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Weird noise from front end


90blackcrx
07-11-2005, 05:28 PM
Ok guys, I'm stumpped. And there is really no easy way to test these things out, so I turned to you guys


I have a noise coming from the front end on a 1999 lumina. The noise sounds like a grinding/squeeking kind of noise. It happens when driving normally, or just about any other time. I looked at everything and everything seems fine, no loose bolts or anything. I greased up the jounce bumper and the sway bar bushings and the noise kind of went away but came back. Before I tear up the front end ( still can't beleive GM changed this strut setup so its basically welded in ) anyways what would you suggest looking at ? The tires did seem to be wearing unevenly but I don't think its related. I think it might be a bushing inside the strut assembly. Maybe the upper strut bushing or jounce bumper. Any ideas on how to check these things ? By the way, the noise does occur if you push on the front end, its pretty loud when your outside the car.

richtazz
07-12-2005, 03:28 PM
sounds like a bad strut mount to me. Does the noise increase or decrease in frequency with speed, like a bad hub bearing, or is more related to suspension movement and steering changes?

90blackcrx
07-12-2005, 04:18 PM
Its weird, it happens only when it wants to. If you pull out of a drive way slowly, it does it. But then sometimes it won't

Are you talking about the metal piece that has the studs on it, that goes threw the chassis ? Sits on top of the strut ?

http://www.trademotion.com/schematics/images/mechanical/MWP040.gif

Number 4 is the strut mount

I got the diagram in a book, I can't beleive, in order to get this strut out, instead of the 2 simple bolts that attach it, GM changed the design, you have to take the ball joint, hub/knuckle steering knuckle off and the axle in order to get the strut out.

Can you explain to me why it would be the strut mount ? I like to understand why you came up with that.

I like to learn :)

jeffcoslacker
07-13-2005, 05:55 AM
Upper mounts and bearing plates are prone to wear that causes noise, they eat a lot of grit and salt, with no way to really get flushed out. They are just crud traps, and make all kinds of squeaks, creaks, grunts and pops when they start going bad.

I've seen a few that were frozen solid from rust and bearing damage, that when you turned the steering wheel the top was staying in place, and the coil spring was "winding" when the wheel was turned instead of turning with the assembly. The customer notices it as hard steering effort with a hard return to center, like the power steering isn't working well.

I always wondered how much noise they had to be ignoring before they got that bad.

90blackcrx
07-13-2005, 10:55 AM
So are we talking about part number 4 ? Do you think I can loosen the spring and strut nut ( of course when compressed ) and get the strut mount off while its still in the car, if I pull it out in the wheel well ?

Reason being is, GM changed the design and in order to get the strut/spring out, you have to take the axle,ball joint, steering knuckle off, so I'm trying to avoid that.

jeffcoslacker
07-13-2005, 11:30 AM
As long as you seperate the tie rod from the knuckle, it will probably swing low and out enough to access, yes.

Seems you are worried unneccessarily about seperating the ball joint and halfshaft from it, though. There's nothing to it.

But if you don't want to, you can also just unbolt the lower control arm from the body, and let it drop that way too. There is no spring tension on it, so it goes right back in place pretty easy. Make sure you don't pull the shaft's inner joint apart if you aren't going to release it from the spindle. They are a pain to get back together by feel.

90blackcrx
07-13-2005, 12:18 PM
I just wanted to get around all that. The spring/strut is part of the steering/knuckle. I mean, if I want the strut and spring completly out. I have to remove a lot of things, including draining the auto trans fluid. More then I want to do, and more then the customer wants to pay.

I can handle it but was just seeing if there was an easier way.

I'm thinking now though, if I undo the axle nut, that would be the only thing not letting the control arm fall all the way correct ? I mean there is nothing else holding it, that I can think of atleast. And I have the diagram here and I see nothing else holding it on and the brake line and tie rod. Then it would fall pretty much so I would have enough room to change it.

But how sure are you its the strut mount ? I mean these parts are $26 a piece, I can't tell the customer it might be this or that you know.

kevinb70
07-14-2005, 10:00 PM
GM put out a TSB on this ... I believe the fix is to add some rubber bushing they designed on top of your strut. My car has the same popping noise at the struts... I don't worry about it.

Here it is:

53-33-07B 980701 Front Suspension - Scrunching/Popping Noise

File In Section: 3 - Steering/Suspension

Bulletin No.: 53-33-07B

Date: July, 1998

Subject:
Front Suspension Scrunch/Pop Noise
(Install Front Suspension Jounce Washer)

Models:
1994-96 Buick Regal
1994-98 Chevrolet Lumina
1995-98 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1994-97 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
1994-96 Pontiac Grand Prix

This bulletin is being revised to add the 1998 model year for Chevrolet. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 53-33-07A (Section 3 - Steering/Suspension).

Condition

Some vehicles may exhibit a scrunch/popping type noise coming from the front of vehicle that is apparent during low speed turning maneuvers.

Cause

Slip-stick condition that occurs between front suspension strut bumper and front strut closure nut.

Correction

Install a front suspension jounce washer, P/N 10403367, on each front strut assembly following service procedure indicated.

Service Procedure

Caution Do not perform this service procedure unless the weight of the vehicle is on the suspension. The weight of the vehicle keeps the coil spring compressed, otherwise the released coil spring could cause personal injury

1. Scribe strut cover to body to assure proper camber adjustment.

2. Remove strut mount cover by removing three cover nuts.

3. Remove strut shaft nut using No. 50 torx bit and nut remover/installer, J 35669.

4. Remove strut mount insulator by prying with a suitable tool.

5. Attach strut extension rod, J 35668, and remove strut bumper.






6. Install jounce washer, P/N 10403367, as shown in illustration, and snap into position over strut closure nut.

7. Install jounce bumper.

8. Raise strut shaft and remove strut extension rod, J 35668.

9. Install strut mount insulator.

^ Use a soap solution to lubricate insulator for ease of installation.

^ If necessary, install J 35668 after insulator is partially installed and position strut as required to assist in insulator installation.


10. Install shaft nut using No. 50 torx bit and nut remover/installer, J 35669.

11. Torque shaft nut to 98 N.m (72 lb ft).

12. Install strut mount cover and nuts, align scribe marks and torque cover nuts to 33 N.m (24 lb ft).

13. Repeat steps 2 through 12 for front strut on opposite side of vehicle.


Parts Information

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.

Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation Labor Time

E3917 0.6 hr

90blackcrx
07-14-2005, 10:51 PM
Thats for a 98 though, the car is a 99. I have all the tsb's for it. In 98 they did add a washer on top of the strut though

jeffcoslacker
07-15-2005, 01:53 PM
I just wanted to get around all that. The spring/strut is part of the steering/knuckle. I mean, if I want the strut and spring completly out. I have to remove a lot of things, including draining the auto trans fluid. More then I want to do, and more then the customer wants to pay.

You lost me. Why would you have to drain it? :confused:


I'm thinking now though, if I undo the axle nut, that would be the only thing not letting the control arm fall all the way correct ?


But how sure are you its the strut mount ? I mean these parts are $26 a piece, I can't tell the customer it might be this or that you know.

You'll have to release the stabilizer bar from the control arm also.

I'm not sure...you are the one looking at it. It could be anything. Shoot some lube up in there from top and bottom and see if it changes temporarily....

90blackcrx
07-15-2005, 02:18 PM
I would have to drain it if I pulled the axle out, it says to in the manual. But do you need to ? I know on Honda's you can pull the axle and a little bit of fluid will drip, but it won't rush out.

90blackcrx
07-16-2005, 03:44 PM
Looked at the car today, the noise is getting worse which made it a lot easier to find the problem.

Its the lower control arm bushings. The squak really bad, I was gonna take the swary bar off but 1 bolt was a paint. So I lubbed up the bushings up and put it back on the ground, when I pushed on the front end the noise was gone. But when I did drive the car, it was still making a little noise, not bad though. So I'm thinking the car is stronger then me so it could make the noise.

Anyways does the swary bar bushings ever go bad ? And if so, would they make noise when pushing on the front end.

I really think its the lower control arm bushings because I lubbed them up only and the noise stopped.

I did spray a little pb blaster on the one swary bar bolt and I got one bolt off but I put it back on, I don't think that would of cause the noise to stop.

paulfischer
07-17-2005, 03:00 PM
I have a 99 also, and i have the same grunt form the front end. And what i do every spring and fall is take the bushings out, clean them and lube them up. And the noise has stayed away for 3 years now.
I also had a 96 Grand prix and 98 Grand Am, that had same noise, and when I would take it for a warranty repair, that is what they did.
They blamed it on the salts from the IL winters etc etc etc....

90blackcrx
07-17-2005, 07:15 PM
Do you need a press though for the bushings to come out and put them back in ?

paulfischer
07-18-2005, 07:03 AM
I just lube the ones on the sway bar. I loosen the bolts, bushing comes out, clean everything, than lube the bushing up, put it back in.

90blackcrx
07-18-2005, 11:40 AM
Do you need a press though for the bushings to come out and put them back in ?

But I need to know if the lower control arm bushings need to be pressed out

jeffcoslacker
07-19-2005, 07:57 AM
I just use a bench vice, and a socket that fits the metal part of the bushing. by placing it in the right position in the vice with the socket over the bushing, you can press them out and in. Use a lot of wd-40!

I don't usually even mess with trying to loosen old stabilizer end links, they are only like $10 a set, so I just put a long socket and extension over the end of the bolt and rock 'em back and forth until they snap off, then put the new set in on reassembly.

They usually won't make noises unless broken or a bushing pops out, then they make a loud clacking sound on rebound.

No, I don't drain the tranny to pull a shaft. Just put some kitty litter on the floor, and whatever comes out, comes out. Not much, usually.

90blackcrx
07-19-2005, 12:34 PM
Hmm, still wondering if I could pop the bushings in and out with out a press. I know you said you could but if I can't I'm in trouble. Anyways thanks for all the help guys

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