performance
skriFF
08-30-2005, 02:43 AM
Im new to fieros and I'm looking at buying an 87 GT with about 135,000 miles on it. I should be able to get it for about $1500, which would leave me with about $1500 to $2000 to modify it. I was looking at supercharging it but that costs around $3k or more. So now I'm looking at doing cam, p&p heads, exh, intake, ignition, fuel, possibly pistons and minor suspension upgrades.
Ive been searching the forums and cant find the answers so I figured I'd ask but my goal is to have around 225-250 hp when I'm completley done with it. Is it possible on my budget? And if so, what brands would you go with and where would you get them?
Oh and I forgot to say that its a 5spd.
Ive been searching the forums and cant find the answers so I figured I'd ask but my goal is to have around 225-250 hp when I'm completley done with it. Is it possible on my budget? And if so, what brands would you go with and where would you get them?
Oh and I forgot to say that its a 5spd.
ctesla
08-30-2005, 09:16 AM
you asked a double-edged question;
is it possible, yes.
is it possible on the budget, iffy.
depending on what you buy, what you do, how much you will need to put into a used car (doesn't matter Fiero) to get it road worthy, and keep emissions/inspection legal (if this applies to your locale).
a small block chevy swap would be least expensive for most power.
but, if you want to keep the 2.8L, then it becomes a little more expensive, and little more difficult to squeeze the HP from the 60degree.
do your research, before buying, and buy a stout engine (with the car), so most of your money can go to top end. bottom ends (if they are still together at the mileage you indicated) from GM are pretty stout, and can easily handle double the HP net that originally was listed for that specific engine. heads and manifolds, and iduction is where you want to dump your cash, to make it go fast.
squires turbo systems may offer something for the Fiero, and then for around $2K you can leave the motor stock, strap on a turbo, and worry about everything else later.
if no turbo, then intake, headers, hi-flow exhaust, roller cam and/or rockers, are quick easy bolt-ons that put out alot for their money.
make sure your combo's mix and match, otherwise you're throwing the money away. in other words, if you have set your goal @235HP, buy for this ONLY, do not go cheap on something, and then wonder why the car is falling on her face, or doesn't idle, et cetera.
if you have cam specs (this should be first consideration, even if not the first purchase, as everything else will go off this decision) of which one you are looking into, email me, and I can better assist with what you're looking to do.
the 2.8L has limited possibilities (as compared to MANY other GM and import powerplants), but components are out there, as well as websites.
and don't get discouraged; as I have seen the little Iron Duke's 2.5L four-cylinders putting out almost 3HP/cubic inch! however, that's WAY outta your budget, but just letting you remember; it IS possible.
hope this helps,
chris
nrt racing
[email protected]
is it possible, yes.
is it possible on the budget, iffy.
depending on what you buy, what you do, how much you will need to put into a used car (doesn't matter Fiero) to get it road worthy, and keep emissions/inspection legal (if this applies to your locale).
a small block chevy swap would be least expensive for most power.
but, if you want to keep the 2.8L, then it becomes a little more expensive, and little more difficult to squeeze the HP from the 60degree.
do your research, before buying, and buy a stout engine (with the car), so most of your money can go to top end. bottom ends (if they are still together at the mileage you indicated) from GM are pretty stout, and can easily handle double the HP net that originally was listed for that specific engine. heads and manifolds, and iduction is where you want to dump your cash, to make it go fast.
squires turbo systems may offer something for the Fiero, and then for around $2K you can leave the motor stock, strap on a turbo, and worry about everything else later.
if no turbo, then intake, headers, hi-flow exhaust, roller cam and/or rockers, are quick easy bolt-ons that put out alot for their money.
make sure your combo's mix and match, otherwise you're throwing the money away. in other words, if you have set your goal @235HP, buy for this ONLY, do not go cheap on something, and then wonder why the car is falling on her face, or doesn't idle, et cetera.
if you have cam specs (this should be first consideration, even if not the first purchase, as everything else will go off this decision) of which one you are looking into, email me, and I can better assist with what you're looking to do.
the 2.8L has limited possibilities (as compared to MANY other GM and import powerplants), but components are out there, as well as websites.
and don't get discouraged; as I have seen the little Iron Duke's 2.5L four-cylinders putting out almost 3HP/cubic inch! however, that's WAY outta your budget, but just letting you remember; it IS possible.
hope this helps,
chris
nrt racing
[email protected]
MrPbody
08-30-2005, 09:47 AM
The most economic way to improve performance has always been to increase displacement. It's a matter of crank and pistons to make your 2.8 a 3.1. That, combined with some good head work (on the large valve iron heads) and a good cam selection, can get you close. I agree, your budget is marginal.
Converting to ANY other engine family will blow your budget wide open. While it's true, you can build a small block pretty cheap, the kit, transmission mods and buying the core will use up your budget.
FWIW, there are a ton of parts in the GM Performance catelog for the 60 deg. engine. A light and tough powerplant, it can make the power you're after. You'll need to make some changes to the throttle body (increase) and injectors. You may or may not need to "chip" it, depending on what level of cam you select. Melling and Comp both offer a very good "torque" cam that, when installed 4 deg. retarded, makes an excellent performance cam.
If you're up to the changes needed in the fuel system, a 3.4 (FWD block) can also be bolted right in. The 3.4 uses the same heads as the 2.8 and 3.1, so you already have those. With larger valves and some port work, WOO HOO!
Be aware, the harmonic balancer is "Fireo specific". The others are balanced the same, but the timing mark is in a different location, as the "pointer" must be mounted on the opposite side (engine location).
Jim
Converting to ANY other engine family will blow your budget wide open. While it's true, you can build a small block pretty cheap, the kit, transmission mods and buying the core will use up your budget.
FWIW, there are a ton of parts in the GM Performance catelog for the 60 deg. engine. A light and tough powerplant, it can make the power you're after. You'll need to make some changes to the throttle body (increase) and injectors. You may or may not need to "chip" it, depending on what level of cam you select. Melling and Comp both offer a very good "torque" cam that, when installed 4 deg. retarded, makes an excellent performance cam.
If you're up to the changes needed in the fuel system, a 3.4 (FWD block) can also be bolted right in. The 3.4 uses the same heads as the 2.8 and 3.1, so you already have those. With larger valves and some port work, WOO HOO!
Be aware, the harmonic balancer is "Fireo specific". The others are balanced the same, but the timing mark is in a different location, as the "pointer" must be mounted on the opposite side (engine location).
Jim
skriFF
08-30-2005, 02:01 PM
Thanks a lot for the replys guys. I would really prefer if I could stay away from an engine swap, as I probably wont have the time it would take to pull the car all apart for that long. I still need it for a daily driver if possible.
Just for kicks, what would it cost to get a different motor and how long would it take me to put it in since you guys said that doing this would add the most power for the money.
So I guess my next consideration is cam specs. I don't want to do something completley radical and I dont really plan on adding nitrous or FI for now (on this motor atleast) I am, however, new to cam specs so I get pretty much lost when people talk about them. Any assistance you could bring me would be greatly appreciated.
I think my first mods will be better flowing heads, a cam, and intake/exhaust.
Just for kicks, what would it cost to get a different motor and how long would it take me to put it in since you guys said that doing this would add the most power for the money.
So I guess my next consideration is cam specs. I don't want to do something completley radical and I dont really plan on adding nitrous or FI for now (on this motor atleast) I am, however, new to cam specs so I get pretty much lost when people talk about them. Any assistance you could bring me would be greatly appreciated.
I think my first mods will be better flowing heads, a cam, and intake/exhaust.
MrPbody
08-31-2005, 01:17 PM
Installing a new cam will require removal. There's no room to get to the front.
Some judicious port work and larger valves wake those heads up nicely.
The 3.4 and some of the late 3.1s have a hydraulic roller cam system in them. Good stuff! Comp will grind you anything you want, for that setup. The catelog grind I recommend would be the 260H. 212/212 @ .050, .445" lift, 110 LSA. The power band listed is 1,000-5,000, but we've found if you install it retarded 4 degrees, it will REALLY pull well to 6,000. That's a "drop-in" flat tappet cam. The roller system requires a "custom" grind.
Some judicious port work and larger valves wake those heads up nicely.
The 3.4 and some of the late 3.1s have a hydraulic roller cam system in them. Good stuff! Comp will grind you anything you want, for that setup. The catelog grind I recommend would be the 260H. 212/212 @ .050, .445" lift, 110 LSA. The power band listed is 1,000-5,000, but we've found if you install it retarded 4 degrees, it will REALLY pull well to 6,000. That's a "drop-in" flat tappet cam. The roller system requires a "custom" grind.
skriFF
09-01-2005, 05:36 AM
Hmm, well some of that I understood and some of just went straight over my head lol. How much would it cost approxamently, and isn't it true that I can port and polish the heads myself. My friend did it to his A20 accord motor for his prelude and he did a good job. Also, how long would it take to instal the cam myself, assuming that I've read up on it and have a good idea of how to do it, and assuming that I dont have a lift or anything to get the motor out. Any recomendations on how to get the motor out?
Sorry for all the question, but before I commit to this car I want to get all the info and have no suprises along the way. Thanks.
Sorry for all the question, but before I commit to this car I want to get all the info and have no suprises along the way. Thanks.
ctesla
09-01-2005, 09:24 AM
Hmm, well some of that I understood and some of just went straight over my head lol. How much would it cost approxamently, and isn't it true that I can port and polish the heads myself. My friend did it to his A20 accord motor for his prelude and he did a good job. Also, how long would it take to instal the cam myself, assuming that I've read up on it and have a good idea of how to do it, and assuming that I dont have a lift or anything to get the motor out. Any recomendations on how to get the motor out?
Sorry for all the question, but before I commit to this car I want to get all the info and have no suprises along the way. Thanks.
P-Body's right. a 260 (from most any manufacturer) will keep you streetable, and still fuel economic, unless you get into her.
but, even with your budget, it sounds as if you are mild to moderately mechanically inclined. the cam will be a project!
lifting the car, and leaving the engine/trans/suspension frame on the ground; or pulling the rear deck, then pulling the engine is the only way of removing/replacing a cam.
so maybe start with items that will show adequate advantage, with minimal labor (that way you can enjoy your Fiero on the street; not in the garage, as a dust collector).
a Jet or HyperTech (or other company)E-Prom chip
head work- which can take time, but does not involve engine yank.
aftermarket intake and TBI/or injectors.
ignition system.
and when you want to do the cam- figure out then, if you want to swap in a motor. if not, then you are firmly commited to the engine you own, and plan while you have it out, to take care of other items:
cam, water pump, timing gears, etc.
PBody is right on with the cam- buying a streetable one and retarding it, can give you a little "lope" soft off@idle, but give you extra "shoot&skoot" on the back end of your redline.
even while buying your regular bolt-ons, keep in mind this cam and other projects, as the CAM IS the heart of the engine; so if this is a swap you are definitely doing, don't go with limited ECMchips or intakes which wouldn't assist once the bigger cam goes in, and then you have to upgrade what you bought, creating a double purchase.
hope this helps
Sorry for all the question, but before I commit to this car I want to get all the info and have no suprises along the way. Thanks.
P-Body's right. a 260 (from most any manufacturer) will keep you streetable, and still fuel economic, unless you get into her.
but, even with your budget, it sounds as if you are mild to moderately mechanically inclined. the cam will be a project!
lifting the car, and leaving the engine/trans/suspension frame on the ground; or pulling the rear deck, then pulling the engine is the only way of removing/replacing a cam.
so maybe start with items that will show adequate advantage, with minimal labor (that way you can enjoy your Fiero on the street; not in the garage, as a dust collector).
a Jet or HyperTech (or other company)E-Prom chip
head work- which can take time, but does not involve engine yank.
aftermarket intake and TBI/or injectors.
ignition system.
and when you want to do the cam- figure out then, if you want to swap in a motor. if not, then you are firmly commited to the engine you own, and plan while you have it out, to take care of other items:
cam, water pump, timing gears, etc.
PBody is right on with the cam- buying a streetable one and retarding it, can give you a little "lope" soft off@idle, but give you extra "shoot&skoot" on the back end of your redline.
even while buying your regular bolt-ons, keep in mind this cam and other projects, as the CAM IS the heart of the engine; so if this is a swap you are definitely doing, don't go with limited ECMchips or intakes which wouldn't assist once the bigger cam goes in, and then you have to upgrade what you bought, creating a double purchase.
hope this helps
Automotive Network, Inc., Copyright ©2026