SMS CF Decals

I just tried to use a set of 1/24 Scale Motorsport carbon fibre decals I bought a few months back with no success at all. The decals are so thin and brittle that they just break into a thousand pieces as soon as I tried to slide them off. I tried everything I could think of to solve the problem with no luck at all. The decals just refuse to stay in one piece :banghead: . I understand that they are supposed to be thin so that they can conform to curves, but how are they supposed to do this if they break into pieces every time???

I tried a set of SMS Carbon Kevlar decals a while back while had similar problems, but not this bad. Is it something I'm doing wrong (I followed SMS' instructions exactly) or is it just the decals? Either way I doubt I'll buy another set :frown:

I get the same problem too. Requires a lot of water, and a hair dryer.

I put solvent on the part before applying the decal, and then more solvent on top after the decal is slid onto the part.
Let the solvent do some softening before fiddling with it and the decal is much less likely to crack... - Mark

Contact SMS, they had a bad batch a few months back.

They replaced mine at no charge.

Spitfire, just as freakray mentioned you should contact the manufacturer if you have any problems with a product. Just mentioning it in a forum doesn't always produce the results you are looking for and need. We did in fact have a bad batch awhile back and have been replacing any defective sheets out there free of charge. Just send me a private email to: [email protected] and lets see what we can do to make things right. And that goes for anyone else out there, if you have experienced a defective CF decal from Scale Motorsport I want to know about it so contact me personally. Regards, Matthew @ Scale Motorsport

Hey Matthew, didn't know you're a member here :)

Spitfire, just as freakray mentioned you should contact the manufacturer if you have any problems with a product. Just mentioning it in a forum doesn't always produce the results you are looking for and need. We did in fact have a bad batch awhile back and have been replacing any defective sheets out there free of charge. Just send me a private email to: [email protected] and lets see what we can do to make things right. And that goes for anyone else out there, if you have experienced a defective CF decal from Scale Motorsport I want to know about it so contact me personally. Regards, Matthew @ Scale Motorsport

I think that is very decent you of you. I am just about to start messing around with these type of decals, and I could have removed you from a list of suppliers, but now I will look at buying from you.

good to know this..!!

Hey freakray yup, I joined up about a month ago and have been just reading posts keeping a low profile. I felt it important that I finally speak up because most of the information that gets reported about manufacturers is never very accurate and we want to maintain the very best quality profile of all aftermarket manufacturers. Also, whenever someone gets a defective product from us we want to make it right as quickly as possible. I recently moved to London, England so a few development projects have not moved along as quickly as originally planned and managing inventory that's thousands of miles away has been a learning curve. All our inventory, warehousing and shipping functions remain in Connecticut. If anyone has any questions please let me know and thanks for speaking up! Regards, Matthew

what i do with decals, to make them slide real easy, is to add just a tiny amout of washing up liquid to my water, you only need a tiny amount. works great for big decals to get them into position.

I put solvent on the part before applying the decal, and then more solvent on top after the decal is slid onto the part.
Let the solvent do some softening before fiddling with it and the decal is much less likely to crack... - Mark

This is also what I do. SMS decals are the best, not the easiest :D

I also had the same problem with one of my sheets, I did not know they had defective sheets, I wasted about 90% of the sheet and threw the other 10% away

Spitfire, just as freakray mentioned you should contact the manufacturer if you have any problems with a product. Just mentioning it in a forum doesn't always produce the results you are looking for and need.
I didn't want to post a thread just to have a go at SMS for a fault with their decals, I thought maybe someone would be able to make a suggestion for how to fix the problem. Sorry if the tone suggested otherwise (I was pretty frustrated though)

I was already applying microset to the part before I prepared the decal, however the decals began to crack when I tried to slide them off the backing paper which is the step before placing them on the part. Thanks for the tip about washing up liquid though - i'll try that :)

Spitfire, just as freakray mentioned you should contact the manufacturer if you have any problems with a product. Just mentioning it in a forum doesn't always produce the results you are looking for and need. We did in fact have a bad batch awhile back and have been replacing any defective sheets out there free of charge. Just send me a private email to: [email protected] and lets see what we can do to make things right. And that goes for anyone else out there, if you have experienced a defective CF decal from Scale Motorsport I want to know about it so contact me personally. Regards, Matthew @ Scale Motorsport

Man, that is really nice to have the guys of the company do that! Do you have any pics you your new Hi-Definition carbon decals? :iceslolan

Also, there has been a big increase of manufactuers on here, so I guess they can hear our suggestions on new products! :grinno: :grinno:

Say you should know that we do not recommend using any liguid soap or "washing up" solution to pre-wet decals. Soap can actaully reduce the lifespan of the decal after it is applied. Futhermore the residue the soap leaves behind underneath the decal can over time damage the decal as well and retard the adhesion qualities the softening solution was designed to provide. Adding liquid soap is an old wives tail used for decals that were printed decads ago under different technological conditions. Just use clean clear water and a softening solution you like. Don't try to make things more difficult then they need to be, appllying CF decals is very easy if you just follow the simple instructions.

is there any precaution that should be taken to keep the decal for an extended amount of time before use? like putting it in a zip loc bag?

Really sorry to hijack this thread, but if the guy who works for SMS is now in London, will SMS supplies such as the fabric paint be soon out in the UK? I think www.grandprixmodels.co.uk does a line of SMS products, but they seem to run on a back order system.. Any plans to make it easier to obtain this stuff in the UK? Sorry to ask, always on the look out for good model suppliers in the UK,

Sorry, back to what the thread was about - SMS decals cracking up.

...and I could have removed you from a list of suppliers, but now I will look at buying from you.

good to know this..!!

To take SMS from your list of CF decal suppliers would be like modeling in the dark. Sure, you can still assemble the kit, but the end product is not something you would be pleased with.

Here's a quick example of what can be done with SMS decals.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/billyvia/enzo/DSCN4023.jpg

This is the Tamiya Enzo ENTIRELY covered in the new SMS hi-def CF decal...with only the hood, external Ferrari decals and fiddly bits remaining to complete it.

hth,
Bill

Man, that is really nice to have the guys of the company do that! Do you have any pics you your new Hi-Definition carbon decals? :iceslolan

Also, there has been a big increase of manufactuers on here, so I guess they can hear our suggestions on new products! :grinno: :grinno:

The hi-def decals are black and dark silver (mostly black) with a weaved texture. While I covered it with gloss on the Enzo, a light coat of semi-gloss would be PERFECT for chassis/etc. It would be really hard to capture the raised weave in pics....

hth,

Bill

is there any precaution that should be taken to keep the decal for an extended amount of time before use? like putting it in a zip loc bag?

Yes, and keep them away from sunlight. Controlling humidity and ultraviolet radiation are the 2 most important things for storing decals. Temperature (not too hot) is the third.

So in other words, keep in a cool, dry, dark place.

hth,
Bill

To take SMS from your list of CF decal suppliers would be like modeling in the dark. Sure, you can still assemble the kit, but the end product is not something you would be pleased with.

Here's a quick example of what can be done with SMS decals.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/billyvia/enzo/DSCN4023.jpg

This is the Tamiya Enzo ENTIRELY covered in the new SMS hi-def CF decal...with only the hood, external Ferrari decals and fiddly bits remaining to complete it.

hth,
Bill

Can't see any weaves, got a bigger picture?

the new hi def is really hard to see on 1:24 I had trouble with mith it on my pro mod. well not really trouble, but the weave is hard to see. even harder to photograph. great product to work with tho!

Can't see any weaves, got a bigger picture?

That's your monitor, not the picture.

I can see the C/F decal fine on my monitor.

It's hard to see at first, but once you do see it, you SEE it...everywhere.

That's your monitor, not the picture.

I can see the C/F decal fine on my monitor.

I cranked up the brightness to 100 and the weave was like a plain weave carbon fiber.

To take SMS from your list of CF decal suppliers would be like modeling in the dark. Sure, you can still assemble the kit, but the end product is not something you would be pleased with.

Here's a quick example of what can be done with SMS decals.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v633/billyvia/enzo/DSCN4023.jpg

This is the Tamiya Enzo ENTIRELY covered in the new SMS hi-def CF decal...with only the hood, external Ferrari decals and fiddly bits remaining to complete it.

hth,
Bill

That is simply astonishing!!! Is there a WIP on this???.

One question: Can SMS CF details be coated with tamiya laquer?

I wonder how painting over SMS cf with TS italian red would look, to produce a paint job like the 1:1.

2 things:

1. I've found other decals that are very delicate as well. Using warm water seems to make them more flexible, and less likely to shatter. This link might interest a few people http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT069_Decal-Warmer_Bamford/tnt069.htm

2. I purchased some decals and photo-cd's from SMS several months ago. I was sent the wrong photo-cd by mistake and Matthew immediately sent me the correct cd. I offered to send the other one back, but he told me to keep it. Clearly, that's great service, and the product is first rate.

Murray

F1mguy: I just wanted to say thanks for being so pro-active on the forums, I imagine it will ultimately do wonders for business!. It seems so rare that a supplier actually bothers to make themselves available from time to time direct to us modelers in a forum environment such as this.

It's a far cry from a post I saw recently on another forum where a customer (buying from another kit manufacturer) was asked by that manufacturer to NOT post anything on that specific forum about a problem he was having - without him having mentioned the forum at all! What the...! Obviously he did post it anyway, and no, I'm not telling you who the company was...

Do not store decals in zip lock bags unless you can get them "air tight" and that means using a vacuum bag system which most people do not have. If you need to store decals for an extended period of time, like more than a year just place some tissue or wax paper over the graphics side and lay them inside a heavey book. The weight of the book will keep them flat preventing them from curling and cracking the ink as well as keeping light out. The book should be kept in a relatively low humidity environment which is why you don't want to place them in zip lock bags which can take on and store moisture. That's it nothing more is required. Please keep in mind moisture and light over time are your worst enemy's so if you live in a humid environment like the south eastern USA you need to keep the "book" in an air conditioned room.

Mickbench, I am sorry to say that although I am in the UK for the next "3 to 5" our inventory and shipping functions remain in the USA. We were not allowed to ship over the Faux Fabrix Textured Spray Paint sorry about that! I will have two vending tables at this years Telford IPMS in November please stop by to say hello if you can.

Warm water can be of help when working with our decals or anyone elses for that matter. Now when I say warm I mean luke warm, not warm and not hot.

Beautiful jop on that Enzo Bill! that makes me proud!

And thanks for the feedback captain Mark!

Always good to see the actual manufacturers on the boards - Thanks F1Mguy for your continued excellent service. I always order direct from your website to here in the UK and the service and delivery time always astonishes me! Long may it continue...

That is simply astonishing!!! Is there a WIP on this???.

One question: Can SMS CF details be coated with tamiya laquer?

I wonder how painting over SMS cf with TS italian red would look, to produce a paint job like the 1:1.

Thanks...and nope. Figured everything shown in the WIP was already known or shown in one of the AFF FAQ's. I'll post completed pics once it's...uhm, completed!

ANY paint can be used, but the trick is to...

1. KNOW how your paint will react
2. SNEAK UP ON IT by taking very, very light coats.

I'm sure you could do a prototypical Ferrari paint job (i.e. F-40) by using light coats of TS8 (Italian red)...but at 1:24th scale, the texture would be HUGE once scaled up!

hth,
Bill

Beautiful jop on that Enzo Bill! that makes me proud!


Matthew,
coming from such an accredited builder (and now producer) as yourself, I humbly say thanks and also say thanks for taking the time and initiative for starting the company.

It's rare when you can point to a specific product and say that it changed the way you build, but like the packaging says "These ain't your father's decals!"

Bill

I greatly appreaciate all the feedback from everyone, good, bad and indifferent it does help us develop better products and improve our services becasue we do listen to your comments. And 99% of the storeis you here, unless from me directly are not accurate.

I won't always be able to respond to questions or remarks in this forum as quickly as some would like, so if anyone has a pressing issue that deals with Scale Motorsport products, please feel free to contact me directly at: [email protected]

I will usally be able to, but not always, respond within a few hours if not a few minutes if I am in the office.

Build On!