90 Accord serious starting problem...please help!

90 Accord serious starting problem...please help! (Post #1)

My car has been having trouble lately. First went the VSS and honda wanted $600-700 to fix it along with my main relay. I replaced the VSS for only $40 (ebay cost). However, I am thinking now that my other problem was not the main relay...even though most forums have led me to this guess. Here's what is happening:

It starts and runs perfectly, but when I leave it out in the sun....specifically out in the sun and it gets all hot inside...it will turn over easily but won't fire up. Ocassionally when this happens it will start and then quickly cut out and then I'll have to wait a while till it cools off and it will start. Or if I would hook up cables to it the car would start. The honda tech said this was because it would then give it enough "juice" to power the fuel pump. So everything pointed to the main relay but I took it out and tested it and it was fine. All the solder points were fine. So I drilled 4 holes in the housing to help it vent just in case and put the relay back in.

Then just today I was driving with cruise on going about 65mph and the cruise light went off and the speedo started descending. That's when I realized that the engine just cut out! It won't start! It makes a totally different noise when trying to turn over. It sounds a lot weaker, however I do here the relay click and the fuel pump turn on. It makes a weak attempt to start with a sort of clicking noise.

What could this be? (searching says that it could be the coil, ignitor, or ECU?) Keep in mind that nothing has been done to fix the original starting problem when it gets hot from the sun. And now this? Could they be related? Anyone have this happen?

Chris

it sounds like the battery is weak causing it to slowly turn over? that sound like and alternator... test to see if youre getting spark...

ok...pretty sure my battery and alternator are fine

about to go test for spark

then check to see if youre getting spark.

ok i checked to see if i am getting a spark and I am NOT getting a spark. I also noticed that the plug wires are pretty coroded on the inside there by the distributor? Could that be it, Or would it most likely be the coil and or igniter?

also, what else would be affected by the sun that would temporarily prevent power to the main relay and thus to the fuel pump?

ok, id do a tune up first... maybe your dizzy cap and rotor are fried...if your still not gettting spark, check to se if the ignitor is bad (i cant remember off hand how, but you need a multimeter)

my plug wires were coroded so i replaced them along with a tune up and new rotor and cap...still nothing.

looking in to how to check ignitor

still no spark...anyone?

update:

i got a honda service manual today in the mail (ebay) and did the igniter test. i am pretty sure the coil is good and the igniter unit is not. this is what could be preventing spark right? the manual isn't clear but that would make sense. also, could this affect the main relay at all? (wondering if they are related problems). i put my buddy's working relay and a junkyard relay and they all act the same in my car...also his started with my relays. but he was just visiting and i can't get his car again to try out the module.

any other comments or ideas?

congrat on finding the problem, change the ignitor and see if it still acts up.

-should that camshaft end where the distributor joins spin when i try to start the car? because it is not and someone suggested to look at that. possible timing belt? would this give me no spark?

yes, when u try to start the car, the cam should spin, therefor spinning the dizzy, if the dizzy doesnt spin, no spark... possible timing belt, or worse, broken camshaft. also, in either case, make sure you didnt bend or break any valves.

went in and found the snapped timing belt...which explains the slight vibration i heard there weeks before it went. i also have a little bit of clear green fluid dripping but its not bad. its coming from above the rear balancer belt pulley. i think i remember seeing this before it broke though. the honda dealer said i probably didn't bust any valves. i am in the process of replacing the belt now...this manual is nice. any help checking these valves, location of water pump, and anything else needed while this is all open would be appreciated.
thanks.
chris

replace your water pump while your in there, cuz the removal of the timin belt is needed to chage it anyway. and the greenish fluid is most likely coolant, which is prolly your water pump.. and trust me youll know if you bent valves when u start it up for the first time.

thanks man...let me get a movin' :o)

replaced the belts and water pump. it started, but it runs a little rough. not rough as in bent valves, but as in off time a little. i think it is off a groove. it hesitates a little when i give it throttle. im going to try to retime it. any other ideas? any thought that it could be the valves?

get the timing right on, dont forget to jump the service connector, otherwise the ECU will try and fix the timing while your adjusting it and thats a bitch.

wait...can you explain that a little better? it is running pretty rough. i sure hope its not the valves! would it delay like that as a result of the bent valves or is this something more simple like just sliding the distributor? also, would only a valve cause it to hesitate when i give it throttle, or can the distributor (out of time with flywheel) cause this?

is the service connector that wire under the right passenger side under glovebox? why would the ECU try to fix a mechanical problem?

the ECU can adjust timing through the ignition to a certain point.. yes, the service connecter is under the Pass. side dash.. and timing, bent valve...could all be issues causing the hesitaion... do a compresstion check to check if the valves are sealing and adjust the timing.

ok...is there any easy way to do a compression check? i read somewhere in here about a little $25 vaccum tool or something? i've never done this before.

yep, you need a compression gauge.

ok...i went back and moved the front balancer belt pully over a notch and the rough idle went away! i still have a bad hesitation though and i have tried adjusting the distibutor. i noticed that the exhaust in back sounds weird like a "boggy put put"

ok guys...so i got a compression tester and couldn't get a reading even though i followed the instructions properly. turns out the tester came busted NIB. i know this because i swapped it for a better one and i got readings...

ALL CYLINDERS were 190 +/- like say 3 or so. Is this good? What does this mean. Are my valves ok? I am getting a gas smell out of my exhaust. And when i pulled one of my plugs off while it was running a couple days ago it didn't change the way the motor was running. Any ideas that can help me where I am at now?

Thanks for all the help guys...I SO want to be able to drive my car! I am scared to drive it as it is now.

GOT IT!!!! Everyone laugh with me...i had a plug wire swapped with another! Now it purrs nice, but when I went to put it in gear for the first time it was hard to so I slid it in reverse and then it went forward easily. I only pulled it forward about 10 feet in my driveway and noticed when I got out and it was running that there was a noise coming from where the timing belt is located. The thought of having to take it all apart again is kind of a bummer, but anything is better than bad valves so I am thankful.

Just thought this might have something to do with the rough pull into first before I reversed it. Any ideas? Otherwise I guess I will take it apart again and make sure the belt is tight and so on...even though I triple checked it.

I am excited that this project is almost complete. I have learned a lot since I started and am excited to be on the road again.

Thanks,
Chris

noise is SO faint. i can barely hear it. it is hard to hear over the engine i bet it is just me. i am just being very cautious because i don't want this to happen again.

its on the road and running great now, thanks for all the help. i will just keep a careful ear on the timing belt from now on. i think the timing is JUST BARELY OFF, but its still running smooth. just every so often while idling it will BARELY idle a tad lower for a plit second and then go back up.