Too popular?

As I said in the Ferrari thread,

It seems that in this day and age, the exclusivity of brands such Bentley, Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini and even Porsche has been lost. It's no mystery that these brands have been selling well, more people and more money obviously facilitate growth, but somewhere along the line, the sincere character of such brands has been taken over in favour of wider profit margins, and conformity to mainstream designs.

I said it before, but I'll restate for those who didn't read the other thread. Every time I read a Men's Magazine (FHM, Stuff, Maxim) there's articles about Pro Athletes fleet of luxury vehicles. These almost always include one or more Mercedes, Bentleys, Ferraris, Rolls Royces and in the rarer cases a Lamborghini or BMW. Not that there's anything wrong with fluanting success, I would, but it's the frequency of these trends. Almost EVERY one of these individuals has the same brand, similar if not same model, with the some ridiculous set of spinners and a sound system worthy on par with a Cinema. This extends to anyone of significance in the music business, and even dips into the film industry.

The problem I have with this, is that the majority of these companies spent generations creating a product that was supposed to be the finest vehicles created with the utmost attention to detail and quality. People bought them because they appreciated these things, and usually worked very hard to acquire them. They were connisseurs who could appreciate every last detail of these machines, and treat them as they were meant to be treated.

No, before it makes me look like I despise everyone who has one of these cars, because they aren't racing them or driving them to Country Clubs or other traditional things, I don't. I just want to know what happened to these days, when you had to be a racecar driver to own a Ferrari, when an automobile sporting a flying B, or Spirit of Ecstasy was more than a lyric in the latest chart topper.

Mind you, in recent years, the production and modernization of a lot fo these manufacturers have led to production numbers doubling, tripling and even quadrapuling in some instances. I think this is part of the problem, once you make more of something, it loses value in one way or another. Profits can be a very driving force however, and I'd rather see this than bankruptcy, but I think most companies could stand to trim production without that fear.

It feels as though most of these new age individuals, despite what they claim, have these cars because they can, not because they want to. They don't seem to understand that these cars are a privilege, not a right. Given the salaries that some athletes and Artists make, it's almsot mandatory that they buy the best simply because it is the usually the most expensive, not because it is the best.

At some point, my repsect for these marques began to wane. As a kid, I was beaming for days if I saw a Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, or Ferrari. Now, I seem them everywhere, on MTV, every music video is like a rolling exotic car dealership. In the news, I can read about the latest high speed crash involving some Pro Athlete, or Magazine featuring some new money mogul bragging about $10,000 rims on their new Benz. As an enthusiast, I'm left wondering, where has all the fervor gone? Blame the media if you'd like, but they are only a medium.

In the end, I've found sanctuary in brands like RUF, Noble, Alpina, Koenigsegg, Panoz and even Lotus. They maintain the exclusivity that was practically invented by the others, they make cars people can lust over, they make cars with a passion. They don't roll of assembly lines, and owners are measured in hundreds, not thousands. These cars are close to perfection upon completion, and are only appreciated by those who take the road less traveled.

Thanks for those who took the time to read it.

I don't know. To me you grouped everything too broadly. Can you really compare the bently to a 460 spyder, in terms of being a real drivers car. Also the car matters to me more than the name attached to it. I see avoiding certain cars because u feel there is market saturation as shallow as buying a car for the same reason.


As an auto Enthusiaist does the name, reputation, and exclusivity of a car matter more than how it drives?

I did group them broadly, the rant was more about the name than the type of car. We all know Ferraris aren't Bentleys.

While the car itself matters a great deal, the name on the hood is the time-tested signature of, in some cases, decades of race history and throughbred predecessors that pioneered that name. Exclusivity and reputation are not defining factors, but they are the topic of this rant. I never said I dislike any of the the first mentioned brands, only that I felt they lost their edge. The second list of brands were ones I felt can match the performance and luxury of the more mainstream ones, without the undue attention and garish accessories.

One last thing to add; (JCSaleen fostered this bit) Notice how nowadays these tops marques are only 'okay'? Nobody gets excited around them anymore. Not the way a lot of people I know did anyways.

Well the wide spread sickness is all over this generation. As I stated in my sig............."The creators rarely get the credit they deserve from their followers"


Many views and aspects can be put toward the quote.

i know what you mean, ive seen so many darn porsches and one guy around town has a blue lamborghini. i dont care anymore. i think the real auto enthusiasts would go for the cars that are classic and have some history(like a ferrari F40, <3) or something, not the newest and greatest. one thing that makes me mad is what you said about athletes and whatnot bein able to buy tons of these high end cars while the true enthusiasts usually labor for them, one instance is how ferrari mandated that if you wanted an enzo, you had to buy i think 2 ferraris previously. well, not all can afford that, but the idiots with mad money and blingin ass rims and "mad sound systems) can. i remember a show a while back, someone actually wanted new wheels on an enzo ferrari. its a rare car, you don't do that shit, especially to a limited run car like that. i know some rapper got a lamborghini diablo and paid to get an AUTO TRANSMISSION in a freaking LAMBORGHINI, so his wife can drive it. nice, you wasted a clusterf*** of money on a grocery getter.

That 'rapper' was actually Kobe Bryant, and he got an auto installed in his wife's Murcielago.

As for individualization, I'm all for it, but it's the excess I don't like. I want to say if it's tasteful, then go for it, but taste is subjective. Still, there's an overabundance of people who feel they're improving cars by butchering them.

Drew's sig makes a good point about this topic and, generation.

This happens with everything... like you find a small underground music group, and its cool as hell. Then a couple years later everyone knows, then it's not so cool right? It's completely up to you whether your opinion changes, because the product remains the same. In the end, your only hurting yourself by limiting a piece of life you once enjoyed.

Believe me, none of the cars you mentioned are common, most artists can only rent them out for video purposes. And like you said, they don't appreciate them... but that doesn't mean you can't.

this feels more like a snobby/selfish attitude to me.

I swear Porsche, send that in to a good magazine.

I also think what contributed to this problem was the invention of the robots to assemble vehicles. Before those, cars were literally handcrafted, and they are still today however, not to the full extent that they were years ago. Like the body was molded, then sanded to perfection by hadn, hand spray painted, as well as the seats being hand stitched, and the cars being hand assembled etc. By majority of the factories having these machines, it enables them to produce cars more efficiently and in higher numbers.

This also reminds me of how paint and music artist view their work. They a lot of times get pissed off when somebody edits or changes their final creation. The artist sees it as one and not bits and pieces that can be changed here and there. If one thing is changed then it is no longer what the artist wanted it to be. Its almost like a slap in the face.

Because it is a slap in the face, would you like it if some schmuck came by and changed what you worked hard to make? I'd be pissed.

Porsche SUV.

That about sums it up for me. Makes me want to throw up every time I see one.

I swear Porsche, send that in to a good magazine.



Any suggestions?

dirtydx, it is a snobbish/selfish attitude, you can't effectively discuss cars worth more than the average house without seeming a little pretentious.

thrasher, it hurts to admit, but the Porsche Cayenne for a long time made me disgusted with Porsche. Sure it's been a financial saviour, but in terms of heritage and tradition, there is none. These days it's all about money, money, money. They were one of the last brands to put forth an SUV, they did a decent job, but it totally contradicts their past as an independant sports car maker.

Although it never occured to me, the average artist or musician parallels these thoughts. They make genuine, low volume pieces, and exploitation or alteration is almost the exact same thing I'm complaining about. They almost have it worse, since they literally put everything into their work, and with the advent of file-sharing programs, it's put a lot of strain on already starving artists. With the luxury car industry, there are some rip-offs, but it's a lot harder to download a Bentley.

The commonalty of these cars is a matter of location, which is why I stuck to production numbers rather than locations. It is simple numbers that prove there are many more on the road than even a decade ago, wherever they may be.

Well Porsche, you seem like a very intelligent person, and you undoubtedly are, but these arguments seem as though they harbor some resentment toward pro athletes and, although it was not mentioned, musical artist- mostly rappers. I mean these individuals are usually the target when someone talks about spinners and exotic cars. My fear is that you are expressing the feeling that these individuals- pro athletes and rappers- do not work hard for their money and likewise cannot truly appreciate the reason behind an exclusive brands heritage and true purpose. To me this seems as though you are arguing for a very good point while completely bashing a group of people who you generalize into one group. Not all of them think this way, I know so personally, and some do buy cars for what they did and do, to a certain extent, represent.

But beyond this point, which I'm sure you were not trying to express, I think that this is a great post. I also share some of the same sentiments as you on this subject. But of course if you look at whats shown on T.V. you will see whats sensational, big rims and extravagant sound systems on/in expensive cars and a show of how much money someone can spend to mess up an already perfect car, but what can you expect. Like you said its all about money in some instances and T.V. is one of those instances. There not really going to clue in on those that purchase high end cars strictly for the feel and what the brand stands for becuase that won't sell as well. :smile:

I agree whole heartedly with you Porsche. And it's not the fact that they are being bought in bigger numbers and seen more often. It's the fact that all of these celebrities and athletes buy them because it's "the thing to do". Hardly any of them are actually car enthusiasts in it themselves. They compete with their "friends" to have the bigger better fleet of cars.

Hell, hardly any of them even can pronounce any of their car names correctly and if you asked them how many liters were in the car they drive they wouldn't know that. I bet 1 of 1/10th of them even know that Modena is a city in Italy.

No one appreciates anything they have, they buy buy buy to keep up with their neighborhood Jones'. Hell Bam gets his H2 cut up and laughs about it and then stands there while Billy Idol cuts up his Lambo and laughs about it. Appreciation for anything things days comes a dime a dozen. That's something I'd like to see change. But with MTV paying idiots to do idiotic stunts and idiots that will watch it, that'll never change.

Okay, I'm a car manufacturer and I'm making an awesomely exclusive car. Now, my car is great. Like, the greatest one out there. Ever. (Just trying to stress the awesomeness of my car)

If a lot of people were putting demands in for my car, I would definitely want to meet the demand. Because that means more profit for me. If a rapper felt like using my car in his video, wouldn't I be happy? Isn't that free advertising? Wouldn't that make other people want to buy my car?

It's the same with music and art. Don't you think underground artists like it when they get to be popular? And wouldn't Van Gogh have been a lot happier if he had sold more than 1 painting during his lifetime?

I just think that the car companies are probably happy that their vehicles are selling.

It does aggravate me that a lot of people don't appreciate their possessions, but I don't really want to whine about it, because chances are if I had a billion dollars, I'd be just as much of an asshole.

Question, what's the name of your car Nicole?

these idiots are buyings lambo's and 'rarri's, and I cant even afford a fucking 92 Lincoln, or PI HCI for my car.
Hey, this is stress release, right?

And yeah. I remember when I was a kid, I watched some movie with a Lambo in it. I thought it was the coolest car. Now, a Lambo isnt even in my top 10 fav car list... mtv "cribs" has polluted my mind.

I don't have that kind of money. I drive an F-150. That's about as pimpin as I am right now.

But when I get older and have the money, I will definitely have a nice car. With one of those names. Why? Because it drives nicer, is more luxurious, and makes me feel better at the end of the day.

I could care less about why a car is being used. Why? Because at the end of the day...it's still just a car. A pile of sheetmetal and plastic pieces.

I could care less about why a car is being used. Why? Because at the end of the day...it's still just a car. A pile of sheetmetal and plastic pieces.

more importantly, a shiny pile of metal and plastic.

Bristol :thumbsup:

What you've mentioned is precisely one of the reasons why I drive classics.

However, what you're talking about is also nothing new - look at John Lennon's Rolls-Royce, or Keith Moon hand painting his Bentley lilac and driving it into a duck pond. While the over-commercialization of "bling" and such, compounded with the public's worship of celebrity and lack of any notable originality certainly puts the issue to the forefront, it's not necessarily the cause.

Let me offer this conclusion - it's not a lack of care from the customers (be it rap stars or $9,995 Daewoo buyers), it's a lack of care from the manufacturers. Very few companies now produce a car because they want to, they produce a car to make money. Think the BMW boss cares if his personal ride is the "ultimate driving machine?" Doubt it. Just as long as it meets the image created by the marketing department and makes him money, he's happy. Even the boss of Porsche is probably only concerned with maintaining profit levels. Sure, the engineers and stylists and such may love their work, but ultimately they need to get paid. The automotive market is saturated, it's reached its maturity, and the car has become a commodity. The only way manufacturers can succeed is to: 1. Focus on a niche group (Bristol, Morgan, etc), 2. Be cost (not price) leaders (the Koreans, Chinese VWs, etc), or 3. Differentiate (BMW as "the ultimate driving machine", Hummer as a military wannabe, etc). Only a few can reach niche groups (as niche groups are limited) and only so many can compete on cost (as sweat-shops are utilized), so the rest must differentiate themselves (for example, the once-exclusive brands you've mentioned). It truly is "all about the benjamins" with 95% of all manufacturers.

As I mentioned, that's why I love classics. First, their numbers have dwindled over the years (and likely weren't as high to begin with), so exclusivity is virtually assured, second, most cars were built with passion back then - though technology has, overall, improved cars since, nowadays you just don't see cars this side of a Rolls-Royce with, for example, a real wood drinks tray and cabinet as seen in a simple old Rover. There are numerous other reasons, but I won't bore you with everything ;)

Before I conclude, I must point out that there are always exceptions to the rule. For example, before retiring, Ferdinand Piëch wanted to make his ultimate car - a car he actually cared about (rather than one to make a profit) - and we ended up with the VW Phaeton. This is a car with an on-board dehumidifier so the windows never steam up, a car with an innovative engine which propels the machine to 200mph, a car that pushes boundaries in every direction it sees. The problem is, it doesn't, at all, fit with VW's image. It's a "people's car" for $100,000. When's the last time you saw one? How many rappers have one? It's a complete sales flop, and for that, it represents one of the few truly great modern cars. :thumbsup:

it sounds to me as though you are, porsche, pointing out the automotive equivelent of "selling out". something indie fans have to deal with on almost a day by day basis. let me see if i can be of service to help ease your mind.

people start up a business (or start a band) because they believe it is a way to make money doing something they love. every band wants to make enough to sleep under a roof and eat. every car manufacturer wants the same thing. eventually they are sucessfull enough to carve out a little niche for themselves amongst the rest of the trash, and they can become comfortable. ferrari, bentley, rolls, lamborgini all found a niche amongst the uber wealthy racer or enthusiast. and thus a feeling of exclusivity was born. just like you favorite indie band (modest mouse as an apt example) found a nice little niche amongst music lovers tired of the same shit that was pouring out of their stereo.

but those people who are always looking for exclusivity (and can afford it) are always looking for a way to set themselves apart. the extremely wealthy buy extremely exclusive cars in order to set themselves apart from the poor, record companies sign odd sounding bands in order to set themselves apart from the competition and capitalize.

but as more and more people seek exclusivity in these cars (or bands) the companies/bands realize that they can make alot more money by appealing to a wider base. modest mouse changed their sound dramatically, and "good news for people who like bad news" sold a shit load of copies and made them a household name. the car brands adopted mass production techniques and were able to sell to a wider range of people, and became not an exclusive car, but a status item.

however, there is hope. not every band truly ever sells out. the great ones never forget their roots. niether do great car companies. theres always a nod to their base. there are tracks on the new modest mouse album for those of out there who remember them when they couldnt get any gigs and so we drove 2 days to see them play live in their best friends back yard. and there are cars out there for for the true enthusiast, as a nod to the companies roots. let them mass produce their 1 or 2 flagship models...there will always be the true "car lovers" car being looked over by the rap artists and pro athletes in the back of the showroom.

thrasher, it hurts to admit, but the Porsche Cayenne for a long time made me disgusted with Porsche. Sure it's been a financial saviour, but in terms of heritage and tradition, there is none. These days it's all about money, money, money. They were one of the last brands to put forth an SUV, they did a decent job, but it totally contradicts their past as an independant sports car maker.

On a similar note, Bentley announced that they're going to be introducing an SUV of their own, being claimed "the most expensive SUV ever" by Car and Driver.

Okay, I'm a car manufacturer and I'm making an awesomely exclusive car. Now, my car is great. Like, the greatest one out there. Ever. (Just trying to stress the awesomeness of my car)

If a lot of people were putting demands in for my car, I would definitely want to meet the demand. Because that means more profit for me. If a rapper felt like using my car in his video, wouldn't I be happy? Isn't that free advertising? Wouldn't that make other people want to buy my car?

It's the same with music and art. Don't you think underground artists like it when they get to be popular? And wouldn't Van Gogh have been a lot happier if he had sold more than 1 painting during his lifetime?

I just think that the car companies are probably happy that their vehicles are selling.

It does aggravate me that a lot of people don't appreciate their possessions, but I don't really want to whine about it, because chances are if I had a billion dollars, I'd be just as much of an asshole.


That's what's poisoning the minds of these auto makers, as Porsche is trying to point out and why the heritage is being lost.

My fear is that you are expressing the feeling that these individuals- pro athletes and rappers- do not work hard for their money and likewise cannot truly appreciate the reason behind an exclusive brands heritage and true purpose.
They do work hard, but they also often have over-inflated salaries, which is another topic in itself. The millions, tens of in some cases can get to your head, these people can afford to throw money at whatever they want. I targeted this group ebcause of the influence they have. They make it seem like years of tradition and respect for these cars can be thrown out the window, and twist it into 'pop-culture'. It's not a trend, it's a travesty. Anybody is entitled to do what they want with their money, but when you start 'customizing' these cars in this manner, don't be surprised if it ticks off a few deep-rooted enthusiasts. As it was already mentioned, a good portion couldn't identify even the most basic qualities these cars are known for. If you buy a Rolls Royce, at least attempt to know what a Rolls Royce actually stands for.

Nicole, these companies don't need advertising, how often do you see primetime ads for Lamborghini? Billboards? Most of these companies have waiting lists stretching into years. I once remember reading that the Ferrari Testarossa was the world's most recognized automobile. Not to mention even my great-grandmother knows what a Ferrari is.

Heep, yes it's nothing new, but it's now accepted as mainstream. Nobody was running out back in the 60's and 70's putting mutli-coloured paints jobs on their RR's or Warholing their BMW's.

lazysmurff, it's not quite selling out. It's just selling, manufacturers have a tough time discriminating buyers, as far as I know only Ferrari's been able to pull it off in recent years, and was for one $650,000 model. They are merely growing, and growth is quite natural. The growth rate however, bothers me. Take Aston Martin, they produced 4917 cars from 1958-1973, that's roughly 300 cars per year, in mid 2004, they announced they have planned for 5000 cars per annum. There was consistent growth over the years leading to this, but post 2000, it went through the roof. It just seems that right now for these brands, the clientele is quite diverse, and those who butcher these cars get all the attention, it fools the public in believing that these cars should have these modifications because it's the thing to do.

It just feels like these brands are victims of pop culture, a status symbol saying that 'they've made it' and they want everyone to know. It's almost arrogant in a way, flaunting it in the manner they do.

I appreciate the modest mouse analogy though, it's happening to a lot of bands lately. Maybe it's all just the wheels of change, but somewhere along the line, I began to feel that people have lost thier sense of bewilderment around cars that still command it.

BTW, nice to see the effort people are putting into this thread.

edit: Bentley did produce an SUV back in the early 90's, the Bentley Java. Not likely you'll see one though, the only two they made are locked away in the Sultan of Brunei's warehouses. The news of a new one however, is underwhelming.

"... too many self-indulgent wieners with TOO MUCH BLOODY MONEY!"


That about sums it up.

"... too many self-indulgent wieners with TOO MUCH BLOODY MONEY!"


Nicholas Cage in Gone in 60 Seconds at the Ferrari dealer.

EDIT: I love that scene.

Nicholas Cage in Gone in 60 Seconds at the Ferrari dealer.

but of course :)


and it's so true.