S2000 best car for $$$ ?

A little background...
I am a car enthusiast that has been researching the VERY BEST OVERALL sports car for under or around $20k. I have been researching for literally 2yrs. Now when I say "overall" I mean it: Interior/exterior design and quality, engine design/power, suspension, reliability, frame, transmission, weight, rarity...etc...

After searching and reading countless websites, books, magazines, and car-specific forums I have come to one conclusion: A used S2000.
I've taken in and put thought into all the complaints: lack of torque, "chick" car (hardly), weak drivetrain, not mod-friendly, 'vert (bad thing?).
Yet, I still come back to this japanese roadster. It's not everyone's cup of tea, I know, but seriously... consider ALL the above factors and tell me a better car for the money. I CHALLENGE YOU.

BTW, this is Kurtdg19's roommate (didn't bother creating account). As far as the sig is concerned, that's about his CBR, not an S2000 as it may suggest.

-Stu

I'd rather have a Miata anyday. The S2000 is very involving to drive, but it's also fairly pricy, and the engine is either love-it-or-hate-it. I like to have a decent amount of power below 4000 rpm, so I hate it. And I know it's a Honda, so it'll run flawlessly if taken care of, but the Miata is cheaper and easier to take care of. Aside from the fact that they're both Japanese two-seat roadsters, they don't have a whole lot in common. In short, the S2000 is an advanced roadster with racing-inspired design and execution, whereas the Miata is a back to basics, easy yet fun to drive kind of car. If you really enjoy the S2000's feel that much, it may be worth the extra money to you, but it isn't to me.

i'd say go look test drive an S2000, and a Miata MX-5 and then compare the two, but i agree the miata would be a better choice for me

Well your limit of $20,000 is going to be a problem here. For example I bought my 300ZX Twin Turbo for just over $10,000. With $10,000 to play with you could upgrade from front to rear and have a car that would beat just about anything else on the road. Or given a Miata and the remainder of the $20,000 you could get the car ready to race. Or you could spend the entire sum on a used S2000. "Better" is in the eye of the beholder. And in the eye of this particular beholder, the S2000 is not worth the money.

For under $20,000, I'd say E36 M3 any day.

I personally think that the M3 has everything you could want in a road car.

-luxury interior, more room
-240hp / almost 240 lb-ft
-great styling
-its a hardtop...
-legendary handling
-impeccable transmission

The M3 combines luxury and sport like few other cars can imagine, especially in this price range. The S2000 just isn't very comfortable for a daily driver.

///M Power

I'd have a used Porsche Boxster if you can find one for your price (Not sure if you could though, Boxster residuals are very solid).

Reliable, quick, handles brilliantly, nice looking, solidly built, comfortable, very drivable and as practical as roadsters come. Expensive upkeep if you don't know who to talk to, though.

I'd have to go with an E36 M3 as well.....

A Boxster is a good choice, but I'd have to say a C5 Corvette. You can get a 97 or 98 coupe for right about 20k, it looks great, handles great, and has acceleration that makes the S2000 seem like a toy.

yeah i forgot about the C5 vette, that would be the best bang for about 20k stock

i'd rather have a 350z or an M3 for the same money. they make good power all around, not just past 6800 rpm. quality wise i'm sure it's great, it's a honda, same with the interior and resale value. honda's are good car's, i'm just not big on the S2k.

$20,000?
that's what, around £12000-15000 maybe?

that's S1 lotus elise money....
or an S1-S4 elan and defintely a lotus europa (not in pistachio please) in top condition.

anyway.
i really don't recommend the S2000 for being used as an every day car. it is a car that has obviously been designed around the engine and (un)fortunetly, the engine is built to rev. yes you can drive it around nice and calmly and in that case it is a very useable car but there is always something that feels odd about changing gear at what feels like too low in the range.
on the other hand you can change mindset and thrash the car though the gears to get the best out of it but then by the time you're halfway to the red-line in third, you're breaking most speed limits around the world.
the car feels better when it's being pushed but you don't want to drive like that every day. then there's the point that when you do push it, there is a very unsettling and very fine line between grip and slip at the rear and thare is very little sign of the tail about to snap and when it does snap, the steering set-up doesn't really help.
(should point out this is based on me driving an early car, pre-suspension changes).

from the others mentioned here, i'd find it hard to say no to a boxster (if i didn't have a lotus fetish)

C5 would definately be my choice. I am not a big fan of a narrow power band.

S2000 the best car or 20 grand? I'd rather have a new SRT-4, Cobalt SS, or '05 V6 Mustang than a S2000.

I'll agree though with everybody here that a used C5 would be your best bet.

Great replies...
Some of the cars mentioned were definitely on my watch. Some thoughts though...

E36 M3: Great car... beautiful car, but outdated... period.
350z: outta my price range, but great car and the VQ is commendable.
Miata: AWESOME suggestion and glad people mentioned it, but the exterior design leaves something to be desired? Like the BMW, it's just plain outdated. (new model might be something to look at in future)
Elise: just plain can't find them, and new american model is around $40k.
C5 vette: Let me tell ya, I LOVE the vette. Performance per dollar can't be beat, but the interior and transmission would make me throw up. I don't like vomit on leather.
Boxster: About the closest car mentioned that has the overall package. A porsche with some miles on the odo scares me. Repairs, I'm guessing, would be through the roof. Reliability is questionable. Transmission wouldnt be AS good, and from what I hear the interior wouldn't be either.
SRT-4: Handling, nah. FWD, nah. Interior, nah. 4-door, nah.
Cobalt SS: (See SRT-4)
New Mustang: little pricey, gorgeous retro styling IMO, but interior still doesn't do it for me. Main thing is this: Everyone and their brother will have one. Rarity is a factor. I wonder how much a lease on a GT would be though....

Prove me wrong people.

Prove me wrong people.

"Best Overall" is an opinion. You can't prove an opinion. You seem to like the S2000 so it may be the car for you. I dislike various things about it and bought something else. If you were trying to compare it in a particular endevor (1/4 mile, top speed, cornering etc etc) then you could prove it better or worse than a given car. Try narrowing your question.

definitely the vette...even if you don't like the tranny, you'll get used to it after a while...and just like these guys are saying...the vette would make the others look like a toy, in a straight line and on the track...if you want an import i would go with a newer MR2 turbo or maybe 240sx...both cars have great balance...but still don't hold a candle to the vette but you would have lots of money left over to at least get close to the vette...

I'm obsessed with the S2000. Most fun car I've ever driven. Granted, I've never driven an Elise, a Vette, or a Miata, but screaming along at 9k while climbing through one of the most amazing gearboxes on earth is too much fun. Plus, the fit and finish is incredible (particularly the interior). Go for the F20C if you get one.

Word of warning: as much as I love the car, it's not great as an only car or a daily driver. Very little storage space and Civic-esque power below 6000 rpm's can wear on even a seasoned enthusiast. As a weekend hot-lapper, however, I'd choose nothing else.

$20,000/£15,000 is also tvr griffith territory.

drunken monkey: I'm not sure if you realize this, but the oldest Lotus that we have in the U.S. is the 2004 Elise, and we never got any TVRs.

Great replies...
Some of the cars mentioned were definitely on my watch. Some thoughts though...

E36 M3: Great car... beautiful car, but outdated... period.
350z: outta my price range, but great car and the VQ is commendable.
Miata: AWESOME suggestion and glad people mentioned it, but the exterior design leaves something to be desired? Like the BMW, it's just plain outdated. (new model might be something to look at in future)
Elise: just plain can't find them, and new american model is around $40k.
C5 vette: Let me tell ya, I LOVE the vette. Performance per dollar can't be beat, but the interior and transmission would make me throw up. I don't like vomit on leather.
Boxster: About the closest car mentioned that has the overall package. A porsche with some miles on the odo scares me. Repairs, I'm guessing, would be through the roof. Reliability is questionable. Transmission wouldnt be AS good, and from what I hear the interior wouldn't be either.
SRT-4: Handling, nah. FWD, nah. Interior, nah. 4-door, nah.
Cobalt SS: (See SRT-4)
New Mustang: little pricey, gorgeous retro styling IMO, but interior still doesn't do it for me. Main thing is this: Everyone and their brother will have one. Rarity is a factor. I wonder how much a lease on a GT would be though....

Prove me wrong people.
Boxster reliability is just as good as anything Japanese, most problems are usually very niggly and don't cost a lot to fix. If something mechanical does go kaput though, however rare that may be, then you will be faced with a horrendous repair bill.

Of course I don't buy cars for affordability of parts, so I suppose something like a Corvette would make more sense.

For me since i like small cars i would probably choose a miata. i also like the corvette and , not suprisingly i am i fan of the S2000. the other cars mentioned dont really interest me. i almost bought a miata but my current car was a better buy. i would love to get a miata and spend about 10k on it. that would be a nice car.

on a side note, i saw a guy driving a miata, new style. he took this 90* turn at like 45-50. his car must have had a nice suspension setup. i tried that and all i had was understeer and slide lol. i really need new shocks.

There are countless threads about a particular aspect of a car (1/4 mile, top speed, handling). I am asking for input on all angles of a car in the most critical sense. Narrowing the question would nullify the thread completely. I imagine that people buy a car for one, or maybe a few, particular reasons. For example, I wouldn't imagine weight or rarity are factors for your usual mustang buyer. I want the BEST OVERALL car for the money I'm spending.

Like I said, the vette is GREAT. Talk about raising the bar on performance, it's unbelievable. I could never row through the gears (even with 350hp) and enjoy myself fully. The throws would be too long and imprecise, and looking at the GM parts bin interior would be all but too painful. Now, do I really think the quality is that horrible? No, but comparing it to cars that, for the same price, have much better fit and finish ...I could not justify. Keep it coming.

Well then, I'll take a Twin Turbo Z over a S2000 any day. Nice real leather interior, plenty rare enough, doesn't have the somewhat ricey aura a S2000 does (though that maybe just me). Designed specifically with driver in mind the car is an utter joy to drive. I can toss it around a corner harder than my 240, given a stock 300hp its ahead of where most cars end up after upgrading and the extremely mod friendly VG motor is $1500 worth of intake, cat-back and ECU from 400hp. 400rwhp is achievable with bolt on upgrades. The stock bottom end has proven itself up past any kind of power that you could ever need for a street car and going beyond that doesn't require too much extra to achieve. Given so many hard driven Zs still running hard even with six figure mileage and Nissan's build quality it performs admirably enough for a sports car as far as reliablity is concerned. I love that fact that it doesn't suffer from a lack of low end power like so many small engined or turbocharged cars do. I don't have to wait for the engine to get up to a certain rpm range and I don't have to rely on the turbos to make all the power.

Combine how great a car it is with the money you would save over buying a S2000 and that makes a it a clear cut winner for better overall in my mind.

I view the 300ZX as the premier sports car of the 90's. Sure, the Supra accelerates harder, the RX-7 handles better, the 3000GT has all-wheel-drive, and the Corvette smokes all four of them, but there's just something about the 300ZX that puts it above the rest. Maybe it's the incredible styling, or the truly high-class interior, or the rock-solid build quality...but I think it's the fact that it combines all of those things so masterfully, so naturally, that it is the best.

I think Edmunds.com put it the best, in their overview in the 1996 300ZX: "It's not the fastest car in its class anymore, nor the most technologically advanced, nor the most refined, but like George Foreman, the 300ZX is still champ. It does everything a sports car should do, does it well, and it looks even better than it did when it was introduced. The 300ZX is a no-apologies kind of car." There's really no simpler way to put it than that. It may not always be possible to justify the car on paper, but if you're looking for a truly complete package, it's hard to go wrong with the 300ZX. It's certainly worth a look.

EDIT: God damnit, why am I sticking up for the 300ZX TT? It weighs 3400 frickin' pounds!

drunken monkey: I'm not sure if you realize this, but the oldest Lotus that we have in the U.S. is the 2004 Elise, and we never got any TVRs.


i know.... just rubbing it in a little......
:biggrin:

Apparently someone hasn't been reading through the thread.

BEST OVERALL SPORTS CAR FOR AROUND OR UNDER $20k. Not best sports car for $10k that you could upgrade. This is meant to compare cars that can be had for a price in stock trim. According to your logic, I could just save money by buying a civic and upgrading all components of the engine and suspension, and still save $5k. What does heavily modding a car do to reliability? Mileage?

The 300zx, while obtaining a timeless exterior design, is unfortunately moot in this thread. 300hp is great and all, but when it's pulling 3300-3400lbs along it doesn't seem so impressive. The interior was great for 1989, I'm sure, but it's 2005. Toyota corolla interior is better. Really. As far as that generation of cars is concerned I always thought the RX-7 was the clear-cut winner. It decent power, light weight, and an exterior/interior design that was ahead of its time. Unfortunately you were lucky to get 100,000 miles out of that wankel(sp?) rotary before you needed a rebuild.

With that said the 300zx is a great car, it really is, but it doesn't belong on this thread.

The 300zx, while obtaining a timeless exterior design, is unfortunately moot in this thread. 300hp is great and all, but when it's pulling 3300-3400lbs along it doesn't seem so impressive. The interior was great for 1989, I'm sure, but it's 2005. Toyota corolla interior is better. Really. As far as that generation of cars is concerned I always thought the RX-7 was the clear-cut winner. It decent power, light weight, and an exterior/interior design that was ahead of its time. Unfortunately you were lucky to get 100,000 miles out of that wankel(sp?) rotary before you needed a rebuild.

It'll smoke an S2000 without even trying. Weight doesn't matter so much at higher speeds, where it mostly comes down to power, aerodynamics, and gearing. And I guess you haven't seen a nice 300ZX interior, because they are much better than any Toyota Corolla.

I don't get this. If you want an S2000 and don't want to hear about anything else that is better in most categories, than get the S2000. Performance wise, I think most of the cars people have mentioned would put a thorough beating on an S2000. Maybe you see something special about the interior that I don't that makes you forget the other shortcomings, but I don't. Get what will make you happy but with an S2000 you aren't any more exclusive than a vette, and less powerful than everything else mentioned. Also, I couldn't immagine rowing through all the gears on any of these cars honestly, because by the end of 3rd gear you would be well over 100 MPH in most of these cars, let alone being in 6th.

well, the s2000 is a really well rounded car except for the engine. don't wanna rev the shit outta it all day. i read in a magazine article that they did a 0-60 only revving to 5000 or 6000 each gear and it took them 11 seconds.

buy a used 3KGT, supra, 300zx, or rx7. they might be a little older, but they are fast out of the box, and they are relatively painless to mod. $10,000 for one of the above mentioned cars, and $10,000 in mods sounds about as good as it can get.

It sounds like you're pretty set on the S2000 and you just want to be convinced otherwise. Is the sig any indication? Just get the damn thing already!

buy a used 3KGT, supra, 300zx, or rx7. they might be a little older, but they are fast out of the box, and they are relatively painless to mod. $10,000 for one of the above mentioned cars, and $10,000 in mods sounds about as good as it can get.

I am with you except for the price. There are no supra TTs for 10, an RX7TT would be difficult but maybe a poorly taken care of one could be found for 10. You could likely find a 300ZXTT for that price if you looked hard enough. As much as I love the rx7, its not really going to be a painless car.

"Weight doesn't matter so much at higher speeds, where it mostly comes down to power, aerodynamics, and gearing."

Funny logic: While power, aerodynamics, and gearing help... weight doesn't just magically "go away" with speed. No matter the speed, it's still 300hp pulling 3400lbs.

"And I guess you haven't seen a nice 300ZX interior, because they are much better than any Toyota Corolla."

Sit in a 1996 300zx. Sit in a 2005/6 Corolla. Bring a notebook.

"It sounds like you're pretty set on the S2000 and you just want to be convinced otherwise. Is the sig any indication? Just get the damn thing already!"

I haven't really said much about the S2000 at all.
Already explained that the sig is about my roommates CBR, not an S2K. Good guess though. :)

HORSEPOWER does NOT make a car an OVERALL package. So posts stating "(Car X) will beat an S2000 all day long" makes no sense. Now, I know the engine and it's high-revving nature is VERY subjective...as I wouldn't expect most to go towards it. (Very Ferrari-esque though, yes?)

It just seems like people aren't grasping the question I'm asking. Think of this: Why is the Miata considered one of the best sports cars ever? Because it has mind-boggling horsepower? No, but rather the OVERALL PACKAGE. Think, then post.

Think, then post.

You first.

We've presented a long list of cars that we all think are better overall packages than the S2000 based on what we are looking for in a car. Any given car will have advantages and disadvantages when compared with another car of similar intent. Which of these advantages you value and which of these disadvantages you can live with is subjective to the driver. I think my Z is the perfect mix of power, style, handling, reliablity and exotic appeal. The weight and the age that would seem to be disadvantages are things I can live with. In my mind it's virtues make it far superior to a S2000.

As for your Miata example, even though I find it's balance, superb handling and small size enjoyable, it lacks the exoticness, low end grunt and sheer power of my Z, all things I value highly. To me a Miata is not a better overall package because it does not provide the things I enjoy the most.

If after "two years of researching" you are dead set on the Honda being best overall in regards to what YOU are looking for in a car then get one. Or if after researching for two years you are still undecided...well then I doubt there is anything we can do for you here.

It just seems like people aren't grasping the question I'm asking. Think of this: Why is the Miata considered one of the best sports cars ever? Because it has mind-boggling horsepower? No, but rather the OVERALL PACKAGE. Think, then post.

You didn't even read my whole post, did you? My whole point is that the 300ZX is NOT the best car on paper, and I doubt it ever will be, but it is the best OVERALL PACKAGE that you can get for under twenty grand. And I'm not saying that weight magically disappears at higher speeds, but it definitely has much less of an effect. Anyone who's taken first-year physics would know that. The coefficient of friction for an object in motion is much less than it is for an object at rest, and it just gets lower the faster you go. Power-to-weight ratios are important in determining the winner of a standing-start quarter-mile drag race, but when you're racing on the highway, weight isn't nearly as much of a factor. This is why the S2000, despite having a similar power-to-weight ratio as the 300ZX TT, won't be able to touch it on the highway.

Now, I know the engine and it's high-revving nature is VERY subjective...as I wouldn't expect most to go towards it. (Very Ferrari-esque though, yes?)


i dont see how you could possibly say that the s2000 motor is similar to a ferrari. the difference is that the ferrari motors actually make good power down low as well as rev to higher rpms.

im not gonna get into anything else because everything has already been summed up by others.

but i will agree with all of them and go on to see, if thats what you want get it. we cant change someone's stubborn mind if their decision has already been made. if you were looking for information on which was all-around performer you wouldnt argue with people everytime they say something is better in a certain category.

as for the corolla having a better interior than a 300zx. i dont think so...have you ever sat in a leather eqipped 300zx??? i personally like the sturdy parts and interior pieces compared to most new car's cheap plastics. and im sure the corolla's interior is fairly cheaply builts beings the car sells brand new for cheaper than the 300zx is still selling for in 2005. :eek7:

and too add to kman's post...there are very FEW non-exotic sports cars that have a better drag coeficient than the 300zx. including the brand new s2000 or 350z for that matter.

If after "two years of researching" you are dead set on the Honda being best overall in regards to what YOU are looking for in a car then get one. Or if after researching for two years you are still undecided...well then I doubt there is anything we can do for you here.

Amen to that.

I don't think the S2000 is a bad package overall. I also don't think the miata is necessarily a better package overall, but the price makes it pretty competitive. Like someone already said, "overall is very subjective" maybe some factors weigh more heavily on your opinion. To me the S2000 is good but will never be the best in any category. To me power is important, call me american (which I am) but I need that extra power to pass someone without thinking twice. I could never be satisfied with the S2000. I agree that its pretty nice inside (not really much better in my opinion than even a vette, nothing outstanding is my point), but its very small everywhere. No true sports car is really roomy but the S2000 is really lacking of room. This is really opinion based, so this is only my opinion disagreeing.

To me the S2000 is good but will never be the best in any category.

this is just me being picky but don't you think the S2000 might rank up there as having one of, if not the best, stock 4 cylinder engine?

I don't think it's that great at all. It's pretty impressive that they got 120 horsepower per liter out of a naturally-aspirated engine, but the drawback, a complete and utter lack of low-end power, makes it not worth it at all. It's one of the best-engineered stock four-cylinder engines ever made, but that doesn't make it an enjoyable engine to have in your car.

I don't think it's that great at all. It's pretty impressive that they got 120 horsepower per liter out of a naturally-aspirated engine, but the drawback, a complete and utter lack of low-end power, makes it not worth it at all. It's one of the best-engineered stock four-cylinder engines ever made, but that doesn't make it an enjoyable engine to have in your car.

You took the words right out of my mouth. Horsepower per liter really means nothing.

I don't think it's that great at all. It's pretty impressive that they got 120 horsepower per liter out of a naturally-aspirated engine, but the drawback, a complete and utter lack of low-end power, makes it not worth it at all. It's one of the best-engineered stock four-cylinder engines ever made, but that doesn't make it an enjoyable engine to have in your car.

Def excellent statement I agree completely

well.... i didn't say anything about it being enjoyable to drive in town conditions.....

i should say though, standing on the gas and running it through the gears is a highly addictive thing.
everyone should try it at least once in their lives.

Everybody is going to suggest their car plus upgrades or a car of the same brand that they own. It always happens, especially in this forums.

So I say...mmm...

Get the s2000. :)

hmm....
$20,000?
best car to get?
ferrari 400i