Girdle trouble
eillob
08-28-2005, 12:23 PM
Im adding a girdle to support the main caps in my motor. With this blower on here I wanna be sure I don't split the block. The one I ordered online has presented a problem. The problem is with it in place the oil pick up tube will not clear the girdle. If anyone has ever seen a DSS main support bracket you know what Im talking about. The side of the girdle that the tube is on is notched. This one I have isn't and neither is any of the other girdles I have found on line, except the one from DSS. So my question here is why the hell would anyone make a girdle without this modification.
Surely im not the first person to run into this problem. Is there a different pick up tube available that I need to buy? Or do I need to return this one and just buy one from DSS?
Surely im not the first person to run into this problem. Is there a different pick up tube available that I need to buy? Or do I need to return this one and just buy one from DSS?
351wStang
08-28-2005, 01:28 PM
To be honest with you a girdle wont save your block. The best it will do is hold everything somewhat together for you in hopes of not damaging your rotating assembley. Atleast this was all I heard when I was considering putting a girdle on my stock block.
SkylineUSA
08-28-2005, 01:33 PM
/i would just grind it.
GTStang
08-28-2005, 04:46 PM
#1. Girdles don't add strength cause the weakest part of a 302 is the main webbing in the block center and a girdle isn't gonna fix that. All a girdle will do is prevent you from spilling cranks and rods onto the street saving them. But if you internals are stock why bother you can buy stockers again cheaply.
#2. Things like this are a common problem wit main girdles. When I use one I use Canton's cause I can get their girdle, pick-up, and pan and know that everything will work and I don't need to clearance a Canton pick-up and pan for a D.S.S./Trickflow etc.., girdle.
#3. Bend the pick-up, grind the girdle, get a different pick-up can all be possible solutions. Your gonna have to figure it out honestly cause there is no standard design when it comes to girdles and this is a very common problem. Do what you have to, to get it so the pick-up sits right in the pan.
#4. Just so you know your block should be lined bored with the girdle your using. Many people don't but it is how it's suppose to be done.
#2. Things like this are a common problem wit main girdles. When I use one I use Canton's cause I can get their girdle, pick-up, and pan and know that everything will work and I don't need to clearance a Canton pick-up and pan for a D.S.S./Trickflow etc.., girdle.
#3. Bend the pick-up, grind the girdle, get a different pick-up can all be possible solutions. Your gonna have to figure it out honestly cause there is no standard design when it comes to girdles and this is a very common problem. Do what you have to, to get it so the pick-up sits right in the pan.
#4. Just so you know your block should be lined bored with the girdle your using. Many people don't but it is how it's suppose to be done.
silverstangs
08-28-2005, 05:05 PM
#1. Girdles don't add strength cause the weakest part of a 302 is the main webbing in the block center and a girdle isn't gonna fix that. All a girdle will do is prevent you from spilling cranks and rods onto the street saving them. But if you internals are stock why bother you can buy stockers again cheaply.
#2. Things like this are a common problem wit main girdles. When I use one I use Canton's cause I can get their girdle, pick-up, and pan and know that everything will work and I don't need to clearance a Canton pick-up and pan for a D.S.S./Trickflow etc.., girdle.
#3. Bend the pick-up, grind the girdle, get a different pick-up can all be possible solutions. Your gonna have to figure it out honestly cause there is no standard design when it comes to girdles and this is a very common problem. Do what you have to, to get it so the pick-up sits right in the pan.
#4. Just so you know your block should be lined bored with the girdle your using. Many people don't but it is how it's suppose to be done.
I couldn't have said that better..........
#2. Things like this are a common problem wit main girdles. When I use one I use Canton's cause I can get their girdle, pick-up, and pan and know that everything will work and I don't need to clearance a Canton pick-up and pan for a D.S.S./Trickflow etc.., girdle.
#3. Bend the pick-up, grind the girdle, get a different pick-up can all be possible solutions. Your gonna have to figure it out honestly cause there is no standard design when it comes to girdles and this is a very common problem. Do what you have to, to get it so the pick-up sits right in the pan.
#4. Just so you know your block should be lined bored with the girdle your using. Many people don't but it is how it's suppose to be done.
I couldn't have said that better..........
eillob
08-28-2005, 05:17 PM
Well correct me if Im wrong but I thought cap walk is what caused the cracking in the main webbing. It was explained to me that if the girdle was used you can effectively stop cap walk.
http://www.dssracing.com/mainsupportsystem.html
http://www.dssracing.com/mainsupportsystem.html
GTStang
08-28-2005, 11:25 PM
Well correct me if Im wrong but I thought cap walk is what caused the cracking in the main webbing. It was explained to me that if the girdle was used you can effectively stop cap walk.
http://www.dssracing.com/mainsupportsystem.html
All main caps are anchored to the main webbing, the girdle is just tieing all the main caps together which means the girdle is still anchored to the weak main webbing, so your still only as strong as the weakest spot of the main webbing of the block still. So you have not increased the strength of the main webbing at all.
But you say what about the fact that by tieing them all of the main caps together you spread out the force over the entire main webbing.... Well it doesn't work like that, if your putting enough abuse on the weakest main cap to start to get it to walk this is the best you could hope for(it doesn't even work this well in actuality). It will spread the forces created from the cap that starts walking to the rest of the main caps evenly. But now that added extra force is going to find and take and start to take out the next weakest main cap. Now you have the force of two main caps trying to walk instead of one. So now you have more force spread out over less main caps, basic snowballing effect. Sure you could say there is the magical extra amount between the weakest and second weakest. But that could be nothing and at best a small gain of total abuse the block can take.
I like D.S.S. products and don't have a problem with them but they are just like any other company, they advertise to sell.
They advertise that there level 20 CNC block(stock block) can withstand x amount of hp which is way more than what is commonly accepted for a stock Ford 5.0 block. The bottom line is the 302 main webbing is thin and it breaks and no amount of CNC-ing is going to improve that. But they advertise it...
http://www.dssracing.com/mainsupportsystem.html
All main caps are anchored to the main webbing, the girdle is just tieing all the main caps together which means the girdle is still anchored to the weak main webbing, so your still only as strong as the weakest spot of the main webbing of the block still. So you have not increased the strength of the main webbing at all.
But you say what about the fact that by tieing them all of the main caps together you spread out the force over the entire main webbing.... Well it doesn't work like that, if your putting enough abuse on the weakest main cap to start to get it to walk this is the best you could hope for(it doesn't even work this well in actuality). It will spread the forces created from the cap that starts walking to the rest of the main caps evenly. But now that added extra force is going to find and take and start to take out the next weakest main cap. Now you have the force of two main caps trying to walk instead of one. So now you have more force spread out over less main caps, basic snowballing effect. Sure you could say there is the magical extra amount between the weakest and second weakest. But that could be nothing and at best a small gain of total abuse the block can take.
I like D.S.S. products and don't have a problem with them but they are just like any other company, they advertise to sell.
They advertise that there level 20 CNC block(stock block) can withstand x amount of hp which is way more than what is commonly accepted for a stock Ford 5.0 block. The bottom line is the 302 main webbing is thin and it breaks and no amount of CNC-ing is going to improve that. But they advertise it...
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