Mclaren Question for a Newbie 2

hey guys, been gone for a while, and look at the progress here!!

I've post this somewhere, but didn't get a reply, assume no one saw it.

Peleton, congrats on the visit, would i be wrong to say that GM is like your biggest idol?

any way guys, i have a question for ya, was reading the thing on the website you guys created for the re-encounter of the convention, it was mentioned in there that the McLaren F1 doesn't have a Flywheel? can you explain that?

Does any one have a photo of how does the mclaren's door open at the roof bit, i mean does it have a little bearing in there or something, hope you guys know what i mean.

and also this has sort of puzzled me for a while now, what is the difference between the LM and the normal GTRs? from the photos i have they all the same, but prehaps you can tell me the different, exteior any way, i've seen some photos of Ralph lauren's car, appears there is no key hole?! only a start switch, so i guess if any one break into the car they can drive off?

thanks guys :)

"difference between the LM and the normal GTRs?"

There are only 72 cars in the F1 production ,there is 5 LM model 3 Gtr model, other just a standard F1 .diffrent is the front & rear down force kit including the full fiber material,anti-roll bar and full racing padel ... ( and they had to lower the horse power to fit the race regulation!)
http://lrg.zorpia.com/0/796/5095149.59eaf5.jpg
ps: anyone please crrect me , if i wrong

GTRs inlets were restricted to comply with race regultions. LM motor is unrestricted.

GTR bodies had minor differences as the teams/factory experimented with different ways of channeling air for cooling and aerodynamics.

GTR has 2 seats and fuse/control panel and fire suppression system to driver's right. LM has 3 seats and no control panel or fire suppression system like in the GTRs.

GTR has roll cage. LM does not.

And when F1 Monster says the LM is unrestricted, he means it. It actually develops MORE horsepower than the regular car, but cannot reach as high of a top speed because of the downforce kits. It is also a bit lighter so it is much faster in low speed runs. That's a scary thing to say.

Here;s a few things that caught my eye in Driving Ambition

F1 road car:
627bhp@7500 rpm
651NM @6500 rpm
7500 rpm redline
235/45/Zr17 front
315 rear

F1 LM:
680@7800
703NM@4500 -- more torque at a lower rpm :)
redline 8500 rpm --- must be fucking amazing
The tranny is the same except they call the transverse unit a racing unit, and it has straight cut gears.
275/35/zr18 front
345/35/zr18 rear
and the GTR Race type brake cooling system.

thanks guys!

Oh yeah, special mention to Peleton too, his new posted photos solved my second question regarding to the McLaren Door hingers,

but what about the Flywheel and the keyhole thing?

thanks guys!

Oh yeah, special mention to Peleton too, his new posted photos solved my second question regarding to the McLaren Door hingers,

I actually took those specifically with you in mind, but I also knew there weren't any great shots of the floating around and so they were needed. Glad you noticed them!

but what about the Flywheel and the keyhole thing?

I honestly can't answer the flywheel question, which is why I haven't. It could be a very simple explanation, but I'd rather not guess that and be wrong.

The LM does have a key that unlocks the door:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1/th_3522913-O.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1/3522913-O.jpg)
Credit drewwtms for the photo.

...but you are correct that the LM doesn't have a keyhole on the chassis plaque like a road car would.

If there is another keyhole somewhere in the interior, I have never seen it. One of the unique features of the normal F1s keyhole is that it locks the gear lever in place - that's one of the things that helps prevent theft, and I would assume it also forces you to park in gear which is never a bad thing. Its likely this was left off of the LM to save weight, but also because the GTRs didn't have a keyhole there either.

The LM has this extra panel of switches ahead of the right passenger seat.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v482/Peloton25/McLaren%20F1/10867610-L.jpg
Credit dugmar for the image.

On it you will notice the one encircled in orange with a light below it that reads "Ignition". I would assume that flipping that switch down and then pressing the magic red button near the gear lever is all that separates one from running off with the car once they get inside. If I'm wrong on this, hopefully Mr Selldorff or one of the guys from Turner Motorsports can correct me.

>8^)
ER

Hey Peleton,

Thanks man! I really appreciate all your efforts to help me solve some questions. the problem is most of the people on other forums just spead bs about these cars to make them sound like a mclaren expert, since only a handful of people actually know them.

the people here are great, especially you. big thanks from me!

Your welcome man! :thumbsup:

Occasionally we are left to speculate on certain things because the info isn't really available, but hopefully we do a good job of keeping the BS out of here. As I said in my 'F1 experience' thread - one of the things that drives me is learning and telling the real story. I'm just glad that people still find it interesting enough to listen. There are always a few surprises with the F1.

>8^)
ER

Peloton25: Just a question ....

Are japan Hold 3 GTr model ? the one from Rosso Meg , the 2 of Super GT series ?

ps: Btw here is a LM layout .... :icon16:
http://lrg.zorpia.com/0/728/4662464.1d2b43.jpg

Japan may have a few GTRs, but the one from Rosso Mag (GTR #13R) is headed for Australia and should be there soon.

The other short tail GTR (#14R) that raced with that car in 1996 under the LARK livery has vanished. It may still be in Japan, or may have gone elsewhere. Someone obviously has it stashed away though.

Only one of the two longtail GTRs (#25R) that raced in the JGTC is still in Japan - its the one that is still competing. The other one (GTR #19R) came to the USA in late 2003 and is privately owned now. Prior to coming to the USA it was refitted with it's original LARK livery that it wore at the 1997 24Hrs of LeMans. The owner's name may be Kevin Crowder, but I have never been able to confirm that. The car is serviced and maintained by Hudson Historics in New York. It may be stored there as well.

Incidentally, the image you posted is cool - I have had it for a while, but there are two features in the picture that prove it is a GTR and not an LM. Lets see who can spot them first? :iceslolan

>8^)
ER

you got me again :P :D thanks for show me the light ...(I just follow the pic title)

I am guessing it's these two items, as I don't have a reference picture handy:

1. Holes in rear windows indicating they are lexan, not glass?

2. Front intakes?

1) Roll cage - LM's don't have a roll cage.
2) Lack of front fender flare. Which would make it a 95 GTR.

Well done, I missed the roll cage entirely, and I didn't know that there was a year that did not have the fender flares.

Actually, I missed the front fender flares. :redface: ...good job Archangel! :thumbsup:

The rollcage was correct.

The other thing I was looking for was the small duct on the side of the car ahead of the rear wheel. You will find one on that side of a GTR, but the LMs don't have it.

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/D7/E5/8943063-a37c-02800168-.jpg

There is a larger duct on the opposite side that is found on both the GTRs and the LMs, but that's not the side of the car they are showing in that drawing.

http://a8.cpimg.com/image/C4/58/25651908-cd03-02000180-.jpg

As for the holes in the rear windows - you will find those on XP1 LM which was the LM prototype, but I haven't seen them featured on either of the two production LMs that we have photos of. I guess they chose not to use them. I do believe that the side windows, at least the ones on the doors, were still made of lexan. I'm not sure about those quarter windows, but they probably were too.

>8^)
ER

arent there pics of the black LMs?

I don't think so. There are pictures if black GTR's and black road cars with the HD kit. They would give you an idea of what they look like.

arent there pics of the black LMs?

Pictures of the black LMs (that some say don't even exist) and the third Papaya LM that went to Brunei have never been seen publicly. :(

>8^)
ER

I received a PM from an anonymous participant here who also mentioned that the lower front fascia/nosepiece of the car in the drawing does not match the LM, and he is exactly correct. The LM has the larger pair of front grille openings similar to the '96 GTRs and the later '95 design. The car in the drawing has an earlier design for the GTR nosepiece.

After noticing that, I also realized that the drawing is missing the duct in the front compartment cover that LMs have. :uhoh:

http://a0.cpimg.com/image/D4/E5/8943060-35e3-028001E0-.jpg

Man... that's the last time I try throw out a Pop Quiz in here. :lol2:

>8^)
ER

http://a3.cpimg.com/image/D7/E5/8943063-a37c-02800168-.jpg



http://a8.cpimg.com/image/C4/58/25651908-cd03-02000180-.jpg



>8^)
ER

Interesting side window treatment. Could have sworn Mr. Seldorff's LM had the single pane sides vs. the sliding pass through vs. the normal split window

Regards

I was told the car comes with both and they are interchangeable. The sliding windows in those shots came in boxes with LM3 when Frank got the car and he never had them put on. I think drew told us that.

Edit: Found the post where Drew mentions the side windows.

http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1757824&postcount=28

That thread refreshed my memory to the fact that when LM3 did the Gumball Rally it had those sliding windows fitted to it. Also, either Drew or Frank confirmed one time that those LM shots in front of the McLaren trailer were indeed of LM3. They were surprised I had them. :naughty:

>8^)
ER

and also this has sort of puzzled me for a while now, what is the difference between the LM and the normal GTRs? from the photos i have they all the same, but prehaps you can tell me the different, exteior any way, i've seen some photos of Ralph lauren's car, appears there is no key hole?! only a start switch, so i guess if any one break into the car they can drive off?

thanks guys :)

In my search for info on the sliding side windows, I came across this old thread which contains a great explanation of the visual differences between a GTR and an LM:

how can u tell if its LM Spec? (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=122359)

>8^)
ER

Thanks Peloton!

Sheesh. All this knowledge and you haven't written a book yet? I think it's time you seriously consider that. I'd be willing to contribute my photos of the 97 GTR's to your project Peloton. You are the only one I would trust to give the most details on the cars. We have plenty of resourceful people here with photos and photos of items of their own that could contribute.

Driving Ambition gave us the premise for the car. You have the knowledge to differentiate them.

Regards

The flywheel thing is kinda explained in Driving Ambition. The car hooks directly up to the transmission. Saves weight and eliminates rev lag. Don't know how it works thoguh.

... I didn't know that there was a year that did not have the fender flares.


The 95 GTR's ran without fender flares in the 95 BPR series. A handful ran them in the 95 LeMans (just verified that West and Harrods are a couple that didn't). Hence the LM celebrating the LeMans win due to the fact that the Ueno Clinic car had flares.

(Even more controversy is that the Harrods car ran without flares. So technically all 5 LM's should not have flares if they wanted to stick with their plans of celebrating all 5 Lemans finishes. Oh well the LM's look better with flares. )

Most with the exception of 1 returned to racing without flares for the remainder of the 95 season.

96 started with the revision to include flares and some revisions to the nose. It wasn't until Nurburgring that the roof scoop became more prominent, soon to be adapted by the majority of the teams.

Regards

Might help...
http://www.lunaticfringe.org/vwfox/mod/flywheel.html

I don't think so. There are pictures if black GTR's and black road cars with the HD kit. They would give you an idea of what they look like.

yes I have seen an F1 with HD kit myself.

posted pics here a while ago. Believe it was #038. it was now grey

The funny thing about that drawing posted is that it was actually put in DA under the F1 LM. (Was just perusing through DA last night.) So I can see the reason for the question/posting.

And in fact the drawing of the 96 GTR in DA is of the earlier 96s. The latter ones had the distinctive roof scoop.

another thing is f1 lm's didnt have fuel doors on either side

what's fuel doors dude?

another thing is f1 lm's didnt have fuel doors on either side

Are you sure about that? :p

http://a2.cpimg.com/image/DE/B4/52216542-6251-02000180-.jpg

http://a9.cpimg.com/image/5D/24/21602909-89e2-02000155-.jpg

Did you mean on "both" sides?

>8^)
ER

either side, both sides, its the same thing, isnt it? but yes both sides its what i was trying to point out, the drawing shows fuel doors on either side of the car, f1 lm has it only on the left side, as shown in your photo. sorry just worded it wrong

a bit off topic here, but where can i find a cool avatar of a 97 gtr?

either = one of the sides.

I never understood that duct on the LM --- doesn't that unbalance the aero? What is the purpose?
Same goes for the duct on the front - what does that lead too?

i have a couple questions that i cant find answers for. why do some f1 roadcars have foglights? and why do some have high mount mirrors? and in the case of ralph lauren, at least one of his has both foglights and high mount mirrors. are they owner preferred options or what?

either = one of the sides.

I never understood that duct on the LM --- doesn't that unbalance the aero? What is the purpose?
Same goes for the duct on the front - what does that lead too?

duct in front is for front brakes, that is if your talking about the duct in the middle of the radiator ducts in the bumper