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Cooling System Trouble


wolfox
08-03-2005, 11:05 PM
Well, things just get more and more fun. The "recording" of sounds was interrupted by a sudden, glorious deluge of coolant on the pavement when sitting idle at a stop light. Rather than chase cooling system problems piecemeal, I figure the truck's up there in age to get it all wrapped up. It appears that the plastic side tank split away from the aluminum core on the passenger side. No hoses or cooling lines seem to be amiss, but the entire passenger side was drenched with fluid, as was the splash guard acting like a.... well splash guard, keeping coolant drooling out from both sides over the sway bar bushings.

I am going to be picking up over the course of the next few days:

1) New radiator
2) Complete set of hoses - both upper, lower and spring for lower.
3) New water pump (Gaskets are in the box)
4) New thermostat (195 Degrees F.)
5) New Thermostat gasket
6) Tube of Permatex sealant (RTV)
7) Any job is an excuse for more tools - so a flare nut wrench kit will be scooped up to deal with cooling lines along with a new adjustable wrench. My old one's quite crappy and tends to chew what it turns.
The radiator cap is not even three weeks old, as the last time I had coolant trouble, it was replaced. (Leaking heater core hoses and blown lower intake seals - again, new and fresh) I will be picking up 50/50 premixed coolant, a few gallons of distilled water and a flushing kit to blow the crap out of the block before I swap in the new parts and refill. Is there anything else I should be chasing down or I am forgetting? Is there any real benefit to obtaining the same tube of "Stop leak" GM techs toss into the radiator when the truck's serviced at normal intervals? Or may I skip that entirely? Input, please...

Thanks guys!

drdd
08-03-2005, 11:29 PM
yeah man ... fun times ... go for it!!

you haven't forgotten your lower intake manifold gasket have you ??? might be worth changing while you're diggin' into it ...

also ... replace those !@##$%& GM-tension-hose-clamps with normal "screw-driver" hose-clamp fittings while you're at it !!!

... flare-nut-wrench-kit ... ? why not? kick ass!! go for it! .. use it to change your fuel-filter next time !!

I'd probably test the 'stat and inspect the hoses before replacing ... I'd also inspect that waterpump before replacing.

check that rad-cap - to - overflow "puke tank" tube for clogging ! Might also be a good time to actually pull the reservoire and clean the hell out of it.

enjoy any involuntary, warm, dexcool-baths that you may encounter !!






Well, things just get more and more fun. The "recording" of sounds was interrupted by a sudden, glorious deluge of coolant on the pavement when sitting idle at a stop light. Rather than chase cooling system problems piecemeal, I figure the truck's up there in age to get it all wrapped up. It appears that the plastic side tank split away from the aluminum core on the passenger side. No hoses or cooling lines seem to be amiss, but the entire passenger side was drenched with fluid, as was the splash guard acting like a.... well splash guard, keeping coolant drooling out from both sides over the sway bar bushings.

I am going to be picking up over the course of the next few days:

1) New radiator
2) Complete set of hoses - both upper, lower and spring for lower.
3) New water pump (Gaskets are in the box)
4) New thermostat (195 Degrees F.)
5) New Thermostat gasket
6) Tube of Permatex sealant (RTV)
7) Any job is an excuse for more tools - so a flare nut wrench kit will be scooped up to deal with cooling lines along with a new adjustable wrench. My old one's quite crappy and tends to chew what it turns.
The radiator cap is not even three weeks old, as the last time I had coolant trouble, it was replaced. (Leaking heater core hoses and blown lower intake seals - again, new and fresh) I will be picking up 50/50 premixed coolant, a few gallons of distilled water and a flushing kit to blow the crap out of the block before I swap in the new parts and refill. Is there anything else I should be chasing down or I am forgetting? Is there any real benefit to obtaining the same tube of "Stop leak" GM techs toss into the radiator when the truck's serviced at normal intervals? Or may I skip that entirely? Input, please...

Thanks guys!

BlazerLT
08-04-2005, 12:19 AM
Just replace the rad, why fix what is not broken and save money for future repairs.

s10blazerman4x4
08-04-2005, 12:23 AM
Just replace the rad, why fix what is not broken and save money for future repairs.
Exactly because in my experience whatever breaks now and when i fix stuff to get ahead of the game something bigger and better breaks

wolfox
08-04-2005, 12:47 AM
Okay, so no vote for GM's magic sawdust so far. DRDD's a little misguided - the lower intake seals are brand spanking new, they are only as old as the new radiator cap. The intake seals are what blew up the last time, just shy of three weeks ago. A part of me really sides with BLT's logic here, the next "big repair" is always lurking around the bend. Survey says CPI and nut kit. (Bets, anyone?) Or at the very least, a possible O2 sensor on the horizon too. However, I do not want to deal with the hassle of having to tear stuff down and possibly loose coolant again when the waterpump/hoses decide to quit. When compared to the radiator, the "extras" are cheap insurance IMO. I found the original t-stat today! It was rattling around inside the splash guard most likely from the last mechanic that replaced it and fumbled, dropping it in there. I wonder if that is what possibly added insult to injury in beating the bottom and side of the radiator up on the passenger side. *Shrug* But she's a royal mess, the hoses I pulled off were dry and cracked along the bottoms where one could not see. So at the very least, hose clamps, hoses and a radiator. The Autozone rebuilt "Duralast" water pump's just shy of $30 and the t-stat a negligable $5 when compared to the $200.99 Transcool aftermarket radiator core. (Bastards, there is no core offered on ANY of the parts) I'm already in this for $250 or so after taxes, what's an extra $40 at this point? *I* would sleep a little easier at night so the thought is not without some small merrit, IMO. Any other thoughts guys? Before I go get dirty on this tomorrow? *YAWN* Ugh, time for bed...dog tired.

blazee
08-04-2005, 09:02 AM
For that much extra, I agree with the idea of just fixing everything and being done with it. When ever I do a job, I always get as much done as a can while I've got it torn apart. It would be cheaper to do it now than have to buy new anti-freeze every time something breaks. After ten years of service, the components can't be expected to last long enough to make procrastinating worth it.

As for the stop leak...GM mentions it in a TSB:

Sealing Tablets

Sealing tablets are not used at the assembly plant for most models. Sealing tablets are generally not necessary and should not be used as a regular maintenance item after servicing an engine cooling system. The use of sealing tablets can, in some cases, produce contamination of the cooling system and/or severe discoloration of coolant.I also suggest that you fill it with plain water for a day or two, so that you don't waste your coolant if you have to do anymore repairs.

wolfox
08-04-2005, 12:19 PM
Mmmm, yes, I like the idea of running water in the system for a leak test over the next two days. In fact, a series of changes of water with Prestone Cooling System Cleaner added at one point should get her flushed out good. (I live at an apartment, no ready access to a hose...and sinking this much dough into it is going to leave prety thin finances for another month or so. But a follow-up visit to my usual mechanic for a full system flush and refill should cover my bases here in another 3 weeks) Going to have to avoid the highways and bumper-2-bumper traffic too I bet. Straight water, though it cools better, will not have the overboil protection, let alone the anti-wear, rust and electrolosis protection - but the two day test should not hurt it. I might just go ahead and see if I can buy my own, rather than rent the pressure tester. I can use it on more than just my truck in the future, but an overnight leak-down check after pumpig it up to cap pressure should suffice. I thank all of you thus far for your input, and helping me decide on other smaller background items. You are all a credit to the forum and ourselves! :)

EDIT: Wow, no surprise here....filled up the radiator to take a little trip to the parts store (leaving the cap off so it at least will not blow out coolant under pressure) and the water pump's just leaking like all get out from the weep hole. Man, it's all shot to hell in here. Oh, well, now you know where I am going to be for the next day and a half...turning wrenches in between my usual work duties. Maybe I can get a little time off earlier in the afternoon to fix this 100% *today*.

blazee
08-04-2005, 12:26 PM
Most of your overboil protection comes from the pressure on the system (3-4 degree increase for every 1 pound of pressure.) The antifreeze only adds about 15 degrees

drdd
08-04-2005, 01:05 PM
If your trucks anything like mine, I betcha spend more time and back-ache on that lower radiator hoseclamp than waterpump and Tstat combined !! Haha! Good Luck!




Mmmm, yes, I like the idea of running water in the system for a leak test over the next two days. In fact, a series of changes of water with Prestone Cooling System Cleaner added at one point should get her flushed out good. (I live at an apartment, no ready access to a hose...and sinking this much dough into it is going to leave prety thin finances for another month or so. But a follow-up visit to my usual mechanic for a full system flush and refill should cover my bases here in another 3 weeks) Going to have to avoid the highways and bumper-2-bumper traffic too I bet. Straight water, though it cools better, will not have the overboil protection, let alone the anti-wear, rust and electrolosis protection - but the two day test should not hurt it. I might just go ahead and see if I can buy my own, rather than rent the pressure tester. I can use it on more than just my truck in the future, but an overnight leak-down check after pumpig it up to cap pressure should suffice. I thank all of you thus far for your input, and helping me decide on other smaller background items. You are all a credit to the forum and ourselves! :)

EDIT: Wow, no surprise here....filled up the radiator to take a little trip to the parts store (leaving the cap off so it at least will not blow out coolant under pressure) and the water pump's just leaking like all get out from the weep hole. Man, it's all shot to hell in here. Oh, well, now you know where I am going to be for the next day and a half...turning wrenches in between my usual work duties. Maybe I can get a little time off earlier in the afternoon to fix this 100% *today*.

wolfox
08-04-2005, 01:15 PM
Gods, no, I hope not DRDD. I have a lousy back. That's why I am a technician by trade and hobby. I have gotten a good survey of it all though. May be best to roll the truck up on ramps and work on the "lower end" first, flat on my back. Can't complain all that much when you are laying down on the job. ;) I'll get 'er done here in a bit I hope. I am pushing last minute software updates out to a bank of computers in the lab, and then I am off for the afternoon - with my boss' blessings. W00t!

RedLT
08-04-2005, 01:32 PM
That's why I am a technician by trade and hobby.

Well, what kind of tech are you. If its any kind of networking then get me a job. I will start for no less than $55,000 a year. :naughty:

BlazerLT
08-04-2005, 04:32 PM
Guys, whoever is promoting water in the system for a day is not thinking.

Water boiling point is 100c which is the operating temperature of the engine.

Sure the cap pressure will help stop the boiling, but in the hot weather you will sure as hell have some steam created on contact in the block.

Add SOME coolant to it but don't run straight water or all you fix will be fine and something alse will blow.

blazee
08-04-2005, 04:56 PM
Guys, whoever is promoting water in the system for a day is not thinking.

Water boiling point is 100c which is the operating temperature of the engine.

Sure the cap pressure will help stop the boiling, but in the hot weather you will sure as hell have some steam created on contact in the block.

Add SOME coolant to it but don't run straight water or all you fix will be fine and something alse will blow.
I recommended running water.

As I already stated:
"Most of your overboil protection comes from the pressure on the system (3-4 degree increase for every 1 pound of pressure.) The antifreeze only adds about 15 degrees"

At sea level water boils at 212f. With a 16psi cap the boiling point is increased to about 260f. The operating temperature of the engine is 195f. There is no problem there. The only benefit of the antifreeze would be the anti-wear, rust and electrolysis protection that wolfox mentioned, but it won't hurt anything to run with out it a couple days.

wolfox
08-04-2005, 05:50 PM
I am actually running one better, guys - relax. Valid points are brought up all around from everyone, and again, I am grateful - because it makes me *think*. BlazerLT and Blazee are BOTH right. I have combined the information a little bit earlier myself and I am going to be running a mix of top off water and a bottle of Prestone Cooling System *Cleaner*. Not the flush. Cleaner is made to work in pure water, contains the adds needed to lubricate and protect the system, and is designed to run for a few days in the radiator/cooling system with a water mix. In fact, it says to drive "normally" for several days, drain, and then refill with 50-70%/50% coolant/water mix. That should be more than long enough to bang the crud out of the block nice and gently and maintain cooling system performance and safety. Come Monday - I will drain and refill.

Status: Taking a break. Got the shrouds (upper and lower) out of the engine bay, fan/clutch and pulley removed. The old radiator is out and laying on the ground. I will knock the pump off the block here in a bit and then get things underway for clean-up and resealing the new pump on. I am taking it slow as I do not have a garage, and I am outside in triple digits with nary a breeze in sight. So I am relaxing, updating, and having a lot of Icewater. Oh, and DRDD, I should have bet you. The old compression style spring clamps on the bottom hose came off so easily by reaching around the bands with a pair of channel lock pliers. The hose came off without a hitch and I saved the spring to put back into the new lower hose. Everything will be going back into place with screw type stainless bands. (2.25"-2.75" diameter) The poor girl's bleeding on the pavement, I just do not have enough catch buckets to go around...but the majority of the mess is done. Rolling the truck up onto roll-up stands is making the job easier, everything is elevated, and I just hang my arms down in over the top of the grille while standing up to hit everything. So far, so good! My back's holding up fine. :)

wolfox
08-04-2005, 05:58 PM
Well, what kind of tech are you. If its any kind of networking then get me a job. I will start for no less than $55,000 a year. :naughty:

Pffft, right. I am a tech at a local college and they pay me worse than a teacher's salary - and I am in a management position no less. $55K+/year is more than they pay their own post doctorate gruaduates that come back to work for the school. Not to worry though - I wrap up a few more work honed skills and a few mroe years under my belt and I can work anywhere I want by pointing at the job. Face it, working for a school is murder and totally thankless - but at least I *enjoy* the work. That's the best benefit of all, IMO. Anyway - enough shade-tree philosophy from me...I am going to get back to work outside. :)

blazee
08-04-2005, 06:05 PM
The prestone cleaner is pretty good stuff. It's what I use. It is the same stuff that the Chevy dealer uses, except they use a slighty stronger powder version.
I'm glad to here that everything is going smoothly. I guess you're better at cooling system repair than transmission servicing. :lol:

wolfox
08-04-2005, 09:56 PM
Hey now! I did manage to fix the tranny! Dadgum thing was put together like a Chinese puzzle box. Just a matter of figuring out what to shift, what to pry, what to support and what to finesse. My mechanic was happy to stand by and *watch* me work. He walked away and did some work on some other fellow's car for a while, leaving me alone. ;) But...back on target:

She's fixed. Plain and simple. No leaks, drips, seeps, etc. etc. etc. I got her all back together and let her idle on the ramps with the rad cap off until she was hot enough to pop open the T-stat. All the while I was gathering up the wrappers, plastic bags, cleaning and picking up my tools, etc. I got back and she sucked down some more water and I topped her off. Let it idle with the heater running full blast for 20 minutes. Checked for leaks, drips, and all the places I touched...nada. Dry as a bone. I buttoned her up, rolled her off the ramps and took her for a spin. I was so dry I had to stop at a local stop-n-rob to pick up some Gatorade and a snack.

Came back outside, and except for the usual A/C drip behind the passenger side tire, she's just happily rumbling and still holding water tight. A fellow loading up pallettes of soda came up and said, "Gee Mister, she sounds great! That's no stock Blazer is it?" I think that was the greatest compliment any one of us could be paid. I told him I spent the better part of 6 hours slaving over her today, and I was just happy that it runs. A quick jaunt down the highway and back for three exits pretty much made sure that she was good and hot. Stopped at a stoplight, the temp only rose straight up at 210 degrees, then dropped off to a tick left of center as soon as the throttle was touched. Took her home on a back street and parked her. No temperature spikes! I popped the hood, now getting dark outside and looked at everything I touched with a flashlight. Having been shut off so soon after a run, I could still hear the gentle "bwip" of bubbles blowing out of the radiator through the coolant recovery tank. She is still water-tight and not a single drop of fluid *anywhere*. What I though was a mild valve cover leak for the past 4 months quickly dried up! The usual spot of what looked like oil on the pavement after parking or idling in one place for 5 minutes is GONE. I guess that was my water-pump's weep hole kicking coolant out for all that time. *shrug* I am going to go outside and get a look at her again, then hook up the pressure tester and close the hood on it, leaving it overnight. It's almost safe to say that I can declare this job done, and working well! Thanks guys, and I hope that all our future jobs around the truck go this smoothly!

drdd
08-04-2005, 10:01 PM
now drink some beer and enjoy your truck !


Hey now! I did manage to fix the tranny! Dadgum thing was put together like a Chinese puzzle box. Just a matter of figuring out what to shift, what to pry, what to support and what to finesse. My mechanic was happy to stand by and *watch* me work. He walked away and did some work on some other fellow's car for a while, leaving me alone. ;) But...back on target:

She's fixed. Plain and simple. No leaks, drips, seeps, etc. etc. etc. I got her all back together and let her idle on the ramps with the rad cap off until she was hot enough to pop open the T-stat. All the while I was gathering up the wrappers, plastic bags, cleaning and picking up my tools, etc. I got back and she sucked down some more water and I topped her off. Let it idle with the heater running full blast for 20 minutes. Checked for leaks, drips, and all the places I touched...nada. Dry as a bone. I buttoned her up, rolled her off the ramps and took her for a spin. I was so dry I had to stop at a local stop-n-rob to pick up some Gatorade and a snack.

Came back outside, and except for the usual A/C drip behind the passenger side tire, she's just happily rumbling and still holding water tight. A fellow loading up pallettes of soda came up and said, "Gee Mister, she sounds great! That's no stock Blazer is it?" I think that was the greatest compliment any one of us could be paid. I told him I spent the better part of 6 hours slaving over her today, and I was just happy that it runs. A quick jaunt down the highway and back for three exits pretty much made sure that she was good and hot. Stopped at a stoplight, the temp only rose straight up at 210 degrees, then dropped off to a tick left of center as soon as the throttle was touched. Took her home on a back street and parked her. No temperature spikes! I popped the hood, now getting dark outside and looked at everything I touched with a flashlight. Having been shut off so soon after a run, I could still hear the gentle "bwip" of bubbles blowing out of the radiator through the coolant recovery tank. She is still water-tight and not a single drop of fluid *anywhere*. What I though was a mild valve cover leak for the past 4 months quickly dried up! The usual spot of what looked like oil on the pavement after parking or idling in one place for 5 minutes is GONE. I guess that was my water-pump's weep hole kicking coolant out for all that time. *shrug* I am going to go outside and get a look at her again, then hook up the pressure tester and close the hood on it, leaving it overnight. It's almost safe to say that I can declare this job done, and working well! Thanks guys, and I hope that all our future jobs around the truck go this smoothly!

wolfox
08-04-2005, 10:42 PM
Nawwww, I'm hispanic, and it's hot outside. Beer? BEER?! Man, if you lived in the area and showed up right now - you will find me freshly de-greasing my hands before I lifted a glass of light-n-dark rum blended Pina Colada! I think I will make Mojito's over the weekend if she stays good and sealed tight. It's time to fiesta my friend! :cheers: :jump3:

drdd
08-04-2005, 10:57 PM
Im with ya on the Pina Colada !

What's a Mojito?

Here in Kentucky its bourbon with a capital B all the way! Workin on a sip right now ...



Nawwww, I'm hispanic, and it's hot outside. Beer? BEER?! Man, if you lived in the area and showed up right now - you will find me freshly de-greasing my hands before I lifted a glass of light-n-dark rum blended Pina Colada! I think I will make Mojito's over the weekend if she stays good and sealed tight. It's time to fiesta my friend! :cheers: :jump3:

wolfox
08-04-2005, 11:12 PM
I can dig it, kickin' it back with a little Southern style. It's not how you party, only that you do! A Mojito is a rather delicious beverage. Into a tall rocks glass, you toss in 5-7 mint leaves. Then you throw in a thin, half-slice of lime. You then throw in a jigger (1.5 Oz.) of *light* rum. B*cardi Select wil do handsomely. (Edited for non-commercial content) Then using a "bat", really a small, blunt wooden implement, you mash and pound the mixture until the lime, rum and mint leaves are crushed to a paste. You then add 2 TBSP. of simple syrup, or 4 tsp of sugar (Simple syrup is made by filling, say, a 12 Oz. beer or spritzer bottle halfway with sugar, filling with water to the top of the label and shaking vigorously. The water level will drop when it mixes, fill it up to the bottom of the neck again and shake to mix.) After you have "muddled" this mix, add several ice cubes and top off with club soda; stirring it thoroughly and then garnishing with lime wedge and tossing in a few unmolested mint leaves. Find a place to sit, relax, throw some tunes on the MP3 player and enjoy. It's the stuff that my networks were built on. ;)

blazee
08-05-2005, 02:54 PM
I can dig it, kickin' it back with a little Southern style. It's not how you party, only that you do! A Mojito is a rather delicious beverage. Into a tall rocks glass, you toss in 5-7 mint leaves. Then you throw in a thin, half-slice of lime. You then throw in a jigger (1.5 Oz.) of *light* rum. B*cardi Select wil do handsomely. (Edited for non-commercial content) Then using a "bat", really a small, blunt wooden implement, you mash and pound the mixture until the lime, rum and mint leaves are crushed to a paste. You then add 2 TBSP. of simple syrup, or 4 tsp of sugar (Simple syrup is made by filling, say, a 12 Oz. beer or spritzer bottle halfway with sugar, filling with water to the top of the label and shaking vigorously. The water level will drop when it mixes, fill it up to the bottom of the neck again and shake to mix.) After you have "muddled" this mix, add several ice cubes and top off with club soda; stirring it thoroughly and then garnishing with lime wedge and tossing in a few unmolested mint leaves. Find a place to sit, relax, throw some tunes on the MP3 player and enjoy. It's the stuff that my networks were built on. ;)That's too complicated for me. I try to keep drinks to 2 ingredients...rum and coke, vodka and OJ, tequila and lime sherbert.....

Back in my younger days, I would mix up some hunch punch and have parties that lasted all weekend. Start with a 10 gallon jug like the one below. Throw in some Hawaiian punch, orange juice, pineapple juice, etc.... Chop up different fruits and throw in there.....then dump in tons of alcohol, Rum, Vodka, Whiskey.... It was some pretty good shit.

http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pACE-982433reg.jpg

wolfox
08-05-2005, 03:15 PM
But those are truly examples of simplicity being the best. Some could argue that a beer bottle and a bottle opener are a mixed drink because it required the use of two items. Egads, that was a strange night, now that I reflect on it a little. I am going to have to rob you on that tequilla and lime sherbert idea, that does sound goooood. :9 BTW, the truck's still leakproof and still burping air, but I guess that is all of the dissolved gasses amongst other things that are in our tap water out here in Arkansas. The pressure test/leakdown overnight passed with flying colors. I will keep you all posted on how it all goes down here in a few more days. I figure at least 3-4 flushes with tap water to completely clear the system out (Idling for 20 minutes at a go with the heater on) and then filling up with distilled water and Havoline long-life "GM Dexcool approved" fluid should do the trick. The concentrate, BTW, is available on Walmart shelves in my area for $9.75 a gallon. Mix with Distailled water to make 2 gallons of "Dexcool" compatible fluid. Unless I am mistaken, the Havoline product should just about be the same as the factory fill, yes? Didn't Texaco-Havoline originally make the Dexcool formulation for GM in the past? If not, I can just return the unopened bottles with receipt, no big deal. :D

wolfox
08-08-2005, 11:23 AM
Well, cooling system issues have been resolved. She is running on a full belly of Dexcool and distilled water and run long enough to build pressure to check for leaks. All is well there. In the process of getting my air intake off however, so I could reach the radiator drain cock, I tore the boot that holds the IAT sensor that leads into the upper plenum intake bore. So the search is on while the truck sits AGAIN for that boot in a junkyard or *gasp* the dealership. Same Sh*t, Different Day with this truck. Can't wait to catch up with all of the breakdown parts. ;)

EDIT: You're NOT going to believe this one. Some bonehead in all of the junkyards I called said he had the part for $20. What he meant to say is that he had TRUCKS in his possession. Since my truck's stranded without the intake boot, I have to pay out of pocket to borrow the company truck to zoom 45 miles to the middle of NOWHERE to find that NONE of his s-10's and jimmy's had the boot. Well, that's unfair - the ONE Jimmy he had in the lot was the same age as my truck, and when attempting to remove the boot from the intake, it tore too! So down and out of cash to roll the company truck for personal use - I pull into a GMC Truck dealership out of sheer desperation.

I had it in my hands the next day, overnight order for $11.60 + tax.

Score a big one for the dealership there! Anyway, truck's up and running, and onto the next problem...

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