I'm done with AWD!

Okay, here's my story, I got smoked by my friend's bone stock eclipse last night. (I'm running 13.8's... give or take) He's running 15 lbs on an all stock rebuilt motor, stock exhaust, stock everything(except MBC of course). We went from a second gear roll and he owned me by at least 4 cars. As you can see from my mod list, I should have owned his ass. My brother's FWD owns me, and so do most of the other FWD's I run around with. I get them all from a light... but i hate launching the car unless I'm at the track 'cause I like my tranny. So guys, this is it, I'm officially getting sick of AWD and I'm probably going to convert to FWD. I love the look of the car too much to sell it and get a FWD, so I'm converting. I love torque steer anyway. I can't remember the last night I actually went from a light. Everything's a roll, and I'm officialy sick of getting beat. I have to do twice as many mods just so my drivetrain can eat it! I'm out.

Thanks guys for listening to me vent.

shouldn't you be running alot better than 13.8's with those mods? i think someone ran a 13.7 on the t-25 w/awd, can't remember who though. but there must be something wrong in your setup that's not running right.

Yeah i did!!!! ;)

Kevin also did and im sure there is others on here that have.

Yeah i did!!!! ;)

Kevin also did and im sure there is others on here that have.

Yeah, that's another thing. I can't figure out why I'm getting shitty times. I know I should probably be running low 13's... I'm thinking I definetly need an AFC to tune those injectors, I know I'm getting robbed there. But even on the 450's, without the walbro, the injen pipe, or the 2g mas, I was only pulling 14.1's. I launch usually at 6 grand, with 1.8 60', and end up with 92-96 mph. My compression's not too bad, about 140-155 across the board. I don't have any known boost leaks, or anything like that. Altogether, I'm just getting fed up cause I know i should be running better, period. To me, It just feels like the AWD is lagging me bad, so that's why I'm on the verge of just converting. My brother just got a front wheel and I love that torque steer. Oh and he just pulled a 13.7 at 109 at the track! With less mods than me, and spinning nearly the whole way through third with a slowboy limited slip. That just pisses me off. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I would get DSMlink that might just get you down there if you are running that thing untuned. You got more balls than i do!

I would get DSMlink that might just get you down there if you are running that thing untuned. You got more balls than i do!
Yeah dude, get that bitch tuned. If you practice shifting and get a good tune, I bet you could fuck any of those cars. No offense, but why are you racing at a roll? Any of the racing here is done from a light or a flagger.

I'd be running low 12s in that if it had something to tune with. FWD is typically a half second slower than AWD going from a stop, which to me is unacceptable. Also remember that even from a roll, while AWDs are a little heavier and have a little more drivetrain loss, they are also geared lower. Two different setups. I don't know what there is to love about torque steer. I personally love forward acceleration, not a steering wheel that likes to turn on its own. :)

I'd be running low 12s in that if it had something to tune with. FWD is typically a half second slower than AWD going from a stop, which to me is unacceptable. Also remember that even from a roll, while AWDs are a little heavier and have a little more drivetrain loss, they are also geared lower. Two different setups. I don't know what there is to love about torque steer. I personally love forward acceleration, not a steering wheel that likes to turn on its own. :)

Yeah in a way I agree with you there, but there's something about that torque steer hahah i love it. But anyway... I dug up a time slip from before I had the pump, injectors, or 2g mas. I figure you guys can diagnose these slips better than I can... even these times weren't good @ 15-16 psi and my setup.

R/T ... .422
60' ... 1.868
330 ... 5.678
1/8 ... 8.896
MPH ... 76.85
1000 ... 11.729
1/4 ... 14.191
MPH ... 92.77

Maybe the "conversion" idea was me looking for an easy way out of being slow. I do wanna get these issues fixed though. And in reply to one of the posts above, usually where we race it's watched pretty closely by cops every night. So if you're smart, you take it up on the highway (where they usually aren't), therefore, I'm usually always going from a roll, unless I push my luck getting pulled over down at the lights. I can't even remember the last time I ever utilized the AWD.

Where you running on pro tree? If not you red lighted :) any way your 60ft is pretty good looks like you just fall on your face after that. I'm traping better 1/8 mph than you are. If you had it tunned i would bet money on it running ALOT
better

The half assed combination of 2g MAS and 550 injectors is worse than no "tuning," since it's not even stock anymore. The maf compensation for the 2g MAS is nonlinear, while the injector compensation is. Ends up being an odd situation... The good new though is that when you do tune it with the AFC, you are starting at closer to zero than you would be with a 1g MAS, so timing doesn't get completely banjaxed. Kind of like using a chip with injector compensation, for the same reason.

TMO logger is freeware now and cables can be built or bought online. Used AFCs are cheap. If you have an eprom ECU, DSMlink isn't too expensive. If you dn't have an eprom ecu but still want the best reasonable setup, get the DSMlink. Either way, anything is better that not being able to tune at all..

dsmlink on ebay Ebay $450-499 ligit copies.
Safc2 on ebay $259 shipped

I was at dinner last night with some friends and forgot all about the DSMlink I was going to bid on. They had a ligit copy that had a starting bid of $399, and sold for $425 last night!!

I knew from the start with the 550's and 2g mas that it wasn't going to be that great, but I knew it'd get me by 'til I could come across an SAFC2. My real question though is that timeslip, before any of these air/fuel mods were introduced. That's still shitty compared to you guys doing 13's on the t-25. Any ideas, based on that slip?

Oh and in reply to the post above... I ran a pro-tree @ the Pittsburgh Raceway in Pittsburgh.

You got air/fuel metering problems. With 550cc injectors and no compensation, you're running rich. Running lean = power (not too lean, heh) Kevin is right, with your mods and something to tune with, you'd be low 12's. You probably have a major boost leak as well. You might hold steady boost, but you're turbo is overworking to keep it there.

At the very minimum you're running about 20% to much fuel, then even that isn't tuned correctly. Tuning makes night/day difference. Honestly, you should lay off the car before some damage is done. Tuning is the key!

You got air/fuel metering problems. With 550cc injectors and no compensation, you're running rich. Running lean = power (not too lean, heh) Kevin is right, with your mods and something to tune with, you'd be low 12's. You probably have a major boost leak as well. You might hold steady boost, but you're turbo is overworking to keep it there.

At the very minimum you're running about 20% to much fuel, then even that isn't tuned correctly. Tuning makes night/day difference. Honestly, you should lay off the car before some damage is done. Tuning is the key!

Okay, maybe I've been under the wrong impression for a while now, but I didn't think it ever hurt anything to run too rich, other than obvious things like fouled plugs, carbon build-up, black smoke, etc. I thought lean was the key to killing the motor. You said about damage? Like what? I've been running it this way for almost two months, and I'd hate to think I was killing it all along...

I wish i could find the DSMLINK cheaper than this for my eprom ECU. But more than likely this winter i will be getting it put in.

http://www.dsmlink.com/ordering.html

TOO lean kills a motor, more lean than rich makes power, more rich than lean you start losing power.

Hey guys, I slipped into my college account and borrowed $200 bucks. I now officially own an SAFC2! But anyway, I bought it used without installation instructions, so if anyone has a vfaq on that, it would be great.

Also, Is there any way to learn to tune this on my own? I've talked to a few people who say that I don't have a choice but to take it to slowboy 'cause I won't be able to tune it properly? Is this true? I do have access to a logger if that changes anything. One last question... Is the knock sensor that comes on the SAFC2 reliable?

You can tune it on your own with a logger. THere was a good write up by Kyle T over at www.racingknowledge.org in the DSM sction. The AFCs knock feature does not work with a DSM knock sensor. You have a 1g so, the pocketlogger or TMO logger etc will read the stock knock sensor, and that is what I would do. I used the TMO logger on the 91 and liked it. Good display (way better than usinga palm device, and you can get an acceptable laptop for less than 50 bucks), and easy to use. The advantage of taking it to slowboy is that they can use thier WBO2 sensor to get AFR right on. Still no good way to unfuck the half assed stock 1g high load timing map.

The injectors put you about 18% too rich, but remember also that the 2G mas reads about 20% lower at the same airflow ;) Almost cancels each other out. But like I said above, it is not a linear adjutsment for the 2g MAS. DSMlink has preprogrammed compensation for a 2g MAS FYI.

Running lean can cause damage, but makes more power. Running rich reduces power but can add some safety margin. Running VERY rich can damage the motor if the excess fuel washes the oil off the cylinder wall (bore wash).

Stop trying to convince him that awd is better. (Lets trade straight up right now my fwd for ur crappy awd :lol: )

You can tune it on your own with a logger. THere was a good write up by Kyle T over at www.racingknowledge.org in the DSM sction. The AFCs knock feature does not work with a DSM knock sensor. You have a 1g so, the pocketlogger or TMO logger etc will read the stock knock sensor, and that is what I would do. I used the TMO logger on the 91 and liked it. Good display (way better than usinga palm device, and you can get an acceptable laptop for less than 50 bucks), and easy to use. The advantage of taking it to slowboy is that they can use thier WBO2 sensor to get AFR right on. Still no good way to unfuck the half assed stock 1g high load timing map.

The injectors put you about 18% too rich, but remember also that the 2G mas reads about 20% lower at the same airflow ;) Almost cancels each other out. But like I said above, it is not a linear adjutsment for the 2g MAS. DSMlink has preprogrammed compensation for a 2g MAS FYI.

Running lean can cause damage, but makes more power. Running rich reduces power but can add some safety margin. Running VERY rich can damage the motor if the excess fuel washes the oil off the cylinder wall (bore wash).

Would I actually be better off to put the 1g mas back on then? Also, I noticed that the write up on how to use the AFC says "Don't even begin to do anything unless you have an FPR for the Walbro 255." Which I don't... So does that mean I have to spend more money now?

you can do anything you want. It's highly recomended you do infact buy an Aermotive or other reliable FPR. Idle, cruse, suffers a bit without one.

Are you going to go with a bigger turbo down the line? If not then a 190 would have been fine and you dont need a fpr for it.