H22 Problem

My friend has a turbo'd H22a (removed balancer shaft) and resently he had a big problem with it. He drove the car down the street and everything was fine until the way back. As soon as got about a ¼ of the way down the street, his oil pressure dropped and his car leaned out. He cruised the rest of the way home, and didn't really give it any gas at all. Originally he thought is was rod bearings, but when he drained the oil there were very few metal specs (not really anything). But he also had around 2-2½ quarts of oil in there (if I remember correctly, it should have almost 4). So he pulled the head, removed the oil pan, pistons & rods, block girdle, etc. Nothing seems to have wear on them at all. But there are 2 thing on one of the journals, I believe they are called "Thrust Washers". They were out of place, basically looked like they were ready to fall out. They were also pretty rough, like the crank roughed them up a little.
What the hell are these things, what do they do, and what would cause them to move out of place like that?

Found it: http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1302116

I guess I didn't really find the answers I was looking for after all. What I need to know is if the Thrust Washers being out of place would creat the oil pressure to drop like it did? I mean obviously they shouldn't have been out of place like they were, but is this the cause of the problem or is it something much worse?

i dont think thrust washer would do that. did he put them back right and try start it up ? of course watching oil pressure the oil time

I am no engine expert, and don't claim to be. I've built a couple of engines, but not too good at trouble shooting. The way I understand it is that the job of the thrust washers is to prevent the crank from moving laterally. I would imagine that if they were out of place or failed then the crank could possibly damage the oil pump gear. But I am not positive only speculating.

yeah the trust washers keep it from moving laterally but unless they fell out, i dont think the crank would move enough to damage the oil pump. but im no engine builder. you say they were out of place, what do you mean by out of place ? like not even where they are suppose to be ?

He's still rebuilding the engine, hasn't even taken out the crank yet (though he turned it and it looks fine). He's also going to replace the oil pump just in case (think it's still the one he got with the engine). But when I say it's out of place, I mean when he took the bottom stuff off, they were almost completely out. The one that was bairly in was just in the notch of the block by it's tip (basically almost a 178 degree turn), and the other was about a ¼ of the way in. He didn't know what the hell they even were (he's never built a engine before, obviously never have I). But I went over there tonight to tell him what they were and where they go, he slid them both in and out with no problem at all :uhoh: Maybe I'm wrong but I'd assume something like that is supposed to be hard to get out with the crank in there, and should stay in there until you really try hard to get them out.

I found a couple threads over at Honda Tech maybe they can help a little.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1232125
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1217310
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=260947

It sounds like one of the main causes of thrust washer failure is the tranny or clutch. Also make sure that when they are installed the groves face the crank and not the block.

Ok I found another thread and this one has lots of answers as to why an engine would drop or displace a thrust bearing and why it would cause oil starvation. Make sure to read the posts by Jeff Evans (boosted hybrid) and the one post in a quote by Earl. Hope this helps I know I learned something by reading it.
http://forums.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=365&highlight=thrust+washer

You are the man. That's above and beyond the call of duty. Thanks a lot for all that.

no problem glad I could help! I gotta try and help the good members out when ever I get the chance.

did you guys find the problem or the cause? I am rather crious about the outcome of this.

Nope, not yet. His lazy ass still hasn't taken it apart completely yet (though I haven't talked to him in 2 days). I'll definently post an update when we find out what the problem is.

a buddy of mine did a h23/vtec motor. His motor wasnt running properly and would hold oil pressure. He finally got another motor and pulled the h23 apart. His thrust washers were completely off the crank.

UPDATE - My friend finally got around to ripping apart the engine. It ended up being the oil pump after all. I'm not sure if the oil pump went and caused the thrust washers to move out and damage it more, or if it was the other way around (or even something else). But luckily there is no damage whatsoever to the crank, or any thing else. He certainly got luck with that one. Now it's time for him to do a rebuild, a balance shaft eliminator kit, and the manual tensioner conversion.

spinning a thrust bearing on the crank will drop the oil pressure significantly........

I didn't read the whole thread, but i know that much.....:grinyes:

Time for a Fluidamper.

i knew i was right

man the balancer shaft is real important to keep that motor from vibrating to much and doing damage like that

I don't know. I did a lot of research on it and the people who have done the eliminator kits all said that it's just to remove vibration from the driver (stop the vibrations from being felt through the steering wheel and such). Maybe they were wrong, I can definently see what you're saying though. But he's planning on seeing how the kit works first and is saving the original parts incase he decides to put them back in.