1999 Crown Vic AC

Suddenly my Crown Vic is pouring really hot air out the a/c vents when the controls are set to Air conditioning.

Any ideas?

Blown fuse, relay, refrigerant leaked out, low pressure cut out switch, clutch wiring bad, diode bad. Is the compressor running when you turn on the A/C? Start with that information and post back. Thanks.

Yes, the compressor is spinning. I checked the fuse with a voltohmeter and that looked okay.

When the A/c is on it feels like the outside air is being heated up then blowing out the vents. It is definitely hotter than just outside air.

Pardon my lack of using the proper term but, the tall black cylinder seems to feel cool when the a/c is engaged. After shutting it off I hear a gassy sound from that area.

I'd appreciate being as descriptive as you can as I've never worked on a car's a/c before. I'll leave any freon issues to someone who knows what they are doing and has the right tools but, I can check for loose hoses, bum connections etc.

I really appreciate your help.

John Keely

It sounds like the blend door motor is hung in the heat position. There is a small motor on top of the A/C housing behind the glove box. This controls the heat or cold air that is blown into the car. Since the compressor is working, I am going to assume the refrigerant charge is OK. It is possible the switch in the dash has gone south and not changing the blend door.

Is there a way for me to test this from under the hood or inside the car without taking the dash apart?

Is there a way for me to easily replace this switch myself?


Many thanks - your help is appreciated.

This car has the Automatic temp control system. Does this affect the diagnosis? DOes that who panel have to go if one switch is misbehaving?

Thanks

Start with this test. There is nothing to dis-assemble yet. :naughty:


Electronic Automatic Temperature Control Module Self-Test

The EATC module self-test will not detect concerns associated with data link messages like engine coolant temperature or vehicle speed signals. A NGS tester must be used to retrieve these concerns.
The EATC module self-test will detect concerns in the system control functions and will display hard diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) in addition to intermittent diagnostic trouble codes for concerns that occur during system operation. The vehicle interior temperature should be between 4°-32°C (40-90°F) when carrying out the self-test. If the temperatures are not within the specified ranges, false in-car temperature sensor DTCs will be displayed.
The self-test can be initiated at any time. Normal operation of the system stops when the self-test is activated.
To enter the self-test, press the OFF and FLOOR buttons simultaneously and then press the AUTOMATIC button within two seconds. The display will show a pulse tracer going around the center of the display window. The test may run as long as 30 seconds. Record all DTCs displayed.
If any DTCs appear during the self-test, follow the diagnostics procedure given under ACTION for each DTC given.
If a condition exists but no DTCs appear during the self-test, refer to the Symptom Chart Condition: The EATC System Is Inoperative, Intermittent or Improper Operation.
To exit self-test and retain all intermittent DTCs, push the blue (cooler) button. The control will exit self-test, retain all intermittent diagnostic trouble codes and then turn OFF (display blank).
To exit the self-test and clear all DTCs, press the DEFROST button. The vacuum fluorescent display window will show 888 and all function symbols for one second. Then, the EATC control assembly will turn OFF (display blank) and all DTCs will be cleared.
Always exit the self-test before powering the system down (system turned OFF).
Intermittent DTCs will be deleted after 80 ignition switch ON cycles after the intermittent condition occurs.

I ran the diagnostic and got a "24".

Thanks!

John Keely

The 024 hard fault is for a blend door problem. Now it is time to tear apart and check the operation of the blend door and wiring. :evillol: Are you going to do it, or have it done?

Well, I guess it depends.

If I have to tear the entire dash out to do it - that may be getting in over my head. If it is a matter of undoing some screws and light disassembly / reassembly I'd go for it.

Like I said I've never done major work on a car but, I am pretty handy and mechanically inclined.

All I have are basic tools - nothing specific to automotive work.

What would you recommend?

As a start, you can pull the glove box out and look up in the top rear of the hole. There should be a little motor in there. Turn key on and see if you can feel, hear or see the motor moving. If the motor is moving, the blend door is probably broken and requires some work. If it is not moving, then it requires electrical diagnosis.

I think I can do that much. Any tips or tricks for getting the glove box out?

Many thanks for your ongoing help it is very much appreciated.

John K

Just look at how it is installed. There may be a few screws that hold the inside portion in. The door should drop down when the little straps are removed. Some of the inside portions just pull out. Just look at it before you grab a Sawzall. :evillol:

I'm going to pull the glove box this weekend.

Once I'm in there what/how can I check the motor for the blender to see if that is the problem or if it is the blender door itself. Are there contacts I can clip 12 volts to to see if it works out of the car or ??

Is the blender motor replaceable by just going through the glove box opening or.....

Many thanks,

John Keely

Easiest way to check is to feel it while the temperature control is moved. If you can feel the motor working, try it again while looking at the little space under it to see if the door is moving. It is hard to see the door rod though, really close clearance. By any chance, has anyone dropped anything down the defroster vents? If so, it can drop all the way to the door and block it from moving. Good luck.

Okay, glove compartment came out without resorting to sawzall.

On the botton right is what appears to be a vacuum actuated door. The actuator and door move fine.

On the top rear left of my view through the glove box

Click here for a pic of what I see looking inside the glove box to the top left at about the 10 o'clock position.


http://www.re-source-online.com/connector.jpg

I do not feel any vibration when resting my hand on it with key on, motor off and a/c on. Wiggled the connector slightly to insure it's on tight.

Is that the offender?

Short of calling on our friend the sawzall is there any way to replace this without pulling the dash?

Many thanks,

John Keely

It is held on with 2 or 3 screws.(Book shows 4). They say to remove the dash. You might be able fo feel around in there nd find the mounting bolts. If not, time to remove dash. Not a lot of room to get in there. You might want to get a test light and see if current is going to it when the a/c is engaged. If you want the test, here it is. :naughty:
As an afterthought, Have we checked the fuses yet? :screwy:


PINPOINT TEST A: DTC B1249: BLEND DOOR FAILURE
CONDITIONS DETAILS/RESULTS/ACTIONS
A1 CHECK THE ACTUATOR CLOCKWISE OPERATION (FULL COOL)




EATC Module C227 and C228


Connect a jumper lead between the EATC module connector Pins C228-26, Circuit 246 (P) and C227-2, Circuit 54 (LG/Y). Connect a second jumper lead between the EATC module connector Pins C228-13, Circuit 245 (BR/LG) and C227-3, Circuit 57 (BK).


Does the blend door actuator motor drive clockwise?
Yes
GO to A2.

No
GO to A3.
A2 CHECK THE ACTUATOR COUNTERCLOCKWISE OPERATION (FULL HOT)

Connect a jumper lead between the EATC module connector Pins C228-13, Circuit 245 (BR/LG) and C227-2, Circuit 54 (LG/Y). Connect a second jumper lead between the EATC module connector Pins C228-26, Circuit 246 (P) and C227-3, Circuit 57 (BK).


Does the blend door actuator motor drive counterclockwise?
Yes
GO to A8.

No
GO to A3.
A3 CHECK CIRCUIT 246 (P) FOR A SHORT


Electronic Blend Door Actuator C282


Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C228-26, Circuit 246 (P) and ground.


Is the resistance reading greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to A4.

No
REPAIR Circuit 246 (P) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
A4 CHECK CIRCUIT 245 (BR/LG) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C228-13, Circuit 245 (BR/LG) and ground.


Is the resistance reading greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to A5.

No
REPAIR Circuit 245 (BR/LG) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
A5 CHECK CIRCUIT 246 (P)/298 (P/O) FOR AN OPEN

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C228-26, Circuit 246 (P) and the electronic blend door actuator connector Pin C282-7, Circuit 298 (P/O).


Is the resistance reading less than 5 ohms?
Yes
GO to A6.

No
REPAIR Circuit 246 (P)/298(P/O) for an open. TEST the system for normal operation.
A6 CHECK CIRCUIT 245 (BR/LG)/208(GY) FOR AN OPEN

Measure the resistance between the EATC connector Pin C228-13, Circuit 245 (BR/LG) and the electronic blend door actuator connector Pin C282-8, Circuit 208 (GY).


Is the resistance reading less than 5 ohms?
Yes
GO to A7.

No
REPAIR Circuit 245 (BR/LG)/208(GY) for an open. TEST the system or normal operation.
A7 CHECK THE ACTUATOR OPERATION
Remove the electronic blend door actuator; refer to Section 412-04.


Electronic Blend Door Actuator C282


With the actuator drive shaft disengaged from the temperature blend door, drive the electronic blend door actuator full hot; refer to Step A1.

With the actuator drive shaft disengaged from the temperature blend door, drive the electronic blend door actuator full cool; refer to Step A2.


Does the blend door actuator drive both clockwise and counterclockwise?
Yes
REPAIR the temperature blend door for a blocked or binding condition. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
INSTALL a new electronic blend door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.
A8 CHECK THE FEEDBACK POTENTIOMETER TOTAL RESISTANCE

Drive the electronic blend door actuator full cool; refer to Step A2.

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pins C227-6, Circuit 436 (R/LG) and C228-9 Circuit 438 (R/W).


Is the resistance reading between 5,000 and 7,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to A13.

No
GO to A9.
A9 CHECK CIRCUIT 436 (R/LG)/600(DB) FOR AN OPEN


Electronic Blend Door Actuator C282


Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C227-6, Circuit 436 (R/LG) and the electronic blend door actuator connector Pin C282-6, Circuit 600(DB).


Is the resistance less than 5 ohms?
Yes
GO to A10.

No
REPAIR Circuit 436 (R/LG)/600(DB) for an open. TEST the system for normal operation.
A10 CHECK CIRCUIT 438 (R/W) FOR AN OPEN

Measure the resistance between the EATC connector Pin C228-9, Circuit 438 (R/W) and the electronic blend door actuator connector Pin C282-5.


Is the resistance reading less than 5 ohms?
Yes
GO to A11.

No
REPAIR Circuit 438 (R/W) for an open. TEST the system for normal operation.
A11 CHECK CIRCUIT 436 (R/LG) FOR A SHORT

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C227-6, Circuit 436 (R/LG) and ground.


Is the resistance reading greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to A12.

No
REPAIR Circuit 436 (R/LG) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
A12 CHECK CIRCUIT 438 (R/W) FOR A SHORT

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C228-9, Circuit 438 (R/W) and ground.


Is the resistance reading greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
INSTALL a new electronic blend door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR Circuit 438 (R/W) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
A13 CHECK THE FEEDBACK POTENTIOMETER LOW SIDE RESISTANCE

Drive the electronic blend door actuator full cool; refer to Step A2.

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pins C228-9, Circuit 438 (R/W) and C227-18, Circuit 437 (Y/LG).


Is the resistance between 250 and 1,500 ohms?
Yes
GO to A16.

No
GO to A14.
A14 CHECK CIRCUIT 437 (Y/LG) FOR AN OPEN


Electronic Blend Door Actuator C282


Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C227-18, Circuit 437 (Y/LG) and the electronic blend door actuator connector Pin C282-1.


Is the resistance reading less than 5 ohms?
Yes
GO to A15.

No
REPAIR Circuit 437 (Y/LG) for an open. TEST the system for normal operation.
A15 CHECK CIRCUIT 437 (Y/LG) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C227-18, Circuit 437 (Y/LG) and ground.


Is the resistance reading greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
INSTALL a new electronic blend door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR Circuit 437 (Y/LG) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
A16 CHECK THE FEEDBACK POTENTIOMETER HIGH SIDE RESISTANCE

Drive the electronic blend door actuator full cool; refer to Step A2.

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pins C227-6, Circuit 436 (R/LG) and C227-18, Circuit 437 (Y/LG).


Is the resistance reading between 3,500 and 6,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to A17.

No
INSTALL a new A/C electronic blend door actuator. TEST the system for normal operation.
A17 CHECK CIRCUIT 436 (R/LG) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C227-6, Circuit 436 (R/LG) and ground.


Is the resistance reading greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to A18.

No
REPAIR Circuit 436 (R/LG) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
A18 CHECK CIRCUIT 438 (R/W) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C228-9, Circuit 438 (R/W) and ground.


Is the resistance reading greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
GO to A19.

No
REPAIR Circuit 438 (R/W) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.
A19 CHECK CIRCUIT 437 (Y/LG) FOR A SHORT TO GROUND

Measure the resistance between the EATC module connector Pin C227-18, Circuit 437 (Y/LG) and ground.


Is the resistance reading greater than 10,000 ohms?
Yes
INSTALL a new EATC module. TEST the system for normal operation.

No
REPAIR Circuit 437 (Y/LG) for a short to ground. TEST the system for normal operation.

Just 50 easy steps right?...chuckle.

I'll assume my pic shows I've found the beast.

I did check fuses for a/c but, per chance is there a separate one for this motor...or is it powered by a different fuse than the a/c?

I've decided to sacrifice my knuckles for the $300 for cracking open the dash.

I'm going in............

Is it possible to remove just the top of the dashboard and get to this little fella or am I looking at pulling the steering wheel and the whole instument panel.

Any tips? I can't see anywhere to pop the top of the dash.

Thanks,

No easy way to do it. :uhoh: Just remember where everything came from. :eek: I will tie a rope to ya. If you get ate by the beast, yell nad I will jerk you out of the cavern. :lol2: If you are careful, you can remove just enough so the dash tilts back on the seat and does not have to be completely removed. The steering column is held up by 4 bolts and can be dropped down without removing it completely. Not a lot of fun though. :headshake

What book might you recommend that will walk me baby step by baby step through the dash removal and reinstallation process?

Since I'll probably save $300 in labor on the job I figure it's worth $20 to know the right way to do it as opposed to just jumping in. I have visions of the airbag blowing up as I remove the last screw (chuckle).

Thanks,

John Keely

What book might you recommend that will walk me baby step by baby step through the dash removal and reinstallation process?

Since I'll probably save $300 in labor on the job I figure it's worth $20 to know the right way to do it as opposed to just jumping in. I have visions of the airbag blowing up as I remove the last screw (chuckle).

Thanks,

John Keely

Haynes or Chilton will give you a good enough explanation as how to remove dash. Tried to get pics to post. Site will not allow pics. PM me with your e-mail. Will send text to ya. It is another 50 easy step removal and 50 easy step installation.