(update alert!!06/20/06) Racing Game Pre-Production: Need Your Advice, All!!!

Hey everyone.

New to the forum and learning more and more about automotive culture as is. I'm mostly into game design/development and have a serious love for cars, regardless of the region.

I've been scoping you guys out for awhile now and it seems that you know your stuff pretty friggin' well. I'll be asking a GREAT amount of questions though, as I am a newbie to much information; essentially I'll be a sponge here. So don't hurt me, okay.

....and no, I do not have a particular prejudice against any auto region. Be it domestic, euro or JDM.

Now, on to the real question and information:

I am now in the pre-production phases of a racing sim. Now before anyone makes any assumptions, this isn't just ANY sim. My aim is to literally right the wrongs that've been done in the past by other game companies within every single possible phase of development. Essentially, going over the entire production stage with a fine tooth comb. From physics, control, graphics, you name it.

As I've said, I'm a huge gear-head, but I know where my weaknesses are. So as a result, I need you all to help me, if you're willing.

What exactly would you all like to see within your ideal Racing Simulation for say, the Playstation 3 or the Xbox 360?


Well, I do have the features where certain parts can break down. The parts that I have listed are:
v Clutch
v Transmission
v Forced induction (turbo charger, super charger)
v Rollcage
v Brakes
v Suspension- shocks, springs

Now the key that I"m going for is to make it as user-friendly as possible, but in-depth enough for gear-heads to love all day. While it seems hard, I do have a formula that helps this out. But for right now, these are the parts that can be worn from excessive use and or abuse.

The aim for the autos that I've picked for each region is to select the absolute BEST models of their final years, best performance and most popular amongst tuners (foreign or domestic).

Mods I talked to him about this before. Its a real game aiming at production.

Two spirits this is the guy.

Later Jc

Perhaps you should have an advanced mode where the player can do in-depth mods like crankshafts, pistons, piston rods, stroking the engine, etc. etc. Perhaps they could even custom specify the parameters (characteristics, alloys, and what have you) of the components within certain limits? Am I making any sense?

Engine swaps and (tasteful) exterior mods :thumbsup:

None of this need for speed underground roof scoop crap.

Cars to have in it an I'll buy it. :smile:

Saleen S7
Saleen S7 R
Saleen S7 competition
Saleen S7 TT

Mclaren F1
Mclaren F1 LM
Mclaren GTR
Mclaren GTR Longtail

Ferrari 360
Ferrari 360 spider
Ferrari 360 Stradale
Ferrari 360 GT
Ferrari 550
Ferrari 550 barachetta
Ferrari 550 GT
Ferrari 575
Ferrari 575 GTC
Ferrari F50
Ferrari F40
Ferrari Enzo
Ferrari F40 Lm
Ferrari F50 GT

Maserati Mc12
Maserati Mc12 Race car

All pagani models

All Callaway models

All noble models

Mercedes Clk-Lm
Mercedes Clk-GTR
Mercedes Clk-GTR Super sport
Mercedes Clk-DTM
Mercedes Slr

Jaguar Xj220
Jaguar Xj220 Twr

Gemballa Mirage
Gemballa 750 Evo
Gemballa 650 Evo

Ruf All models

Sport tec all models

Porsche GT1
Porsche GT2
Porsche GT3
Porsche Carrera GT

Fioravanti F100

Aston martin Db9
Aston martin Db9 R
Aston martin V8 Vantage

Corvette C6
Corvette C6 R

TVR Sagaris
TVR Cerebra speed 12
TVR Cerebra Speed 6
TVR T350

Lamborghini Diablo 5.0
Lamborghini Diablo SV
Lamborghini Diablo GTR
Lamborghini Diablo LM
Lamborghini Diablo SC
Lamborghini Murceilago
Lamborghini R-GT
Lamborghini Hota
Lamborghini Gallardo

Formula one cars

Bentley Speed 12

Audi S4
Audi Rs4
Audi Rs6
Audi R8

Nissan R390
Nissan R390 Race car
Nissan R34 GTR
Nissan R34 GTR V-spec II
Nissan R34 JGTC
Nissan R34 Nismo Z tune
Nissan R33 GTR
Nissan R33 GTR V spec II
Nissan R32 GTR
Nissan R32 GTR V spec II
Nissan 350z
Nissan 350 fairlady Z nismo version
Nissan 300Zx TT
Nissan Silvia S15
Nissan Silvia S14
Nissan Silvia S13

Acura Nsx
Acura Nsx Type R
Acura Nsx R-GT
Acura DC2
Acura DC5

Mazda 787B
Mazda Rx7 FD3S :smile:
Mazda Rx7 spirit 03

Chrysler ME four tweleve

Molser Mt900

Ultima GTR 2005

Koenseigg CC8S (sp)
Koenseigg CCR(sp)

Dauer 962 Le man

____________________

More but I'll leave those for others

BMW E30 M3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and M3 e36 and e46, M3 CSL e36 and e46, and M3 GTR FOR SURE.

Ya engine swaps are a must...

Free roaming is a great +

Also that photo shoot mode for GT4 was sick thats a must.

NEED SOME GM IN THERE!

Chevrolet Camaro '69 Yenko
Chevrolet Camaro '69 Z/28 302
Chevrolet Camaro '89 IROC-Z
Chevrolet Camaro '02 SS
Chevrolet Chevelle '70 SS 454
Chevrolet Corvette (C3) '69 ZL-1
Chevrolet Corvette (C4) '95 ZR-1
Chevrolet Corvette (C5) '03 Z06
Chevrolet El Camino '69 SS 454
Chevrolet Nova '69 Yenko
Chevrolet Impala '69 SS 427

Buick '87 GNX
Buick '70 GS 455 Stage-1
Buick '69 Wildcat

Oldsmobile 4-4-2 '69 455
Oldsmobile Toronado '70 GT

Perhaps you should have an advanced mode where the player can do in-depth mods like crankshafts, pistons, piston rods, stroking the engine, etc. etc. Perhaps they could even custom specify the parameters (characteristics, alloys, and what have you) of the components within certain limits? Am I making any sense?

Okay, within the GDD, I have so far the ability to tune your ECU and Turbo/Supercharger according to RPMs. However, I don't necessarily want to express it in the same way that NFS: Underground 2 did (though they did an admirable job for EA).

I'm going to play off a completely clean slate here. How exactly does one modify the crankshafts and pistons. Also, what methods do you think would be BETTER to apply than the balance graph that was used in NFS:U2?

This is/was my Chevy run so far:

Chevrolet-
1. ’63 Corvette Z06
2. ’67 Camaro Z/28
3. ’69 Camaro ZL-1
4. ’70 Chevelle SS 454
5. ’87 Camaro IROC-Z
6. ’91 Corvette
7. ’99 Corvette C5-R
8. ’01 Corvette Tiger Shark Concept
9. ’02 Corvette Z06
10. ’06 Impala SS
11. ’05 Corvette Show & Go
12. ’04 Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe Concept
13. ’04 Cobalt SS Supercharged Sedan Concept
14. ’01 Camaro Z28
15. ’95 Impala
16. ’05 Aveo Hatchback
17. ’05 Aveo Sedan
18. ’91 Corsica
19. ’06 Corvette Z06
20. ’06 Monte Carlo SS
21. ’05 C6-R
22. ’03 SSR
23. S-10
24. Silverado

i think you should stick with more realistic cars. One thing that always pisses me off about most racing games, is they over use exotics. I would like to see a racing game thats more realistic to what street racing is all about. GT4 was pretty close, but didnt have the whole street scene. I also didnt like its upgrade system, it would be great if someone could make a game that there was always a way to make the car faster. Maybe do it through having some kind of dyno tunning simulator or something. To often in a game, you get a car that you really enjoy, you get every mod for it, but there is still a faster car. But you dont want that faster car. It also makes it so that everyone has the same fastest car with the same mods, speed, HP and such.

Someone really needs to get down and dirty with the mechanics of a car and how far they can actually be tunned. If you could make a game that had a never ending HP progress that would be great. Like say you have a Cavalier Z24 (using this as reference cause i know alot about them) its stock is 150HP. Most racing games would let you get to maybe 300HP or so on it. But in real life people have gotten the car to well over 1200 HP. But i mean say you get to 300HP in the game, that kinda sucks cause i like cavaliers but i cant race against anyone with it cause they will all have 500 HP Cobra Mustangs. It needs to have some type of system that lets you constantly build more HP, even if its only like 1 HP at a time and moves really slowly. Just so it more accurately reflects real life. If theres an 8 second Cavalier with the stock block in real life, you should be able to make it in the game.

Let me refine which M3's you should have:

1991 M3 evo3
1995 M3
1995 M3 CSL (aka M3 lightweight)
2001 M3 (this one is overkill)
2002 M3 GTR
2003 M3 CSL
2005 M3 with competition package

I also wouldn't mind seeing some other (mostly classic) BMW's, such as:
the e21, e30, e36, e46, and the new 3'er
the bavaria
the 3.0csl
the 2002tii
the Z1
the M1
the e28, e34, e39, and new M5 (especially the e39)
the M6 (the old one)
the M coupe
the 1987 535is euro model

I love when games have exoitics but it would be sick to be more of street scene. Not like midnight club 3 EHHH! But like tokyo extreme racer... flash your highs to race an yet still be able to race on a track like nur'enburg ring as well. More relistic cost prices to.

BMW so far:
1. ’05 330i
2. ’87 325i E30
3. ’95 325i E36
4. ’03 325i E46 Compact
5. ’91 318i E30 Two Door Sedan
6. ’03 525i
7. ’95 525i
8. ’86 525i
9. ’76 635 CSi
10. ’88 M3 Evolution II
11. ’94 850 Csi
12. ’99 M-Coupe
13. ’99 Z07 Concept
14. ’99 Z9 Concept
15. ’05 M3 Competition
16. ’03 M3 CSL
17. ’05 M6
18. ’05 M5
19. ’06 760Li
20. ’03 Z4 3.0i
21. ’02 M3 GTR Strasse
22. ’01 M3 GTR
23. ’99 V12 LMR
24. ’06 M3

I think it would be good to be able to do a mix of NFS:U2 and GT4, like if you want to do realitic races you can in one part of the game but at the same time if you want to cruise do different races there, the city scene and not you can do that, like a city mode or something.

Also dont overlook my GM list, thats like best of the best that I got there :)

Okay, within the GDD, I have so far the ability to tune your ECU and Turbo/Supercharger according to RPMs. However, I don't necessarily want to express it in the same way that NFS: Underground 2 did (though they did an admirable job for EA).

I'm going to play off a completely clean slate here. How exactly does one modify the crankshafts and pistons. Also, what methods do you think would be BETTER to apply than the balance graph that was used in NFS:U2?

Being able to adjust the boost levels would be cool. Like on a supercharger you could buy different pulley's for it, or buy a boost controller for turbo's...but... Reinforcing the internals would be a good option..see below for example..

By modifying internal components you can have them ground/machined and polished. Say you have an N/A engine with basic internals. Before you could run high boost you would have to get forged pistons, crank etc... Let the game let you run high boost, but if they do, make consequences, and then make them do an engine swap if they blow the engine...such as Toksin mentioned.

For tuning domestics, there's a lot you could do that would also be something for gear heads but not something that noobs would HAVE to do...such as rocker arm clearences, 1.6/1.5 rockers etc...adjusting the valve train components would be cool. Changing the final drive ratio for different types of races would be cool. Like a type of dyno tuning mode like NFS except more in depth tuning would be sweet. Tuning with an SAFC type thing would be cool on dyno's as well. PERFORMANCE ORIENTED GAME PLEASE!!! Let the gamer have total control of how bad or good his car will run, just like in real life, if he can't tune it...he better learn how... Just a few suggestions for now, i'm sure some more will pop in my head, i just thought these would be cool.. If you do this, i will definately buy your game.

What I had in a computer game, that I've yet to see on console, is the ability to change gear ratios. THAT is what I love.

Things to be able to tune:
1. Gear Ratios
2. Compression Ratios
3. Boost (when it hits full)
4. Tire Pressures
5. A/F Ratios
6. Cam lift/duration
7. Stroke
8. Bore
9. 3/5/hi.per. valve grinds
10. Camber
11. Toe
12. weight distribution
13. (stretch) like a windtunnel, where you can see what effects different exterior pieces have on the aerodynamics of the car, and that have an effect on the handling characteristics of the car.

Get some Euro underdogs in there:

Escort Cosworth RS/WRC
Sierra Cosworth WRC
Merkur Scorpio
Merkur XR4ti

Hybrid's? They're coming whether we like it or not.

Maybe have the "leaf blower" option for the cars, instead of turbo or supercharger, so some guys can build an all motor car with a leaf blower and have fun.

It HAS to be on Xbox360 and Xbox Live, AT LEAST.

NOT a lot of exotics or supercars.

REAL WORLD DAMAGE capable of being turned on or off.

Engine Swaps

Transmission swaps

Final Drive Ratio tuning

I'm out of ideas for the moment.

Do we get preproduction releases of the game??

One thing me and my friend were talking about on NFSU

No damage which sucked. So what you can do is this

Have a similar point system like NFS did but it gives you more money if you do it like PERFECT, no wall crashing/scraping, like 50 bucks deducted in the begenning of every race for new tires, then money deducted if you really mess up your car for paint/body damage.

BMW so far:
1. ’05 330i
2. ’87 325i E30 '91 325is
3. ’95 325i E36 325is
4. ’03 325i E46 Compact 325is
5. ’91 318i E30 Two Door Sedan 318is
6. ’03 525i I'd rather have the 530 or 540
7. ’95 525i again I'd rather have the 535 or 540
8. ’86 525i '87 535is euro
9. ’76 635 CSi
10. ’88 M3 Evolution II '91 M3 evo III
11. ’94 850 Csi
12. ’99 M-Coupe
13. ’99 Z07 Concept
14. ’99 Z9 Concept
15. ’05 M3 Competition
16. ’03 M3 CSL
17. ’05 M6
18. ’05 M5
19. ’06 760Li
20. ’03 Z4 3.0i
21. ’02 M3 GTR Strasse
22. ’01 M3 GTR
23. ’99 V12 LMR
24. ’06 M3

There, I changed your list a little. What should be different I put in bold on the side.

Also you should have:
1955 507
1975 3.0CSL
1974 2002tii
1974 2002 turbo
1980 M1
1987 M6 euro (or 635csi euro)
1988 Z1
1994 750i
2001 Z8

a GREAT place to go for advice on the interface for modifications would be the community forum at www.BMWe30.net. They will have excellent input.

I also think it would be cool if you had Alpina, Hartge, and Dinan models of the BMWs. But that would be overkill.

You also have one of all the generations of the M5. www.bmwworld.com if you want to read up.

Being able to adjust the boost levels would be cool. Like on a supercharger you could buy different pulley's for it, or buy a boost controller for turbo's...but... Reinforcing the internals would be a good option..see below for example..

Okay, I have that.
Question: how many stages are there for supercharger pulley upgrades exactly? They key to this is to make it easy to learn, difficult to master. So if I had to break it down in layman's terms, how would you describe it?

By modifying internal components you can have them ground/machined and polished. Say you have an N/A engine with basic internals. Before you could run high boost you would have to get forged pistons, crank etc... Let the game let you run high boost, but if they do, make consequences, and then make them do an engine swap if they blow the engine...such as Toksin mentioned.

Y'know, I just asked this question the other day too. Technically you'll need to add some NA upgrades to withstand the forced induction pressure.

Gotcha'.

For tuning domestics, there's a lot you could do that would also be something for gear heads but not something that noobs would HAVE to do...such as rocker arm clearences, 1.6/1.5 rockers etc...adjusting the valve train components would be cool. Changing the final drive ratio for different types of races would be cool.[/quote]

Now I'm aware of GT's method of this, but it seems like either compressing or expanding the gears. Is this the same thing? If not, then what am I missing?

Like a type of dyno tuning mode like NFS except more in depth tuning would be sweet. Tuning with an SAFC type thing would be cool on dyno's as well.
SAFC?!

Hope you dont do it like NFS did with their chart with Turbo/ECU cause it was horrible, and dont have any guys telling you the same thing over and over once you get out and come back to the same screen.

You should also have some lexuses. Perhaps something like the '95 sc400, '01 is300, '04 sc430, etc. I'm not sure which others would be good for racing. Not the LS series though.

I think this was also already mentioned, but you should make engine swaps and transmission swaps available. There are certain engines and transmissions that are popular to swap between BMWs. The engine and transmission from the '95 m3 is one of these combos.

I would also like to see more realistic prices for cars and modifications.

This is some of the list of modifications available so far. Eat it alive, people, rip it apart and let me know where I need to improve it!!

Upgrade Components (http://www.geocities.com/kahleem_poole/Upgrade_Components.pdf)

You should add the ability to have a standalone engine management system, something like Megasquirt. Then you could incorporate the actual megasquirt software interface into the game, which would be VERY cool.

In your mods list, I spot fiberglass body panels. No, it should be carbon fiber or aluminum. (CF hoods, trunk lids, spoilers, body kits, etc. Aluminum is popular for doors.)

Looking that up right now.

Carbon everything down to teh damn door handles!

BMW 8-series, and all the luxury cars out there, sports sedans, Benz S, E, CL class, BMW 7-series E65, E66, E38, 5, new M6 and M5, and 645Ci, Acura RLs, Range Rovers, I dunno, but you kinda get my picture. Be wide-open about the car selection, make it very variant. Also, when classifying races, do races that use cars that are in the same classes, like do Sport Luxury sedan races, involving the BMW 7-Series, Audi A8, S8, Mercedes S-class, Maserati Quattroporte etc; or SUV races, or capability to do off-road trails, and set the cars controls like hill decent etc like, take the Arizona test trail, and do comparison races like the Range Rover vs. the Hummer H2, and the VW Toureg, and Mercedes Gelandewagen; or mid-sized comparison races, like the Infiniti G35 vs. the BMW 330i.

Free roaming is a huge plus, try to make the car physics as real as possible, and if you can, make cities or large areas available for free roam, like if you can do a big part of NYC available for free roam, while you can still travel to the meadowlands for racing, that would be absoultely amazing, somewhat like the Getaway for PS2 which was based on a 40 square km area of London where you can free roam, and it was designed to very specific details, making the landscape very accurate.

Also, make the characteristics of the different transmissions accurate, like, when accelerating, if an automatic on a car is smooth, then make it smooth in the game, not like a manual. Similar to Gran Turismo, for example, the Mercedes SL65 AMG is an automatic vehicle, but when in the game, it doesn't act like an automatic, it acts like the car has a clutch that the driver has to step on to change gear, it loses the momentum unlike a automatic which is rather smoother. This type of characteristics can be found in Enthusia.

If i have any more suggestions, i will post here.

In all of these newer games the muscle car is left out, or if it is in there it is very poorly done. Add some Chevelle's,Cuda's, Corvette's,Nova's, Roadrunner's,Charger's,Challenger's and anything else you can think of. Don't do what Need for Speed has done and focus mainly on the visual aspect. Add things so you can mess witht the internals of the motor. Do that and I will buy it no matter what the price.

In all of these newer games the muscle car is left out, or if it is in there it is very poorly done. Add some Chevelle's,Cuda's, Corvette's,Nova's, Roadrunner's,Charger's,Challenger's and anything else you can think of. Don't do what Need for Speed has done and focus mainly on the visual aspect. Add things so you can mess witht the internals of the motor. Do that and I will buy it no matter what the price.


:1:

BMW 8-series, and all the luxury cars out there, sports sedans, Benz S, E, CL class, BMW 7-series E65, E66, E38, 5, new M6 and M5, and 645Ci, Acura RLs, Range Rovers, I dunno, but you kinda get my picture. Be wide-open about the car selection, make it very variant. Also, when classifying races, do races that use cars that are in the same classes, like do Sport Luxury sedan races, involving the BMW 7-Series, Audi A8, S8, Mercedes S-class, Maserati Quattroporte etc; or SUV races, or capability to do off-road trails, and set the cars controls like hill decent etc like, take the Arizona test trail, and do comparison races like the Range Rover vs. the Hummer H2, and the VW Toureg, and Mercedes Gelandewagen; or mid-sized comparison races, like the Infiniti G35 vs. the BMW 330i.

Free roaming is a huge plus, try to make the car physics as real as possible, and if you can, make cities or large areas available for free roam, like if you can do a big part of NYC available for free roam, while you can still travel to the meadowlands for racing, that would be absoultely amazing, somewhat like the Getaway for PS2 which was based on a 40 square km area of London where you can free roam, and it was designed to very specific details, making the landscape very accurate.

Also, make the characteristics of the different transmissions accurate, like, when accelerating, if an automatic on a car is smooth, then make it smooth in the game, not like a manual. Similar to Gran Turismo, for example, the Mercedes SL65 AMG is an automatic vehicle, but when in the game, it doesn't act like an automatic, it acts like the car has a clutch that the driver has to step on to change gear, it loses the momentum unlike a automatic which is rather smoother. This type of characteristics can be found in Enthusia.

If i have any more suggestions, i will post here.

Well, I've though a lot about the free roaming aspect. I've decided to do it more along the lines of TXR, where you can drive around a highway and challenge opponents on the fly. One location will be a highway, within the daylight, night time and can lead to an open desert area. The second area can possibly be the Nur itself, as so many execute tests on the course and I can see challenges jumping off randomly. I've also added the Auto Bahn, but I know that this is going to be a b*tch to model for the artists!! :grinyes:

I wanted to stray off from the "big open city" type thing, as it's too Grand Theft Auto-like and promotes laziness in game design. Sometimes, creating barriers causes barriers to be broken and people think out of the box. It's weird, but game design is very psychological (though most of the industry doesn't even realize this).

Well, I've though a lot about the free roaming aspect. I've decided to do it more along the lines of TXR, where you can drive around a highway and challenge opponents on the fly. One location will be a highway, within the daylight, night time and can lead to an open desert area. The second area can possibly be the Nur itself, as so many execute tests on the course and I can see challenges jumping off randomly.

I wanted to stray off from the "big open city" type thing, as it's too Grand Theft Auto-like and promotes laziness in game design. Sometimes, creating barriers causes barriers to be broken and people think out of the box. It's weird, but game design is very psychological (though most of the industry doesn't even realize this).

I'm taking a class on game design this next year. Should be interesting :icon16:

There, I changed your list a little. What should be different I put in bold on the side.

Also you should have:
1955 507
1975 3.0CSL
1974 2002tii
1974 2002 turbo
1980 M1
1987 M6 euro (or 635csi euro)
1988 Z1
1994 750i
2001 Z8

a GREAT place to go for advice on the interface for modifications would be the community forum at www.BMWe30.net. They will have excellent input.

I also think it would be cool if you had Alpina, Hartge, and Dinan models of the BMWs. But that would be overkill.

You also have one of all the generations of the M5. www.bmwworld.com if you want to read up.

Okay, for the models being changed from "i" to "is", are they the same models, i.e. E46? Just want to make sure.

Okay, for the models being changed from "i" to "is", are they the same models, i.e. E46? Just want to make sure.

Yes. And if I didn't change the year also they are the same year. (the ones I did swap the year or model for are of the same body style, as in e30 or e36, but they are the most desireable cars from that same family.) "S" is just a sport package, usually including suspension, seats, steering wheel, body kit, limited slip differential and a few other things I may be forgetting. Mainly it improves handling, stability, and/or the driveability factor.

Yes. And if I didn't change the year also they are the same year. (the ones I did swap the year or model for are of the same body style, as in e30 or e36, but they are the most desireable cars from that same family.) "S" is just a sport package, usually including suspension, seats, steering wheel, body kit, limited slip differential and a few other things I may be forgetting. Mainly it improves handling, stability, and/or the driveability factor.

Ah, okay then. I've already marked up the differences that you've suggested.

I've used the best concepts from some of the best titles available but a clean factor that's never been in any title had to be game design mechanics. Many things factored in from this, such as a character creation system, progressive music that cues according rivalry meets on the course, being able to design your racing outfits with a similar decal/vinyl design interface etc., etc.

Right now, the game is called codename: Project R.

1. Acura
2. Alfa Romeo
3. AMC
4. Aston Martin
5. Audi
6. B. Engineering
7. Bentley
8. Bertone
9. BMW
10. Bristol
11. Bugatti
12. Buick
13. Cadillac
14. Chevrolet
15. Chrysler
16. DC Design
17. Delfino
18. Detomaso
19. Dodge
20. Farboud
21. Ferrari
22. Ford
23. Hispano Suiza
24. Holden
25. Honda
26. Hyundai
27. Infiniti
28. Innotech
29. Italdesign
30. Jaguar
31. Jimenez
32. Jiotto
33. Joss
34. Koenigsegg
35. Lamborghini
36. Lincoln
37. Lotus
38. Maserati
39. Mazda
40. Mc Laren
41. Mercedes
42. Mercury
43. MG
44. Mini
45. Mitsubishi
46. Nissan
47. Noble
48. Oldsmobile
49. Opel
50. Pagani
51. Panoz
52. Plymouth
53. Pontiac
54. Porsche
55. Protomotors
56. Renault
57. Saab
58. Saleen
59. Saturn
60. Scion
61. Seat
62. Shelby
63. Škoda
64. Stealth
65. Subaru
66. Suzuki
67. Tommy Kaira
68. Toyota
69. Trident
70. TVR
71. Ultima Sports Ltd.
72. Volkswagen
73. Volvo

Like I mentioned, the game WILL be expensive, as it's the reason for being a way-off for development right now. As a result, there will be a great number of intertwined deals that can help us work with more expensive licenses. Plus, being able to use Unreal Engine 3.0 for a racing title is a first.

We will be using a strong downloadable content model, plus expansion updates (which is why having a harddrive out of the box is so important. Many people on my team have their fingers crossed for Sony to do the right thing in this category; PS3). So while we may have a ton of cars and courses available from the initial GDD, it may be somewhat unrealistic to think that we can fit them ALL on the first try. Hence why we have to fit the licenses FIRST and then all of the cars progressively once the ball gets rolling.

One thing me and my friend were talking about on NFSU

No damage which sucked. So what you can do is this

Have a similar point system like NFS did but it gives you more money if you do it like PERFECT, no wall crashing/scraping, like 50 bucks deducted in the begenning of every race for new tires, then money deducted if you really mess up your car for paint/body damage.

We will have damage modeling, that's for sure; external and performace based. These are some of the components that can be worn out and or damaged within races:

Clutch
Transmission
General Engine wear (acceleration, top-end speed)
Forced induction (turbo charger, super charger)
Rollcage
Brakes
Suspension- shocks, springs

However, consider that not every license allows damage to their vehicles, so that also requires more "put out" on our part. But we're more than prepared for that, which is even noted within the GDD. While the game won't be on the level of say, Burnout 3/ Revenge, it will be along the lines of GTR, Colin McRae and or TOCA Race Driver 2/ 3. Only much more in-depth from a performance value.

So... will it be the new gran turismo? That's what I want to know. lol


Also be sure to include the Mercedes 190E. The AMG version of it would be excellent as well.

In all of these newer games the muscle car is left out, or if it is in there it is very poorly done. Add some Chevelle's,Cuda's, Corvette's,Nova's, Roadrunner's,Charger's,Challenger's and anything else you can think of. Don't do what Need for Speed has done and focus mainly on the visual aspect. Add things so you can mess witht the internals of the motor. Do that and I will buy it no matter what the price.

Don't worry, man. We're way ahead of you:

Dodge-
1. ’96 Viper GTS
2. ’89 Viper RT/10 Concept
3. ’97 Copperhead Concept
4. ’99 Charger R/T Concept
5. ’02 Stratus Turbo Concept
6. ’03 Viper Competition Coupe
7. ’03 Viper SRT-10
8. ’03 Viper SRT-10 Carbon
9. ’04 “Hot Rod” Magnum
10. ’05 Magnum RT
11. ’06 Charger SRT-8
12. ’03 Neon SRT-4
13. ’03 SRT-4 Extreme Concept
14. ’04 Mopar Daytona Ram
15. ’04 Ram SRT-10
16. ’69 Dodge Charger R/T
17. ’98 Avenger
18. ’73 Challenger
19. ’76 Monaco
20. ’70 Coronet
21. 00’ Intrepid ES
22. ’88 Lancer
23. ’94 Spirit
24. ’04 Stratus
25. ’72 Demon
26. ’02 Dakota

Ford-
1. ’69 Mustang Mach 1
2. ’70 Mustang Boss 429
3. ’69 Mustang Boss 302
4. ’85 Ford RS200
5. ’87 Sierra RS500 Cosworth
6. ’92 Escort RS Cosworth
7. ’00 SVT Mustang Cobra R
8. ’05 Shelby Cobra GT500
9. ’05 Ford Sport Trac Adrenalin Concept
10. ’05 Mustang GT
11. ’05 Ford FPV F6 Typhoon
12. ’04 Mustang GT-R Concept
13. ’03 Visos Concept
14. ’03 Mustang Mach 1
15. ’02 SVT Focus
16. ’01 Ford Focus FR200
17. ’03 Falcon
18. ’76 Falcon
19. ’89 Falcon
20. ’66 Fairlane
21. ’77 Taunus
22. ’92 Tempo
23. ’96 Thunderbird
24. ’72 Maverick
25. ’92 Sierra
26. ’99 Laser
27. ’98 Puma
28. ’72 Gran Torino
29. ’07 SVT Sport Trac
30. ’93 Mustang Mach III Concept
31. ’04 SVT Lighting
32. ’02 Harley F-150

Chevrolet-
1. ’63 Corvette Z06
2. ’67 Camaro Z/28
3. ’69 Camaro ZL-1
4. ’70 Chevelle SS 454
5. ’87 Camaro IROC-Z
6. ’91 Corvette
7. ’99 Corvette C5-R
8. ’01 Corvette Tiger Shark Concept
9. ’02 Corvette Z06
10. ’06 Impala SS
11. ’05 Corvette Show & Go
12. ’04 Cobalt SS Supercharged Coupe Concept
13. ’04 Cobalt SS Supercharged Sedan Concept
14. ’01 Camaro Z28
15. ’95 Impala
16. ’05 Aveo Hatchback
17. ’05 Aveo Sedan
18. ’91 Corsica
19. ’06 Corvette Z06
20. ’06 Monte Carlo SS
21. ’05 C6-R
22. ’03 SSR
23. S-10
24. Silverado
25. ’69 Camaro Yenko
26. ’69 Nova Yenko

So... will it be the new gran turismo? That's what I want to know. lol


Also be sure to include the Mercedes 190E. The AMG version of it would be excellent as well.

LOL, oh it'll be going MUCH more farther than that. GT is good for test driving and car collecting, but little else. I love the game, don't get me wrong. But as a gearhead and a hardcore gamer, I'd be crazy to say that the title doesn't need to dramatically evolve already.

I already know that they'll be adding more "basic" additions to the next title, like online play and damage modeling. However, they still seem to be missing many components that gearheads have wanted for so long. Such as the engine, transmission, drivetrain (being able to turn a FWD car into a RWD car) swaps.

There's just TOO many little things that have to be factored in.

BTW: for the 190E, what's the last and best model for this body type/style?

BTW: for the 190E, what's the last and best model for this body type/style?

I don't know exactly, but I can find out by tomorrow. I'm not a real big mercedes guy, I just know that the original m3 was built specifically to dethrone the 190e in the german touring car races.

Dodge Daytona / Plymouth Roadrunner Superbird.
Plymouth Baracuda (426)
Dodge Hemi Dart (426)
Ford Fairlane T-bolt
A/C / Shelby Cobra
'69 Corvette Stingray ZL1 427
AMC AMX/Javelin
Jensen Interceptor III
Sunbeam Tiger
The triumph squadron :P (TR1-8)


You gotta have them in there

Also Make sure that certain engine swaps can only go in certain cars (no W16's in say, a mini cooper)

And for the more graphically inclined people, the ability to directly import skins would be a plus, same with music.
If I could paint my car however I want, then I'd be a happy person :)

This game is sounding pretty nice

I'm gonna suggest a mid-80's Thunderbird or Cougar. Sweet cars. A bit underpowered because of the early Ford fuel-injection technology, but they're lightweight machines. They're really overlooked in a lot of games.

Dodge Daytona / Plymouth Roadrunner Superbird.
Plymouth Baracuda (426)
Dodge Hemi Dart (426)
Ford Fairlane T-bolt
A/C / Shelby Cobra
'69 Corvette Stingray ZL1 427
AMC AMX/Javelin
Jensen Interceptor III
Sunbeam Tiger
The triumph squadron :P (TR1-8)


You gotta have them in there

Also Make sure that certain engine swaps can only go in certain cars (no W16's in say, a mini cooper)

And for the more graphically inclined people, the ability to directly import skins would be a plus, same with music.
If I could paint my car however I want, then I'd be a happy person :)

This game is sounding pretty nice

I remember in the original NFS:Underground, you were able to apply your decal/vinyl skin to another vehicle and also can do so in Juiced. I've added this feature as well, plus being able to share this skin with other members of your Team Listing for unification on the online/LAN courses (oop, did I just give something away?).

FREE ROAM CITY

This sounds good. As for the Mercedes 190E: the best version is called 190E 2.5-16 Evolution II. Only 502 cars were made. It will be good to have M3 Sport Evolution, Opel Lotus Omega ( or Vauxhall Lotus Carlton ) and Lancia Thema 8.32 there too. And do not forget Group B rally cars from 1982-1986. Each car was also made as road version for homologation. If you need more info about those cars, I can help you. I am collecting car brochures and have some about them. I will also have very good books about them in few weeks.

This sounds good. As for the Mercedes 190E: the best version is called 190E 2.5-16 Evolution II. Only 502 cars were made. It will be good to have M3 Sport Evolution, Opel Lotus Omega ( or Vauxhall Lotus Carlton ) and Lancia Thema 8.32 there too. And do not forget Group B rally cars from 1982-1986. Each car was also made as road version for homologation. If you need more info about those cars, I can help you. I am collecting car brochures and have some about them. I will also have very good books about them in few weeks.

Hey thanks, man!!

I was thinking about Rally vehicles, but that's really a very different dynamic physics engine altogether. Honestly, we wouldn't want to half-ass it as a feature that goes along with another complete game (right, Polyphony?).

However, mentioning that these cars were used for street use as well does help as many of them used very distinct bodykits/widebody kits.

:grinyes:

1987 Buick Grand National GNX...please

Is this going to be online?


Edit: At the end credits, it would be cool if you put a special thanks to all of our login names from automotiveforums.com :wink:

1987 Buick Grand National GNX...please

Is this going to be online?

I already have it, man. I'd be crazy not to include a vehicle with potential to skyrocket in the 1000hp range.

Online play is essential for the game, but much more than the basic multiplayer that's involved for every racer available on the market. Here's a small taste: being able to play the part of a Coach, while giving off tips, advice and strategies for others on the track. Team play (which I spilled before) with either simultaneous play or relay races.

We're still going through more designs within the multiplayer areas, but again, nothing necessarily conventional. We're not trying to "lean" on some online service to do the work for us via complete laziness and then sit back and collect the dividends. Which is what MOST game developers do.

Well in that case how about being able to upgrade to the ultimate Grand National engine, the stage 2 engine. Andy also used to tell me about a turbo that he had, it was one of like a few hundred made for the Grand National, i'll try and see what it was, but those could be like, the ultimate upgrades for this car in the game. And damn near impossible to get...i like a challenge.

Well in that case how about being able to upgrade to the ultimate Grand National engine, the stage 2 engine. Andy also used to tell me about a turbo that he had, it was one of like a few hundred made for the Grand National, i'll try and see what it was, but those could be like, the ultimate upgrades for this car in the game. And damn near impossible to get...i like a challenge.

Looks like the GNX (think I answered my question Grand National=GN). But what're the significant differences between the GN and the GNX?

'84 Merkur XR4ti and Scorpio
Ford Sierra RS500
THIS RS500 to be exact:
http://www.nwaimports.com/forums/uploads/post-31-1110382488.jpg
He was banned for being soo dominant.

Ford Escort RS2000 F1 Edition

If you put in Merkur's and RARE Euro Ford Rally cars, I (along with a BUNCH of friends) will buy the game regardless of price, and the system with which to run it.

What I had in a computer game, that I've yet to see on console, is the ability to change gear ratios. THAT is what I love.

Things to be able to tune:
1. Gear Ratios
2. Compression Ratios
3. Boost (when it hits full)
4. Tire Pressures
5. A/F Ratios
6. Cam lift/duration
7. Stroke
8. Bore
9. 3/5/hi.per. valve grinds
10. Camber
11. Toe
12. weight distribution
13. (stretch) like a windtunnel, where you can see what effects different exterior pieces have on the aerodynamics of the car, and that have an effect on the handling characteristics of the car.



'kay, I've been pondering your list for awhile now. How exactly would you tune these options. Do you have screenshots of which game did this for refrence? I'm all for best suggestions!! Some I'm already familiar with, i.e. the gear ratios, suspension tuning, tyre pressure. However, others like Stroke, Bore, valve grinds tuning, I'm not aware of.

BTW: what is A/F Ratios?

Looks like the GNX (think I answered my question Grand National=GN). But what're the significant differences between the GN and the GNX?


Best answer right here

The biggest difference is in the suspension. Other difference were as follows. Different turbo with a ceramic turbine for faster spool up, Analoge gauges packs in the dash, different EPROM in the pcm (chip), front functional fender louvers, fender flares. Also the GN badges were replaced with GNX badges and the cars number was placed on the passenger side dash borad.

'84 Merkur XR4ti and Scorpio
Ford Sierra RS500
THIS RS500 to be exact:
http://www.nwaimports.com/forums/uploads/post-31-1110382488.jpg
He was banned for being soo dominant.

Ford Escort RS2000 F1 Edition

If you put in Merkur's and RARE Euro Ford Rally cars, I (along with a BUNCH of friends) will buy the game regardless of price, and the system with which to run it.

You'll be glad to know that I have the RS500 Sierra listed already. What year is the Escort RS2000 F1 though?

Best answer right here

So these improvements were for the GNX, right? If so, then I'll simply use that one rather than the previous GN. I don't want to repeat too many cars, consider also that you'll be able to upgrade them anyhow. Essentially turning a GN into a GNX, so mind as well stick with the GNX to an extent. Plus I do plan on adding aero kits for nearly EVERY car, regardless of regional origin. It's just a matter of utilizing the aftermarket tuner companies that support it, or our own logical aero designs in-house.

Nothing ridiculously gaudy like Midnight Club 3 or Underground 2, however.

Dont get to wild with the aero kits, i dont care if you make it available to the GNX, just dont make it a requirement to put that stuff on to advance far into the game *cough* NFS *cough*. Also the GNX is one of the ultimate Domestic driving machines and shouldn't be easy to get.

Maybe a graphic "Hypsi87" on the GNX.

Or make that the license plate, that would be cool.

Yea thats what I was putting in my edit but you beat me to it!

Dont get to wild with the aero kits, i dont care if you make it available to the GNX, just dont make it a requirement to put that stuff on to advance far into the game *cough* NFS *cough*. Also the GNX is one of the ultimate Domestic driving machines and shouldn't be easy to get.

LOL, don't worry about that. Undergrounds kits were purely for cosmetic value and had very little effect other than default downforce options here n' there. My concern with aerokits are weight, effectiveness and yes, there will be a Wind Tunnel mode to test our your aero parameters. However, it not a gameplay advancement requirement.

I did add the options of license plate customization awhile back, but in this case, I mind as well add the same vinyl custom UI for the license plates as well to accomplish the feat that you've described.

See, that's exactly why I'm here.

EDIT 11:29 AM UPDATE:
Just added the "license plate" graphic UI to the GDD. Plus the aforementioned vehicle updates.

'kay, I've been pondering your list for awhile now. How exactly would you tune these options. Do you have screenshots of which game did this for refrence? I'm all for best suggestions!!

BTW: what is A/F Ratios?
1. Gear Ratios - Be able to adjust
2. Compression Ratios - Change out pistons or deck head/block
3. Boost (when it hits full) - i dont know how it's done, but some people prefer late boost
4. Tire Pressures - self explained
5. A/F Ratios - Air/Fuel ratio. Basically able to slightly alter fuel maps to make the car run richer or leaner
6. Cam lift/duration - custom ground cam swaps, i guess
7. Stroke - crank swap
8. Bore - to increase displacement
9. 3/5/hi.per. valve grinds - part of Port & Polish, usually
10. Camber - tire angle compared to road
11. Toe - tire angle compared to each other
12. weight distribution - wedge as used in NASCAR racing games
13. (stretch) like a windtunnel, where you can see what effects different exterior pieces have on the aerodynamics of the car, and that have an effect on the handling characteristics of the car. - never seen this one, but sounds cool.

Most these ideas are from an older NASCAR racing game I played on computer a LOT and managed a car to run 250+mph on Talledega(sp?)

What year is the Escort RS2000 F1
1996