What can GM do?

I heard all this talk of GM planning on shutting down Buick or Pontiac, they lost a billion dollars in sales, GM employee discount to try to have people buy their vehicles, and they plan on laying off a bunch of employees in the next few years. How did a company this big get in this much money troubles? What can they do? Who is outselling GM now?
I hope they dont can Pontiac? If they do the GTP is going in storage for a long time hopefully it will be worth some money when Im like 40

I heard all this talk of GM planning on shutting down Buick or Pontiac, they lost a billion dollars in sales, GM employee discount to try to have people buy their vehicles, and they plan on laying off a bunch of employees in the next few years. How did a company this big get in this much money troubles? What can they do? Who is outselling GM now?
I hope they dont can Pontiac? If they do the GTP is going in storage for a long time hopefully it will be worth some money when Im like 40


As a whole GM still sells the most domestic vehicles including SUVs and pick up trucks. However, the Japanese car makers are right on its tail. It has been predicted that Toyota will probably be the next GM within 5 years. US carmakers only have 56% market share domestically.

GMs problems are obvious. Poor quality and reliability, too high price for what you're getting, introducing new models that no one wants, discontinuing models that made money, putting too much emphasis on SUVs, and gross mis-management. :shakehead


http://www.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

There is also a lot of redundancy in the GM line. Heck, before the new GP's came out, you could basically get the same car in either a Pontiac, Buick or Chevy (for the most part).

I sense a brand consolidation coming soon. I have noticed that a lot of the Buick dealerships have picked up Pontiac and GMC (granted, they used to be Oldsmobile dealerships too).

Like with Oldsmobile, GM has had a lot of problems with Buick.

For a while, GM tried to revive the brand with no avail. I mean if you are 24, why buy a Buick Regal when you can get a Grand Prix instead?

There is also a lot of redundancy in the GM line. Heck, before the new GP's came out, you could basically get the same car in either a Pontiac, Buick or Chevy (for the most part).

I sense a brand consolidation coming soon. I have noticed that a lot of the Buick dealerships have picked up Pontiac (granted, they used to be Oldsmobile dealerships too).

Like Oldsmobile, GM has a lot of problems with Buick.

For a while, GM tried to revive the brand with no avail. I mean if you are 24, why buy a Buick Regal when you can get a Grand Prix instead?

I don't know of anyone under 40 y.o that ever bought a Buick brand new. :biggrin: And GM having a lot of problems with the new Buick model lineup is an understatement.


http://www.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

Free Trade hasn't help ether our market is unfairly flooded with foreign cars/products.
The Asian market only allowed only 3% of there national products to be imported.
Hows it possible that the north American market can compete with that?
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Free Trade hasn't help ether our market is unfairly flooded with foreign cars/products.
The Asian market only allowed only 3% of there national products to be imported.
Hows it possible that the north American market can compete with that?
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I agree that it is unfair but the seed was planted a long time ago. The Japanese and Koreans appear to be slicker than us when it comes to strategic marketing and vision. They opened plants in the US and worldwide. A lot of the models are made or at least assembled in North America. There are kids that believe that Honda is as American as apple pie as a result. Can't speak for Canada, though. For a lot of them a Honda, Toyota, Nissan/Datsun was the family car.

In the end its all about supply and demand. They are supplying, big time, because of the demand. We created our own monster.


http://www.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

Ya you make some good points there, and its exactly the same here north of the boarder we're all under the same free trade crap.
And your right they have created jobs as well theres a huge Honda plant just north of Toronto here.And now that I think about it they do use allot of parts manufactured in north America.I guess GM is just being to slow to change hopefully they can recover before the vultures move in and destroy what's left.
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The other problem is GM is carrying a huge load via health care/retirement costs to the tune of 43 billion (I believe that was the amount I read) going out to retirees. The funding for that is only half what it should be, kind of like that of United Air Lines. Plus you added in the drop off in sales of SUV's due to high gas prices and you have a company in financial deep doodoo.

I think GM just is seeing the worst of many horrors these big companies are running into.

Like the airlines, GM was carrying too much baggage in terms of inventory expecting a continuous high turnover. (only with the airlines, the baggage was airplanes since htey sell a service), Inventory is expensive and when you can't get rid of/use it, you have to lower the prices. That = lower profits.

Health/Pension benefits: GM like United treated many of its workers to a generous health/pension package. The problem with that is that you have a huge liability sitting on your books that you have to pay off. That looks bad and decreases your creidt rating. That makes bond issuance more expensive.

Many people blame the Japaneese corporations but its not like they snuck up yesterday. They are winning becuase a high quality product can be produced time after time. That coupled with a weak dollar is making some models cheaper. GM was simply not a slim enough corporation to adapt quick enough to the Japaneese. It's like Toyota is a car and GM is a tank.

didnt the korean and japanese govt, run some of these car companies more hands on than the american govt with the big 3 during the 80s?

I agree that it is unfair but the seed was planted a long time ago. The Japanese and Koreans appear to be slicker than us when it comes to strategic marketing and vision. They opened plants in the US and worldwide. A lot of the models are made or at least assembled in North America. There are kids that believe that Honda is as American as apple pie as a result. Can't speak for Canada, though. For a lot of them a Honda, Toyota, Nissan/Datsun was the family car.

In the end its all about supply and demand. They are supplying, big time, because of the demand. We created our own monster.


http://www.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials


I think the trouble started back in the late 50's earily 60's. The big three throw ugly junk cars at us, and we bought them. "Made in the USA" was all the WWII people thought about. They weren't buying anything from anyplace but "home".
Why put time into something that you do have to. If you don't need to put money out for designers and new body styles, don't.
It may come to the point if something doesn't happen soon, you'll all be driving rice burners. You notice I said YOU all will be. I will be driving a classic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/Jims2.jpg

I think the trouble started back in the late 50's earily 60's. The big three throw ugly junk cars at us, and we bought them. "Made in the USA" was all the WWII people thought about. They weren't buying anything from anyplace but "home".
Why put time into something that you do have to. If you don't need to put money out for designers and new body styles, don't.
It may come to the point if something doesn't happen soon, you'll all be driving rice burners. You notice I said YOU all will be. I will be driving a classic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/Jims2.jpg
so kid, you think motorized wheel chairs will be called "classics" by then.. interesting...

so kid, you think motorized wheel chairs will be called "classics" by then.. interesting...

With a flag, leather bags, crome tank and spiners, Hell yes. How much more class do you need?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/v4p3r6hae2m.jpg

I think the trouble started back in the late 50's earily 60's. The big three throw ugly junk cars at us, and we bought them. "Made in the USA" was all the WWII people thought about. They weren't buying anything from anyplace but "home".
Why put time into something that you do have to. If you don't need to put money out for designers and new body styles, don't.
It may come to the point if something doesn't happen soon, you'll all be driving rice burners. You notice I said YOU all will be. I will be driving a classic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/kustomkid54/Jims2.jpg

Yeah Jim, just think about it. The same people that built those ugly junk cars "Made in the USA" from the 1960 - 1980 era are the ones retiring and GM is trying to figure out how to pay them out of the so called 43 billion problem mentioned by others. Its ironic.

I looked down my street today and noticed that about every other house has a rice-burner car sitting in the driveway. Hell! even I've got a rice-burner motorcycle, :dunno: but thats a whole different issue.



http://www.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

Yeah Jim, just think about it. The same people that built those ugly junk cars "Made in the USA" from the 1960 - 1980 era are the ones retiring and GM is trying to figure out how to pay them out of the so called 43 billion problem mentioned by others. Its ironic.

I looked down my street today and noticed that about every other house has a rice-burner car sitting in the driveway. Hell! even I've got a rice-burner motorcycle, :dunno: but thats a whole different issue.



http://www.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

I don't even count bikes. But I will tell you this. Anyone driving a rice burner should be some place besides here. We have been looking at a lot of jobs moving out of the country. Soon, the only jobs will be over seas, or just south of you.

I don't even count bikes. But I will tell you this. Anyone driving a rice burner should be some place besides here. We have been looking at a lot of jobs moving out of the country. Soon, the only jobs will be over seas, or just south of you.

You use to be able to suport "Made in America" but its getting hard to find stuff.
I think even the flags are even made in Tiwan.
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I don't even count bikes. But I will tell you this. Anyone driving a rice burner should be some place besides here. We have been looking at a lot of jobs moving out of the country. Soon, the only jobs will be over seas, or just south of you.


Isn't that what H. Ross Perot was talking about in the early nineties in opposition to NAFTA?? Jobs moving out of the country and to Mexico has been occurring for the past 10 years. GM moved its Delphi/AC Delco manufacturing operations to south of the border years ago. Just about all wiring harnesses and other electronics for GM cars are "Hecho en Mexico" (Made in Mexico) and then trucked back to the US for distribution.

BTW - The Mexican workers get approximately $250 US dollars a month in those plants called "maquilas". And if that isn't good enough the US companies will move the plants from Mexico to Southeast Asia where the workers work for even less.

The US Government has got to get off its rear end and start penalizing the corporations.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

You have to look at cost of living for those areas though. $250/mo wouldn't last a US worker 2 weeks but our cost of living is higher. Plus, we are giving the poor people a wage. They would starve to death if it wern't for the US companies trying to make cheaper parts.

There is a whole issue of comparative advantage here. The US is far too educated and technologically advanced to be paying post college wages to Union Dominated trade workers with a HS education.

Most of this is my opinion and I am making absolutely no factual claims.

You have to look at cost of living for those areas though. $250/mo wouldn't last a US worker 2 weeks but our cost of living is higher. Plus, we are giving the poor people a wage. They would starve to death if it wern't for the US companies trying to make cheaper parts.

There is a whole issue of comparative advantage here. The US is far too educated and technologically advanced to be paying post college wages to Union Dominated trade workers with a HS education.

Most of this is my opinion and I am making absolutely no factual claims.

The last time I checked the cost of living in countries like Mexico are actually higher than in the U.S., especially on the border. Thats why they shop and eat over here. The U.S. businesses are thriving as a result. The $250/month is what a factory production/assembly line worker gets. The managers, administrators and engineers get a significantly higher wage. I know that for a fact because I work for a U.S. company with a twin plant operation. We have plants on this side and the other side of the border. A U.S. company must follow Mexican law and pay the workers benefits to include medical and 401K equivalent. They are much better off that we care to imagine and they are not poor. Multiple family members work in the same plants and they pool their resources together.

On the issue of cheaper parts. You get what you pay for. There is a high failure rate on the production line (QAQC) of parts made abroad and we are seeing that in the poor reliability and quality of our cars. Most of the blue collar workers do not have a high school education and yet the manufacturing process is hi-tech.

A lot of GM's overhead in the form of retirement benefits is going to not only blue collar but white collar workers who have a college education. The other problem we have is a person with a college education is very reluctant to work on an assembly line or as a blue collar worker. I do agree that GM overpays its employees and unions such as the AFL/CIO and UAW are part of the problem.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

Hey, at least you can take bribes to Mexican gov't officials as a tax deduction in the US.

I didn't know what the price index relative to the US was in Mexico and other countires. I was just asserting out of my a**.

Anyways, I think GM just has to slim down. However, in order to do that, GM has to pull another Michigan and just kill a significant number of local economies bu shutting down plants.

Operational efficency would be nice. But that would cut labor and UAW may noit like that too much, as that would lead to fewer dues to be political with.

doesnt gm like own a large portion of 'yota for american market??? just a hunch(like why the tacoma and all other trucks have all the same 4wd parts and stuff....just a hunch)

doesnt gm like own a large portion of 'yota for american market??? just a hunch(like why the tacoma and all other trucks have all the same 4wd parts and stuff....just a hunch)


Supposedly GM and Toyota have an alliance on hybrid technology, but here's an interesting article that covers much of the discussion in progress. And if you can believe it, Toyota was thinking about raising prices just to help GM out and prevent a U.S. backlash against Japanese cars.......lol. :lol2: :dunno:

http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0505/14/autos-181214.htm


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

I heard all this talk of GM planning on shutting down Buick or Pontiac, they lost a billion dollars in sales, GM employee discount to try to have people buy their vehicles, and they plan on laying off a bunch of employees in the next few years. How did a company this big get in this much money troubles? What can they do? Who is outselling GM now?
I hope they dont can Pontiac? If they do the GTP is going in storage for a long time hopefully it will be worth some money when Im like 40

GM is not going to dump Buick and Pontiac.

Sales of the new Pontiac G6, Buick LaCrosse, and the Chevrolet Cobalt were at their highest last month.

check here for the Cobalt

New Cobalt (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=406056)

GM has two new sports cars coming (Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice).

check here

New Saturn sports car (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=379645)

and here

New Pontiac (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=377526)

Cadillac's 2004 sales were their best since the early 1990s.

Chevrolet's new HHR looks a lot like the Chrysler PT Cruiser, but it will have a better chassis.

GM needs to use the 4.2 liter 275 hp I-6 in more trucks and SUVs.

check here

4.2 liter I-6 (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=413144)

The 2005 Saturn Aura concept shows what is to come.

New Saturn concept (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=419645)

Here's whats going to keep GM afloat. For a while it will not be domestic sales. But you've got to give the General credit when due and this strategy was fielded several years ago. Its just a matter of time.


http://autoblog.com/entry/1234000737046240/


For example: GM introduced the Alero as a Chevrolet product and it sold well in Europe until GM pulled the plug on production. Notice the Chevy Bowtie.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/chevy_alero2.jpg


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 ECU,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS,TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 spark plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

Here are a few GM articles that I found in Fortune which would be relevant to the discussion:

(note: I had to distill them into PDF to get around that pesky current subscriber requirement so you will need Adobe reader)

http://members.cox.net/jessepenny/gm1.pdf

http://members.cox.net/jessepenny/gm2.pdf

If you want to see an article trashing the new H3:

http://members.cox.net/jessepenny/h3trash.pdf

I heard all this talk of GM planning on shutting down Buick or Pontiac, they lost a billion dollars in sales, GM employee discount to try to have people buy their vehicles, and they plan on laying off a bunch of employees in the next few years. How did a company this big get in this much money troubles? What can they do? Who is outselling GM now?
I hope they dont can Pontiac? If they do the GTP is going in storage for a long time hopefully it will be worth some money when Im like 40

i found a brilliant solution, but you're prolly not gonna like it..seeing as the average age here is well.. you'll see





http://webserver.health.state.pa.us/health/lib/health/dnr-bn.jpg



:evillol: only kidding i promise

I wonder if they have that on any t-shirts there been a few weekends I could have used it.
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i found a brilliant solution, but you're prolly not gonna like it..seeing as the average age here is well.. you'll see





http://webserver.health.state.pa.us/health/lib/health/dnr-bn.jpg



:evillol: only kidding i promise


Do they have a toe tag?