1977 formula 400 help

Hey I was wondering about my 1977 formula 400. It's ok condition: it needs a little body work all new interior and engine work. Its a big project I know. But the question i have is what is it worth and is it very rare? I heard that not many cars had the options mine does: it has 4 speed hurst shifter, hurst t-tops, and a 400 engine. thanx for your help.

Tim

Congratulations on you car. In 1977, 21801 have been built. Unfortunately the breakdown on Formulas is not as detailed as on Trans Am's. Generally speaking a manual Transmission car is rarer than the automatics. If the combination is all original, matching numbers, I'm sure you have a fairly rare car. To get more info you might want to try Pontiac Historic Services.You can check upfront if the engine came with the car, a 400 Pontiac had a "Z" as 5th digit in the VIN, designating the engine.If you find any other letter in the VIN and your current engine is a Pontiac 400 and not an olds,or else. Then your car did not come with the engine found in your ride. Making it less rare. But good luck, hopefully yours is all matching.

Hey thanks a lot do u think if i can get the numbers and post them u could tell me or is there some where i can go to figure it out? Thanks again.

Tim

Hey I went and got those numbers:

VIN - 2U87Z1N225757

Plate thingy:
BODY BY FISHER
ST77 2FS87 N 238118BDY
TR 71B A51 11L 11UPNT
06B W50 FIR
990135

Tim

Hey I went and got those numbers:

VIN - 2U87Z1N225757

Plate thingy:
BODY BY FISHER
ST77 2FS87 N 238118BDY
TR 71B A51 11L 11UPNT
06B W50 FIR
990135

Tim


ok.
lets see, starting with the VIN:
2= Pontiac
U=Formula
87=2dr coupe
Z=400 ci Pontiac (tadaa!)
1= ???that should be a 7, last digit of model year (recheck)
N=Norwood assembly plant
225757= consecutive sequence number

cowl plate breakdown:
ST77=Model Year
2FS87= Pontiac(2)F body(F)Series(S)2 dr coupe(87)
N=Norwood assembly plant
238118BDY=Unit number body
71B=Firethorn cloth interior
A51=Seat code
11L=Lower paint Cameo white
11U=Upper paint Cameo white
06B=Time built code June,2nd week of production
W50=Formula Appearance Package


Hope that helped. You can check another code, the engine code, to be found on the right side of the engine, just below the right side cylinder head in front, next to the timing chain cover, 2 LETTERS!If you are facing the engine from the front then of course it would be on the left side. The manual 400 block should be stamped with "WA".In that case it would be the original block.
Your cowl plate is missing an important code though,"CC1" designating the Hurst roof!!?Did you overlook it? If not, only Pontiac Historical services can tell you for sure if the car came with the roof.They can get you a copy of the sticker.If your car is all original and people eventually have not tmpered with it to much, you might be able to find the build sheet still in the car, under the seats or carpet.If you find a funky looking piece of paper with lots of numbers, you might not want to throw it away if your car turns out to be matching numbers, it is always nice to have....

hey thanx a lot i checked that number again and it is a 7 its kinda hard to read cuz its pretty dirty and ill look at that engine hopefully soon. I'll also look for the CC1 on the cowl plate. I took the interior out of the car because it was shredded and it had wasp nests in it. But i think it was the original interior but thats not the point the point is that i didnt find a build sheet just a crap load of pissed off wasps. thanx ill look at the engine and cowl plate again and re-post.

hey thanx a lot i checked that number again and it is a 7 its kinda hard to read cuz its pretty dirty and ill look at that engine hopefully soon. I'll also look for the CC1 on the cowl plate. I took the interior out of the car because it was shredded and it had wasp nests in it. But i think it was the original interior but thats not the point the point is that i didnt find a build sheet just a crap load of pissed off wasps. thanx ill look at the engine and cowl plate again and re-post.

you should never piss off those wasps,lol...
if it was the original interior it should have been red. and if it was, and the sheet was still in there it might have rotted away, just a guess, but from what you are saying, it is probably not in the best of conditons.however so far everything sounds good, code and numberswise and the final confirmation could come from phs. for my own interest, let me know what you found on the block...

I just got back from looking at those numbers and i couldnt find the one on the engine could u tell me where i could find a pic of where to see it. Uh i looked at the cowl tag too and i didnt see the cc1. Oh and where can i get the info from phs. thanx.
Tim

I just got back from looking at those numbers and i couldnt find the one on the engine could u tell me where i could find a pic of where to see it. Uh i looked at the cowl tag too and i didnt see the cc1. Oh and where can i get the info from phs. thanx.
Tim

http://www.phs-online.com/services.html

again, the code is to be found on the front of the block, not the timing chain housing, the block. open the hood, you are now looking at the engine, on the left side that you are looking at,below the passenger side
cylinder head, just below the head gasket you will find those two letters. they are stamped into the block, you probably have to clean the engine of grease and road grime to see them, they are very small.i can post a picture tomorrow if you haven't found them by then.

Isnt there a set of numbers back by the distributor hole as well or is that just the year and factory the engine was made in?

Isnt there a set of numbers back by the distributor hole as well or is that just the year and factory the engine was made in?

good observation. that number is "embossed" by the distributor hole and designates the year, there is also a manufacturing number. the number/letters he needs to find though designates that the block belongs to a manual transmission, and that it was installed in a Firebird.

...and regardless of the condition the vehicle is in, if it turns out to be all numbers matching, then indeed he owns a fairly rare vehicle.and if he is looking for that and can salvage and bring it back to life, all i have to say, good luck and i wish him all the best and lots of fun with the finished product.

hey i got some pictures of my car if ne one wants to see them and i went back to my engine(its out of the car) and still couldnt find the letters. umm i have another question. the dip sh** that owned it b4 me didnt take care of it and the rods went through the oil pan. uhh is this fixable? i mean can i still use the block just put all new heads, cam, crank, etc in it and still make it matching numbers? but i have another pontiac 400 engine though that i could use the parts from but it didnt come out of a firebird. thanx.

Tim

hey i got some pictures of my car if ne one wants to see them and i went back to my engine(its out of the car) and still couldnt find the letters. umm i have another question. the dip sh** that owned it b4 me didnt take care of it and the rods went through the oil pan. uhh is this fixable? i mean can i still use the block just put all new heads, cam, crank, etc in it and still make it matching numbers? but i have another pontiac 400 engine though that i could use the parts from but it didnt come out of a firebird. thanx.

Tim


i just took a picture of the location where to look for on the block, will post it in a few. now what do you mean by the rods went through the pan? this is for real? in order to use the block you need to check any damage to the bores and crank mounting locations. you can get a stock crank for relativelly less money but you need to make sure the block can be rescued. best bet is have it cleaned after you took it apart and checked by a builder/pro. so there are no cracks and else. again, wish you luck!

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3826/dscn37263wh.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

hey um what should i do about the hurst roof since it doesnt say cc1 on the cowl tag? um yeah im gonna get that block checked out. and ill take a look at that engine sometime i dont know when i have a lot of stuff to do. k thanks again.

Tim

hey um what should i do about the hurst roof since it doesnt say cc1 on the cowl tag? um yeah im gonna get that block checked out. and ill take a look at that engine sometime i dont know when i have a lot of stuff to do. k thanks again.

Tim

well i heard that some dealers installed roofs after they received cars from the factory. which would be one explanation why the code is not on the cowl plate. another would be that they forgot to punch the plate with the code (unlikely) but everything is possible I guess. i'd check with phs, if it is important to you. so far everything checked out for you and it might be all matching, but only phs can tell you for sure.