2005 GTO Performance?

I'm interested in getting a 2005 GTO. Anyone have any real world performance specs on one from a dragstrip, etc.? Looking for 0 - 60 ft, 1/8 ET, 1/4 ET, and trap speed. Thanks.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 Spark Plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

Stock....395HP. Roughly same torque. They tend to put down 340-345 RWHP.
Run a low-mid 13, at around 105.

You know it's powered by a Chevy engine right?

You know it's imported from another country right?

You know it has nothing to do with a REAL GTO right?

You know it's powered by a Chevy engine right?

You know it's imported from another country right?

You know it has nothing to do with a REAL GTO right?

Yeah. Its powered by a Chevy LS2. Imported from Holden Australia but Holden is a subsidiary of GM. No resurrected muscle car nowadays is the real thing. For example the new Dodge Charger is not a real Dodge Charger IMO. But the pseudo GTO is the best Pontiac has for now. The GXP doesn't even come close. I test drove a 2005 GTO and its not bad for the cost. It grows on you. It beats getting a riceburner.

Of the 4 GM cars I own only one was Made in USA, the Alero. The Regals and my GTP were Made in Canada.



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

While at Norwalk, I saw no less than 30 GTOs of the modern era competing. The quickest "pure" stocker went 13.25 @ 108. I talked to him. When new, it went 13.50s, just like the magazines say. By learning to launch it and changing his shift points, he got it down a 1/4 of a second. He said there's a definite "learning curve" involved in driving it.
The average 6-speed cars were running 13.50s. The automatics were anywhere from 13.60s to 14.0s.
There was one, modified rather extensively, but still a "street" car, going 10.30s. it had a cam, intake, headers, injectors, porting, and a 250 "hit" of nitrous, and slicks.
The stockers with slicks were all right around the 13.0-12.90 range. A couple were there with small centrifugal superchargers. One was a Vortec, the other a Paxton. They went 12.0s-11.90s.
Looks like one of the "hot" tickets is to remove those purty covers from the coil packs and let the air flow through.
Now that the premiere performance car from GM is not a Chevy, can we please stop refering to this corporate engine as a Chevy? It bears no resemblence to any Chevy engine I ever built, and I've built a few... hundred....

While at Norwalk, I saw no less than 30 GTOs of the modern era competing. The quickest "pure" stocker went 13.25 @ 108. I talked to him. When new, it went 13.50s, just like the magazines say. By learning to launch it and changing his shift points, he got it down a 1/4 of a second. He said there's a definite "learning curve" involved in driving it.
The average 6-speed cars were running 13.50s. The automatics were anywhere from 13.60s to 14.0s.
There was one, modified rather extensively, but still a "street" car, going 10.30s. it had a cam, intake, headers, injectors, porting, and a 250 "hit" of nitrous, and slicks.
The stockers with slicks were all right around the 13.0-12.90 range. A couple were there with small centrifugal superchargers. One was a Vortec, the other a Paxton. They went 12.0s-11.90s.
Looks like one of the "hot" tickets is to remove those purty covers from the coil packs and let the air flow through.
Now that the premiere performance car from GM is not a Chevy, can we please stop refering to this corporate engine as a Chevy? It bears no resemblence to any Chevy engine I ever built, and I've built a few... hundred....


Thanks for the info. Looks like it has a lot of potential. On what we call the engine by name or RPO is probably based on personal preference but I agree 100% that they are now and have been corporate platforms. The same applies to the LS1 and the L98 or just about any engine GM produces nowadays. Calling it by the RPO code is fine with me.

I can just envision the mods that can be done to the new GTO which for me is a major consideration when purchasing a modern day musclecar especially when you have major players like the Chrysler SRT-8 and its counterparts.



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

Awesome cars, awesome engines. We (in the rebuilding business) simply refer to them (the engines) as LSx. And yes, there's a TON of potential there.
One REALLY bright spot if trying to compare GTO to Mustang and Charger, is the interior. Work of art! The Mustang I drove felt too plastic. The articles I've read about Charger made the same complaints.
FWIW, Charger is not in the same class as GTO. It's much larger and heavier, aimed more at Bonneville (to use a Pontiac class).

I think that "bending" the rules in order to make the chevy born engine a pontiac is a sad , sad reason to make it,
"all better"

I know Mr P you dont think the engine is a chevy, but since it was used in chevy before branching out to Cad and PMD I think your just changeing the rules in oder to make this car ok...it's not real Pontiac engine.

Sure it would be great to see a real GTO, but come on, chevy built or "inspired" engines do not belong in a Pontiac.

Bare true to your brand, you cant have it both ways, you cant drive up in a GTO but buy from the Chevy performance catalog.

MrP we dont see eye to eye with this, I will try to tell you why Pontiac has to be Pontiac for me.

For me struggling with no real hard core engine parts and high prices in the past (not really now, put prices are still high) was a part of owning a PMD made engine. It made it more when you beat a SBC that has cheap HP parts, with an engine that has not really been supported since the late 60's.

It's more to own a Pontiac engine, you have to put up with seeing SBCs with every part you would ever need being made for them. With a Pontiac you have to search hard, and even today the ammount of money you have to pay for say a belt driven timeing chain (BOP) is about the same as buying a forged SBC bottom end.

It means more when you run a pontiac, your truer then any other brand.

To be a true PMD person is Pontiac , not a Pontiac car with a Chevy engine, and splitting hairs with the chevy born "L" engine calling it a GM engine so it's "OK" may work to make eveyone who wants this fake GTO car "feel" better but in the end it's NOT a PONTIAC engine.

IA2 400 VS the LSX? you tell me MrP

Con grads on making your GTP fast, alot of people are doing fast times with that 3800. Do you take out your headlight to get those times?

Con grads on making your GTP fast, alot of people are doing fast times with that 3800. Do you take out your headlight to get those times?

The way I look at it is everyone's entitled to their own opinions and beliefs. When you guys haggle it makes for interesting reading. Otherwise it would be a boring forum. :lol2:

Thanks for the compliment on my GTP. I spent over two years with various mods as the funds became available. Some of the guys have their 1/4 ETs down to the 11s - 10s but thats with Stage II intercoolers and all that nice stuff like cams and roller rockers. I try to stay safe without blowing the engine and the 4T65E-HD tranny. It's a consistent ET/Bracket car. I use Autotap on a laptop for engine parameters and to tune it.

I remove the driver's side headlight and get rid of excess weight like the rear seat and stuff in the trunk. Also I run VP Racing C10 unleaded fuel. I never get over 2 degrees knock retard at WOT. I could drop down another SC pulley size but that will probably require a Stage 1 intercooler. So far all mods are bolt-on. It's a great sleeper.

Nice chatting. Later.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM, SLP Headers,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, 2.5 DP/Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, ZZP Stage 1 72mm TB,
TB spacer, MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 103,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials
1/4 ET: 13.210 sec. @ 104.490 mph
0 - 60 ft: 1.945 sec.

The Aussies have been busy retuning the LS2, with nothing more than a CAI they have the LS2 singing.

http://ls2gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38231

Ramair72, we've had this conversation before. As I have built hundreds of small block Chevy engines, and a few now, LSx engines, I can tell you, they ARE NOT SIMILAR. Regardless of how you wish to state it's a Chevy, it is not. It is a corporate colaboration, resulting in a superior performance engine to any other currently available in any American or other powered car. And it IS an American power plant. At the time of it's introduction, it was offered ONLY in Corvette, as that was the GM premiere performance car at the time. It came in the "average" Chevy and Pontiac (F-bodies) at the same time. Caddy didn't get until a few years later. The same will be true of LS7. Corvette represenets a tremendous investment on GM's part, and installing LS7 in GTO at the same time could hurt Corvette sales (maybe, maybe not, but that's GM's take on it). LS7 will be added to GTO mid-year. Look for Mustang to go back to the drawing board AGAIN, to try to compete (blower or no blower...).
You can call the Chevy dealer and ask for a Chevy performance catelog. They won't have one. They WILL, however, have a "GM Performance" catelog, that includes small block Chevy (both version), big block Chevy (all variations), LSx, Pontiac (aside from trinkets, they actually have a couple of NEW cam grinds for the old Injun), and DRCE (Olds). There are no parts for the Buick V8, but plenty for the Buick V6. The Pontiac 2.5 SD is also in there, as is the Eco-Tech 2.2. The GM engines come from a separate division known as "Powertrain".
As for LSx vs. IA II? Well, apples-to-donuts. 500-plus CID versus 364 is hardly a straight-up comparison. But we'll try. The IA block weighs, bare, almost as much as a complete shortblock LSx. It (IA) is designed specifically for high-powered racing. LSx is a stock engine for stock automobiles. Stock LS6 heads flow more than Edelbrock heads. Cost less, too.
For a truly accurate comparison, use a '70 Ram Air III 400. Stock engine for a performance-oriented stocker. Even then, the Poncho has an edge in both CID and torque production. It will not, however, live to 7,000 RPM (without extensive, which equals EXPENSIVE, modifications).
You've been at this for a while. You MUST accept that measuring things the same way we did in 1973 simply doesn't apply to modern cars. It DOES still apply to the older cars. Modern cars are made all over the world and put together at one location. One possible exception to that would be Saturn, made entirely in Tennessee (at least they were before the UAW got involved, can't say now). GTO fits the name perfectly. It IS a "homogenized grand touring" car. That's what "GTO" means.
Lastly, you might want to check out Kaufmann Racing's MR-1 block. It will be a better item than IA II. More accurate and less money (still iron). It was what was in the car that took the "Butler Frantic 4" money at Norwalk. There were 6 Butler aluminum blocks trying to make the field, and two MR-1s. Both the MR-1s made it. Both lived the entire weekend without failures (over 2,500 HP). There were zero iron IAs trying to make the field. Just to update you on what's going on out there...

I dont recall trying to make 60's HP look better then current HP, I would never go as far as making that statement. I do know however like you said

"500-plus CID versus 364 is hardly a straight-up comparison."

I know the "no replacement for displacement" ring.

I would never bet a 70 400 with #16 heads would beat the modern chevy L engine, it's just not going to work, the L engine has that 400 by the nuts. This all gos out the window when you stab in an forged bottom end and stick it with the same roller cams and rockers, add in a modern " 8 " shaped chamber and flow numbes that match it's displacment...Top it off with a tuned port induction Then you have a better POWER engine then the chevy L engine.

I say power because i'm sure that when you look at how well each engine uses it's power you will find that you cant beat an engine made with ones and zeros "1100101010010101001"

I never said anything was wrong with the engine other then it being born of chevy parents, I just look at this engine and the cars it gos into like I look at the "one time use" flashlights you find in line at walmart.

I guess when you head "so and so has a fast GTO" you would tend to think, "I wonnder what hes got under the hood"

Now with these cars it's like the one time use flashlight, "I have the red one (chevy guys car)" I have the black one (Pontiac guys car with the same engine as chevy guy).

It's all the same, the playing field is flat, I have messed with lots of engines, changed heads cams intakes and when I look under the hood of one of these one time use flashlight cars I see a 1/8th thich plastic cover that says "pontiac" or "chevy" "caddy" but under the plastic is the same engine with NO ROOTS but chevys I wonder how shit deep I would be trying to change those heads or even the spark plugs.

The companys have taken all the colors of all the auto makes and turned them black, no chevy orange, no pontiac blue, it's all one size fits all.

It used to be you would buy a car for it's engine and road map from that point, now it's a highway with everyone doing the same things, why.....it's the same engine......BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I know youtalked about the new KRE block, but why the hell dont they just make an Alum. block, good god, when you can go and get a CNC alum. BB chevy block that will beat the snot out of these engine they go and make an IRON block...
I have been putting away for a IAII Alum tall deck, and now they ave a better engine but it's Iron, sound like the path of the IAI all over again, do you have an Idea on the changes to the block that make it better, I guess the cam valley is good, but what about the crank alignement problems? solved?

After I post hear i'm going to surf over to the KRE webpage and take a peek.
Thanks for the info MrP