Zc-vs. -sohc Vtec

Ok a lot of people are going with the ZC engine for more power and I dont blame them anything is better than 70 hp. I had planned on going this route too untill I was offered that cheap SOHC VTEC. But my question is why do people do the ZC swap 130 hp when you can get a SOHC VTEC with 125 hp and get a lot more after market parts for it? I now about the HKS cams and the jackson racing supercharger but places like AEM you have to crossrefrence things- I have heard you have to get B-series adj cams and have to machine them to fit for a ZC.

I would just like all the ZC peoples opinoin on it

Thanks
Chad

Why I have a ZC -
1 - I got a good deal on my whole setup for my ZC.
2 - if I ever did choose to tune it, I think it would be a little easier and more precise since it is a DOHC and not SOHC, but I don't really know anything about that stuff yet.
3 - Plus I don't have to ghetto rig an OBD-1 into my non-OBD car. Drop and go!

My $0.02 :confused:

people go with the ZC because it costs the absolute bottom line least. the sohc v-tec can cost a couple of $$$ more depending on the route you go.

the sohc v-tec does drop right in...i just did it this weekend. just like the ZC...no rewiring. HOWEVER, i just learned a valuable lesson...getting a wiring harness and using the 92-95 ECU works like sh*t. i ended up sticking my ECU back in and now i'm going to wire up a v-tec controller. it is actually cheaper to go the v-tec controller route.

if you have a DX you will have to do the MPFI swap no matter which swap you do.

here is the reason i decided against a ZC. i tried to order one from several places (including Nippon) and none of them warrenty the ZC anymore. I've heard the b.s. excuse that it's because the ZC won't pass emissions in some states. i say that is b.s because they still warrenty the b16 and it has the same emissions issues. these people just don't want to tell you they don't want to replace anything on the ZC because they know it's gonna break.

don't get me wrong, i have heard good stories about ZC's but not as many as bad.

do people really have that much trouble passing emissions with the ZC? I heard that it wasn't that much of an issue, but maybe I'm wrong...

Originally posted by ci5ic
do people really have that much trouble passing emissions with the ZC? I heard that it wasn't that much of an issue, but maybe I'm wrong...

that is why i said "b.s. excuse" ;) :D

ami

Originally posted by LadyNRedSi



don't get me wrong, i have heard good stories about ZC's but not as many as bad.

Yeh thats why i didn't choose the ZC cause i've been hearing bad stories on them. Its a good choice if you're on a low budget though. So is the sohc v-tec. If anything i would just choose the sohc v-tec. The ZC and the sohc v-tec specs are almost identical.

awsome info guys and Ami keep me posted I may have bug you a lot when I do mine. Hit me back let me know how its working and who you race.

Thanks
Chad

Hey Ami what cartoons do you watch?

Chad

I just ordered a harness for my stock Si wiring harness that will convert it to OBD-1. There is nothing janky about it, and now I can run the P28 which will allow me to run the right fuel curve to the D16Y8 and let me tack it up to 7500rpm stock.

Here we go.....

ZC is a 10+ year old engine, this is why you hear people having problems with them. A SOHC Vtec is alot newer and usually do not have as much wear.

A ZC will pass a pipe test but will fail a visual inspection "engine is stamped ZC which is not a US engine"

ZC has more tourque then a soch vtec, this is why alot of people like them. Either way both are pretty close to eachother in the performance factor

hey- did you guys know that there is a SOHC ZC and a DOHC ZC. i thought it was only a DOHC motor....but my friend did a swap...and he put a SOHC motor in his 88 civic dx hatch....and the engine block said ZC. :rolleyes: weird.....i'd never heard of it before...anyways....about the discussion i would say that the DOHC ZC is better for turbo....but the D16z6/y8 is better for bolt ons because of the the huge aftermarket support for the civic ex. you are gonna be doing a lot more searchin for performance parts for the zc. ;)

Here is some more info about the different ZC's available..

http://asia.vtec.net/topics/zc.html

Nice info Shawn, to bad they dont have anything about the ZCG engine

Originally posted by CWBETB
Nice info Shawn, to bad they dont have anything about the ZCG engine

Well i thought ZCG is another name for b16a? Thats what i've been told on here when it was PH.

Originally posted by mellowboy
Well i thought ZCG is another name for b16a? Thats what i've been told on here when it was PH.
Yeah..that is what I read too..here ==> http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/engine.html :cool:

Originally posted by civic1991
I just ordered a harness for my stock Si wiring harness that will convert it to OBD-1. There is nothing janky about it, and now I can run the P28 which will allow me to run the right fuel curve to the D16Y8 and let me tack it up to 7500rpm stock.

that is the route i went. just be sure you get a distributor on the y8. i just learned the hard way that the Si (d1626) distributor does not work with the swap. you'll get a code 4 on your ecu. my y8 didn't have a distributer on it so i tried mine and it didn't work. other than that, it dropped right in.

as for what cartoons i watch....SIMPSONS! i get east and west coast through dish network. i catch 4-8 episodes a day...i drive jer crazy :evillaugh. i'm also a huge Marvin the Martian & Taz fan. my first house was wall to wall with collectables & framed pics. when we bought the new house i thought i'd be nice and leave everything in boxes and not torture him any longer :)

ami

Why i got the ZC....lets see...
1. Itz JDM y0, gotta have the tizight JDM bomb Shiznit in your ride!!

2. Mine came with a hella bangin red painted valve cover, thats so type-r, its almost GT-R !!!!!

3. the guy who sold it to me told me Id smoke McClaren F1's, I cant wait till I line up with one at a light.....He's gonna go down man!!!!




Ok, that was my stuNNa alter ego, now for the serious reasons :D

If i ever do tune it, two cams are better than one..Less complicated wiring...also I got mine when i was pretty new to the whole scene, and thats what a lot of people were doing at the time, so i didnt further research my options. But if you can get a really good deal on the d16y8, then i would say by all means go for it.

Mike

ok so if any one remebers me and ami had this debate a while
back....a long while back..
i would still after everything said and done, still go ZC...i have driven both engines in 4g hatch body's....the zc run's better....more torque...
less rev time to power...and faster at the track...
i dropped the zc into my hatch as it arrived from nippon.....same clutch
....all i replaced was the h2o pump and th T-belt...
it has passed an emission test with no problems at all...and i drive it every day reving it to 6 grand to shift...and it spends lots of days down at the local track running the 1/8th...:licker:
i still wouldn't mind havin a B...mind you..
but from the sound of everthing that went into putting the sohc into ami's car i think i would rather deal with a dual install than a sohc .
.02 more for ya...

WTF? all thr troubles i had? other than hooking up the wrong distributor (trial and error) i had no troubles. yanked one out and dropped the next in.

i could have done it in a day or maybe had loose ends to tie up on day 2 if i really pushed to have it done. however, i planned to do the swap in 2 days as it was. so spending 30-45 mins on it on day 3 and have it fire up was no big deal.

sohc v-tec is much better. it is made up of all civic parts. you don't need a list of what parts from what cars when you want to change the oil or the timing belt. the d16y8 or d16z6 have more aftermarket parts avalible.

a USDM engine you can just drop in. a JDM engine you need to rebuild.

like i said earlier, i have heard good ZC stories but, not as many as horror.

ami

zcg is the b16 :)

Ami i couldnt agree with you more on that one---makes sense to me

Chad

Originally posted by sikvic
zcg is the b16 :)

Yeh thats what i thought.:D

About the ZCG

Its a term I have only heard on the internet, and only from Americans.
I first saw it on an article somewhere that was dated around 1991.
So I think its nothing more than bad rumour started by someone who heard about a DOHC VTEC engine being sold in Japan, but had no idea what it was, so assumed it was a VTEC version of the ZC, and so named it the ZCG.
I have then later heard that the ZCG was an engine made in limited numbers for race homolgatin, but then thats still totaly unconfirmed.


And I can see how easy the confusion could be made, the ZC and the B16a do look a little similar, and if you look closely at both engines, its quite clear that they are very similar.
Infact a ZC head looks an awful like an old B20 head from an Si prelude, the same engine the B16a is based on.

Hey LadyNRedSi,
Have you had any O2 senser problems? does the P28 give any O2 codes?

Originally posted by civic1991
Hey LadyNRedSi,
Have you had any O2 senser problems? does the P28 give any O2 codes?

no O2 problems because you use a 4 wire O2. the only code i got was crank angle sensor. which now i know is due to using the wrong ECU. easy fix :)

ami

i swapped in a d16 on my hatch, i love it, i helped a friend swap in a zc.
i think either way is good, the d16 has more a/m support so thats what i used. i ve got I.H.E. cam and cam gear and a zex kit. Next im swapping in an si tranny and new clutch and probaly an msd or accel ignition.
then maybe i'll be done......nah...lol


gunnmen01

why get a d16z6/y8 over your stock motor it seams liek alot of work for a nothing to me

ummm...one word.

VTEC

:)

that and 125 horses stock. plus is California legal

Originally posted by spy54
why get a d16z6/y8 over your stock motor it seams liek alot of work for a nothing to me

it's not a lot of work. it was hella easy. out with the old and in with the new. only had to extend 8 wires.

107 hp to 127 hp doesn't seem much of a gain....until you get in and drive. of course it's no 160 hp b16. but not everybody does swaps just to hit the tracks. i'm not gonna lie and say "i will never take mine to the track." however, i didn't just do it to race. i did the sohc v-tec swap because it was cheaper than the b16, dropped in just as easy as a ZC, and with 12,000 miles it was more reliable than my d16a6 with the mystery head gasket problem.

it seemed like a lot of work to me too. then we did it and i was like...wa-hoo! lets do it again :D. this time i planned to do the swap in 2 days. now i know we could do it in one day easy.

ami

Swaps kick ass ;)

Ami do you have a write up anywhere on your swap, also to add to this clash of the cams, how about mini-me?

Also Ami, if you dont have a write up could you just post a little cap about what parts from what engines you used (i.e wiring harness, ecu, distro, etc etc etc.)

if you go HERE (http://www.4thgenerationcivic.com/Staff/LadynredSi/SOHC%20v-tec.htm) i wrote down a little bit of what was done each day.

as for parts there are 2 ways to go. i started one way and now am switching the other way.

d16a6 (pm6) ecu
v-tec controller
d16a6 distributor

or

sohc v-tec (p28) ecu
wiring harness
sohc v-tec distributor

i tried the second way first except we tried using my d16a6 distributor. learned the hard way it doesn't work. right now i have it set up the first way, just no v-tec controller hooked up. i'm at a split in the road. i'll either get a v-tec controller or the right dist. i'm not 100% sure which way yet. 'm a girl...i can never make up my mind ;) :lol2:

now, to let you know some of the stock parts i kept from my Si:
intake mani
fuelrail
injectors
tranny

i also used my Si aftermarket:
header
intake
cam gear

if you have any other questions....other parts i forgot to mention...or what i would do different to make the swap go quicker...please feel free to e-mail me: [email protected]

ami

is 750 a good price for sohc-vtec engine, wiring harness,ecu, and distributor?

Spy thats pretty high, what is it the d16z6 or d16y8?

Originally posted by spy54
is 750 a good price for sohc-vtec engine, wiring harness,ecu, and distributor?

that is really good for engine, harness, and ecu. i looked around on the west coast and most places were $750 for a 45,000-ish engine alone.

ami

Bah, I still say 750 is high :D There is a z6 with everything still on it for 500 in merced, CA(central CA). It all depends on how good shape the motor and parts are, I would say that unless its really really nice dont pay more than 600, there are plenty of kids with civics dieing to get rid of their d-series motors.

Just taking up space.

my friend has a ZC in his hatchback and he can beat SOHC V-TEC's all day long!!!