type R

I wanted to get a type R, but they are too expensive, do you think the GSR is also a good option or should I go for a Prelude?

Go w/ the GSR, you won't be dissapointed. Plus if you want to SC or turbo it, the GSR is a better platform than the Type R.

thanks dude, i'll cosider that, and why is it a better platform that the ITR?

the only reason i can think of for it being better to turbo would be the slightly lower compression pistons.

maybe a bit out of topic, but what do you guys think about the 02`Jetta GLS 1.8T and the 03`Eclipse GTS? how do they respond to mods? are they worth the price (not that expensive, but when you're poor like me.... :( ) and how do they compare to the integra type R? thats all, thanks guys!

uh id stick with the GSR.
1) VW is expensive to maintain, not alot of parts
2) new eclipse sucks

yeah i know the new eclipse sucks but i saw one beating a viper last week, so i had to ask

ok well thats obviously heavily modified, which doesnt really make it an Eclipse anymore. more like a bunch of aftermarket parts. i still say GSR. not too expensive, easy to work on. honda reliability. good power.

you're right! is there any other reason why the GSR is better than the type R?

alphalanos - WTF are you smoking?
VW is expensive to maintain, not alot of parts
Bullsh*t. What the hell kind of parts are you talking about?

ok well thats obviously heavily modified, which doesnt really make it an Eclipse anymore. more like a bunch of aftermarket parts.
So if you put a built H22a into an Integra and turbo'd it, put in a roll cage, suspension, all the goods; it wouldn't be an Integra anymore?

Pure garbage, man.

But the GS-R is not better for anything other than price. The Type R has a better engine to start off with, and better suspension. Comparing the ITR with the Eclipse, the Eclipse weighs quite a bit more (like 600lbs). But the Eclipse has 15hp and 75ft lbs of tq on the ITR. Again with the ITR and the Jetta, the Jetta weighs more than the ITR (like 400lbs). The ITR has 15hp on the Jetta, but has the Jetta has 44ft lbs of tq more than the ITR. It's your car man, you need to decide for yourself. Test drive all the cars and decide that way.

no an H22 integra wouldnt really be an integra anymore apart form suspension and body. its more like a prelude with integra shell. (GM does this all the time....they have like 3 or 4 mini vans that have almost no differences yet are called different names.) and about the VW's it is true. theyre european cars. they are expensive. as for the parts i was wrong about that.

The other things you have to consider about the engines in those different cars is how that power is distributed. Just as an example, X car could have a 3.2 v-6 with 245 hp, but it only hits that hp at 5,600 rpm and before and after that rpm it only has a max of 170. Whereas Y car with a 2.5 I4 which has equal weight, can have 225 hp, but it holds it at about that same hp from 4,500 to 7,000. I would put my money on the car with 225 hp, yes less, but with equal gearing it will be faster because of a longer powerband , in my opinion. This is somewhat typical of car manufacturers to show peak hp, even if the peak is only there for a short duration. I know for sure, the GSR makes exceptional power after 5,500 or so, til redline. The eclipse, I've driven the new GTS's, and I was not that impressed, it was relatively quick, but it lacked the honda powerband that I love. The new eclipse pulled like my friend's stock (minus catalytic converter) nissan 240sx, it just had power after 4k and didn't really ramp up much at redline, and kinda dropped off as you got really close. The Jetta would simply be fun because you can play with a turbo. I don't know how much boost the stock fuel system and block can handle, but do some research on the Jetta and see if you can simply turn up the boost with a manual boost controller (which would be a cheap easy way to get power). Out of the three, the GSR would handle the best, then the jetta, and then the eclipse (in my opinion). Hope some of this info can help.

The best way to figure out if you would like the car, is to simply drive it. Go to a dealer, or private sale, and just drive the car and see which one you really like. You might love the handling of one car, but the power of another, and you can decide which is more important to you.

no an H22 integra wouldnt really be an integra anymore apart form suspension and body.
Ok...then I'll make sure to tell my friend that he's not driving a Civic anymore and that he ownes a Prelude :screwy:

But a ITR will take a '03 Eclipse GTS despite the number differences. Well that's in a short spurt. And also, ITR might be a better motor to start off, but in the end the Type R motor doesn't have as much potential as a GSR. So I say go GSR!

I see what you're saying about the ITR vs GS-R, but I disagree with the potential thing. If you know what you're doing (and do it right), you can make the ITR a lot faster. As long as you have a good engine management, keep up on maintemance, and watch for warning signs of problems; you'd have no problem boosting the ITR and making more power with it's higher compression than the GS-R. Low compression is more reliable and "safe" but higher compression will make more power without the need for as much boost. So I think the ITR has just as much potential, if not more, than the GS-R engine does. But I do agree, I'd buy a GS-R over an ITR anyday (just for price).

The other things you have to consider about the engines in those different cars is how that power is distributed. Just as an example, X car could have a 3.2 v-6 with 245 hp, but it only hits that hp at 5,600 rpm and before and after that rpm it only has a max of 170. Whereas Y car with a 2.5 I4 which has equal weight, can have 225 hp, but it holds it at about that same hp from 4,500 to 7,000. I would put my money on the car with 225 hp, yes less, but with equal gearing it will be faster because of a longer powerband , in my opinion. This is somewhat typical of car manufacturers to show peak hp, even if the peak is only there for a short duration. I know for sure, the GSR makes exceptional power after 5,500 or so, til redline. The eclipse, I've driven the new GTS's, and I was not that impressed, it was relatively quick, but it lacked the honda powerband that I love. The new eclipse pulled like my friend's stock (minus catalytic converter) nissan 240sx, it just had power after 4k and didn't really ramp up much at redline, and kinda dropped off as you got really close. The Jetta would simply be fun because you can play with a turbo. I don't know how much boost the stock fuel system and block can handle, but do some research on the Jetta and see if you can simply turn up the boost with a manual boost controller (which would be a cheap easy way to get power). Out of the three, the GSR would handle the best, then the jetta, and then the eclipse (in my opinion). Hope some of this info can help.

The best way to figure out if you would like the car, is to simply drive it. Go to a dealer, or private sale, and just drive the car and see which one you really like. You might love the handling of one car, but the power of another, and you can decide which is more important to you.
ok, I get what you say, so a 195hp@ 8000rpm would be better than a 215hp@ 5400rpm, because you would get more or the same amount of hp at other rpm's that are below or above peak, am I right? and what about torque, does it works the same way, 130ft-lbs@ 7500rpm would be better than 245ft-lbs@ 3200rpm?...
---P.D the numbers are from an ITR and a SRT-4---

Not exactly. What I was trying to explain how the power is distributed throughout the powerband of the engine. It doesn't matter what rpm it's at, it matters for how MANY rpms it has that power or close to the power. Some cars peak really high, but their average power is low, whereas some cars have pretty much even powerbands, where you get the same amount of power over most of the rpm's. GSR's have good power from 5,500rpm and up. What this means is that it's pulling with the higher amt of hp for 2,500 rpms. Other cars may be able to pull more hp but only for 1,000 revs, then it drops back down low again. It just depends on how the motor is built. I prefer to have a powerband that ramps up like most honda cars.

ok a see, and how can you determine that when you are comparing two cars?, I mean how do you know for how many rpms it has peak power or close to it or the average power

You look at their specs. Check out edmunds.com, they tell you the hp, tq, and where those peak.

If you want to compare a SRT-4 and a ITR then a SRT-4 is faster stock. That is on the 1/4 mile and top end. ITR gears are too short so you wouldn't have much top end, but it's very good for 1/4 mile.

ok a see, and how can you determine that when you are comparing two cars?, I mean how do you know for how many rpms it has peak power or close to it or the average power

The best way to compare two cars is too look at a dyno graph of each car's power. This would show you how much power is at each rpm, and from there you have to take into account the weight of the two vehicles (heavier is going to be slower), the type of gearing (short gears, long gears, funny gear), the type of drive it is (RWD, FWD, AWD), suspension, on a minor note, can affect acceleration. There are a lot of factors that you must consider. The best way to get a feel for a car, is to drive one. If you want to see which is faster, try this site (www.dragtimes.com) use the browse function and see what actual people have run with specific cars. Granted, these are not all exact, and not all cars are going to have all their mods listed. But most of the cars on there have their mods listed and you can see what kind of times they are running. This is also taking into account driver skill, and sometimes you have to worry about elevation. However this will give you a good idea of about how fast real people have driven those cars you want to compare.

that's the answer I was looking for, thanks for the input bro

that's the answer I was looking for, thanks for the input bro


No worries mate. I'm glad I can help someone here.

where did you learned all this stuff?

From research and interest in cars. I've worked on a few cars, and I did extensive research before I chose a car. I have always had an interest in modifying cars, so I'm constantly looking at dyno graphs of different cars with different mods, and trying to learn from that. Most of this "knowledge" comes from experience or just a strong education in the sciences (always did well in physic's and such in h/s and college). It makes sense to me. The other stuff is experience based. My friend owns a v6 mustang which has more power than my car by like 20 hp, and more than 110 torque, but I can whoop his ass anytime I want, from any speed other than from a stop (usually catch up there in second gear bout halfway through). So I know his car weighs about 300-400 lbs more than mine, and I've seen a dyno of v6 mustangs, and they peak their hp for about 500 rpms, and then they drop it quickly. Peaky powerband, and I can consistantly pull on him because my powerband is longer.

I see, I'm 17, still in high school but I try to read almost everything I find about cars, hopefully someday I would learn enough...what car do you own? where can I get some dyno graphs on the internet, any paritcular site?

I have the 1998 GSR shown in my signature. As for dyno graphs... you have to do a lot of searching on google. I have found a few magazines that have an article on putting intake/header/exhaust on GSR's and they show dyno's of the stock car, then after each mod. Just look for stuff like that.

ok bro, thanks for your help

"How To Build Honda Horsepower" - Great book with dyno graphs for everything in the book (intakes, headers, exhausts, t-bodies, intake manifolds, turbos, superchargers, cams, cam gears).