Mini Me?
Bleebdat
04-30-2002, 11:27 PM
Has anyone actually done this, what type of results did you experience etc? I have the chance to get a b16z6 head rather cheaply. Thanks for any input.
Noahk
05-01-2002, 02:20 AM
I have one. It is not a bad swap, especially if you live in CA. You have tuning issues, nothing too bad. I would not do it with out upgrading to the P28 or the zdyne one wire conversion. Other wise you won't have the proper fuel and ignition mapos while in vtec. I haven't taken my car to the track yet, but should soon. Drop me an email if you have any other questions. Here is the zdyne site.
http://www.zdyne.com/
http://www.zdyne.com/
Bleebdat
05-01-2002, 02:48 AM
Thanks Noah, can you start with the stock ECU? Also I have a chance to get the head for 80 is that a great deal or what? Lemme know.
Noahk
05-01-2002, 03:16 AM
Yeah, 80 is pretty good. The going rate for a z6 head seems to be 150. How many miles are on it? If it has high miles you'll probably need to get the valve seals done. You CAN start with the stock ECU, but then you will still need to spend some money to control VTEC, ie a vtec controller or rpm switch. In my opinion doing so is a waste of money. If you do use your stock ECU you will probably not be happy with the results. You will end up going with one of the two options anyway. What engine do you have in your car now? Here are my thoughts on the only two options you should really consider.
Here are the two best choices:
1- You use can use the zdyne one wire conversion for about 300-350 bucks. You will use the a6 intake manifold, or you can use the Z6 but you need to use the A6 injectors. The Z6 IM will flow better. This is the easiest way to go. You will have to use the a6 distributor, plus injectors, and the A6 one wire O2.
2-You can use the p28 ecu from the 92-95 civic ex/si. You'll need to buy a conversion harness for about 150 bucks, plus the ecu, also about 100, and you'll need the Z6 distributor and a 4-wire O2 sensor. The distributor is about 180 bucks new and the 4-wire O2 is 150. If you already have them of course it won't cost you a thing. If you want to retain your A6 intake manifold and injectors you can, but you can also use the Z6 intake manifold and injectors, which would be the best way to go. If you do this you'll have to remove the injector resistor box and run wires for the 4-wire 02. Two will go to the ECU and two to spots in the engine bay. Then you'll need to re-pin the distributor. This isn't too hard but you want to make sure you do it right.
I hope this helps. Keep in mind too that you should consider what else you plan on doing with the future. If you'd like to go with a b18 or b20 in the future getting the conversion harness would be a good idea. You would be all set to drop a OBD1 engine in the future. If you have plans for a turbo the zdyne is a good choice because zdyne will give you a credit for the ECU for their gold or silver option which is great when using boost. Also keep in mind that these options will cost around 500-700 bucks after the ECU and gaskets, timing belt, ect.
Noah
Here are the two best choices:
1- You use can use the zdyne one wire conversion for about 300-350 bucks. You will use the a6 intake manifold, or you can use the Z6 but you need to use the A6 injectors. The Z6 IM will flow better. This is the easiest way to go. You will have to use the a6 distributor, plus injectors, and the A6 one wire O2.
2-You can use the p28 ecu from the 92-95 civic ex/si. You'll need to buy a conversion harness for about 150 bucks, plus the ecu, also about 100, and you'll need the Z6 distributor and a 4-wire O2 sensor. The distributor is about 180 bucks new and the 4-wire O2 is 150. If you already have them of course it won't cost you a thing. If you want to retain your A6 intake manifold and injectors you can, but you can also use the Z6 intake manifold and injectors, which would be the best way to go. If you do this you'll have to remove the injector resistor box and run wires for the 4-wire 02. Two will go to the ECU and two to spots in the engine bay. Then you'll need to re-pin the distributor. This isn't too hard but you want to make sure you do it right.
I hope this helps. Keep in mind too that you should consider what else you plan on doing with the future. If you'd like to go with a b18 or b20 in the future getting the conversion harness would be a good idea. You would be all set to drop a OBD1 engine in the future. If you have plans for a turbo the zdyne is a good choice because zdyne will give you a credit for the ECU for their gold or silver option which is great when using boost. Also keep in mind that these options will cost around 500-700 bucks after the ECU and gaskets, timing belt, ect.
Noah
Bleebdat
05-01-2002, 03:20 AM
BTW I have a d16a6 right now. Noah my hope right now is to buy this head, rebuild it. Then when I get the time and funds but it in. At the sametime I might build the bottom and turbo. Whadda ya think?
Bleebdat
05-01-2002, 03:25 AM
Noah what do you think the HP gains are BTW. LOL millions of questions.
Noahk
05-01-2002, 04:15 AM
You HP gains will depend on a few things. One is of course the proper ECU. Also having the right intake manifold for good high-end power. Also having the right exhaust manifold or header helps a lot too, there are small differences between the A6 and Z6 manifold. One of the benefits of the swap is the raise in compression ratio, this will make the torque curve very flat. I have seen a dyno chart of the zdyne ecu, plus header and intake. The car made pretty good power, but it also had a super flat torque curve. I believe he had 99% of his torque at 2200 RPM. Which is not what you usally see with a 1.6 honda engine. He was using a hybrid ZC tranny with a SI final drive but I think he did the quarter in 14.9 or so.
Another buddy of mine did the swap in his 90 CRX si, he used the stock exhaust manifold but he used the Z6 intake manifold and P28 ECU. He only took it to the track once but I think he pulled a 15.6 and said he could of done much better. He was having some tranny problems at the time. So is you judge by the 15.6 time, he should be making aropund 130-140 hp. So if you do it right you can expect some pretty respectable times for a sohc engine. Keep in mind that his car is completely stock besides the Z6 head and intake manifold.
If you build the head just get a mild port job on it. More of a clean up than any thing. From what I've read the reads responde well to this. Also if you're at it I would pick up a ZEX cam. The ZEX has made some awesome numbers for the Z6. The engine the tested it in this article has light mods, but it made 7 more hp, which is good for a sohc engine. I read in the full article that there was no real lost of power in any RPM, that is common woth a lot of cams. Whats even more impressive is that the cam made 11 more HP in the mid range! That's close to a 10% increase, which is huge for a 1.6. Here is the article.
http://www.importtuner.com/archives/tech/0201_tech02.shtml
As far as using the Z6 head for a turbo I would not do so. The rasised compression rato mades dentonation a problems with a turbo. The mini-me will run fine on 91 pump gas, but with a turbo it may be a different story. The a6/z6 combo has a comression ratio of around 10.5:1, which is very high for a turbo setup. The mini-me would be a good NA option, but I would not go with a turbo.
Noah
Another buddy of mine did the swap in his 90 CRX si, he used the stock exhaust manifold but he used the Z6 intake manifold and P28 ECU. He only took it to the track once but I think he pulled a 15.6 and said he could of done much better. He was having some tranny problems at the time. So is you judge by the 15.6 time, he should be making aropund 130-140 hp. So if you do it right you can expect some pretty respectable times for a sohc engine. Keep in mind that his car is completely stock besides the Z6 head and intake manifold.
If you build the head just get a mild port job on it. More of a clean up than any thing. From what I've read the reads responde well to this. Also if you're at it I would pick up a ZEX cam. The ZEX has made some awesome numbers for the Z6. The engine the tested it in this article has light mods, but it made 7 more hp, which is good for a sohc engine. I read in the full article that there was no real lost of power in any RPM, that is common woth a lot of cams. Whats even more impressive is that the cam made 11 more HP in the mid range! That's close to a 10% increase, which is huge for a 1.6. Here is the article.
http://www.importtuner.com/archives/tech/0201_tech02.shtml
As far as using the Z6 head for a turbo I would not do so. The rasised compression rato mades dentonation a problems with a turbo. The mini-me will run fine on 91 pump gas, but with a turbo it may be a different story. The a6/z6 combo has a comression ratio of around 10.5:1, which is very high for a turbo setup. The mini-me would be a good NA option, but I would not go with a turbo.
Noah
Bleebdat
05-01-2002, 11:23 AM
Wow thanks Noah, I didnt realize the compression would get so high. I was actually expecting the compression to stay at the 9.1 that my a6 block has, but the head will make it rise? Interesting stuff. Noah I will be defineatly emailing you if I get this head thanks for all the info.
xpurespeedx
05-01-2002, 12:21 PM
Hey whats up I just finished doing a mini me swap, I have a d16a6 block and a d16y8 head. My compression is about 11:1, and as soon as i finished it was pinging like crazy even know i was running on 93 octane, but that was because i had my timing set at 16 degrees, so i retarded it to 13 and it seems to run alot better. Also if your bottom end is not strong , i would rebuild the block because my has a slight knock under load now, it didnt before i did the swap so be careful. Tuning in everything is becoming a pain in the butt. I just wish you the best of luck with everything, oh yeah i rebuilt my head before i put it on also.
kingpinn
04-22-2004, 04:03 AM
that is crazy noahk how do you know so much
marked001
04-22-2004, 08:33 AM
hmm...I feel a temp. ban coming on...
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