Turbo rabbit
supervisor1886
09-20-2005, 12:44 AM
Well I am thinking of getting a diesel Rabbit. I am gonna rebuild it and then turbo. Here are the questions.
Are there perfomance products for such engines such as forged pistons, moly rings, solid lifters, cam shafts, roller rockers
How many pounds of boost would be OK to run to make some serious power? I am thinking of getting a used turbo or maybe two from some mercedes car and welding it to the exhaust with aftermarket waste gates and some plumbing. 20 pounds should do
What about the distributor pump? Would I have to switch to another pump designed for turbo cars or the original can adopt to boost plus what about the injectors.
Are the original cv joints and tranny can handle the torque and hp
Also how fast are diesels in 1/4mile time comparing too gas powered ones?
Are there perfomance products for such engines such as forged pistons, moly rings, solid lifters, cam shafts, roller rockers
How many pounds of boost would be OK to run to make some serious power? I am thinking of getting a used turbo or maybe two from some mercedes car and welding it to the exhaust with aftermarket waste gates and some plumbing. 20 pounds should do
What about the distributor pump? Would I have to switch to another pump designed for turbo cars or the original can adopt to boost plus what about the injectors.
Are the original cv joints and tranny can handle the torque and hp
Also how fast are diesels in 1/4mile time comparing too gas powered ones?
zagrot
09-22-2005, 12:10 AM
find a turbo block to begin with, it will have piston-cooling oil spouts and i understand that the head is cast of a different alloy than n/a heads. just get turbo diesel pistons (they have a notch in the skirt for the oil spouts) and run them. i was once curious as to if vw diesel pistons were hyperecutic or forged so i contacted a vw parts dealer and the responded by saying "we never thought about it." all 1.6 diesels use full floating wrist pins, but then again they need them.
there are rings of various materials available, and total seal makes a gappless second ring for the 1.6D, but they are expensive. don't worry about roller rockers because the 1.6 uses tappets and i'm not aware of a performance cam for a vw diesel. engines earlier than '85 use solid lifters and the hydraulic head was introduced in '85. i am not sure if you can put a solid lifter head on a block that came with hydraulic lifters because the bently manual specifies different head gasket clearances for each (not to be confused with the fact that there are three different gaskets for each engine depending on the ammount of piston protrusion). if anyone knows why this is please send me a pm.
i think the stock 1.6 turbo diesel runs 9 psi, but i have heard of diesels holding 60 psi though not for long; tractor pull stuff really.
turbo diesels came in two forms -- the turbo diesel with aneroids on top of the pump for under-boost fuel enrichment and the eco-diesel, which is a turbo engine with the n/a pump. turbo injectors are identical to n/a injectors except that the turbo injectors are tuned to open at a higher pressure.
don't know about the 1/4 mile times, or the power handeling capabilities of the transmission and cv joints but i have heard that five speed transmissions have a weak third gear and i have had fifth gear lose all of it's teeth. you can fit the beefier cv joints from a later model vw on an earlier model's half shaft because the splines are the same. you will have to change the front wheel bearing retaining circlip to the later model's circlip or the outer joint will bind.
you should consider some form of an air charge cooler, and i've heard good things about propane injection on turbo charged diesels, though you may want to approch this carefully, and nitrous does work on diesel engines provided there is extra fuel.
there are rings of various materials available, and total seal makes a gappless second ring for the 1.6D, but they are expensive. don't worry about roller rockers because the 1.6 uses tappets and i'm not aware of a performance cam for a vw diesel. engines earlier than '85 use solid lifters and the hydraulic head was introduced in '85. i am not sure if you can put a solid lifter head on a block that came with hydraulic lifters because the bently manual specifies different head gasket clearances for each (not to be confused with the fact that there are three different gaskets for each engine depending on the ammount of piston protrusion). if anyone knows why this is please send me a pm.
i think the stock 1.6 turbo diesel runs 9 psi, but i have heard of diesels holding 60 psi though not for long; tractor pull stuff really.
turbo diesels came in two forms -- the turbo diesel with aneroids on top of the pump for under-boost fuel enrichment and the eco-diesel, which is a turbo engine with the n/a pump. turbo injectors are identical to n/a injectors except that the turbo injectors are tuned to open at a higher pressure.
don't know about the 1/4 mile times, or the power handeling capabilities of the transmission and cv joints but i have heard that five speed transmissions have a weak third gear and i have had fifth gear lose all of it's teeth. you can fit the beefier cv joints from a later model vw on an earlier model's half shaft because the splines are the same. you will have to change the front wheel bearing retaining circlip to the later model's circlip or the outer joint will bind.
you should consider some form of an air charge cooler, and i've heard good things about propane injection on turbo charged diesels, though you may want to approch this carefully, and nitrous does work on diesel engines provided there is extra fuel.
boschmann
09-22-2005, 08:45 PM
Good information. I think the head gasket differences were for compression ratio reasons. One thing to avoid in the transmission area if you plan on transmitting power is the riveted on ring gears, I can't remember which year that started in.
supervisor1886
09-23-2005, 01:33 PM
gaskets are for compression probably. the info is gold! Thanks a lot.
Also I heard that this 1.6 diesel isnt even a real diesel. They say that uses a block that is made out of gas block as well. I dont not if the have sleeves in that block or what. Thats probalby why the pistons arent hardened.
Iam working on my trans am project for now and getting an 320i old bmw.
Also I heard that this 1.6 diesel isnt even a real diesel. They say that uses a block that is made out of gas block as well. I dont not if the have sleeves in that block or what. Thats probalby why the pistons arent hardened.
Iam working on my trans am project for now and getting an 320i old bmw.
zagrot
10-08-2005, 09:08 AM
i think i may have misstated my question about the head gasket thickness; i was curious as to why the head gasket specifications are different for hydraulic and solid lifter heads. the notch system still has three increments, but the thickness of each each gasket do not correspond (ie. a 2-notch hydraulic-head's gasket is not the same thickness as 2-notch solid-lifter-head's gasket, per the bently manual, '85 and up). i was wondering if it had someting to do with the way hudraulic lifters functioned, though it just occoured to me that the cam profile could be slightly different. any thoughts on that? i don't have access to a hydraulic lifter head, otherwise i'd take a shot at satisfying my curiosity with a dial indicator.
as for the vw diesel not being a real diesel block, i believe that you may be paritally correct. the casting does say 1.6D and not 1.6, there is a place where you could mount a distributor, though there is a vacuume pump there, and i think i read somewhere that the diesel's bore is somewhat smaller than than it's gasoline counterpart, but the stroke is longer than a gasser. however there is no denying the fact that the two blocks are strikingly similar. though the block's lineage is questionable the fuel system and head are most certianly diesel machinery. i've heard the old guys tell horror stories about oldsmobile's early 60's-ish foray into diesel engines, and while i am still a bit sketchey on the fuel delivery system i think it was more or less a modified carberator (i still can not understand how that would have worked at all). it has been said that failed powerplant, aside from seeing transfer trucks belching black smoke, is what generated american's stigma against diesel engines.
to address your last post's concerns i'll say the 1.6d's blocks do not have sleevs, and while the jury is still out on the exact piston construction they have no problem holding up in the long haul, especially since they do not have to deal with detonation as a gasonine engine's pistons might. even though a diesel's combustion might sound like a horribly knocking gasoline engine the piston is actually on or very close to being on the down stroke when compustion is initiated, and that the early vw diesels are of the precombustion chamber type, where combustion is not taking place directly over the crown of the piston. so far i've not seen a diesel piston with pitting that indicates detonation in a gasoline engine.
as for the vw diesel not being a real diesel block, i believe that you may be paritally correct. the casting does say 1.6D and not 1.6, there is a place where you could mount a distributor, though there is a vacuume pump there, and i think i read somewhere that the diesel's bore is somewhat smaller than than it's gasoline counterpart, but the stroke is longer than a gasser. however there is no denying the fact that the two blocks are strikingly similar. though the block's lineage is questionable the fuel system and head are most certianly diesel machinery. i've heard the old guys tell horror stories about oldsmobile's early 60's-ish foray into diesel engines, and while i am still a bit sketchey on the fuel delivery system i think it was more or less a modified carberator (i still can not understand how that would have worked at all). it has been said that failed powerplant, aside from seeing transfer trucks belching black smoke, is what generated american's stigma against diesel engines.
to address your last post's concerns i'll say the 1.6d's blocks do not have sleevs, and while the jury is still out on the exact piston construction they have no problem holding up in the long haul, especially since they do not have to deal with detonation as a gasonine engine's pistons might. even though a diesel's combustion might sound like a horribly knocking gasoline engine the piston is actually on or very close to being on the down stroke when compustion is initiated, and that the early vw diesels are of the precombustion chamber type, where combustion is not taking place directly over the crown of the piston. so far i've not seen a diesel piston with pitting that indicates detonation in a gasoline engine.
supervisor1886
10-12-2005, 07:41 PM
Do you guys think that diesel are actually faster than gas engines since they have lotsa torque? But lack hp
in terms of 1/4 mile?
Also have you heard of any high perfomance fuel for diesel engines? Maybe some kerosine mix?
in terms of 1/4 mile?
Also have you heard of any high perfomance fuel for diesel engines? Maybe some kerosine mix?
zagrot
10-13-2005, 07:36 AM
you can get cetane suplements for diesel fuel. maybe you should make your decision based on power to weight ratios, or maybe torque to weight ratios. if you plan to drive this car daily and take it to the track for the occasional thrill then a vw diesel is ok but if it is to be a dedicated drag racer then maybe you will want to consider a different power plant. not that a diesel vehicle can't be fast, this shows the contrary: http://list.priceweber.com/cummins/sidewinder.html and there is the tdi gti in europe, but i think it might take a bit of work to extract big numbers from an idi diesel, but maybe i'm wrong and it just needs a higher manifold pressure and intercooler. at least the rabbit has a light body going for it. if you can manage to shoe horn a vr-6 into a rabbit that will definately get you down the track in a hurry. another thing to consider is that front drive cars are really difficult to build to drag race since the body's weight will tend to shift away from the drive wheels on a launch. once you reach a certian power level you will have a difficult time keeping traction. i'm not sure that the phrase "hook up" has ever applied.
Automotive Network, Inc., Copyright ©2025
