty confused on howl ong it is for a dry coat. Is it 24 hours like a coat of Tamiya primer?
For brush (with a hand brush and not an air brush) painting as well (like painting parts of trees), would acrylic paint or enamel be better? I've heard many people reccomend acrylic over enamel, but I like enamel better due to its consistency and appearance after its dry. Though, usually I just brush paint it out of the bottle (yeah I'm lazy and tight), so I'm wondering if there are any reccomended ideal ratios for thinning enamel paints out, and with what brand and type of thinner would work best?
Also, I'm a bit confused on how to get that uber shiny/mirror finsh that alot of models have (namely the red 240zx that wasp osted a while back with retractable lights :eek: ). After one or two wet coats of paint, would I sand with 2000 grit and then polish --> wax. Or do I paint , clear coat (s)? then sand and polish. I've read the different tutorials and I jsut seem to get confused at people's comments as well. I know this question has been asked alot.
Finally, would several clear coats of Mr Topcoat semi-gloss be sufficient in bringing out a deep, mirror like shine? How long does this take to cure for one wet coat?
I've scanned and searched the pinned tutorials thread but I'm just not so sure about these issues so any replies would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Firstly, how long does it usually take for a wet coat of tamiya TS spray paint take to fully cure? I've browsed and searched the forum and usually its about 20 minutes for a mist coat though, I'm pretty confused on howl ong it is for a dry coat. Is it 24 hours like a coat of Tamiya primer?
For brush (with a hand brush and not an air brush) painting as well (like painting parts of trees), would acrylic paint or enamel be better? I've heard many people reccomend acrylic over enamel, but I like enamel better due to its consistency and appearance after its dry. Though, usually I just brush paint it out of the bottle (yeah I'm lazy and tight), so I'm wondering if there are any reccomended ideal ratios for thinning enamel paints out, and with what brand and type of thinner would work best?
Also, I'm a bit confused on how to get that uber shiny/mirror finsh that alot of models have (namely the red 240zx that wasp osted a while back with retractable lights :eek: ). After one or two wet coats of paint, would I sand with 2000 grit and then polish --> wax. Or do I paint , clear coat (s)? then sand and polish. I've read the different tutorials and I jsut seem to get confused at people's comments as well. I know this question has been asked alot.
Finally, would several clear coats of Mr Topcoat semi-gloss be sufficient in bringing out a deep, mirror like shine? How long does this take to cure for one wet coat?
I've scanned and searched the pinned tutorials thread but I'm just not so sure about these issues so any replies would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
freakray
10-06-2005, 10:19 AM
Welcome.
You mention you've read the posted FAQ's and Tutorials, yet your questions are already well covered there, I suggest you go back and read the FAQ's and Tutorials again.
You mention you've read the posted FAQ's and Tutorials, yet your questions are already well covered there, I suggest you go back and read the FAQ's and Tutorials again.
Hawk312
10-06-2005, 10:22 AM
Welcome neokyo!!
Please be sure to check the FAQ for some good reading. :) See my opinions to your questions below:
Firstly, how long does it usually take for a wet coat of tamiya TS spray paint take to fully cure? I've browsed and searched the forum and usually its about 20 minutes for a mist coat though, I'm pretty confused on howl ong it is for a dry coat.
Fully cure? This depends on the thickness of the coat and environmental conditions. Usually though, the only reason you are waiting for paint to fully cure is to wetsand and final polish, or in the case of Tamiya, waiting to apply clear after color coats. Why are you waiting for it to fully cure? It would probably be dry enough to handle after a few hours, and fully cured after a week to 3 weeks, depending on conditions.
Though, usually I just brush paint it out of the bottle (yeah I'm lazy and tight), so I'm wondering if there are any reccomended ideal ratios for thinning enamel paints out, and with what brand and type of thinner would work best?
Personally, I never thin when brush painting. However, I very rarely brush paint significant sized areas. I spray almost everything, and use brush paints for detailing.
Also, I'm a bit confused on how to get that uber shiny/mirror finsh that alot of models have
You have opened a can of worms! You are probably confused because many great builders here have differing opinions. P-man is known to take a single can of Tamiya color spray, apply 2 thin coats and a wet coat (thats only 3 coats!) of color, and "rub out" the finish with compound to a mirror finish. Take a look at the gallery and see the shine he gets! It amazes me! That is the minimalist approach.
On the other hand, I usually spray about 5-6 coats of color, allow to dry for atleast 24 hours, then wetsand. I follow that with 5-6 coats of clear. I let this dry atleast a week, and then wetsand with 2000 grit until perfectly smooth, with no "pits" or "valleys". I then rub out with Tamiya compound. The compound is where you really get the shine. Rub until you think your arm will fall off! Then take a break and rub some more. The more you rub, the more shine you get. Do this until you see no fine scratches. For more detail, check the procedure in the FAQ.
Hope you have fun here!
Please be sure to check the FAQ for some good reading. :) See my opinions to your questions below:
Firstly, how long does it usually take for a wet coat of tamiya TS spray paint take to fully cure? I've browsed and searched the forum and usually its about 20 minutes for a mist coat though, I'm pretty confused on howl ong it is for a dry coat.
Fully cure? This depends on the thickness of the coat and environmental conditions. Usually though, the only reason you are waiting for paint to fully cure is to wetsand and final polish, or in the case of Tamiya, waiting to apply clear after color coats. Why are you waiting for it to fully cure? It would probably be dry enough to handle after a few hours, and fully cured after a week to 3 weeks, depending on conditions.
Though, usually I just brush paint it out of the bottle (yeah I'm lazy and tight), so I'm wondering if there are any reccomended ideal ratios for thinning enamel paints out, and with what brand and type of thinner would work best?
Personally, I never thin when brush painting. However, I very rarely brush paint significant sized areas. I spray almost everything, and use brush paints for detailing.
Also, I'm a bit confused on how to get that uber shiny/mirror finsh that alot of models have
You have opened a can of worms! You are probably confused because many great builders here have differing opinions. P-man is known to take a single can of Tamiya color spray, apply 2 thin coats and a wet coat (thats only 3 coats!) of color, and "rub out" the finish with compound to a mirror finish. Take a look at the gallery and see the shine he gets! It amazes me! That is the minimalist approach.
On the other hand, I usually spray about 5-6 coats of color, allow to dry for atleast 24 hours, then wetsand. I follow that with 5-6 coats of clear. I let this dry atleast a week, and then wetsand with 2000 grit until perfectly smooth, with no "pits" or "valleys". I then rub out with Tamiya compound. The compound is where you really get the shine. Rub until you think your arm will fall off! Then take a break and rub some more. The more you rub, the more shine you get. Do this until you see no fine scratches. For more detail, check the procedure in the FAQ.
Hope you have fun here!
Vric
10-06-2005, 10:23 AM
You Really should take a look at ScaleWiki.com (http://www.scalewiki.com)
Everything you want to know about Paint (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Everything_you_want_to_know_about_ Paint)
What is the difference between the various paint types? (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=What_is_the_difference_between_the _various_paint_types%3F)
Tamiya Paint Troubleshooting (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tamiya_Paint_Troubleshooting)
Polishing A Body (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polishing_A_Body)
What kind of supplies do I need to get started? (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=What_kind_of_supplies_do_I_need_to _get_started%3F#Paint_work)
Preparing a body for primming and painting (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Preparing_a_body_for_primming_and_ painting)
Acrylic Paint (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Acrylic_Paint)
Enamel Paint (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Enamel_Paint)
Lacquer Paint (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Lacquer_Paint)
Everything you want to know about Paint (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Everything_you_want_to_know_about_ Paint)
What is the difference between the various paint types? (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=What_is_the_difference_between_the _various_paint_types%3F)
Tamiya Paint Troubleshooting (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tamiya_Paint_Troubleshooting)
Polishing A Body (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Polishing_A_Body)
What kind of supplies do I need to get started? (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=What_kind_of_supplies_do_I_need_to _get_started%3F#Paint_work)
Preparing a body for primming and painting (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Preparing_a_body_for_primming_and_ painting)
Acrylic Paint (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Acrylic_Paint)
Enamel Paint (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Enamel_Paint)
Lacquer Paint (http://www.scalewiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Lacquer_Paint)
Gilles61
10-06-2005, 10:24 AM
hi look this site
http://assoc.wanadoo.fr/cascadeurs-lesfermax/
http://assoc.wanadoo.fr/cascadeurs-lesfermax/
Vric
10-06-2005, 10:28 AM
hi look this site
http://assoc.wanadoo.fr/cascadeurs-lesfermax/
What the hell does it have to do with his question ? It's not even modelling related.
http://assoc.wanadoo.fr/cascadeurs-lesfermax/
What the hell does it have to do with his question ? It's not even modelling related.
neokyo
10-06-2005, 10:47 AM
Ok thanks, that covers my questions.
Though, the different techniques of polishing is crazy! Hawk, do you do 4-5 wet coats within a few hours of each other and then let it dry for 24 hours before wet sanding?
Though, the different techniques of polishing is crazy! Hawk, do you do 4-5 wet coats within a few hours of each other and then let it dry for 24 hours before wet sanding?
freakray
10-06-2005, 10:59 AM
What the hell does it have to do with his question ? It's not even modelling related.
Nothing, but it's a quick way to get yourself banned.
Spam = :nono:
Nothing, but it's a quick way to get yourself banned.
Spam = :nono:
Hawk312
10-06-2005, 04:14 PM
Ok thanks, that covers my questions.
Though, the different techniques of polishing is crazy! Hawk, do you do 4-5 wet coats within a few hours of each other and then let it dry for 24 hours before wet sanding?
Yeah, everyone has develop their own technique to a degree. I think I found a system that is consistent and produces great results for me. Other builders will say the same about their technique which may be completely different. :grinyes: The underlying principles are the same though. You want to lay down a "flat" as possible finish, and polish using successively finer abrasives.
I usually spray 2 mist coats to begin with, within 10 minutes of each other. These are very light mist coats, and are nowhere near complete coverage. I wait about 15 minutes and apply the 3rd and 4th coats, with 15 minutes in between, these are just a bit heavier than the first two, and I heat the can under warm (not hot) water. I wait another 15 minutes and apply the final coat(s), and usually try to make this one pretty heavy. I wait 24 hours to wetsand. I then follow the same technique with the clear coat, only waiting atleast a week before wetsanding. The longer you can wait, the better.
Though, the different techniques of polishing is crazy! Hawk, do you do 4-5 wet coats within a few hours of each other and then let it dry for 24 hours before wet sanding?
Yeah, everyone has develop their own technique to a degree. I think I found a system that is consistent and produces great results for me. Other builders will say the same about their technique which may be completely different. :grinyes: The underlying principles are the same though. You want to lay down a "flat" as possible finish, and polish using successively finer abrasives.
I usually spray 2 mist coats to begin with, within 10 minutes of each other. These are very light mist coats, and are nowhere near complete coverage. I wait about 15 minutes and apply the 3rd and 4th coats, with 15 minutes in between, these are just a bit heavier than the first two, and I heat the can under warm (not hot) water. I wait another 15 minutes and apply the final coat(s), and usually try to make this one pretty heavy. I wait 24 hours to wetsand. I then follow the same technique with the clear coat, only waiting atleast a week before wetsanding. The longer you can wait, the better.
g00eY
10-06-2005, 06:54 PM
welcome to AF!
as for painting, i don't use Tamiya paints(i use Duplicolor and Plastikote automotive paints for spraying, Testors for brushing), but generally it should be about the same. all i have to say is the longer you wait between coats, the better. you can get primer one day, mist and wet done the next, and clear the next, and it should work fine. But your best bet is to wait longer just in case.
between enamels and acrylics, it's all preferance. i like acrylics for their quick drying times and ease of clean-up, but it depends on the job. when painting stuff like window trim and rubbers by hand i like to use acrylics because they come off with just a wet cloth before it's dry. enamels are good cuz they dry slowly and in my experience tend to be thicker, so they stay where you put it.
for clear coats you need to spray very even and very smooth coats for it to shine, or else you will need to sand with high grit sandpaper, compound, and polish it to a great shine. clear coat is just clear paint.
hope this helps!
as for painting, i don't use Tamiya paints(i use Duplicolor and Plastikote automotive paints for spraying, Testors for brushing), but generally it should be about the same. all i have to say is the longer you wait between coats, the better. you can get primer one day, mist and wet done the next, and clear the next, and it should work fine. But your best bet is to wait longer just in case.
between enamels and acrylics, it's all preferance. i like acrylics for their quick drying times and ease of clean-up, but it depends on the job. when painting stuff like window trim and rubbers by hand i like to use acrylics because they come off with just a wet cloth before it's dry. enamels are good cuz they dry slowly and in my experience tend to be thicker, so they stay where you put it.
for clear coats you need to spray very even and very smooth coats for it to shine, or else you will need to sand with high grit sandpaper, compound, and polish it to a great shine. clear coat is just clear paint.
hope this helps!
Vric
10-06-2005, 07:02 PM
I bet you never used Tamiya paint g00eY .......
Hawk312
10-06-2005, 07:06 PM
That reminds me...
My experience with Tamiya....
All bets are off with the above technique and using Tamiya clear. I have let the color coats cure for several days before applying Tamiya clear, and the clear still burned through the color at the edges. Supposedly, you are supposed to wait up to a month before using Tamiya clear over Tamiya color because of the different cure rates.
My experience with Tamiya....
All bets are off with the above technique and using Tamiya clear. I have let the color coats cure for several days before applying Tamiya clear, and the clear still burned through the color at the edges. Supposedly, you are supposed to wait up to a month before using Tamiya clear over Tamiya color because of the different cure rates.
Jaymes
10-06-2005, 07:13 PM
^ I heard that you spray tamiya clear 10-15 min after spraying the color coat :confused:
Vric
10-06-2005, 08:50 PM
Tamiya Clear, you paint it in the first 6-8 hours or you wait 3 weeks.
g00eY
10-06-2005, 09:18 PM
I bet you never used Tamiya paint g00eY .......
well, you would lose. hahaha. i've used Tamiya brush paints, just not spray paints. haha. anyways, i get good results using the above method with Duplicolor and Plastikote. so if you're gonna use Tamiya only, then don't listen to me.
well, you would lose. hahaha. i've used Tamiya brush paints, just not spray paints. haha. anyways, i get good results using the above method with Duplicolor and Plastikote. so if you're gonna use Tamiya only, then don't listen to me.
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