Oval Stock Car Racing

Anyone on here racing stock ovals? We are building a 1990 240sx and any setup and mod help would be appreciated. 3/8 mile asphalt track with banking.

Thanks in Advance
Mike

Surely someone out there is racing this car.

Surely someone out there is racing this car.
Oval track? As in NASCAR? Sorry, but that is not really fun to me, don't know about anyone else. Why don't you just use a chevy or something?

Not in Oval Track, that's right up there in the "why the hell would do that???" category with off-roading the car!

yeah. to limit the potential of a 240 by making turn left over and over again is pointless and sad and a waste of one of the few 240s left

yup.

Anyone on here racing stock ovals? We are building a 1990 240sx and any setup and mod help would be appreciated. 3/8 mile asphalt track with banking.

Thanks in Advance
Mike

You need to know the degree of banking to adequately setup the car's alignment. You need to run an unequal crossweight setup to optimize outer tire adhesion.

As far as adequate wheel rates are concerned you need to first dictate the degree of embankment as this affects spring loading and effective rate. Sway bars can be used effectively here because you have a steady state loading on the car. Effective rate of the sway bars can be determined by the diameter to the 4th power. Also bear in mind any differences in swing arm length between two bars, and the endlinks as well.

Emphasis should be placed on the low speed valving of the shock absorbers. Koni if you are cheap, Penske, Moton, etc. if you are baller.

You should look into redesigning the front suspension to involve greater ackermann as well as lengthening the lower control arms to increase track (especially helpful when you are using the car in a weight class). On your wheel choice pay good attention to your scrub radii as well as kingpin inclination angles. This will help to maintain a softer steering, which helps avoid premature driver fatigue.

If you are using an S13 they have a good amount of anti-squat built into the rear subframe suspension alignment geometry. You can reduce this by shimming the subframe about 0.75 to 1 deg tops. Ideally you would just reconstruct the rear spindles and lower control arm. The rear traction arms should also be relocated on the chassis to lessen the bump-steer (toe in on OEM setup) this will provide stable cornering by reducing toe differences in the suspension, as well as saving your tires.

As far as weight is concerned either chassis can be dropped to 2300 lbs. fairly easily. The S14's might weigh more but thats because they have more shit that can be pulled off of it.

Oil systems suck for oval tracks in the Nissans. You will need to replace the oil pan with a complely baffeled unit and I highly suggest an Accusump as backup. If you have the money go to dry sump.

Check list before you even get on the track:

- FIA Cert. Seat
- Nomex, lots of it.
- Halon Systems are nice, but not required.
- Roll Cage (Nascar door bars, reinforced w/ Gussets, etc.)
- SA2000+ Snell Cert. Helmet (full face unless you like reconstructive surgery)
- Removable Steering Wheel (can't get out of car fast w/o it)
- Window Net
- Padded Cage Bars
- Feet Restraints (simple box welded around pedals)
- Helmet Restraints and/or Hans Device

It's better to be poor and safe, than dead or paralyzed.

Good luck.

wtf was that i felt like i was reading a textbook for classes im not going to take for 2 more years and then at the end its like the safety warnings they used to have at the end of the G.I. Joe cartoon...but still....thanks for the information...that was very detailed.

wtf was that i felt like i was reading a textbook for classes im not going to take for 2 more years and then at the end its like the safety warnings they used to have at the end of the G.I. Joe cartoon...but still....thanks for the information...that was very detailed.

Unlike the people above me I have some compassion for people who actually do something with their cars. I am not afflicted by the stupid thought of "save the 240s", I say we gut them all and race them till the last one hits a wall and explodes.

Better death than getting hit by some dumb bitch in a SUV.

you are one bad crazy reactionary long ass detailed post making kinda mother fucker, mother fucker.
http://regencymovies.com/images/movies/pulp_fiction,0.jpg
Compassion or no, you should stick to the posts where you are advising people about their rear suspension alignment angles and sway bar diameter not telling other people what do with their car. Oh ya ok lets all crash every last 240. Instead of "save the 240s" you are "crash all 240s into a wall either NASCAR racing or trying to drift". Which is worse? Why are you bitching?

And what the hell is "people who actually do something with their cars"? You have to gut out your interior to be a "real" 240 owner or something?

oh my i like the pulp fiction pic. elitist i understood about half of what u were saying but its alright u and nissan fanatic can be like the duo of people i dont understand. ass far as oval track goes its your car go do what you want. personaly id get a Sentra if i were gunna be hitting the track like you are.

To Nissanelitist,

Thanks for the info. We raced go-karts for two years so I understand most of your post. The track is about 12 degrees, 3/8 mile and most of the grip is gone. Other constraints are 1) stock class with only factory options allowed. 2) Must weight 22 pound per horsepower to equal out the cars. (ours is 3,080 lbs)

Any ideas of the following

1) Left weight %
2) Rear weight %
3) Cross Weight %
4) Can I increase ackerman on a basic chassis? Haven't looked at how it set up yet.
5) Basic ideas on springs and shocks. Can't run adjustable shocks but I also know that all stock shocks are not created equally.

Email me if you like. Aso going to have extra parts if you need something.

Thanks,
Mike

Oval track? As in NASCAR? Sorry, but that is not really fun to me, don't know about anyone else. Why don't you just use a chevy or something?

We run a stock 4 cylinder class and the best cars to run are RWD. Most domestic RWD cars are V8. Also at 152 lbs torque, the 240 comes off the corner great. There are other cars out there with the HP but not the torque.

Mike

We run a stock 4 cylinder class and the best cars to run are RWD. Most domestic RWD cars are V8. Also at 152 lbs torque, the 240 comes off the corner great. There are other cars out there with the HP but not the torque.

Mike

What other cars run in the class?

And it seems like you should have some kind of engineer in your pit crew to find those weight answers and all that instead of asking around in some forum.

There are other cars out there with the HP but not the torque.
Mike
That is cool, but I have a hatred for stock car racing. It is not racing. Kart racing is, my step-dad used to do that, but going left all day long, that is dumb in my opinion. I plan on racing my car, but I will be making right AND left hand turns, and it won't be stock, thats for sure!!
Don't know how fast or dangerous this is, but there is a fire extinguishing system you may want to get also, check the other threads on here for links for parts and info.

Compassion or no, you should stick to the posts where you are advising people about their rear suspension alignment angles and sway bar diameter not telling other people what do with their car. Oh ya ok lets all crash every last 240. Instead of "save the 240s" you are "crash all 240s into a wall either NASCAR racing or trying to drift". Which is worse? Why are you bitching?


I don't give a shit if they are skydiving in it, as long as they do something with it that they enjoy.

I also don't give a shit what you think I should say or what you think I should post. I'll post whatever I damn well please.


And what the hell is "people who actually do something with their cars"? You have to gut out your interior to be a "real" 240 owner or something?

You are drama queen just looking to start some shit. Go away.

You are drama queen just looking to start some shit. Go away.

"HE" is a drama queen? You've been here for 2 days and have done nothing but talk shit and cram your ideals down everyones throat. Besides, it's easy for you to say that everyone can crash their 240s because your not looking for one, but I really hope that when you smash yours, there will none left.

your name says it all ur Elitist. how does it go? arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still retarted.

thank you slidestar thats exactly what i was thinking.

i bet its cuz you're from texas. crazy ass separatist know it all mother fucker, mother fucker. get out of my face. go secede from the union.

Granted he's the one actually trying to help instead of just bitching about how it would be lame.

Thanks for the info. We raced go-karts for two years so I understand most of your post. The track is about 12 degrees, 3/8 mile and most of the grip is gone. Other constraints are 1) stock class with only factory options allowed. 2) Must weight 22 pound per horsepower to equal out the cars. (ours is 3,080 lbs)


12 degrees of banking and a steady state cornering force of 1.0G would require roughly a 25% increase in typical spring rate. The SE's have a slightly stiffer spring rate, and I would shoot for some OEM HICAS / JDM sways which have thicker diameters. Pair off an OEM SE front, with a JDM or HICAS rear and you should get a good amount of turn-in.

3,080 lbs. = 140 HP


1) Left weight %
2) Rear weight %
3) Cross Weight %
4) Can I increase ackerman on a basic chassis? Haven't looked at how it set up yet.
5) Basic ideas on springs and shocks. Can't run adjustable shocks but I also know that all stock shocks are not created equally.


Statically you want to run wedge depending on which way you are going. Odds are you will be turning left, so...

With an oval car you need to run odd and mismatched cross weights, called wedging the car if you aren't familar with it. Because the car turns only left you need to focus on loading the outer right tires via aerodynamic downforce and weight loading.

So you will end up with a corner weight that looks like this:

~3100 lbs. Car

FR - 900
FL - 700
RR - 700
RL - 800

You do this to maintain more weight on the tire that does most of the work to prevent understeer. However this can only be used when you have excellent tire adhesion. So, this is where trial and error come into play.

I would initially setup the car with a small percentage of wedge and keep the tire sizing equal (ie. no stagger). If you get alot of understeer, go to your tire temps. If you are overheating the front right then you are either overdriving the car or you have too much weight on the tire.

Camber, and tires will all need to be setup via a few test runs with a simple pyrometer. Remain absolute in your judgement and change one thing at a time. Don't forget how any variable ultimately translates into the tire, so think dynamically.

If you can work metal you can give that car a good edge by doing alot of aerodynamic work. Since speeds will be slow, you need to make things have high angles of attack. It's better to get through the corner faster in this case because speed is hard to gain, spec racing miatas learn this early. Faster you corner the faster you are on the straight.

There are also alot of ways to cheat. You just have to know what they check on the car.

"HE" is a drama queen? You've been here for 2 days and have done nothing but talk shit and cram your ideals down everyones throat. Besides, it's easy for you to say that everyone can crash their 240s because your not looking for one, but I really hope that when you smash yours, there will none left.

Ok. No problem chief.

thank you slidestar thats exactly what i was thinking.

i bet its cuz you're from texas. crazy ass separatist know it all mother fucker, mother fucker. get out of my face. go secede from the union.

Wow that is some ignorant ass commentary.

How about you stop trolling this guys thread.

Orestes all I have to say is YOU GOT :owned: by the NEWB. HAHA funny shit too, good job Elitist, I have a feeling your gonna be a great addition to these forums.

Orestes all I have to say is YOU GOT :owned: by the NEWB. HAHA funny shit too, good job Elitist, I have a feeling your gonna be a great addition to these forums.

Werd.

thank you slidestar thats exactly what i was thinking.

i bet its cuz you're from texas. crazy ass separatist know it all mother fucker, mother fucker. get out of my face. go secede from the union.

I wouldnt say he knows it all... just more than you



TX > *

yeah. to limit the potential of a 240 by making turn left over and over again is pointless and sad and a waste of one of the few 240s left

The cars we run are not your high end, low mileage cars. Most have been removed from the junk yard and repaired for track use. I bought two from the same guy and both are at the end of their useful life. (dented door, dented fender, 236,000 mile, hole in the floor, and ragged out).

We give them one last chance to shine, before giving them a proper burial.

Mike.

PS Come on guys, quit trashing my thread. Let's all play nice in the 240 sandbox.

well as long as they are junkyard cars i guess so but still a 240sx can do so much more...
dont get me wrong im not trying to make you think like me but go find an autox org in your area. thats the beginning of real racing. i view oval track as competing. its as much of a sport as poker though.
competition without need for tons of skill can still be fun, especially if its low budget grassroots stuff without all the media and corporate bullshit in nascar.

I wouldnt say he knows it all... just more than you



TX > *



hahaha, RW and his x > y > z breakdown's. In this case Texas > dirt.

what about texas=dirt? lol jp :D

what about texas=dirt? lol jp :D


Nope, RW had it right

tx=long ways away

i think texas, northern california, and southern california should all be their own countries. the rest of the US is dragging us down. Florida could be their own country too because they are kinda sticking out.

NissanElitist,

Does that mean that there are three different types of sways and springs for the 240?

1) Standard?
2) SE
3)Hicas?

I know about the first two but give me some insight on the Hicas.

Also, since we are turning left, wouldn't it be better to have a softer left side and stiffer rights?

Thanks,
Mike