cam preference: hp or torque?

alot of people look for horsepower when going wiht a new cam.
thats not true in most cases however ...

you can either buy a cam with alot of lift, which essentially opens and closes the valves quicker, giving you less torque off the line and more horsepower during high rpm's(for example: formula 1 cars), OR you can get a cam which holds the valves open longer which gives you torque off the line, but a loss of horsepower on the high end.

which would u rather have? would u rather show off your cam'ed powered v8 at a red light when a mustang pulls up next to you OR on the highway when an import honks 3 times?

alot of people look for horsepower when going wiht a new cam.
thats not true in most cases however ...

you can either buy a cam with alot of lift, which essentially opens and closes the valves quicker, giving you less torque off the line and more horsepower during high rpm's(for example: formula 1 cars), OR you can get a cam which holds the valves open longer which gives you torque off the line, but a loss of horsepower on the high end.

which would u rather have? would u rather show off your cam'ed powered v8 at a red light when a mustang pulls up next to you OR on the highway when an import honks 3 times?

both, go for something right in the miggle

The cam I installed in the LS1 when I had it netted me over 350 ft/pounds from 2700+. Also gained 41 RWHP at a higher RPM.

I got both. Here is the chart before and after the cam. Nothing else but valvetrain components installed here. Springs, pushrods, and 226/234 554/575 112.
The dyno operator was asked to start at different RPM's for these runs, but they are still matched up and on the same chart.
Before cam = Red
After cam = Blue

http://home.comcast.net/~mrluos/Graph1.JPG

Needless to say...I didn't have to worry about many cars from a light or on the highway.

I'm with Viper, right in the miggle ;)

I say go with the former. The cam with high lift gives your camaro something it can definately use, high-end power. You already have plenty of low end torque.

I say go highend as well because its not like you stay in the 0-60 range for long, really.. and thats the only time when torque is really used, but you do already have enough.

Umm, please tell me you guys, err, nevermind.

Go for the torque, without torque, your car is nothing, period.

haha its a tough subject to touch. if you go for the torque, your car will be the one that rockets by all the other cars off the line. only problem is if your doin a 1/4 mile, you'll get to lets say 60 in a heartbeat ... but from like 80 up is when a ''high end hp cam'' kicks in ... kinda like a surprise attack.

i think its all preferance. like i said before .. would u rather woop somebodys ass on the highway or at a red light?

personally ... im gonna say high end power :-)

gEt a VtEc Yo!! :icon16:














I'm kidding of course...

vtec owns ls1/lt1.....hahaha jk

hahaha vtec is just extra cam lobes that create engage at about 5000 rpm which gives high end power. all vtec's have noooo low end torque. the s2000 has like 240 horse and only about 140 torque.

wihch means ur slow off line untill the vtec cam lobes kick in;-)

There's definitely a lot of misconceptions about cam specs and power - not to mention streetability. Guys like throwing in big cams with huge lifts that are making big power but are grossly inefficient.

There's one cam out there from Comp Cams - can't remember which scu - it's such a bad spec but they keep it around because its one of their best selling grinds. The duration is too long for an otherwise streetable LT1 (I realise streetable is a relative term) and the powerband is limiting.

Lous your cam is getting .554 lift with a 226 duration which is a quite streetable and efficient setup (best of both worlds). Although you are achieving that lift with a 1.7 (if not 1.8) ratio rocker. On top of things you've got an engine that can actually burn up most of that fuel mixture!

For the LT1's unless you care nothing for gas prices or powerband, a cam with greater than 230 duration is not ideal. Streetability in the sense driveability (engine smoothness) is another issue - us Gen II guys have got it tough. The LS1's with their coil per cylinder ignition and reverse firing order are extremely smooth cars. I've seen Vette's with .600+ lift cams that idle as smooth as a big ass Caddy. The LT1's are much butchier and even though getting some cam chug is fun, the fact is you can attain that characteristic with an efficient cam.

When I dump my hot cam this winter I'm going with a custom grind that's going to yeild about a .580-.590 lift with a duration around 220 (218 maybe, but with as much lift possible). Believe me it'll still chug at idle but I'll have a heck of a lot more usable power than some pig cam with a really long duration. Think about it - the longer your valves are open the greater overlap you start to get between intke & exhaust whereby fuel goes right out the intake valve and into the exhaust valve. Sure you can make more power with a BIGGER cam but why not make similar power by actually burning all the gas with a more efficient setup.

My car is not a daily driver but I do cruise around and drive in traffic. In the future when I either buy a project Z or go full out racing with mine (and get it towed to the track on a trailer lol) then sure I'll be doing a .700+ lift solid roller with a duration as high as it wants because the thing will be operating above 4500 RPM anyways (and always, right). AND, if I'm rich enough to be enjoying that type of hobby I won't be worried about the gas milleage I get from containers of 110 octane racing fuel!

EDIT: where's my brain, the cam spec I'm working out is 218-220 duration with .575-.590 lift.

Lous your cam is getting .554 lift with a 226 duration which is a quite streetable and efficient setup (best of both worlds). Although you are achieving that lift with a 1.7 (if not 1.8) ratio rocker. On top of things you've got an engine that can actually burn up most of that fuel mixture!
My old cam. :p

New one is a 248/254 629/622 113. :icon16:

hey I agree w/ DVS LT1. He summarized the camshaft way faster than i couldve. i just didnt feel like typing that much. well said...

My old cam. :p

New one is a 248/254 629/622 113. :icon16:


NICE Luos - that's crazy! :evillol:
I bet she still runs smooth though, compared to any other SBC with a cam that big.

You know for all my ramblings there's still the kid in me that gets excited about big cams, lol. He starts saying, "Fuck it - convert to a shaft mount 1.7+ rocker system and do up that solid roller boy!"

What kind of power is your engine making now with that cam - was that cam in the motor you're selling or will it be in the iron block you're building up?

In the iron block.

That cam wouldn't clear in the stock motor.
BTW....I am still hydraulic roller.

hey I agree w/ DVS LT1. He summarized the camshaft way faster than i couldve. i just didnt feel like typing that much. well said...
Yeah Randy is good at popping his head in to pull some tech stuff out his a$$ :smooch:

lol

what amount of lift did u have on ur ws6 with the current cam with the footage and the old cam. which do u think is better ...?

what amount of lift did u have on ur ws6 with the current cam with the footage and the old cam. which do u think is better ...?
I haven't installed my new cam yet. It is too big for the stock motor, it is going in a stroker.

The Lunati cam was the one in my vids, and the one that got me that dynograph.
Duration = 226/234
Lift = .554/.575
LSA = 112

While we're on the subject of cams, what would be a good efficient one to boost power/torque(i don't care, as long as it's faster in the 1/4) for stock unported LT1 heads... but would be usable on them once done up with say an LE2 portjob?

Depends on what the majority of use the vehicle is going to see. If its a street car that is going to see some track duty, IMO LT4 hotcam or comp cam 305 is a excellent all around choice. If its going to mostly a track car, Comp cam 306 or GM 847 will give you one hell of a kick in the pants and as for heads. Ported heads will make any good cam, a great cam.

The cam that I had in my car was a supercharger grind. More exhaust duration/lift than intake.
Normally a boost cam doesn't have the lobe separation angle mine had though. Normally they are around 115.

EDIT: Shit....I misread Flatlander's post. I thought you were asking about boost grinds. I think it is bedtime. :lol:

yeah go for a mild cam to get low end torque as appose to aggressive for high end horsepower ... that cam i would believe would work best from 70mph up power

is ls1/lt1 DOHC or SOHC?

SOHC... otherwise we would need to fiddle with two cams :lol2:

SOHC... otherwise we would need to fiddle with two cams :lol2:
Single Over Head Cam???
The cam isn't over the heads on these motors.

They are OHV. Over Head Valve.

rofl... I knew something was wrong when I was thinking... wait it isn't over the heads... :icon16:


:uhoh:

does chevy produce any dual cam motors?

heh sohc on a ls1? yeah its def a single cam with overhead valves. pretty much all muscle cars are like that .. with a pushrod valve operation.

however i think in the early 90's or so there was a vette that was made which had dohc and put out 380hp. i think it was called the zr-1.

and im sure there are chevy motors with dohc ... i bet the srt4 and pt cruiser has one it it. idk i could be wrong

Yeah Randy is good at popping his head in to pull some tech stuff out his a$$ :smooch:

:grinno: I miss those eloquent words of yours John... cheers buddy



however i think in the early 90's or so there was a vette that was made which had dohc and put out 380hp. i think it was called the zr-1.

I thought this was sarcasm at first, lol - ya, come on guys... ever heard of the "King of the Hill"??? The mightly LT5!??? Chevy produced the ZR-1 Vette from '89 to '95 that ran a Lotus designed/Mercury Marine assembled 32-valve DOHC LT5 V8 that was 5.7 litres in displacement and made 400 hp (in the later versions).

You know as old as pushrod design is it just goes to show you how well Chevy has made it work. That new LS7 427cid Z06 motor is just insane - a 50+ year old concept thats kicking but in race circles around the world.

:grinno: I miss those eloquent words of yours John... cheers buddy





I thought this was sarcasm at first, lol - ya, come on guys... ever heard of the "King of the Hill"??? The mightly LT5!??? Chevy produced the ZR-1 Vette from '89 to '95 that ran a Lotus designed/Mercury Marine assembled 32-valve DOHC LT5 V8 that was 5.7 litres in displacement and made 400 hp (in the later versions).

You know as old as pushrod design is it just goes to show you how well Chevy has made it work. That new LS7 427cid Z06 motor is just insane - a 50+ year old concept thats kicking but in race circles around the world.


that old peice of shit has been knocked off the hill, new king of the hill = Me, lol j/k the new gto has a 6 liter ls2 engine.

Eh the king of the hill I think is the LS7.. because hey look S comes before T on the alphabet so it's better and also its up 2 numbers past the other engine.. so it's better. :lol:

Man, that LT5 is nice and all. But man does it look like a pain to work on. There's alomost no room under the hood to where you can work on it. Though, changing out your spark plugs does look to be way easier.

http://www.rogerscorvette.com/spots/mar99/spot.htm

There's a link with some pics and info.

Eh the king of the hill I think is the LS7.. because hey look S comes before T on the alphabet so it's better and also its up 2 numbers past the other engine.. so it's better. :lol:

lol, how did i forgewt about teh ls7? :S

btw, i want a dash that is like that zr1 http://www.rogerscorvette.com/spots/mar99/odometer.jpg <i like that alot, it would be better if the color was reversed black backrought with red numbers.

Dude, dont matter if its an LT5 or LS7, they're all badass engines, but i'd personally take the ZR-1 over a new Z06 because thats my dream Corvette

Finally something I agree with the little bugger on. I would prefer a LT5 Vette myself, Its not a power thing or which is newer or faster. Its a symbol of what that car was at the time and let me tell you it was the take no prisoners bad ass road king. Sent cars home with there tail between there legs. It is like people who collect all cars. Sure there are going to be faster and more reliable cars out there but its a flash back to a time that , that car was the shit.

Finally something I agree with the little bugger on. I would prefer a LT5 Vette myself, Its not a power thing or which is newer or faster. Its a symbol of what that car was at the time and let me tell you it was the take no prisoners bad ass road king. Sent cars home with there tail between there legs. It is like people who collect all cars. Sure there are going to be faster and more reliable cars out there but its a flash back to a time that , that car was the shit.

yea, the zr1 was a bad ass vette, but you can make it a bad ass vette angain today... ls7!


btw, those vettes are my fav, the whole front flips up so you have access to the whole engine. (not much to the 'whole front' but still.

like everbody is saying, yeah it depends on a lot of things. I just figured I'd mention that gearing and transmission/torque convertor stall have a huge affect on overall performance when selecting a cam. Swapping in an extremely large cam in an otherwise stock car will probably be slower than stock. Making changes to the entire car to match everything, gearing, stall,intake, heads, cam, exhaust, to list few are what make a fast car. I also think it's kinda funny how everybody talks about cam swapping way more than head swapping which, while more expensive can make a bigger difference than a cam swap.

Viper, it sometimes isnt all about HP and all, i'd take a Zr-1 and LEAVE IT as a ZR-1 with the LT5. Kinda like owning a 1st gen Vette.. sure it'd be cool to put a better/new I6 but the fact that it has a pretty good/old I6 is that makes the difference.

Viper, it sometimes isnt all about HP and all, i'd take a Zr-1 and LEAVE IT as a ZR-1 with the LT5...

You wouldn't really NEEEEEEED to tune it up, the thing is fast even for today's standards. You take a collectable like that and modify it and you'll be totally killing the resale/collectable value of the car.

Maybe add a 150hp shot of N2o perhaps - something you could easily return to stock.

You definitely wouldn't have to modify your ZR-1 if you were one of the eight (I think) lucky people who got their hands on a "Black Widow" ZR-1. Those had LT5's tuned up by Doug Rippie - there were four different variations (or tuning packages), the full race version producing 525 hp.

Say what you will, but the ZR-1 smashed many speed records in its day, and as far as I know it still holds the record for being the only production vehicle to maintain a speed of over 175 mph for 24 consecutive hours. One thing about those motors is they were rock solid reliable. They could easily rev past 8000 RPM - the only reason they gave it a 7000 RPM redline was to keep the belt driven accessories from destroying themselves lol...

I know how fast the car is 400 HP aint something to be messed with especially since the low standard for cars is 250 HP and what is expected from high output cars is around 330, so yeah 400 is pretty good for today still.. so it isnt something thats exactly a thing of the past.