B18c5 Vs K20

Acura integra B18c5 vs RSX Type S !

Which One You Want in Your Civic and Which One You Think Worth $$$ ?

Both too expensive. You could buy a b16a and build it up for the same price as either of those; and have more power.

both would be worth the money, if you have that much money to spend, the rsx-s swap would be especially expensive. both could be built tons for N/A or FI... depending on what you want. i dont know what kind of civic you have; but to give you an idea, if u put the type r into an EG, it'll run mid to high 13's; the rsx-s in an EG will run mid-high 12's; all depending on the driver of course. obviously an EK hatch, or coupes are going to be slower b/c they are heavier. but both those (depending on your model of civ.) could beat NA built b16's and turbo'd ninja's w/a good driver. i dont kno if u plan on doing the swap yourself or not; but to have a shop do the rsx-s swap it will probably run 7-9k (for everything, labor, parts, full swap...blah blah blah) depending on what civ. u have; the type r swap some where around 4-6k(everything again). these are rough estimates. the shop i talked to about a k-series said he'd do it for 7k and wouldnt go over, but i know him pretty well, so idk. hope that helps.

I didn't know you could hit 12s with a rsx-s motor in a civic. The K series is that good? I guess theres a reason for that price for it.

yea, u can :D !! lol, but only w/the cx and vx - or lightened up EG hatch's. i'm not sure about other model civics....???? that would sure be kool hey.

This thread makes my head hurt.

K20A is more expensive because A) primarily because it is a newer motor B) a more technologically advanced motor. Motor retailers don't give a shit what it does in the quarter mile, and don't base prices off it. Swapping a K series in can run upwards of $6000+ after mounts, custom header, and wiring harness. Both motors will run very comparible 1/4 mile times
If that's all you're interested in, go with an H22A for half the price, or a swap in a B16A, boost it.

K20A is more expensive because A) primarily because it is a newer motor B) a more technologically advanced motor. Motor retailers don't give a shit what it does in the quarter mile, and don't base prices off it. Swapping a K series in can run upwards of $6000+ after mounts, custom header, and wiring harness. Both motors will run very comparible 1/4 mile times
If that's all you're interested in, go with an H22A for half the price, or a swap in a B16A, boost it.

very true on why its expensive, although, an h22 will run about 4-6k b/c of all the custom work involved. the only problem in h22 and b16 swap is... when you want a new motor, there is a very low re-sale for both of those ^. no one wants an h22, and everyone has a b16.... the itr and k will have a higher re-sale value. however, it'd be much cheaper to boost a b16... and if you have the money, can easily run 10's and be streetable.

very true on why its expensive, although, an h22 will run about 4-6k b/c of all the custom work involved. the only problem in h22 and b16 swap is... when you want a new motor, there is a very low re-sale for both of those ^. no one wants an h22, and everyone has a b16.... the itr and k will have a higher re-sale value. however, it'd be much cheaper to boost a b16... and if you have the money, can easily run 10's and be streetable.
I want you to show me two things. How to hit 10's easy in a B16A, and a streetable 10 second B16A powered Civic.

For an H swap you need mounts ( can be bought for under $300), other than that you can make the harness/axle/shifter mods, so where are the hidden cost that equal 4-6G's?

For an H swap you need mounts ( can be bought for under $300), other than that you can make the harness/axle/shifter mods, so where are the hidden cost that equal 4-6G's?
I see what you're saying, but the things do add up. With the mount kits that are under $300 (like e-bay mounts), I've never read a good review of them. But just because I've only read bad reviews doesn't make them all bad, but I'd never go the cheap way on something that's holding the engine into engine bay. Wiring and shifter can be used from either the stock or what comes in the kit, but you have to get axles from some place. Civic and prelude ones won't work, so that's a little $ (assuming you get $ back from the lude or civic axle cores when buying new ones). Then maintenance stuff like clutch/flywheel, belts, hoses, oil/filter, plugs, etc (obviously all stuff you'd need for any swap). But then you need shocks and springs or coilovers and a fuel pump for lower end cars (5th gen CX or VX's). So all of that might be say roughly $3,400 (including shipping charges for the engine, since most people aren't lucky enough to have an engine suplier right near them). Not quite $4g's but fairly close. Then if you decide to upgrade parts (stage # clutch and lightened flywheel, exhaust manifold, exhaust [stock Civic exhaust sucks], thinner fan). But all those aren't needed, just added stuff. But you've got to think about the people who won't do the swap themselves. I've heard of shops charging over a grand to do the swap. So someone who is going to have a shop do the swap for them and/or add upgraded parts; the cost could definently fall into the $4-6G range easily.

I see what you're saying, but the things do add up. With the mount kits that are under $300 (like e-bay mounts), I've never read a good review of them. But just because I've only read bad reviews doesn't make them all bad, but I'd never go the cheap way on something that's holding the engine into engine bay. Wiring and shifter can be used from either the stock or what comes in the kit, but you have to get axles from some place. Civic and prelude ones won't work, so that's a little $ (assuming you get $ back from the lude or civic axle cores when buying new ones). Then maintenance stuff like clutch/flywheel, belts, hoses, oil/filter, plugs, etc (obviously all stuff you'd need for any swap). But then you need shocks and springs or coilovers and a fuel pump for lower end cars (5th gen CX or VX's). So all of that might be say roughly $3,400 (including shipping charges for the engine, since most people aren't lucky enough to have an engine suplier right near them). Not quite $4g's but fairly close. Then if you decide to upgrade parts (stage # clutch and lightened flywheel, exhaust manifold, exhaust [stock Civic exhaust sucks], thinner fan). But all those aren't needed, just added stuff. But you've got to think about the people who won't do the swap themselves. I've heard of shops charging over a grand to do the swap. So someone who is going to have a shop do the swap for them and/or add upgraded parts; the cost could definently fall into the $4-6G range easily.


thanks for saying it, i didn't really want to type all that :D
and yea, with a boosted b16a, AND enough money, you can have a car that runs 10's and is streetable.... there has been a couple people around where i live that have done it. mighty fine motor building i'd say!

thanks for saying it, i didn't really want to type all that :D
and yea, with a boosted b16a, AND enough money, you can have a car that runs 10's and is streetable.... there has been a couple people around where i live that have done it. mighty fine motor building i'd say!
Really, show me some timeslips and then prove they are daily driven. Sorry dude, but this ain't the movies. Race gas and slicks = not daily.

For axles on an H22/Civic you use the inner joint from the H and the outter from teh Civic, easy, maintainance and parts are a cost on any motor, H doesn't make a difference nor does it if someone wants to get raped by a shop to do it :) FOr the mounts you can go the cheap Egay route, or you could find some online from someone getting rid of a project, or not starting one they planned, you gotta look, but it's out there.

This thread makes my head hurt.

K20A is more expensive because A) primarily because it is a newer motor B) a more technologically advanced motor. Motor retailers don't give a shit what it does in the quarter mile, and don't base prices off it. Swapping a K series in can run upwards of $6000+ after mounts, custom header, and wiring harness. Both motors will run very comparible 1/4 mile times
If that's all you're interested in, go with an H22A for half the price, or a swap in a B16A, boost it.

lol i agree that threads like this are annoying as hell..but every1 needs answers..

i disagree with u on the part about getting the h22 for half the cost..
u can get a h22 swap for 2 g's but after alls said and done with the parts and all u will be spending close to if not over 4 g's...
i know people that have done it and the costs will amount to that much...

i would say for that price u can get a gsr dropped in..for about a few hundred more u can drop the c5..
but the k20 is way more than all of these..for the reasons that u mentioned...

for the threadstarter..if money is not an object drop the k20 because that will be the future of swaps...
but other wise i would drop the c5..because after all that is a hand made motor from honda and i personally think its hella sexy..:D
but if u have plans of eventually going turbo then forget the c5 and get the c1..

i disagree with u on the part about getting the h22 for half the cost..
u can get a h22 swap for 2 g's but after alls said and done with the parts and all u will be spending close to if not over 4 g's...
i know people that have done it and the costs will amount to that much...
I know a few people that have as well, now if someone could please show me this mysterious $2000 extra dollars I'd be appreciative.

Complete H22A swap $2200
Brand new mounts from HAsport $600
Spal slimfan brand new $149 (or just trim the shroud on OEM one)
Brand new custom hybrid axles $349 w/halfshaft (or you can make your own by using the Prelude axle with the Civic outer joint)

This is buying everything brand new, and stuff you just don't need, for $3298, of course if you're buying axles and only need the motor,, tranny, ECU, and shift cbales, the price is about 200 less. And if you decide to buy it from HMO, you can get the HAsport mounts with it for only $450, so subract another $150 to $3148, which is pratically the same cost of a GSR swap and 30 more Hp and 35lbs-ft more torque.

IMO, it's almost always better to go B series, especially if it is a first time swap, as far as ease goes. Every swap, including a same motor replacement is going to have extra cost, shipping, shop time (or someone doing it for you), oil, coolant, tools, time, oh shit something broke, oh noes mah clutch is shit gotta replace it, whatever.

if you scoll up ^^^CIVICSPOON already showed you the where "the hidden costs" are.
and no, i dont have timeslips, the car's weren't mine, and no they did not run on race gas, and no, they didn't don slicks everyday.... i never said they ran tens on the street, i said they ran tens and were streetable- there is a complete difference. you wouldn't run that high of boost for daily driving. and no, just in case you were going to ask, i'm not sure how the motors were built, or what turbo & setup were used; i'm not a "turbo expert" but i know it can be done b/c i've seen it done.
and, sorry if i'm being rude, would you drop the nonsense about the h22 being cheap; its not cheap. besides the point- the kid never asked about an h22- he asked about a k20 vs an itr motor.

everythin that u get on a swap if now guranteed or warrantied..
things like alt dist starter can go bad sitting around..when ur doing a swap the costs are never str8 forward...u'll end up spending more..
also ur assuming that ur doing the swap urself..every1 is not so mechanically inclined to do an engine swap so they might have some shop put it in..
believe me the costs add up..
putting a h22 in 6th gen ur looking at 4000..give or take..

With a fucking D series cost can go well beyond the $500 it cost to get the motor, so guess what, add all those "hidden extra" cost to a fucking ITR motor or a K20A and guess what, now those cost $7000 to $10,000. How is a H22 going to have any extra hidden cost that any other motor isn't? IT'S NOT :) Swapping in a B series can be a 3500 affair also. And I mention a H22 because it is an option. And option that happens to put down the same if not more power for less fucking money. An option that someone that wants 200hp should consider.

And 95whitehb, could you get me two bottles of NOS, make it the big ones would ya. If it isn't capable of a 10 second time slip and at the same time going to get groceries at the store, it isn't a daily drivable 10 second car.

I might have been a little confusing in what I ment to say. I was just saying that someone who is getting the swap done could infact pay $4-6G's easily. However, if you shop around for prices on parts and do the swap yourself; you could do it for a bit cheaper (under $3,500 with everything). I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here. And also even though the Hasport mounts are $450 from HMO when you buy the swap from them, you can buy HCP mounts for $350 and save $100 more :D. And I failed when I mentioned some other stuff (maintenance stuff). I ment to clearify that you definently need all that stuff anyways, for any swap. But it's also why even doing a ITR swap will be more expensive than the price of the "complete swap"; the price still adds up. Just wanted to make it more clear that I agree with both sides of the discussion, just depends on the scenario.

And that's my point, every swap has "hidden cost" that boost it above advertised price, anyone that has actually done a swap will tell you that.

But the H22a still has more not-so-hidden costs over the B-series swaps. Mounts and suspension (a must for the swap, or you'll just blow your $ on tires every few months).
I agree with the H22a over K-series and ITR, and B-series over H22a for a first time swapper (if someone was doing the swap themselves).

And 95whitehb, could you get me two bottles of NOS, make it the big ones would ya. If it isn't capable of a 10 second time slip and at the same time going to get groceries at the store, it isn't a daily drivable 10 second car.
yes, extra costs and too be accounted for, for any swap. however, neither a k or a b requires as much change as an h... ,or f, for that matter. why? because the integra, rsx, and civic front assembly/ engine bays are very similar to nearly identical; so plopping in a d,b, or k-series will require less change (less money-except k, b/c newness of motor) then dropping in a h or f-series, which are made for accords.
i personally did and jdm itr swap, and it cost a little less than 4,000.oo. with new hoses, fuel pump, etc.... and i've known people who put h22's into the same car, it cost 4500.00 or more. even dropping it in themselves. which, kool i thought about an h22... but my plus w/the itr, i can sell the motor/tranny for 4000.00-4500.00 today if i wanted. you can't do that w/an h22.
and yes, you can say you have a 10 sec. car that is streetable, even if you turn the boost down to drive around daily. this is very different from saying you have a 10sec. street car; that would be saying you can run 10's every day, on the street, plus drive it to get groceries. but seeing as i didn't say that... i said it is streetable...

Thanks for proving you're a moron...

neither a k or a b requires as much change as an h... ,or f, for that matter. why? because the integra, rsx, and civic front assembly/ engine bays are very similar to nearly identical; so plopping in a d,b, or k-series will require less change (less money-except k, b/c newness of motor) then dropping in a h or f-series,

A FUCKING K SERIES FACES THE OTHER WAY, REQUIRES CUSTOM MOUNTS, CUSTOM HEADER, CUSTOM WIRING HARNESS, AXLES, SHIFTLINKAGE!!!!

Now that we have established that you have no fucking clue, could you get on with not posting any more bullshit about 10 second daily driver B16As?

An no, you said there were a few guys in your town that had built 10 daily driven B16As, "not streetable 10 second cars", of course there are plently of streetable 10 second cars, just not B16A powered Civics. And yes, for it to be a 10 second daily, it has to be a 10 second daily, otherwise any car is a fucking 10 second daily. Where's my bottles?

Here's a fully built GSR boosted to 28psi
Horsepower: 579whp/422lbs of torque @ 28psi
Best E/T in the 1/4 mile: 11.3@135mph 24.5x8x13 slicks
11.6@131mph BFG drag radials

http://www.importreview.com/raceregistry.html

Here's a few builds and time...not a lot of 10 second B16As there, not a lot of 10 second B's at all., Oh here's a video of a 10 second (barely) B16A (maybe) 99-00 Si, think that is streetable?

http://www.centralfloridaturbo.com/videos/[email protected]

hahah I'm so glad Jcrx is back the Hammer that is Common Sence.

I'd like to know how you got a JDM itr swap done for 4K

The nail that sticks up, gets hammered down :)

hahah I'm so glad Jcrx is back the Hammer that is Common Sence.

I'd like to know how you got a JDM itr swap done for 4K

^ i did it myself, and got the swap from a friend.

A FUCKING K SERIES FACES THE OTHER WAY, REQUIRES CUSTOM MOUNTS, CUSTOM HEADER, CUSTOM WIRING HARNESS, AXLES, SHIFTLINKAGE!!!!

^ i didnt say it didn't. all i said was that the engine bay is similar to civics and integras.

oh yea, you don't need custom mounts - they sell mounts for k-series into civic's (for 400.00 the same as the h22 into civic mounts). so besides the header, shift linkage, and wiring harness. the custom work is just about the same, give or take, as you'd need for an h or f-series. plus you get a better motor, if u have the money for it. and if i tons of money laying around, i'd gladly send you your bottles of nos, except i'm not a fan of laughing gas.

I believe he ment custom mounts as in not just stock ones (from any vehicle); not that you have to fabricate them. And you're digging yourself deeper with your contradictions:
however, neither a k or a b requires as much change as an h... ,or f, for that matter.
so besides the... the custom work is just about the same, give or take, as you'd need for an h or f-series.
So the k-series doesn't need as much change as an H or F-series, but it needs just as much as the H or F-series? The K-series engines need more parts and work done to get them into a Civic than an H or F-series, hands down. And I haven't seen any K-series mounts for under $520, doesn't mean they don't exist but I have yet to see them. And if they are generic e-bay mounts, then they don't even count (anyone who uses e-bay generic mounts should just sell their engine and stick with a stock one).

u r right, sorry, i ment d,b will need less change than a k,h, or f.... but the h,k,and f need custom work... however the amount of custom work is pretty close the same. just more money for the k parts b/c of newness and rarity of the swap being done.
then by his definition of custom mounts, most every swap needs at least one custom mount.the mounts were 400.00 - 450.00 shipped; not ebay.
but n e ways- n e who; to the thread starter.... i'd go w/the itr - cheaper, u get the 200hp (jdm), and u can bore it out to get more torque if u want- but if ya got the dough- go k

Wow this was an interesting thread! I personally wouldn't swap in either motor I would just drop in a gsr and be done with it, but that is just my opinion. But the k series is by far the more difficult swap and most expensive. And the whole 10sec b16 well I think jcrx pretty much covered my thoughts on that topic.

u r right, sorry, i ment d,b will need less change than a k,h, or f.... but the h,k,and f need custom work... however the amount of custom work is pretty close the same. just more money for the k parts b/c of newness and rarity of the swap being done.

The amount of work is not the same to swap a K series into a Civic as an H22. Have you even the faintest clue how big of a pain it is to wire one of those things in?

then by his definition of custom mounts, most every swap needs at least one custom mount.the mounts were 400.00 - 450.00 shipped;
Don't ever try to use you "intellect" to imply that I meant something , or assume what my fucking definition of something is. A custom mount is one made by you or someone else to place a motor in a car that no existing OEM mount can, aka K series or H series in a Civic, hence it's custom made for that swap. At least check prices before opening your filthy cocksucker. Assuming I am playing your game and only using brand new pricing H series =$600 K series = $640. So no, not every swap needs at least one custom mount.





Still waiting on my two bottles, the big ones.

ok let's not get testy... :grinno:
i'll show u the breakdown that a 96 hatchie owner showed me as to what it cost him to drop his h22a...




suspension = $175 for Progress H rated springs
brakes = $350 Integra rear disc brake conversion
mounts = $400 HCP motor mounts ($100 more for front crossbar)
swap = $2200 H22a shipped



$3225.00



* the cable shifter/box $100.
*obd1 to obd2 wiring harness = $100
*LS radiator = $50
*New clutch/flywheel = $500



Total price = $3975...but we'll say $4000. just to be safe since some lil shit ALWAYS will come up.


and the guy is still sitting on stoick shocks... :iceslolan

Right, and 1,075 of that stuff is not nescessary to swap in the motor.

Suspension, should be done anyway, not nescessary. Civics radiator will cool a H22A, so, not nescessary. Brake conversion, not nescessary. Clutch doesn't count, because it is not nescessary, unless his was screwed, but guess what, a D series one would be too, so, not nescessary. The cable shitfers and box should have come with a complete swap, and if it was the right year motor, there would be no need to buy the right harness. So being nice about it, it only cost him 2930 :) everything else was not needed for the swap.

Right, and 1,075 of that stuff is not nescessary to swap in the motor.

Suspension, should be done anyway, not nescessary. Civics radiator will cool a H22A, so, not nescessary. Brake conversion, not nescessary. Clutch doesn't count, because it is not nescessary, unless his was screwed, but guess what, a D series one would be too, so, not nescessary. The cable shitfers and box should have come with a complete swap, and if it was the right year motor, there would be no need to buy the right harness. So being nice about it, it only cost him 2930 :) everything else was not needed for the swap.

i disagree i think those r necessary..infact i think he should have spent more inorder for the car to be reliable...

full suspension for H is not the sdame as susp for d or b...
unless all ur planning to do is run str8 all day long...
brakes..u should get aftermarket big brake kit really if not atleast itr front and rears...
all swaps are not complete changeovers and even if they r shyt will be missing broken etc..

as i have said before companies only give u a 30 day warranty on the head and the block...everything els..ur basically on ur own...

if u say that its cheap to drop the swap its one thing..but to get the car running and handling and stopping the way u want..u'll spend 4g's+ now that i think about it...
but whatever jcrx...
i'm in no way undermining what ur saying..but i'm sure ur overlooking some stuff...

No, I am not overlooking anything :)

Here is my point, when you are trying to tell someone, "this is what it cost to install X motor in X car", you can't include extra mods like suspension (they might already have it), radiators (unless you physically need one because the motor doesn't fit. And you can't list other items that any motor would need when considering price, like a new clutch, or whatever that could be needed for any swap not just a K or H, or D or B or whatever, like broken sensors or shit parts those can come from any swap.

If you are going to be dispensing advice on motor swaps, don't be bullshitting based on personal preference.

full suspension for H is not the sdame as susp for d or b...
WTF? Suspension is suspension. Either you buy some cheap e-bay quality shit or you spend the $ and get good stuff.

Suspension you need for the H-series swap: springs and shocks or coilovers.

Upgraded suspension for any other swap or a stock car: ? Are you going to buy something other than springs and shocks or coilovers?

:screwy: