sl horsepower?

A question for you more knowledged people... how high can i realisticly get a sl as far as hp and torque? after the intake/exhaust/suspension mods, would a supercharger or a turbo be better? i know the answers might be in here somewhere, so sorry...

I would say that an NA could get to 270s hp. It all depends on what you want. Of course the car will have more hp with a turbo/sc but with that comes other things you need, not to mention money and time. For me I will probably keep my car NA, its just not worth it for me to add a turbo or sc. But I will spend money upgrading exhaust, intake and visual upgrades. Its all up to you.

Yeah, I'm betting IPO and Hotshot have ALOT more than 270. It all depends how much time and money you want to put into it. There is an NA upgrade Bible in the FAQ, but eventually, you will probably want to look into Forced Induction, as many others do.

There are a half-billion threads about supercharging and turboing an NA in here alone. So I'd recommend doing some searching. There is also a bit in the FAQ on both options. And lastly, www.3si.org has an entire forum devoted to Forced Induction SLs and base models, so check that out as well.

Yeah, I'm betting IPO and Hotshot have ALOT more than 270. It all depends how much time and money you want to put into it. There is an NA upgrade Bible in the FAQ, but eventually, you will probably want to look into Forced Induction, as many others do.

There are a half-billion threads about supercharging and turboing an NA in here alone. So I'd recommend doing some searching. There is also a bit in the FAQ on both options. And lastly, www.3si.org has an entire forum devoted to Forced Induction SLs and base models, so check that out as well.


i think what has been said in this thread is accurate. You should be able to get around 270 hp while staying N/A and not doing anything internally to the engine, but your looking at a lot of mods. I think 300 hp is obtainable with 11:1 pistons and head work. However, to get much more out of your car, you will either need to obtain nitrous, a supercharger, or a TT conversion.

They Also Have Camshafts Which I Would Rush To Get If I Had Enough Dough

Yeah, I'm betting IPO and Hotshot have ALOT more than 270. It all depends how much time and money you want to put into it. There is an NA upgrade Bible in the FAQ, but eventually, you will probably want to look into Forced Induction, as many others do.

There are a half-billion threads about supercharging and turboing an NA in here alone. So I'd recommend doing some searching. There is also a bit in the FAQ on both options. And lastly, www.3si.org has an entire forum devoted to Forced Induction SLs and base models, so check that out as well.


just a little, I ran 11.4 @ 131 MPH on an NA block and internals. 11.4 @ 132.97 on an NA block with TT internals.

just a tad more than 270 ;)

i have an sl and i can safely say i have about 245 horses in it now. I believe you can get it a bit higher than 270 at the crank. the mistake i made is i lost torque off the line by haveing a custom exhaust made .... it was 3" from the cat to the actualy muffler which was mounted 3 ft from the tail pipe. it turned out i didnt have enough back pressure. at high rpm's i gain horses but at low rpm's i lost torque.

get some cam gears, 2.75" catback, intake, 360cc fuel injectors (vr4 stock), exhaust manifolds, high flow cat, under drive pulleys, and other junk basics. remember, you shouldnt run forced induction on a n/a motor if it isnt tuned correctly!

and also, dont think that hp and torque is what makes ur car faster.
lighten up ur car by takin out the internals.
also ..... different 5spd trans with larger 1st and 2nd gear ratios means
quicker off the line starts

^ yea I was gonna' say, you shoulda slimmed down to 2.75" cat back or ever 2.5"

Im getting 3 inch because im getting the long headers soon so that would be alright then...? Also if you ever would want to convert to TT or SC 3inch would be good for that.

i have an sl and i can safely say i have about 245 horses in it now. I believe you can get it a bit higher than 270 at the crank. the mistake i made is i lost torque off the line by haveing a custom exhaust made .... it was 3" from the cat to the actualy muffler which was mounted 3 ft from the tail pipe. it turned out i didnt have enough back pressure. at high rpm's i gain horses but at low rpm's i lost torque.

get some cam gears, 2.75" catback, intake, 360cc fuel injectors (vr4 stock), exhaust manifolds, high flow cat, under drive pulleys, and other junk basics. remember, you shouldnt run forced induction on a n/a motor if it isnt tuned correctly!

and also, dont think that hp and torque is what makes ur car faster.
lighten up ur car by takin out the internals.
also ..... different 5spd trans with larger 1st and 2nd gear ratios means
quicker off the line starts

Couple things. The 3s DOHC was overrated at 222hp. You are basing you 245 number on starting at 222. The DOHC is realistically no higher than 210hp stock. Most decently modded DOHC's dyno in at 180hp which is right around 220hp. There is one highly, highly modified NA over on 3si that is making 190 whp, which would be right around 240 at the crank. Also not one single 3s NA is making enough power and moving enough air to need 360 injectors. The largest injectors that a NA will ever need is 240's, like from a DSM. Thats even a stretch considering NA's run extremely rich as is. Cam gears also arent that beneficial with these cars. Aftermarket cams however can help immensly but then you are getting into some serious cash. Also an intake frees up some restriction but you will be lucky to see 1-3 hp on a NA. Exhaust will free up some power but the stock catback is actually pretty good. The stock downpipe and cat is the most restrictive part to the exhaust. Long tube headers, or stock manifolds(which are pretty good) with an aftermarket dp and a test pipe/highflow cat will improve the overall power band.

Honestly if someone were to build a 270 crank hp NA it would not be very streetable. You would need at least 11:1 pistons, if not 12:1, then you are getting into higher octane fuel, timing control and possibly stand alones, race cams with upgraded valve springs, raised rev limit(stand alone of course would make that easier;)), underdrive pulley, aftermarket ground wire kit, dp/headers, test pipe/high flow cat, straight thru single shot exhaust, upgraded ignition, and the list goes on.

the only thing i dont get is How can a ground wire kit actually give you power?...

I forget the full explanation but basically it maintains voltage better. Your car will run better and more efficient on 13.5 volts than it will on 13 volts. Thats put in the simplest terms possible. Plus I am tired and its late.:p

the only thing i dont get is How can a ground wire kit actually give you power?...

If you have bad/dirty ground connections, a grounding kit will help with the grounding path giving the plugs more power.

well then...we'll see if it actually works

a grounding kit wont really do anything for you. however if u get an ignition kit then it will. if your running 12.5 volts then its the best u can be running at.

and i deffinetly think that 270 crank hp would be streetable and na u def wouldnt need diff comp ratios and pistons. just a buncha bolt ons and also the right touch should get the stock 222 to 270. thiink about it, intake, full exhaust (headers, test pipe, catback exhaust), msd ignition, fuel injectors, fuel pump, under drive pulleys, high flow mas, throttle body, intake manifold.

that would safely put u at 270 at crank

a grounding kit wont really do anything for you. however if u get an ignition kit then it will. if your running 12.5 volts then its the best u can be running at.

and i deffinetly think that 270 crank hp would be streetable and na u def wouldnt need diff comp ratios and pistons. just a buncha bolt ons and also the right touch should get the stock 222 to 270. thiink about it, intake, full exhaust (headers, test pipe, catback exhaust), msd ignition, fuel injectors, fuel pump, under drive pulleys, high flow mas, throttle body, intake manifold.

that would safely put u at 270 at crank
Grounding kits have been proven on the dyno to "gain" horsepower even on newer cars.

Compression ratio is caused by the piston too.;) If you are going to run 12:1 then you are going to need timing control because knock is going to be a helluva bitch. Youd end up having to run around 100 octane most likely too. That starts taking streetablilty and reliability right out the window.

Sorry but no 3s made 222 crank horse power stock. It is massively overrated. The 3s is at best 210 crank horse power. The highest horsepower na ended up with 220(?) horse power to the wheels. That would be right around 270 crank horsepower. But the thing is that car had every possible thing thrown at it. It was in no way streetable (reliable) because of the race grind cams and everything else.

For your list.

Intake maybe 1 horsepower at most
headers 10 hp
test pipe 10hp
catback 5 hp
MSD ignition maybe as much as none to 5 hp. It will just make your spark more efficient.
injectors no horsepower, only required if you are maxing your stockers to keep from frying something from going lean
fuel pump same deal as above
under drive pulley 10 hp
high flow MAS, not needed, Plenty of TT's running insane times on same MAS.
TB same deal. Wont net you anything
Intake manifold. Stocker is proven to be very efficient. NA would suffer greatly without the VICS system.

What you are not concisdering though is power gain is not exponential. That adds up to about 40 hp, but as you power goes up, horsepower gained from individual mods will go down. There are guys MUCH more modded than that only seeing 190 hp to the wheels. You really need to read up on the NA's and how its just not financially smart to dump a whole lot of money into them because you are not going to see big gains. These arent push rod motors, they are mid sized old technology V6's.

old tech v6's? their quad cam motors. their capable of pushing alot of hp. sure maybe you would have to increase the octane for more power, but easily putting 50 crank hp on top of stock is reasonable.

If your looking at over 300 then compression ratios would come into factor. its bored the same as a vr4 so it can handle power. a set of aggressive cams for high end power will eaaaasily give you 20 more hp to the crank. and an intake will do more than 1 hp. sure k&n says "we gaurentee 15hp" but if u think reasonably, itll probobly give you 10. it gave a new rx8 about 12hp to the wheels.

its when u get real high up the chart wehre compression becomes a problem, not around 270

I'm doubting a K&N gives 10hp, especially at the wheels. Sure it may have done it on a few cars, but realistically you are probably seeing more like 2-3hp, not 10.

old tech v6's? their quad cam motors. their capable of pushing alot of hp. sure maybe you would have to increase the octane for more power, but easily putting 50 crank hp on top of stock is reasonable.

If your looking at over 300 then compression ratios would come into factor. its bored the same as a vr4 so it can handle power. a set of aggressive cams for high end power will eaaaasily give you 20 more hp to the crank. and an intake will do more than 1 hp. sure k&n says "we gaurentee 15hp" but if u think reasonably, itll probobly give you 10. it gave a new rx8 about 12hp to the wheels.

its when u get real high up the chart wehre compression becomes a problem, not around 270
Dont beleive me? Then search around 3si. Like I said there is one guy with cams, cam gears, dp, test pipe, cat back, 11:1 pistons, head work, crank pulley, and who knows what else and he is making 190 to the wheels. That is only 240 crank hp. Trust me I have read up on building a NA and its not feasible to go all out if you want big gains. And yes is old technology. The 6g72 has been around since the mid 80's. DOHC has been around for a while too. It doesnt make them anything special.

Also just adding higher octane doesnt give you more power. The higher octane is needed with higher compression otherwise you will get knock. If you would try to add 100 octane to a stock NA it would actually kill power because the higher the octane the harder to burn.

something is wrong with that...timing is probably out of wack!!!!

something is wrong with that...timing is probably out of wack!!!!
Nope, his car is tuned. It was tuned by Ray Pampeana. Ray just happens to have the highest dyno record for 3s so I think he knows what hes doing. You honestly have way too high of an expectation out of these cars. The only way to get real power out of them is with the almighty boost.

well headers (long tube) would have to give at LEAST 15hp I dont believe only 10. I dont think they even tested them (dyno) yet so we cant say much about that. If they have I havent seen it anywhere.

I will hopefully be having my car dyno'd this coming weekend. A shop has a promo going on. I have my intake done as well as my exhaust. I will report my results.

TMD

Nope, his car is tuned. It was tuned by Ray Pampeana. Ray just happens to have the highest dyno record for 3s so I think he knows what hes doing. You honestly have way too high of an expectation out of these cars. The only way to get real power out of them is with the almighty boost.

Listen to stealthee, he knows his stuff and owns an SOHC so he has a more humble point of view towards these cars :p

I'm curious if you guys are talking whp about the intake and exhaust mods or do you mean it adds to the crank?
If something like headers can put +10whp I'd be interested to see how much they add to the crank.

why don't you run a turbo or tt setup with low boost? With a good tune and low boost you'd be running pretty reliably (provided you got everything in correctly and didn't just bolt it all up and drive around)

mm damn I miss these cars. My old NA was barely a threat compared to what I have now but it was damn sexy.

if you look at k&n ads in sport compact mags, they have for example a rx8 .. and if u add a k&n cold air intake to a stock rx8 it will add 12 hp to the wheels. and they gaurentee that. and surprisingly it adds 30 rwhp on to a 03 cobra stock.

yeah it sounds sketchy but they gaurentee it to the wheels.

and when were talkin about the most power to an sl motor were talkin about keepin it n/a

RX8 most likely has a restrictive stock intake. The Cobra also has a restrictive intake and it is boosting so it will show a better gain over a naturally aspirated car. The stock 3s NA intake is actually pretty efficient. A full intake wont even show a 5 hp gain.

I dont understand why you cant accept the fact that you cant build big power easily with NA 3s's. I have shown many facts proving otherwise. It is also commonly agreed upon that the 222hp stock rating is overrated yet you still insist on basing gains on that number. I have been cars since I was little(will be 25 this month) and have been around these cars for 3 years and been on 3si for 2 years constantly. I have learned alot and try to spread my knowledge to help anyone interested. I wouldnt feed you BS. Do a few bolt ons, and take care of the car. You should have yourself a mid 14 second car that is reliable and looks great.

well that sucks...big time...and yeah k&n add good hp to rear wheel drive vehicles than on any front drive that i've seen...not just magazine adds, but tv shows