Where is our aid?

Now that the hurricane is over and left behind hundreds dead and tens of thousands homeless without food or water I want to know one thing.


Where is the aid from other countries?

12 countries have already signed on to render help. One of them being Germany. I believe they were actually the first to offer help.

Any money comming in?

They don't deserve it. Because they're dumb. In most states it's illegal to build a home on a flood plain. New Orleans is a city built under sea level.
If somebody builds their house in an errupting volcanoe - are you going to feel sad for them when it burns down? You'd think more people'd take the moral of the "build your house on rock, not on sand" story from the bible to heart. Yeah it's sad people died, but it's not like these people couldn't have done anything to save themselves.
Secondly the U.S. government has more than enough money to do everything that needs to be done - that is if it hasn't already been wasted on weapons we'll never use.
Any country that sends money is only supporting that this sort of disaster happens again.

They don't deserve it. Because they're dumb. In most states it's illegal to build a home on a flood plain. New Orleans is a city built under sea level.
If somebody builds their house in an errupting volcanoe - are you going to feel sad for them when it burns down? You'd think more people'd take the moral of the "build your house on rock, not on sand" story from the bible to heart. Yeah it's sad people died, but it's not like these people couldn't have done anything to save themselves.
Secondly the U.S. government has more than enough money to do everything that needs to be done - that is if it hasn't already been wasted on weapons we'll never use.

I will address the second part only. The first part wasn't worth commenting on.

We have more than enough money? Most countries we offer help to have more than enough money also but they have no problem accepting it. Also it's not the US governments money. It's our money.

They don't deserve it. Because they're dumb. In most states it's illegal to build a home on a flood plain. New Orleans is a city built under sea level.

Dumb... How do you figure? Most people who live there make less than minimum wage and live in deplorable conditions. Not because they want to... But because they have no other choice.

Yeah it's sad people died, but it's not like these people couldn't have done anything to save themselves.

Like what exactly? The only shelter they had ( the superdome) ended up becoming a giant strainer basket. PLUS the fact that less than 10 percent of all the residents of the lowest areas had NO TRANSPORTATION!

Any country that sends money is only supporting that this sort of disaster happens again.


So let me get this straight.... If you live on the east coast your an idiot due to the threat of HURRICANES
Sooooo based on your logic....
If you live in the midwest your and idiot due to TORNADOS
If you live in the northwest you an idiot due to SNOWSTORMS
If you live on the west coast your an idiot due to EARTHQUAKES
Where in the hell do you live that is so free from natures fury?

I will address the second part only. The first part wasn't worth commenting on.

We have more than enough money? Most countries we offer help to have more than enough money also but they have no problem accepting it. Also it's not the US governments money. It's our money.
Yea no shit. The government doesn't pay for shit. We the tax payers do. We can, need and must accept any help brought to us from other countries. It will help us out financially and for petes fucking sake we deserve help from other countries for a change. So many of them owe us billions as it is, the least they can do is send food and water. I'm tired of everyone thinking the U.S. should be helping every country out. I was actually going to bring up this topic until i heard about us getting help this morning.

Any idea where to get a story on what was offered?

Secondly the U.S. government has more than enough money to do everything that needs to be done - that is if it hasn't already been wasted on weapons we'll never use.
Any country that sends money is only supporting that this sort of disaster happens again.

Yep we have enough money! Like how they cut funding for the flood gates that broke and caused this huge disaster!

I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune if you had family and friends down there.

I'm sure you'd be singing a different tune if you had family and friends down there.
That is oh so true. It's always different when something happens to someone or something youare connected to in someway but then is meaningless when happening to others.
And countries can start sending in law enforcement or military to help with all the looting going on.

i think that to an extent the govt. is not doing all that it possibly could. as far as the rescues go, i mean, one would think that they could get a bunch of boats, float around and find people that are stranded. there was a story on NBC's nightly news about a guy that brought 4 air boats down and was floatin around looking for people. if ONE guy can bring FOUR boats, what can the govt. do? (granted i have done a lot of research or anything on this so far so i may look like i don't know what i'm talking, that's fine, please correct me if i'm wrong)

unfortunately i think we may see sort of the same problem that there was in India when the the tsunamis hit. there were plenty of relief items and everything, but it was VERY hard to find places to store it all. most of the warehouses in new orleans were either destroyed or badly damaged. add in the factor that cars can't get around that well with all the water, it's really hard to distribute all the supplies. top it off with the fact that communications are down, you're looking at some serious aftermath problems.

two restaraunts where i live, in the Southwest, will match donations dollar for dollar up through October in hopes of raising 10 grand. i'll make sure i eat there more than enough.

sorry for the semi-ranting on here. had to get the ideas off my chest, this always is a good place to do that

I have some friends in that area, found out they are alive and ok.

The news has been soo busy covering what is and has happened that they fail to say other countries are sending help. Things like this bring countroes together.

2strokebloke (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/member.php?u=61447) I hope nothing bad ever happens to you because we can say it serves you so.

The problem woth the Govt bringing a bunch of boats out is that the govt doesn't own a bunch of boats, At least not the size needed. They do have a lot of open sea and large lake vessels but not the smaller boats. I think private boat owners are the best bet in that situation.

I get what you are saying though. Is the govt using all it's resources to help? I hope so. We pay enough for all those resources. I certainly hope we are getting at least some of our moneys worth.

What's the situation with the levees? Are they gonna plug em up, or do a complete rebuild?

Last I heard is they were looking for a barge to plug one of the holes. I imagine they will try and rebuild them. They will probably sink some major Federal dollars into the rebuild this time around.

I heard that they were going to destroy them to make the water go back down then complete rebuild.

i heard for a quick fix, they were bringing in chinook helo's and they were going to drop like 300 lb sand bags. hopefully that's just a quick fix.

i know if i were there i'd be lootin wally world like a mo fo. buying, i mean taking, every floatable thing i could find.

they make it sound like the looting is a bad thing, and it is, don't get me wrong, but those people are just trying to survive. all they had is now gone. most of the people that are stranded and stuff were poor and didn't have enough money to get out of town. it's perfectly logical.

So let me get this straight.... If you live on the east coast your an idiot due to the threat of HURRICANES
No. You cannot stop a hurricane, but you can be smart enough to live someplace that isn't underwater.
If you build a house on a 50 year flood plane - knowing that it is a 50 year flood plane - and it floods, and your house is destroyed - you are an idiot. It's something within your control, you may not know exactly when, but you do know it will happen. For decades people have been saying that this would happen to New Orleans, and it's no surprise that it did.
I do have friends and family in Mississippi and Louisiana - nobody died, nobody was stupid enough to live someplace located below sea level.
Also, once the government takes your money - it's not your money anymore. It's not in your pocket, and you're not the one deciding what exactly it's getting spent on.

No. You cannot stop a hurricane, but you can be smart enough to live someplace that isn't underwater.
If you build a house on a 50 year flood plane - knowing that it is a 50 year flood plane - and it floods, and your house is destroyed - you are an idiot. It's something within your control, you may not know exactly when, but you do know it will happen. For decades people have been saying that this would happen to New Orleans, and it's no surprise that it did.


With a bit more compassion, I must logically agree. I wouldn't go so far as to call the people idiots, but choosing to live below sea level, on the coast, in an area notorious for hurricanes isn't the brightest idea.

Does New Orleans deserve the aid of others? Not really. However, according to Tex 12 countries have already signed up, and I expect there will be more. You must keep in mind, however, that the majority of the countries in the world simply cannot possibly contribute, whether they want to or not, and it's arrogant and ignorant to condemn them when they do not contribute aid. "They already owe the US billions"...precisely why they cannot afford to provide aid. Nevertheless, we are already seeing countries do what they can, which in every case will less than the US has the ability to offer other countries. As Americans are so found of pointing out, the US is indeed the world's greatest powerhouse - it takes two short guys to rub the wound on the tall guy's head...

That said, I wish the survivors the best of luck, and would like to see the world help out as best they can.

Does anyone know who offered what as far as foreign countries go?

Does New Orleans deserve the aid of others? Not really. Why not? However, according to Tex 12 countries have already signed up, and I expect there will be more. Any idea who they are and how much they offered? You must keep in mind, however, that the majority of the countries in the world simply cannot possibly contribute, whether they want to or not, I don't expect the poor countries to help. and it's arrogant and ignorant to condemn them when they do not contribute aid.

But they condemn us when we are seen as not giving enough or not giving quickly enough. Isn't that like looking a gift hourse in the mouth? Or biteing the hand that is feeding you? "They already owe the US billions"...precisely why they cannot afford to provide aid. Do you know how much the US owes? Nevertheless, we are already seeing countries do what they can, which in every case will less than the US has the ability to offer other countries. That's great...Any idea who they are and how much is offered? As Americans are so found of pointing out, the US is indeed the world's greatest powerhouse - it takes two short guys to rub the wound on the tall guy's head...That said, I wish the survivors the best of luck, and would like to see the world help out as best they can. I'm not concerned about us being a powerhouse.

No. You cannot stop a hurricane, but you can be smart enough to live someplace that isn't underwater.
If you build a house on a 50 year flood plane - knowing that it is a 50 year flood plane - and it floods, and your house is destroyed - you are an idiot. It's something within your control, you may not know exactly when, but you do know it will happen. For decades people have been saying that this would happen to New Orleans, and it's no surprise that it did.
I do have friends and family in Mississippi and Louisiana - nobody died, nobody was stupid enough to live someplace located below sea level.
Also, once the government takes your money - it's not your money anymore. It's not in your pocket, and you're not the one deciding what exactly it's getting spent on.

I guess they are kind of like all those idiots living in South Africa and starving. We told them for years that it was hard to grow food in a desert but they wouldn't listen. Don't get me started about the fools in Japan with all those earth quakes. Don't they know one is comming along sooner or later that will destroy their homes? Duh....

Well, as far as the looting goes, I have no problems with them doing it -- provided it's looting to survive. Breaking into a store for food, water, clothing, or medical supplies is an entirely understandable practice. Hell, if I owned a convenient store that was in that situation, I wouldn't mind if people looted the hell out of it so they could survive, I mean, the place is already destroyed anyways. The looting I DON'T agree with, and the looting the city is plagued with right now, is the truly criminal kind. TV's, jewelry, DVD players, computers, and other material goods are not necessary for your survival, hence, the theft of them, is only contributing to the problem, since it breeds more and more rampant acts. As we talk about this, the city is FORCED to divert police from helping people, to stopping looters, because they're breaking into homes and cars, and moving outside the affected areas (basically taking advantage of the chaos.) I have a friend right now, who's sitting in the third floor of the apartment he shares with a friend down there, rifle in hand. They've been there since the whole fiasco started, and one of the members of their neighborhood actually broke into a gunshop around the corner to grab guns to give out to other neighbors, which is where they got theirs from. My friend tells me that these looters are driving around in pickup trucks and offering to help people get to safe ground, then when they drive away, a truck full of their cohorts pulls up and loots the house. This is the kind of bullshit that is hindering progress down there, and the shots being fired that the news is reporting on? Probably people just like my friend, sending warning shots up to ward off would-be looters. We've all seen the shop owners out front with the "You loot, I shoot" signs.

As far as rebuilding, even IF they're able to continue successful extractions of survivors, and IF they're able to repair the levee and drain the town, and IF they're able to get the power and utilities back up to some degree, they're STILL stuck with a town completely destroyed by water that was full of sewage, gasoline, debris, and worse of all, bodies. They're going to be pulling bodies out of attics and storm drains for weeks. No one can reasonably expect the survivors to go back to that. The place is, for lack of a better term, condemned. I wouldn't be surprised if they finish up rescue efforts, THEN tell the people "Listen, we didn't want to tell you earlier and risk hindering the rescue process, but we're going to have to burn a lot of this city to the ground." Seriously, how else can you solve the problem? That water has gotten into and contaminated EVERYTHING.

This scenario may be the best answer in the long run anyways, as no sane governing body would allow people to rebuild in the manner of before. The ground that New Orleans sits on will HAVE to be raised, because (while I have the deepest sympathy for the victims) most people NEW the place was a catastrophy waiting to happen, and they HAVE known this for decades. It wasn't a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN. So, "New" New Orleans will probably (and if I may say, ideally) be built on raised ground laid down on top of any unsalvageable remains of the old city.

Though it would be nice for other countries to send resources to assist in NO, its not needed. We have the resources to deal with this ourselves. Its not the materials or money thats the issue, its logistics. The tsunami in the Indian Ocean didn't get relief efforts underway in full swing for several days for the same reason. Resources came available (though the generosity of the world) but logistics of getting things where they needed to be takes time.













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several conteries did offer help, bush turned them down. He said it was an internal problem and we did not need there help!!! So Please dont bash other conteries. Iran was one of the offers to help, and we are fixin to bomb them. My prayers go out to all in this disaster.........

I wasn't starting a country bashing thread. I wanted to know who and what was offered.

Heaven forbid that another country other than the US would get bashed .

The only country I know of for sure is Russia http://en.rian.ru/russia/20050830/41254695.html













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i tried to find a list but couldn't. i only looke for about 5 minutes though.

one thing that i really don't understand, and hopefully you all can help me out. i was watching an ABC special last night about Katrina. they were reporting that their parent company, Disney, was contributing like 200,000 dollars. it seems to me that companies like that could contribute a little more. i mean, 200 grand, to me that it is a lot yes. but for a company as large as Disney, who has multiple theme parks all over the world, lord know how many movies out, one would think that they could contribute at least a million.

According to State Department Sean McCormack 10 to 12 foerign governments have offered general assistance to the United States, plus Venuezalan Pres Chavez. See here (http://allthings2all.blogspot.com/2005/08/foreign-nations-offer-aid-for-katrina.html). now as to which countries the State Department is referring too, it does not say.

TS out

this is totally off the subject of Where the aid is, but i figure why start yet another post about the hurricane.

incase any of you are interested http://digitalglobe.com/ has some satellite imagery, before and after pics, of new orleans, biloxi and other place effected by katrina. it's amazing to see it. it's one thing to see pictures and video on television. you see this though and are in total awe of the power mother nature has.

Here is a list of foreign countries offering aid for Katrina, and the US State Dept.'s response:
http://allthings2all.blogspot.com/2005/09/list-of-foreign-countries-offering.html

Here is a list of foreign countries offering aid for Katrina, and the US State Dept.'s response:
http://allthings2all.blogspot.com/2005/09/list-of-foreign-countries-offering.html

Catez,

Thank you for the link. It took a newb to the boards to find it. Welcome aboard.

:)

Why not?

I already explained why - it was stupid of them to build a city there. Just like it's stupid to settle in the desert, or on unstable rock. If build my house on railroad tracks and it gets destroyed by a train, I don't deserve your help.

I wasn't trying to say others shouldn't help - in fact I'm thrilled that they are helping - but they are helping through their own compassion and generousity rather than obligation.

Any idea who they are and how much they offered? I don't expect the poor countries to help.

I looked but couldn't find the info, I just trusted Tex when he said that was the case.


But they condemn us when we are seen as not giving enough or not giving quickly enough. Isn't that like looking a gift hourse in the mouth? Or biteing the hand that is feeding you?

Two wrongs don't make a right! I in no way want to imply I support the actions and demands of others - but getting upset about others' generousity (or lack thereof) reduces you to their level. We both know you're better than that.

more on some of the aid
PARIS (Reuters) - Europe will tap emergency stocks of gasoline to help the United States through an energy crisis triggered after Hurricane Katrina smashed into Gulf Coast refiners, EU governments said on Friday.

The West's energy watchdog, the International Energy Agency (IEA) announced that its members would release two million barrels per day (bpd) of oil over an initial period of 30 days.

About half that will be gasoline from European refiners including Germany, France, Spain, Britain and Italy plus Canada, matching output lost from the Gulf Coast's battered refineries. The remainder will be crude from U.S. state reserves.

Gasoline prices have soared by nearly a fifth over the past week and President George W. Bush has urged Americans to go easy on fuel.



Unlike European nations, the United States holds no state reserves of gasoline, having focused its strategic energy efforts on building huge stocks of crude in case of disruption from the Middle East.

"It's self-evident that we support the American bid," German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder told a news conference in Berlin.

France echoed Schroeder's remarks: "This request is consistent with efforts for solidarity with the American people," the Industry Ministry said in a statement.

But Europe's pledge of gasoline may carry a political price for Washington. Differences over trade and foreign policy have strained relations between the United States and some EU member states including Germany and France.

Speaking at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Wales, EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said: "Whatever the United States asks for they will be given."

Crude oil prices have hit levels not seen in real terms since 1980 -- the year of the Iran-Iraq war and a year after the Iranian revolution that choked off supply lines.

Prices eased on Friday on news that Europe was riding to the aid of the United States.

But European oil will take at least 10 days to reach U.S. shores and tanker space is in short supply with many commercial ships already under charter and crossing the Atlantic.

EU members have substantial emergency reserves. France expects to provide about 92,000 barrels per day of gasoline, Britain would offer 73,000 bpd while Spain said would release 70,000 bpd.

The IEA last released emergency reserves in 1991 when a U.S.-led coalition ejected Iraqi troops from Kuwait.

The agency, created after the 1973-74 oil crisis to protect consumers, requires member countries hold stocks of at least 90 days of net imports.

Well hopefully this will be the beginning of a stronger relationship with some of the other European Union States that have been strained lately. It is kind of nice to humble ourselves for a change and hold out our hand for help rather than holding it out to give help. Maybe that's what we have been needing for a while.

Canada is sending 4 military ships, 1000 troops and personnel, 91,000 barrels of oil per day, and hundreds of civillian staff, food, equipment, engineers, construction materials, and, as our Prime Minister says, anything else that is needed and for as long as it takes.

This is nice to see because the US and Canada have had the odd trade dispute (softwood lumber, beef) and foreign relations dispute, (missile defence, Iraq) dispite the fact Canada and the US are each others most important trading partners.

So its nice, in one way, to see some relations mended through adversity.

However, I did find this:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/8/31/235829/261

I thought this picture was quite poignant

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/images/fallujahneworleans.jpg

I already explained why - it was stupid of them to build a city there. Just like it's stupid to settle in the desert, or on unstable rock. If build my house on railroad tracks and it gets destroyed by a train, I don't deserve your help. If anyone builds a house on railroad tracks while its still in operation, then they are more stupid than one is led to believe. Seriously how can you use those examples for comparisons. History has shown that when poeple settle in a land they do not settle in a dry arrid dessert land, but rather in a furtile one. It is through time and climate changes that the land becomes dry and almost unsuitable. But by this point there are too many people in the area.

As for NOLA, the city was settled at its location due to the river and the notion that all commerce would eventually lead to and from the mouth of the river. The city itself was actually built on the high ground near the mouth of the Mississippi River, like 12 feet about sea level. It is through time and weather that certain sections that were not as high started to get flooded. Therefore to protect the remaining high ground areas, the levees, water pumps and drainage canals were created to protect the city. The river itself flows towards the gulf and with it brings sediment downstream, thereby filling in the marshes and land areas with each and every flood etc. But when the levees were constructed this natural replenishing was interupted and thus the land started to sink to its natural state. By this time way too many folks were living there and the commerce had already been established and relocating was not an option.

References: A River and Its City (http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=105854685)

TS out

I do have friends and family in Mississippi and Louisiana - nobody died, nobody was stupid enough to live someplace located below sea level..:eek7: , Did you even bother to read or watch on TV (or maybe look at a map, Hint- New Orleans is in?) about whats happen. Before you posted?

:disappoin

The more I'm reading this, and other, threads on this subject I feel pity.

Some of you need to grow the fuck up. I'd hate for you to go through something like this to get the damn message through your simple mind.