Crash and Burn

It is impressive that Igor and the mods who run the site have built this community from the ground up, but when you demolish two of the foundation members of a forum, and lock the thread that should be an explanation of your actions, it sends strong signals that the priority of this forum is not for the members, but for moderators to exercise some kind of personal revenge.

Because Igor closed the thread prematurely, and without allowing the community to figure out what exactly is going on, I will continue discussion of the events that transpired here.

To the moderators and admins: what do you think you are doing? Do you think this is helping the forum? By adding a moderator who has maybe 10 posts in our forum, and who no established members of the E/T/L forum know at all?

Kris (LandoAWD) was one of the greatest assets of this forum. He has never posted misinformation, he constantly gave his personal time to answer questions at a level far below his own, and he even threw in an entertaining comment or two in a few threads to keep people awake, and make me laugh out loud on occasion. Kevin (95gsxracer) is the same way--he gives selflessly of himself to help new DSMers, but when an idiot starts talking back, you expect him to grin and bear it and just say, "Well, thanks for at least reading the post I just made to help you, and I'm sorry you think I'm a jackass. Is there anything else I can do for you?" Good luck trying to run a worthwhile operation without strong opinions and emotions being expressed.

JoeWagon and Jake may have deserved getting banned, if they were really as fed up with this forum and demanding being banned as much as you say. But did they randomly just go haywire and decide to self-destruct a forum in which they have several thousand posts, and to which have dedicated several years of their lives? No way.

It is the utterly juvenile running of this site that is resulting in the senior and more knowledgable members running for the borders. Igor, you appoint your buddies as mods and admins, post huge links on main pages about your own amateur racing exploits, and you allow far too many morons and scumbags to jump in and out of the forums like prostitutes with second grade literacy levels. Do you really think anyone cares that you won a go-kart race? Do you think you are helping yourself by banning two senior members of one of the most technically advanced forums on this site, just because it came into your mind and you have a mouse button that works?

Considering that you all seem to enjoy banning people out of personal vendettas against them, I expect to get banned for this post. But in a truly free and worthwhile automotive community, a member bringing up the issue of why the site owner's finish in a severely amateur race headlines the automotive news section for months afterward would be accepted as a valuable and comical insight. And the suggestion that banning three of the four most contributing members of this forum is a purely asinine and childish maneuver would be met with applause.

The bottom line is that you all are driving away the thinking, experienced, members of this site who know what they are talking about. I understand that your site is geared toward idiotic pre-teens trying to learn what cars are, and that the many of the sheep on this forum blindly follow moderators and high-posters simply because of a pretty-colored font or large number by their names. But honestly, you are ruining this forum.

Its no surprise at all. Im surprised they stuck around that long, I sure didnt.

I totally agree with joemathews, I think you guys are getting a little too trigger happy. Since Joe left, all I have seen is locked threads and banned senior members. Lets leave a discussion forum open so we can figure out what the hell is happening and whats going to happen... if anyone cares anymore. I'm going to dsmtuners.com, anyone else?

I don't know, but I'd like to stick around here. If it weren't for this forum, I wouldn't be a DSMer. I'm on here every day reading up on everything, and try to contribute as much as I can. I am really speechless about what's happening right now. We are losing our best people.

kris is a moderator on Dsmtuner. I'd be over their more often if i could stand some of the people their. I think that forum is well constructed, and managed. but i don't feel the same vibe over their. Maybe becasue I only have 19 Reputation points and i dont want to go out of my way to get more!!

It's really annoying that these threads keep getting closed. Maybe we just shouldn't question our Nazi overlords. I'll stay on cause I like helping people out.

They just want it to blow over. Out of sight out of mind.

I love how these threads are opened with insults on things that happen mostly do to the members your celebrating. Jake tried to remove his stickies as well when he found he would not be returning as a moderator and after all has been involved with him were the bad guys for wanting some answers?. I was the one that locked the other thread not igor and it was done because we came to a decision and There was nothing left to add. Joewagon locked the thread about Jake and was locking every thread about it after that?. So what we are nazi and he isn't for doing the same. Like has been said before, we hope you guys stay but if your not happy here, no one is forcing you to stay. There was a need for change. None of the mod crew is trying to hide anything and we are more than happy to discuss things with you guys if you can hold back the insults. This forum can take any direction you guys like as long as you stick around and help rebuild it. Just my :2cents: on the subject and I will leave it open but understand cause of the way it was opened if it gets closed and I am sure if you open up another without the slandering comments towards AF and would just like to discuss whats going on we will not lock that thread.

This forum can take any direction you guys like as long as you stick around and help rebuild it.

Well its kind of hard to rebuild a house without the proper foundation. So that means we get stuck at a dead end.

And since FormulaLT1 and Josh, came this forum has went down hill. I know you guys are doing your job but damn.:disappoin In true honesty this fells like a dictatorship of some sort. I really fell uncomfortable here now.

I am just temping in here, This is obviously not going to go smoothly right off the bat. We just were forced to change the forum leadership in here and were expecting this type of reaction. We are trying very hard to deal with any problems that may come along but I am not banning everyone that has said negative things about AF and am trying to listen to you guys on your thoughts but we are playing the hand that was delt us. I am not going to force you guys to do anything but I ask you follow the guidelines and just try to give us time to let things return to normal if thats possible ofcourse you can blame the current mod staff for the current feeling in here but it was the reasoning and time frame we came in that is giving off that vibe not our actions.

Woah, i havent been to the eclipse forum in awhile. Mainly because my RS is just sitting in the garage collecting dust. Shit does seem to have hit the fan though. I dont think its fair that people seem to be blaming the mods that have just been appointed to maintain the site. I mostly refuent the OT area because there is never anything going on the in Ram forum and i dont use my eclipse anymore.

From what ive read in the E/T/L forum people seem to hate josh just because he is the new mod. Im sure it was his plan all along to find a way to get Jake and Joe off their mod posistions so he could take over......very doubtful. Someone needs to be a mod around here and he is it. Its like having a new member who is willing to learn only he has "mod" power.

i heard all the crap going down and i thought i would drop a line...

i was one of the guy's that dedicated a lot of time into the shape of this forum. due to work constraints i have not had anywhere near the time i used to have on my hands. but when i left, or should i say slowed down posting, this was a nice place to come and DSM BS. i'm not sure how many people are living thier lives in here now, but it's time to move on with things. people come and people go.

it's ubsurd to me that Lando got banned. i don't know the whole situation, but that guy knew his shit. last time i checked this was a forum and views got experssed here. the bottom line is that this is a place to learn about our love/hate DSMs. fuck the stupid attiudes and let's talk about CW, boost leaks, the latest DSM tech, and making honduh's and muscle cars marvel in the perfection of a 4g63 with a big ass turbo on it.

i heard all the crap going down and i thought i would drop a line...

i was one of the guy's that dedicated a lot of time into the shape of this forum. due to work constraints i have not had anywhere near the time i used to have on my hands. but when i left, or should i say slowed down posting, this was a nice place to come and DSM BS. i'm not sure how many people are living thier lives in here now, but it's time to move on with things. people come and people go.

it's ubsurd to me that Lando got banned. i don't know the whole situation, but that guy knew his shit. last time i checked this was a forum and views got experssed here. the bottom line is that this is a place to learn about our love/hate DSMs. fuck the stupid attiudes and let's talk about CW, boost leaks, the latest DSM tech, and making honduh's and muscle cars marvel in the perfection of a 4g63 with a big ass turbo on it.


Amen Reverend.

Yes, Amen to Vince's comment. But shit, they've banned 3 of the 4 most knowledgable members of this board. Looks like the technical discussions that used to happen are going to dry up, and we're going to have a lot of unanswered Problem Diagnosis threads and questions about venting our bovs :rolleyes:

For the record, JoeWagon did not just close all of the threads about Jake. It's not like they were working together to rip people off--he made a final post, that if there was new information to contribute, to let him know and he would re-open the thread. I can't think of a more professional moderator than Chris.

I am sure if you open up another without the slandering comments towards AF and would just like to discuss whats going on we will not lock that thread.

None of my OP was slanderous. Look up the definition of the word if you don't believe me. I expressed an opinion about the site, and supported it with true information.

Once again, congratulations for destroying the forum.

If members or moderator break the guidelines and purposely go out of there to get themselves banned. There is nothing that can be done and yes I am well aware of what slander means and you have a excellent one sided agrument your running right there. Your right , the whole moderation team and adminstration is out to cripple the Eclipse forum :rolleyes:, accept whats done or don't and move on. Either way its done now and there is no turning back. Joewagon made it perfectly clear to me in the moderator corner that he was going to lock any and all threads related to Jake and no, not to protect Jake but to prevent it from taking over the forum. Like the current issue's are. So lets take a note out of Chris's book and move on.

John

This forum can take any direction you guys like as long as you stick around and help rebuild it.

My suggestion is that you stop banning everyone with superior technical knowledge.

But then again, who needs a tech site where the most knowledgeable member knows how to run 11's on pump gas in a full weight daily driver.

And we certainly don't need memebers that can drop a 6-bolt in a 2g with their eyes closed.

Who really wants LandoAWD that is one of the best at solving "off the wall" problems.

Yeah, we don't need those guys :rolleyes:


We just were forced to change the forum leadership in here and were expecting this type of reaction.


I'm probably going to get banned for this, but what the hell.

Good job Captain Obvious, did you really think everyone was going to start cheering when you banned the 3 people with the most knowledge? These were three guys that you sat around hoping would reply to your threads.



I'm going to dsmtuners.com, anyone else?


Already there, brother! Might want to check out www.dsmtalk.com if you're bored.



From what ive read in the E/T/L forum people seem to hate josh just because he is the new mod.


No one hates Josh, we are just concerned because the last 2 mods were technical "goo roos" and Josh has extrememly limited experience with DSM's. Most of his posts are focused in the off topic / street racing / stress release forums.

This particular forum is the most technically base on the site and the members that made it that way have been banned (except for GSXRacer). If you ban him, or he leaves because of this crap, I know for a fact that this forum will become a ghost town.

Last damn time I am going to say this Lando can come back at anytime he likes. I would like a apology for his comments and a promise to watch his further behavior but he will not do this. As for Joewagon he asked to be removed from this site and was out to destroy it and Jake was banned for trying to delete posts and misusing what mod powers he was left with. There were so many issue's with Jake I can't even believe there is anyone seeing his side of this but he may have been the greatest guy in the world but he was asked to stop acting in a certain manner and doing the things he was doing and refused. No one is getting banned as long as they stay somewhat civil but I am not going to keep defending myself. If someone has something worth while to ask go right ahead or leave as you stated your going to and were sorry to lose you like I stated.

Please don't make me lock this thread too, keep your comments civil here and I don't ban people for no reason.

I'm sorry to hear some of you feel this way. Although some of your comments are misplaced because you dont know all the facts about what went on with Jake or Joe behind the scenes. Just look at what Jake did with one of our threads in the perf. section about turboing an RS/GS Eclipse. He deleted his info and his reason for the deletion was, and i quote "Because i can". If you want to give your loyalty to him and follow him wherever he goes that's fine, i can't force you to stay here. But i can assure you my main goal here will be to get this forum back on track the best i can. I've been talking with a member of dsmcentral.com who also happens to run a local DSM speed shop near me, and i've asked him to come in and check out the forum and hopefully help out with the technical advice that i wont be able to give. I'm working hard to find a way to get you guys the forum that you expect to have as far as technical info goes, and i wont stop any time soon. Just be patient, and the reason that last thread of Jake's was locked was due to a post that was to vulgar to show and also had to be deleted, therefore there was no other choice to allow something like that to be posted again in that thread, it was done.

Like i said i'm working hard to get you guys what you want, just be patient.

Thank you,
Josh

Let it rest people.


JoeWagon and EclipseRST both made it pretty clear they didn't want anything to do with AF any more.
Both did and said some very stupid things, and now they have to live with it.


The Eclipse/Talon/Laser is not its own special, unique technical forum.
It is a small part of a much wider comunity, and if you stopped whinnig and got out and had a look around you might see that.
JoeWagon might have had a fast car, but it certianly wasn't the fastest street legal on AF.
And while Jake might have known how to do the odd engine swap, his knowledge was tiny compared to some of the members around here who have been working on cars profesionaly longer than he has been alive.


The new mods are not "new" either, they have all been memebers here for a long time, and have earned thier position.
They don't need to know anything about Eclipses Talons or Laser's to effectivly moderate these forums.
They only need what they have, and thats experiance and authority given to them by Igor.


AF is not a great free democracy.
It is an internet forum run on a private server and owned by a single individual.
It has rules that if you want to belong have to be followed.

One of those rules is you do what the moderators say.

Right now Im saying no more of these threads.
They achive nothing, prove nothing and are a good way to get banned.

There is no "Crash and Burn"
2 people out of over 300,000 fucked up and were delt with.
Get over it and move on.