am i running rich

i've got a 92 civic cx hb. 116,000 miles, CAI, cat back. no other mods. i dont drive the car very hard at all. but the whole back of my car is covered in black sut. at higher rpm's black smoke comes out the pipe. if its running rich. what can i do to fix that. the little 1.5 lt motor needs all the help it can get, with only having 72 hp from the factory. any ideas would be great.

What type of Cat-Back? It may be burning oil a bit, have the Compression Ratio checked, this may tell you your problem, but hopefully not.

-Wes

just a 2.25 pipe, with a magna-flo resanator and a free flow muffler.

Hmm... Same Exhaust System our entire crew uses. I have no crap on the back of my car at all. That's strange.

You need to get get a Compression Test done. It sounds to me like you're burning up some oil.

-Wes

Yes you're running rich. I had that problem when my O2 sensor went bad.. black shit all over the back of my car.

could be either comp test it and report back

I'd agree it's probabl;y running rich, but have the c/r checked while your at it...as it will help tell you the conditon of your motor.

As for a cat-back, zed-ex, the type really doesn't matter in terms of what is casing the black soot. The type/make of cat-back isn't going to cause black soot, that is a different problem entirely not connected to the cat-back exhaust. As far as type of cat-back for power...if you use good 2.25" madrel bending and a nice free flowing muffler, they all should be close enough it won't make a difference, exept in sound.

1hbman, if you are looking to put more power in, which I gather you are thinking of based on the "the little 1.5 lt motor needs all the help it can get" comment, here is the best advice you are going to bet. Just keep the D15B8 in good condtion and tuned, and don't mess with that motor for power. That motor is 8 vavles and around 62 hp or so...and it has thin connectiong rods like the DX motor, the D15B7. If you want power, swap to something else. Save your money and just spend only what is needed to keep this motor running decent until you can afford the new one. A D16Z6 from a 92-95 EX or Si hatch will give you around 125hp @ the cranl and it a good canidate for a junkyard turbo...this is a decent route if you are short on cash, and these motors are cheap and plentiful.

If you want more, go for a B series. They are built stronger, the Vtec is tuned for power and not emissions like with the D series, and they respond far better to mods and, in short are capible of more power. The B16A is a good high reving choice, but is low on troque. The GSR revs decent and has more torque and HP to boot. The LS has less HP than both but the most low end torque, hitting 1lb ft more trqoue than the GSR at a lower rpm. It also has the most displacemtn of the 3, but has no vtec. This is a great motor for boost, and a stock block tuned well can handle 12psi, which should be good for 275whp. Remember, thats tuned well..tuning is everything!!!

Now last, there's a frank b series like the LS/vtec. Take a LS block and stick a vtec head (b16A, GSR or type-R) on it. Just be careful not to rev it past 7K too much. It still should give you a good mix of both worlds. High reving and low end torque. Well built, it will put out more hp than the GSr even. The reason I mention to not rev too much past 7K is the head is built for it but the block is still LS and wasn't made to rev than high. It's a safegaurd basically.

Anyways, I hope this advice is of help. If you have an questions just ask.

As for a cat-back, zed-ex, the type really doesn't matter in terms of what is casing the black soot. The type/make of cat-back isn't going to cause black soot, that is a different problem entirely not connected to the cat-back exhaust.

... I'm confused about what you said here. I wasn't saying it was CAUSING the black soot. I was saying that you might even see the soot with a stock exhaust system. But with the system he has, it will come out a lot easier.

It seems strange that he would have that problem, as I have a High Flow Catalytic Converter (Which I don't recall him mentioning that he has one) and the same exhaust system... No black soot on my rear bumper at all.

Now last, there's a frank b series like the LS/vtec. Take a LS block and stick a vtec head (b16A, GSR or type-R) on it. Just be careful not to rev it past 7K too much. It still should give you a good mix of both worlds. High reving and low end torque. Well built, it will put out more hp than the GSr even. The reason I mention to not rev too much past 7K is the head is built for it but the block is still LS and wasn't made to rev than high. It's a safegaurd basically.

Safegaurds are always smart... But why not past 7,000RPM? My buddy Larry who works for RPM Performance in Jacksonville, NC has a B20/VTEC that revs deep into 9,000RPM. His only modifications are PHK (B20Z) Pistons, and CTR (B16B) Camshafts. Everything else is stock. He hasn't had one problem with that engine at all... His only problem has been he can't keep axels from popping off the line. I guess Racing Slicks with 5psi, and such a strong motor aren't good for stock axels :lol:

I think he's going with Fidanza axels last I heard.

Just wondering if it's different with LS/VTEC... I wouldn't think so, seeming as the B20 is out of a Step Wagon, and isn't made to rev as high as a Sports Car.

-Wes

... I'm confused about what you said here. I wasn't saying it was CAUSING the black soot. I was saying that you might even see the soot with a stock exhaust system. But with the system he has, it will come out a lot easier.

It seems strange that he would have that problem, as I have a High Flow Catalytic Converter (Which I don't recall him mentioning that he has one) and the same exhaust system... No black soot on my rear bumper at all.



Safegaurds are always smart... But why not past 7,000RPM? My buddy Larry who works for RPM Performance in Jacksonville, NC has a B20/VTEC that revs deep into 9,000RPM. His only modifications are PHK (B20Z) Pistons, and CTR (B16B) Camshafts. Everything else is stock. He hasn't had one problem with that engine at all... His only problem has been he can't keep axels from popping off the line. I guess Racing Slicks with 5psi, and such a strong motor aren't good for stock axels :lol:

I think he's going with Fidanza axels last I heard.

Just wondering if it's different with LS/VTEC... I wouldn't think so, seeming as the B20 is out of a Step Wagon, and isn't made to rev as high as a Sports Car.

-Wes

It depends on who builts the LS/Vtec...if you trust the guy then yeah, you can rev it to were he says. It's seen some crap LS/Vtec's that pop out when rev'd to high though...so if you don't know the guys work, play it safe!!!! I have seen more than one motor set up similer to that exlpode in a blaze of glory!!!

LS rods typically can't handle a rev near that high...they weren't made to go past 7K...that's where the 7,000 rpm comes from. LS motors weren't make max hp @ 6300rpm and redline is at 6800rpm. 7000 rpm is considered the safe limit for a stock LS block. The B20 is just a bored out LS block really...Without new rods or rods re-worked by a reputable company...you are at the mercy of OEM rods pushed WAYYYY past their limit. Without a type-R head, deep into 9K will eventaully overtax the head and case issues there too. So that's a danger on two counts there. Maybe his motor lasts and works, maybe it doesn't. If that really is all he has, and he's revving way past 9,000 rpm...then thats pushing the OEM parts way past what the where designed for. Maybe you luck out and get a very good set of OEM internals good WAY past what OEM spec calls for. Maybe you don't I wouldn't want to risk my build on that. Unless you have a type-r head or new valves, springs, etc...and have new rods in the block...I wouldn't rev it that high. If you rev it that high on stock rods and an OEM non-type-r head...maybe it lasts for awhile..but eventaully...your luck will run and I'll you'll have the worlds heaviest papaer weight.

As for the exhuast, you never said that was the reason you were mentioning it, so be a little more clear in what you mean next time to aviod confusion!!!

Also, Among the MANY MANY mods I have, I have a High Flow Cat also...a Random Tech Cat, 2.25" custom mandrel bent exhaust, high flow muffler and 18" resonator...all runnning off a B18B1. No soot, soot is a product of a motor issue, not becuase you swapped exhausts. You didn't make clear before what you ment when you asked about the exhuast he had, thats all. Just be more clear with what you mean to help us understand. You asked what type of exhuast he had, but never mentioned why you wanted to know. It would have helped if you'd mentioned that in the first post :smile:

Well the reason I asked was if it was OEM Exhaust... Then something is certainly not right.

As for the LS/VTEC build. Another one of my buddies Chuck who worked at the same place as Larry built an LS/VTEC. Golden Eagle VTEC Conversion and everything.

After the initial break in, he took it on the dyno wide open... The head shifted on the block :eek:

Turns out. His other friend who helped him build it, forgot to put the Dowel Pins in. Even though the head was torqued down to specification on the block, it still shifted to the side. His $3,000 build blew first run past 6,500RPM.

So it's all about doing it right, and being meticulous with your build. If it's done right, then you can have a monster. If it's done wrong, you have a headache.

-Wes

Well the reason I asked was if it was OEM Exhaust... Then something is certainly not right.

As for the LS/VTEC build. Another one of my buddies Chuck who worked at the same place as Larry built an LS/VTEC. Golden Eagle VTEC Conversion and everything.

After the initial break in, he took it on the dyno wide open... The head shifted on the block

Turns out. His other friend who helped him build it, forgot to put the Dowel Pins in. Even though the head was torqued down to specification on the block, it still shifted to the side. His $3,000 build blew first run past 6,500RPM.

So it's all about doing it right, and being meticulous with your build. If it's done right, then you can have a monster. If it's done wrong, you have a headache.

-Wes

OEM exhuast or not doesn't make a difference. Black soot shouldn't be foruming there, whether it's an OEM exhuast, hi-flow cat or aftermarket/custom set-up. It doesn't matter. The cat and the exhaust system have no bearing or cause in this. It's not connected to the exhaust at all. The problem is seperate...fuel/engine related. Whatever is causing the problem would still create that black soot, whether he has an OEM exhaust or aftermarket/custom set-up.

That's because as I said above, the exhaust isn't the issue, nor is it the cause of the problem. The fuel/engine is the issue. The exhaust is just where you see the end result of the problem show up easily, the black soot.

The Golden Eagle LS/Vtec conversion...nothing special really. You still need the b16a, b18c, b18c1 or b18c5 head...and then you need the ecu, etc. All the golden eagle kit gives you is the lines, fittings, gromments, etc.

People were doing an LS/vtec conversion long before GE packadged all those parts up and sold em as a "kit." All the GE kit does is allow you to get the lines, fittings, etc in one packadge at once...and for a little premium.

Many people still do it the old way, and just source out and buy seperate the lines, fittings, etc. GE just took the lines and fittings and put them in a clever packadge with cleaver marketing. However, it's really nothing special when compared to buying it all yourself seperatly, and it's no better. It's just easier in some respects, esplecially if you don't know what you need fully, since you'll get all those lines and fittings shiped to your door. However, if you don't know what you need, you probably shouldn't be doing the build.

It's not hard to find everything... There are plenty of online tutorials pertaining to the LS/VTEC, B20/VTEC build.

Some people who run shops buy everything already packaged, because it's simpler on them, and it looks better for the customer. Example, when our shop does an H22 swap for one of our personal cars, we utilize stock wiring harness, and make it work. Because we don't care how it looks, as long as it works just as good.

However, when my buddies shop (MADSPEED) does an H22 swap for a customer... He buys the HASport Wiring Harness, HASport mounts, etc. When they do an LS/VTEC build, they trust high quality parts. He doesn't want his customer to look in the engine bay and say "Well... I don't know... It kind of looks rigged with the wiring... But I guess it's straight" He wants them to say "Nice looking man, it looks real clean!"

There's a big difference there.

That doesn't mean they don't know how to do the build... It just means they value quality. I'm the same way, it just makes things simpler.

-Wes

OEM exhuast or not doesn't make a difference. Black soot shouldn't be foruming there, whether it's an OEM exhuast, hi-flow cat or aftermarket/custom set-up. It doesn't matter. The cat and the exhaust system have no bearing or cause in this. It's not connected to the exhaust at all. The problem is seperate...fuel/engine related. Whatever is causing the problem would still create that black soot, whether he has an OEM exhaust or aftermarket/custom set-up.

That's because as I said above, the exhaust isn't the issue, nor is it the cause of the problem. The fuel/engine is the issue. The exhaust is just where you see the end result of the problem show up easily, the black soot.

The Golden Eagle LS/Vtec conversion...nothing special really. You still need the b16a, b18c, b18c1 or b18c5 head...and then you need the ecu, etc. All the golden eagle kit gives you is the lines, fittings, gromments, etc.

People were doing an LS/vtec conversion long before GE packadged all those parts up and sold em as a "kit." All the GE kit does is allow you to get the lines, fittings, etc in one packadge at once...and for a little premium.

Many people still do it the old way, and just source out and buy seperate the lines, fittings, etc. GE just took the lines and fittings and put them in a clever packadge with cleaver marketing. However, it's really nothing special when compared to buying it all yourself seperatly, and it's no better. It's just easier in some respects, esplecially if you don't know what you need fully, since you'll get all those lines and fittings shiped to your door. However, if you don't know what you need, you probably shouldn't be doing the build.

About 2 years ago I posted about this and yes it does make a difference. The exhaust does NOT cause the soot but allows it to go through. When I had my stock exhaust, my back bumper was clean enough to eat off of. When I installed my tanabe exhaust, my bumper turned black every 2 days. I'd clean it off and 2 days later I'd find my self cleaning it again. I really really got tired of it and had to have the exhaust moved out about 3 to almost 4 inches. No joke. People would make fun of me because of the "black burn spot" I'd get on my car. People kept thinking that it was a nasty burn on my bumper. Eventually I swapped my engine so of course I never got soot again as it was my engine burning oil causing the spot, BUT.... If I would have NEVER taken off my stock muffler, the spot would have NEVER appeared... Exhaust's do have some play in this. :evillol:

That's what my point was...

-Wes

About 2 years ago I posted about this and yes it does make a difference. The exhaust does NOT cause the soot but allows it to go through. When I had my stock exhaust, my back bumper was clean enough to eat off of. When I installed my tanabe exhaust, my bumper turned black every 2 days. I'd clean it off and 2 days later I'd find my self cleaning it again. I really really got tired of it and had to have the exhaust moved out about 3 to almost 4 inches. No joke. People would make fun of me because of the "black burn spot" I'd get on my car. People kept thinking that it was a nasty burn on my bumper. Eventually I swapped my engine so of course I never got soot again as it was my engine burning oil causing the spot, BUT.... If I would have NEVER taken off my stock muffler, the spot would have NEVER appeared... Exhaust's do have some play in this. :evillol:

I remember that thread of yours actaully. My point was the exhaust didn't matter becuase it wasn't CAUSING the issue. It was HIDING the problem, but the fact remained the motor was the problem. Changing the exhaust just made you realize your motor was bad, but it still didn't make a difference. The motor was bad both ways and needed replacing. Once you replaced the motor, you were fine.

I see the point, but that was my point, but my point was that either way, the exhaust doesn't matter because it doesn't cause the problem it just HIDES the problem. I suppose I never believed in hiding or jury rigging a problem. If it's there fix it. If swapping exhausts told you that you have a motor issue, all putting the OEM on back on will do it hide the problem. The motor is still the issue, and still has a problem.:) That was my point :p

Wes, while I see you point to a certain extent, all hasport dies it make a harness using stock ones anyways. If you are good with wiring and do it nice and clean, you can save the $$ and it'll look nice, clean and OEM. That's what we did for my LS automatic swap like 3+ years ago. No one had a harness for that, heck..that was the swap from hell...and LS auto into a civic? Everyone told me and thought it couldn't be done. The tranny was too dang big, the ecu and tranny controler were seperate,a nd the wiring and sensors...all of it had to be redone, from behind the dash into the engine...all of it. Talk about a wiring nightmare, LOL. Had to notch the frame rail, yank the dash and add sensors and wires...redo the whole harness behind there. Do and OBD-II to OBD-I conversion on the motor and then use backdated OBD-I electronics, wire the car for the P75 tranny control unit that piggypacks off the ecu (civics auto trannys are controled by the ecu, tegs are a seperatly controlled electronically controlled trannys). It looks clean though, really clean. No hack at all. No one questions because a company like harsport wasn't used. My point is, you can do the wiring harness yourself and make it look clean and nice if you take the time and are careful. Likewise, you can hack it and make it look like hell. Hasport has the benifit of coming to you looking decent, which is better than hacking it toghter. If you take the time though, you can make a harness just as good as them, and save some $$. It'll take a bit of time sure...but if you can't do it right don't do it.:) In that sense, having someone else do it is better than hacking it, but I'd rather do it myself, do it clean and save the money as long as I can. :2cents: :smile:

Yeah I get that... Just like before Missing Link Adapters came about, tuners had to use Tetra Pond filters to keep the MAP from throwing codes :lol:

Tuners will always evolved, and figure out ways to do things... And companies will always figure out ways to simplify these methods, and put them in a nice package.

Either way, it works... It's just some methods are simpler than others.

-Wes