B16 vs. 350 small block

hey guys. i have a question about an engine comparison. my friend has a honda civic hatchback (90's?), and ive got an '81 camaro. he keeps claiming that my "POS" 350 sbc is turning lower hp than his B16. first, my engine is stroked and bored out to about 360 cubes. ported and polished heads, flat top pistons, aluminum vortec heads, roller rockers, oversized valves, and a 770 cfm holley street avenger carb on an edelbrock performer intake, thrush headers, and exhaust, no smog equipment anymore... on top is a 6 inch tall k&n air filter, due to the 4" cowl induction hood i have, and according to the dyno i am pushing 398 hp. all on street tires, borg-warner super T-10 tranny, and stock rearend. his B16 has ported and polished heads, an "upgraded exhaust" :screwy: some form of tpi (not sure if its stock or not) wider tires, and a stage 1 turbo pushing like 3 lbs of boost. please ppl will you give me an honest opinion on which engine is more powerful?

are you trying to make a point or just venting? this is a waste of bandwidth. :p the answer seems quite clear to me at least.

a little bit of both... im trying to prove to my friend his engine is not all that great, and im pissed a little at him.

who runs 3lbs of boost on a B16?

who runs 3lbs of boost on a B16?

im just going off of what he was telling me when i was typing, i really have no idea how much boost he is running... something tells me, either does he. his dad bought the car, and does everything to it.

Ok the B16 put out 160 or 170hp depending on where its from and what year it is.
A proper exhaust and intake might give you another 5hp if your luckey, and a Turbo kit, done properly pushing say 5lb on stock internals might take it to 200hp.
But unless he's spent some series money on it won't be making any more than that.

In terms of hp per litre he has you beat, you need 25% more power just to match his stock hp numbers.
But hp per litre dosn't really mean shit in terms of performance, it just shows the B16a is a considerably better engineered piece of machinery than your small block.

So while his Civic will probobly surprise you with how fast it could be, if driven properly, and assuming it has suspension and brakes to match the engine, your Camaro will be consideably faster in a straight line, and according to the Dyno is putting out twice as much hp. Making it considerably more powerful.

this is quite obvious you will demolish this guy. hes obviously a ricer who thinks cause its a civic its so damn fast. he dont know how much power old muscle cars have. hes got maybe 200hp and shit for torque. no contest

agreed. Go race him

HP/L means nothing if you lose, so go out there and show this guy what American muscle is all about.

lol, just got back from school... he wanted to race me, i was like nah... trying to get him good and pissed. anyways, we were heading down a county highway(on the way home). 2 lane 2 way. he was tailgaiting me, so i knew he was gonna pull next to me and "race". anyways, he drops back a few car lengths, then steps on it to about 65, im laughing at this point, so i wait till he is right next to me drop it into 2nd and from 45 to 70 by the time he was even with me, we got to my house and the first thing he says to me is holy shit that was the fastest accelleration i have ever seen. lol. he did admit that my car has a hell of alot of tourque after riding with me at lunch. i just find it funny how ignorant this kid really is.

lol, just got back from school... he wanted to race me, i was like nah... trying to get him good and pissed. anyways, we were heading down a county highway(on the way home). 2 lane 2 way. he was tailgaiting me, so i knew he was gonna pull next to me and "race". anyways, he drops back a few car lengths, then steps on it to about 65, im laughing at this point, so i wait till he is right next to me drop it into 2nd and from 45 to 70 by the time he was even with me, we got to my house and the first thing he says to me is holy shit that was the fastest accelleration i have ever seen. lol. he did admit that my car has a hell of alot of tourque after riding with me at lunch. i just find it funny how ignorant this kid really is.

Nice. :cheers:

while a turbo civic hatch with a b16 is a quick car, it is no match for a 400 hp small block. what car is that engine in?

while a turbo civic hatch with a b16 is a quick car, it is no match for a 400 hp small block. what car is that engine in?

ooooh......be careful there. There are more than a few FI hatch's around that will pull on N/A v8's hard. B16 w/ turbo in a hatch is potentially a mid 12 second car if launched and driven correctly. Depending if he has LSD or not, you could be in trouble. Turbo hatch's have potential of being ridiculously fast.

dont get me wrong, i have respect for the tuner crowd... key word "tuner". my "buddy" is a ricer. i have seen many fast turbo sport compacts in the city i live by. i have raced a twin turbo eagle talon, it was decided by about 1 1/2 car lengths in my favor... everything on my car is new, or rebuilt. only car that i have lost to in a light to light race... twin turbo supra. and its a drag car for the most part. i love fast cars of all types, but this honda is just a joke, most that i have run have been, and yes allot were turbo of some sort.

but they only have maybe 220 hp with just a turbo. and no other mods. which is fast but not rediculously fast. although they are very light. but 400hp>220hp.

but they only have maybe 220 hp with just a turbo. and no other mods. which is fast but not rediculously fast. although they are very light. but 400hp>220hp.

Hmmm....you can push more power to the wheels than that w/ a boosted B16. Even w/ stock internals. A turbo hatch would be sick from the roll. Definitely ridiculously fast. For a FWD honda.

yea but with just a turbo stage 1 kit and no other mods and not running so high boost that ur engine blows up.

On of the reasons the B16a is such a fantastic engine is because its so responsive, it will sing and dance at the lightest touch of the thorttle.

One of the reasons its so responsive is because its internals are very light and machined to very high tolerances.

Light weight internals are limited to how much force they can withstand, which limits how much power the B16a can handle on stock internals.
200ish is considered safe and is easily reached with some Cams and ECU mods, or a simple turbo or S/C set up.
Anything above 200 and you start to run the rish of breaking things, engines have been run with 300hp on stock internals, but they didn't last very long.


And of course having 200hp in a Civic hatch is a waste of time unless you have the means to put it to the road.
There are Civics and there are civics, some were designed to handle the power from a 1.3l single carb engine with about 60hp and some were designed to handle a K20 with 220hp. Obviously have a 200hp enigne in a 60hp chassis with no modifications will result in lots of wheel spin, and unstable handling and dangerous burn out machine.


Im guessing your "mates" civic is tending towards the later rather than the former.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Misc/1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/flatlander757/Misc/notfast.jpg

Show those to your friend :smile:

Glad you and your friend sorta solved your differences

and as for the B16 it is a very nicely designed engine, capable of putting good numbers and keeping the car nice and light...but its not a high boost turbo engine unless you change the internals, most Honda engines aren't...

but what it lacks in such capability it makes up in high rpm performance, handling, and like I said before its weighs less cause it doesn't have a 350 in the front, and you get alot closer to 50/50 weight distribution

but what it lacks in such capability it makes up in high rpm performance, handling, and like I said before its weighs less cause it doesn't have a 350 in the front, and you get alot closer to 50/50 weight distribution


The engine dosnt have much effect on the chassis handling, and while the average Civic will weigh less than the average Camaro, the Camaro will have better weight distribrution.
The Civic dosn't have a diff in the back, or a gearbox sitting behind the front axle.
All of its drive line is over or in front of the front wheels.