suggestions on first car

']you make me laugh.

ok...and why dont you explain your thoughts instead of making petty, ignorant comments??? i also get quite a nice, internal chuckle when i read your comments...

Wow, there have been quite a few ignorant statements in this thread, and it's a shame really.

Anyhow the only advise I would give you is whatever you do don't settle on the first thing you come across, test drive several cars and do some good research on the vehicles you're considering. Also, with you being young I would (as I always do) advise you to get something that isn't very fast, insurance is very expensive, and you should really get plenty (read: years) of experience behind the wheel before jumping into a high performance vehicle. That doesn't mean you can't have a sporty car, or something that is fun to drive though, so take these things into consideration if you would.

you make me laugh.

Okay, now I'm completely sure that you're biased. If you expect a $35,000 luxury car (non-GTR Skyline) to outhandle a $50,000 sports car (300ZX Twin Turbo), you've got your facts very, very mixed up.

well.... the R34 2.5GT Skyline isn't exactly a slouch....

I don't think that the Skyline matters much to anyone who lives in USA. Its really a pointless argument. Over here if you wanted nissan in the 90's you had the 300 or the 240. The 300 would kill the 240 in every category. I can't speak for Japan I don't live there or plan to. I don't think that anyone has the right to shit on a 300zx in its day it would match or beat anything in its class, even the famed supra. To tell me that theres a better car than it in Japan really doesn't mean anything the skyline may as well be on another planet to me, its not really a contender. I personally like the way the 300zx looked better than the skyline anyway. From the back a skyline looks like a damn chevy impala with those lights.

well.... the R34 2.5GT Skyline isn't exactly a slouch....

yeah, but it wouldnt really be fair to pin a 15 year old designed car against a 5 year old designed car. and i bet the Z32TT will hold its own against it reguardless. but i am with you there, the R34 lesser GTR would be the only non GTR to compete against the Z32TT. but i feel if your gonna compare the 2 cars, you might as well compare ones of the same year. i even through in the R33 because in Japan the Z32 carried on until 99...

i think its just funny that the R32 GTR with its AWD underrated 280ps(around there somewhere) only beats the 278ps Z32TT 2+2(which is heavier) by a considerably small margin and this kid thinks that the 210hp R32 non AWD GTR is going to keep up with it...

yeah, but it wouldnt really be fair to pin a 15 year old designed car against a 5 year old designed car. and i bet the Z32TT will hold its own against it reguardless. but i am with you there, the R34 lesser GTR would be the only non GTR to compete against the Z32TT. but i feel if your gonna compare the 2 cars, you might as well compare ones of the same year. i even through in the R33 because in Japan the Z32 carried on until 99...

I don't even think the R34 2.5GT would be able to take down the 300ZX TT, but it'd be very close. And the fact that the 300ZX is about ten years older really shows which one is the winner.

If you expect a $35,000 luxury car (non-GTR Skyline) to outhandle a $50,000 sports car (300ZX Twin Turbo), you've got your facts very, very mixed up.
LUXURY CAR? are you kidding me?

Just some info on pricing:

90 NA listed at $27,500 (R&Ts "Guide to the New Z")

90 TT listed at $33,000 (R&T March 90, titled "Import car of the year")

91 NA 2+2 listed at $31,250 (R&T June 91)

91 TT listed at $33,000 (R&T January 92 "Long term wrap up")

92 TT listed at $36,000 (R&T April 92)

95 TT listed at $42,000 (R&T July & August 95)

96 Conv listed at $45,000 (Edmunds.com RoadTest)

I guess the 90s were worse than I thought inflation wise.

Anyway...just FYI

*heads back out to the garage*

whoa..... i was just offering a non GT-R skyline that has a similar price and similar spec to the ZX. i seem to recall that there was a similar R33.

anyway.
y'know, i never knew that the U.S never got the skyline, which is why i am now very confused about all of them kids who go on about it when they've never even seen one, let alone driven one....

Exactly now you see my point, overseas I could see comparing it, but in USA? The only reason I dog on it is because of the rice appeal that its gotten over here. I know its a good car.

y'know, i never knew that the U.S never got the skyline

Yeah we kinda got the shaft on that one.

which is why i am now very confused about all of them kids who go on about it when they've never even seen one, let alone driven one....

Because they are idiots.

Anyway, do you happen to have one of those nice Euro spec 190mph 300ZX TT speedometers sitting around?

http://img173.echo.cx/img173/7356/sawindash0dd6jt.jpg


Even though I could still top that one out too. :cool:

From the back a skyline looks like a damn chevy impala with those lights.

your opinion, but the impala looks like a skyline, not the other way around
the only real popular car to predate the skyline with the double circle tails is the corvette, and that was only by a couple years

i think an R32 gts-t has the same handling potential as a z32, because it IIRC has the same suspension(does the various GTS models have hicas? i think so), the z would stomp it because of its HP dominance though.
the only thing is that the R32 GTS is 300lbs or so lighter than a z, but the z's 75+ extra hp more than makes up for it


the R34 GTR would generally beat the z32 in almost all categories, but then again it is a 10 yr newer car with 10 yr newer technology. the z32 and the R32 GTR were pretty even back in the day, just the GTR was a little faster because it had more technology put into it just to make the big luxury car compete well.

Thats true the Impala came out with those lights afterward, but they do still look very much alike.

the z32 and the R32 GTR were pretty even back in the day, just the GTR was a little faster because it had more technology put into it just to make the big luxury car compete well.

the R32 GTR didnt have exactly more technology...just had the ATTESA AWD system which helped it track a little better than the Z32TT. people forget that the Z32TT and R32-GTR have most of the same control systems and suspension set-up. this is why i find it funny that people talk about the GTR like it is the greatest car ever and then downplay the Z32...slap an AWD system on a 300zxTT and you got yourself a rather good looking GTR.


http://img173.echo.cx/img173/7356/sawindash0dd6jt.jpg


Even though I could still top that one out too. :cool:

and if you could, find 2...:D

LUXURY CAR? are you kidding me?

Um...yes. I don't know where you got the impression that the Skyline series is Nissan's ultimate racing series, but that's wrong; only the red GT-R badge signifies Nissan's designated racing marquee. The non-GTR Skylines are designed, tuned, and marketed to be luxury cars, with a hint of sportiness. Without all of the superb racing technology that goes into the GT-R, the Skyline is just a big sedan or coupe with rear-wheel-drive and above-average horsepower. The Fairlady Z, on the other hand, has always been Nissan's flagship sports car, and the fact that the Skyline GT-R is a better performer than Fairlady Z, doesn't necessarily make it a better sports car. Sports cars are about more than raw performance; they're about the feel, the image, the intangible aspects of driving. In my opinion, the Fairlady Z's shape, styling cues, choice of motor, and handling characteristics, should make it a more enjoyable car to drive than the Skyline GT-R, even though it's not quite as fast. I've never driven either, but I'm just venturing a guess based on what I do know about them.

It's actually kind of funny that there is so much argument between the two cars because they were both sourced from the same prototype, the MID-4.

It utilized the same AWD system later found in the GT-Rs as well as the HICAS system found in both the Skylines and the Zs. It sported a 330hp VG30DETT set in a mid-engine configuration.

Naturally the Skyline and Z were developed as seperate entities with unique chassis and such, but they do share much of the same design in suspension, powertrain setup (less the AWD on the Z) as well as general design strategy. Nissan had dumped an ass load of money into the MID-4 for use as a test bed for systems that would define their cars in the 90s and made use of this technology in many of their cars.

Wow! This thread kind of took a direction all of its own, didn't it?

Not sure what to think about the Skyline vs. 300zx argument. I'd just have to drive each one and see which I like better. Doubt I'll ever get the chance to do that, though. Even if we had the Skyline here in the states, it would be a bit out his budget anyway.

As for the first car deal, I know in my own case, a 300zx would not have been an option at 16, regardless of whether it was an na or turbo. I have an na now, and insurance is still a beeotch. (I just turned 24.) If you can stretch to one, though, I think it is a pretty good all around performer. Lower mileage models dating from 93 and later still bring pretty strong prices, though. Furthermore, if I had my car when I was sixteen, I do think there is a very distinct possibility I would have piled it up in no time. (And I promise I'm not a horrible driver.)

If it was ME, I would consider some of the following personal favorites:

240sx (Great rwd car to learn on that you could keep and turn into a serious project car one day down the road, if you are so inclined.)

Prelude (Pretty good perfomance numbers with the fwd understeer dynamics safety net. My first car was an early 90's model, and I was very happy with it. The last generation car was probably one of the most neutral handling fwd cars ever produced. Despite rumors from the rice world, though, these cars are not autocross monsters. I've never really seen one spit out great numbers. They still do okay, though.)

Miata (Yes, this car was debated earlier, but it is still a good machine. And yes, this car CAN handle! Especially on a tight course. This car IS an autocross demon. I know someone mentioned earlier that there was no way a Miata can outhandle an SH Prelude, but you don't have to spend long on the grass roots level racing scene to see that the Miata performs on a higher level. I know "Car and Driver" voted the Prelude best handling car under 30k at one time, but theory and application just don't match up in this case. A well set up Miata can kill my NA Z on the autocross course. I only stand a chance if the course if bigger with alot of higher speed sweepers and acceleration spots.)

MR2 (A great car in NA or Turbo form. Insurance is VERY reasonable on the na, but a little stiff on the turbo. This is a car that can really bite you in the ass if it is not driven well, though.)

Civic SI (Really just alot like a lighter Prelude with a tad less motor to play with. It's getting hard to find one that the thuggy kids have not ruined, though.)

Porshe 944 (Alot like an na Z, but even more expensive to work on. You'd have to get a pretty old one to fit in your price range. Is ALOT fun to drive, though.)

Golf GTI (If you could afford to stretch just a little, you might find a 1.8turbo Gti. The stock suspension is kind of soft, but it is a nice all rounder, can be made (very) mean, and the motor is great.)

Just my thoughts...

Wahey, we're finally back on-topic! Good post, MclarenF1. Those are just about all of the cars I'd recommend. I can speak from personal experience, actually, because I'm looking at buying a car to replace my boring old Camry by the end of the summer. I'm 18, with just about three years of real driving experience, but I'm still a little scared of getting a 300ZX, even the N/A, and ditto for any Porsche. I don't want a Honda, because they are just way too common around here, but if you don't mind that, the '92-'95 Civic is an excellent choice. Ditto for the 240SX, I actually see way more of those than Hondas at the car meets I usually go to. But again, the '89-'94 240SX is a great car to learn on that fits right into your price range. Right now, my top three contenders are the '90-'97 Miata (1.6 or 1.8), '91-'95 MR2 (N/A only), and '93-'01 Impreza (if I can ever find one in decent shape, they are super-rare around here). But there are a lot of cars that could work for you.

Um...yes. I don't know where you got the impression that the Skyline series is Nissan's ultimate racing series, but that's wrong; only the red GT-R badge signifies Nissan's designated racing marquee. The non-GTR Skylines are designed, tuned, and marketed to be luxury cars, with a hint of sportiness. Without all of the superb racing technology that goes into the GT-R, the Skyline is just a big sedan or coupe with rear-wheel-drive and above-average horsepower. The Fairlady Z, on the other hand, has always been Nissan's flagship sports car, and the fact that the Skyline GT-R is a better performer than Fairlady Z, doesn't necessarily make it a better sports car. Sports cars are about more than raw performance; they're about the feel, the image, the intangible aspects of driving. In my opinion, the Fairlady Z's shape, styling cues, choice of motor, and handling characteristics, should make it a more enjoyable car to drive than the Skyline GT-R, even though it's not quite as fast. I've never driven either, but I'm just venturing a guess based on what I do know about them.
It's being kind to call a Skyline a luxury car, they're cramped as hell and not very comfortable, certainly not a sports car, either if it's not a GTR.

Yes the 300ZX handles better than the R32 Skyline GTS-t, it is far less tail happy, due to better weight distribution, it's also more aerodynamic. The Skyline handling got sorted by the time it got to the R34, too bad the R34 is just about the ugliest thing out.

BMWs are pretty cramped and tightly sprung as well, but they are still considered luxury cars...so I don't see what the difference is. The non-GTR Skylines use good quality interior materials, have complient yet communicative suspensions, and have a respectable amount of passenger and cargo space. They're certainly a lot more luxurious than any 300ZX.

They're certainly a lot more luxurious than any 300ZX.

My ride has power leather seats, power everything else, seude panels, computer controlled environmental system...I would have tried to argue that point but...meh...never been in a Skyline.

EDIT: Since I feel I must pay at least a little bit of attention to the topic, just out of 3 years of personal experience I can say the 240sx is probably one of the best starter cars on the market. Good inital power on the brakes, nimble if soft suspension, enough power under the hood to have some fun but not really enough to hurt you. Stylish to boot.

BMWs are pretty cramped and tightly sprung as well, but they are still considered luxury cars...so I don't see what the difference is. The non-GTR Skylines use good quality interior materials, have complient yet communicative suspensions, and have a respectable amount of passenger and cargo space. They're certainly a lot more luxurious than any 300ZX.

You have driven them right? The R34's are relatively spacious, Jonah Lomu certainly had little trouble getting into his GTR, but the 32's and 33's I could not drive comfortably, though I'm 6'5, so that was part of the problem. I've never met anyone over 5'9 who's been able to get comfortable in an R32 or R33 to the degree that I can in my 330, or even an E36 for that matter. Nor are the plastics in a Skyline very special, I've seen better interior quality in a much cheaper Honda Accord and as with most JDM cars, lacks a leather interior, the seats instead being made from tacky feeling cloth.

I still like to think of a 3 series as more of a sports sedan if it's a 6 cylinder and econobox if it's a 4 cylinder, the 5 series is a luxury car, as is the 7 series. The Skyline tried to take a swing at the 3 series by doing the same thing and ended up as neither sporty nor luxurious, the Toyota Altezza is sort of a demonstration of what the Skyline was trying to do. It took Nissan until the V35 to finally get everything so right.

I can't say that I've driven an R32, but it certainly doesn't look very small to me. I'll take your word for it, though.

looks can be decieving, the amount of space on offer is about the same as an S13 240SX.

I have no problem fitting into my friend's S13, but you're right, that's not luxury car spaciousness.

Since I feel I must pay at least a little bit of attention to the topic, just out of 3 years of personal experience I can say the 240sx is probably one of the best starter cars on the market. Good inital power on the brakes, nimble if soft suspension, enough power under the hood to have some fun but not really enough to hurt you. Stylish to boot.

:iagree:

not TOO much power so the insurance wont go through the roof :bigthumb:

oh yeah, the title of this thread was "suggestion for first car"...

so how did we get comparing GTR's to Z32TT's??? :lol:

anyways, for a first car a 240sx is a good choice...it can be beneficial to you learning how to drive a RWD car and how it reacts to different variables. and like broke as **** said, it has ok power but not big enough power to hurt you unless your blind and cant see a turn coming from 3 blocks ahead.

i find the early mid 90's preludes good first cars too...

']um i live in aust. and if you want a nissan GT, you buy a skyline which will outhandle a 300zx any day of the week. 300zx are very easy to get here and we dont understand why they are so hyped in america, they are not great cars in any particular area at all.... just because it cost more doesnt mean its better... and we dont have "240sx" we have silvia, 180sx, 200sx, the real models. and here is your weight differences, approx curb weights of all 3 cars.

miata - 2100lb (early) -> 2400lb (late)
240sx - 2500lb
300zx - 3300lb

1200lb difference between a early miata and a z32 TT 300zx. ha. a few hundred pounds my ass.

this is how the GT-R thing started.

aaaaanyway.
if i was going for a first car, i would go for something small and more or less hassle free. i would find it hard to say no to an Integra Type-R (assuming you can get them where you are).
other cars around the same price range would be a focus ST170 (you never got the Puma so this is the ford pick... although i think you have differently set-up versions of this car to us), Golf V5 (the Gti is probably the better car but i just prefer this engine), Alfa 147 or even the newer Civic Type-R.
if it has to be rear drive there's no reason not to look at a smaller engined 3 series (and seeing as you're in the U.S, the old left hand M3 is going to be no problem)
talking of older cars brings to mind the fiat coupe turbo which is a cracking drive that had me smilling all the way to the tyre shop....
if you're looking to an old miata/MX-5 then you shouldn't over look the newer MR-2/S. it's still going to be a bit pricey and a bit girly but it is a sharp handler (not to mention mid-engined) although it'll lack the outright pace of other cars mentioned.

Um...yes. I don't know where you got the impression that the Skyline series is Nissan's ultimate racing series, but that's wrong; only the red GT-R badge signifies Nissan's designated racing marquee. The non-GTR Skylines are designed, tuned, and marketed to be luxury cars, with a hint of sportiness. Without all of the superb racing technology that goes into the GT-R, the Skyline is just a big sedan or coupe with rear-wheel-drive and above-average horsepower. The Fairlady Z, on the other hand, has always been Nissan's flagship sports car, and the fact that the Skyline GT-R is a better performer than Fairlady Z, doesn't necessarily make it a better sports car. Sports cars are about more than raw performance; they're about the feel, the image, the intangible aspects of driving. In my opinion, the Fairlady Z's shape, styling cues, choice of motor, and handling characteristics, should make it a more enjoyable car to drive than the Skyline GT-R, even though it's not quite as fast. I've never driven either, but I'm just venturing a guess based on what I do know about them.

sorry need to hijack this thing once again.

skyline both GT-R and non has always been nissan's flagship sportcar.
Orginal Skyline GT-R in 1969 was created for one reason only. to kill all european from JGTC, which it did.

the S20 engine from the R380 race car was put into the GT-R long before it reach Z432 in 1973, and as far as i know (plz correct me if this info is wrong) Fairladyz never went racing in JGTC until Z33.

I know the orginal skyline (non GT-R) was ment to be lux car and it was in the 50's and 60, (nice interior with walnut steering wheel wow~)

I personally don't think skyline is lux car, for me lux small car in the 90's don't exist. E30, E190 and AE92 has around the same comfort.

and as Skyline not being as lux as E30...plz don't tell me u consider E30 to be a lux car.....it small very very small...(and we are comparing R32 and E30 rite?around same production years R32 from 1989~1993, and E30 sorry don't know when it start not expert but i know it end at around 92) even the E36 is till small especailly the back sit. and as for the lux item...i don't see no digtal air con...the interior have black plastic panel on black leagther seat (personal i am thinking that is probably PVC)

PS:240Z&300ZX are great car, i just have to do a bit of information correcting, since the other guy don't know what he is talking about for skyline

sorry need to hijack this thing once again.

skyline both GT-R and non has always been nissan's flagship sportcar.
Orginal Skyline GT-R in 1969 was created for one reason only. to kill all european from JGTC, which it did.

the S20 engine from the R380 race car was put into the GT-R long before it reach Z432 in 1973, and as far as i know (plz correct me if this info is wrong) Fairladyz never went racing in JGTC until Z33.

I know the orginal skyline (non GT-R) was ment to be lux car and it was in the 50's and 60, (nice interior with walnut steering wheel wow~)

I personally don't think skyline is lux car, for me lux small car in the 90's don't exist. E30, E190 and AE92 has around the same comfort.

and as Skyline not being as lux as E30...plz don't tell me u consider E30 to be a lux car.....it small very very small...(and we are comparing R32 and E30 rite?around same production years R32 from 1989~1993, and E30 sorry don't know when it start not expert but i know it end at around 92) even the E36 is till small especailly the back sit. and as for the lux item...i don't see no digtal air con...the interior have black plastic panel on black leagther seat (personal i am thinking that is probably PVC)

PS:240Z&300ZX are great car, i just have to do a bit of information correcting, since the other guy don't know what he is talking about for skyline

First of all, thanks for sharing your point of view without flaming.

Secondly, I can see where you would get the idea that the Skyline was designed to be Nissan's sports car, but I'm gonna have to disagree. What a sports car really is is much more than what it can do at the track. Though the GT-R is Nissan's flagship performance car, it's not Nissan's flagship sports car.

As for the BMW E30, I didn't mean that it was a luxury car in the sense that it was actually luxurious, but when people see the BMW badge, that's the impression that they get. "Prestigious" would have been a better word. And that's the case with the Skyline. It's always been a notch above Nissan's other non-sports car models in terms of engineering, so it has that image of prestige among Japanese car enthusiasts.

First of all, thanks for sharing your point of view without flaming.

Secondly, I can see where you would get the idea that the Skyline was designed to be Nissan's sports car, but I'm gonna have to disagree. What a sports car really is is much more than what it can do at the track. Though the GT-R is Nissan's flagship performance car, it's not Nissan's flagship sports car.

As for the BMW E30, I didn't mean that it was a luxury car in the sense that it was actually luxurious, but when people see the BMW badge, that's the impression that they get. "Prestigious" would have been a better word. And that's the case with the Skyline. It's always been a notch above Nissan's other non-sports car models in terms of engineering, so it has that image of prestige among Japanese car enthusiasts.

Thanks you for urs too :)

As for the E30 it just happen that i was quoting from you but that was actually trying to answer Jim's argument.

and as far as i know (plz correct me if this info is wrong) Fairladyz never went racing in JGTC until Z33.


i have read that this is the 300zx car that took the IMSA GTS championship but i think it is the same car that was entered into JGTC in 1994. im not positive though...i couldnt find any factual information.
http://www.johnnyoconnell.com/images/previous/300zx_04.jpg

The only valuable information i know and have read is that the 300zx competed in the LeMans races and did extremely well almost every year it was entered...even winning a couple times i believe.