cant get signals to work right
sunfiregirl_96
06-07-2005, 02:11 PM
Got a '98 Buic Regal LS, my left blinker keeps blinking real quick, I am assuming that a light is out... :confused: so ...I notice that my left side marker is out, I change the bulb...should work right? :grinno:
Nope...ended up changing all the bulbs on the left side, even checked to make sure that a piece of the brake light in the back window wasn't out and she still blinks real quick...no change at all....:screwy:
now i'm just stuck with a quick blinker :dunno: or is it a fuse or something i dont know about? :banghead:
Nope...ended up changing all the bulbs on the left side, even checked to make sure that a piece of the brake light in the back window wasn't out and she still blinks real quick...no change at all....:screwy:
now i'm just stuck with a quick blinker :dunno: or is it a fuse or something i dont know about? :banghead:
y2kpa2
06-07-2005, 08:36 PM
did you check the turn signal relay it is about 2" round and plugs into one of the fuse boxes not sure where on a 98 on my 88 it is under the pass dash, check with your owners manual it may be called flasher or blinker fuse or relay i can't find my book hope that helps
sunfiregirl_96
06-08-2005, 02:35 AM
I checked the fuse panel (on a '98 it is also one on the pass. side) but i haven't checked that one yet.
I dont have a manual, wish I did, I bought the car used and it didnt have one, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to see which one it is..
Thanks :biggrin:
I dont have a manual, wish I did, I bought the car used and it didnt have one, but I'm pretty sure I'll be able to see which one it is..
Thanks :biggrin:
Mr_D
07-09-2005, 02:29 PM
Buick Turn Signal Issue - detailed answer.
I had this same problem with my 1998 Regal LS and I repaired it myself.
Hopefully your issue is a problem with a bulb or a bulb socket, not the whole switch like mine was because the turn signal switch is rather difficult to replace. The official procedure to replace the switch involves pulling the steering wheel, airbag, etc which is quite involved but there is an easier way which I’ll get into later if needed. There are several pages of schematics involved in the lighting circuits so there is no simple way to explain how it all fits together.
Yes, it makes sense that the back blinks fast and the front doesn't blink at all. That's because the 12V signal to the front is missing (bad bulb, blinker switch, etc.) so the relay flashes fast because there isn’t enough load on it. The back blinks fast because it uses the same flasher relay. The signal gets to the back because it’s directly connected to the blinker switch output while the front goes through more circuitry such as the emergency flasher switch and the DRL (daylight running lamp) module.
I helped other people with this problem and wrote it all down for you. This list is quite extensive and should help your handyman figure this out. If it's just a bulb then you’re done!
Otherwise I suggest reading through this at least once before checking things. You will need a 12V test light, a DC multimeter and a person with good electronics knowledge.
The rapid blinking is a "feature" of the turn signal flasher relay intended to show that a bulb has failed (or is not connected due to some other problem such as a bad relay or blinker switch). It does this by sensing how much current is being drawn by the blinkers. It takes the full load of both blinker bulbs (front and rear) to make the relay blink at the correct rate. The signal to the front turn signal passes through the normally closed contacts of the 4 way (emergency) flasher switch so also check if your 4 way flashers work.
Since the small turn signal indicator lamp in the dash is connected to the output of the turn signal switch, this gives you a handy way to see if the signal is getting through the turn signal switch. If the indicator doesn’t light up then the turn signal switch is probably the cause. If it does light up then the signal is ok through the switch and at least as far as the DRL module input. The DRL module is located above and to the left of the brake pedal. It's mounted on a metal clip and just slides out. It has 2 connectors plugged into it. It controls the automatic headlights, the front blinkers and some other functions.
*One turn signal relay is used for both blinkers. So if it blinks ok on one side then the relay itself is fine.
*If either blinker works then your fuses are ok too because both sides use the same 10amp fuse.
Since my switch was bad I disabled the airbags, removed the steering wheel covers, and accessed the switch. I had to modify the covers slightly to get them off, (once assembled, this is not visible anyway) and now they come off easily, just like it should have been designed. Changing the switch takes 45 minutes after you’ve done it a few times. The first time took half a day to figure out and locate the exact tools required and to look up where to disable the airbags. I had the switch out 3 times over the last year cleaning the contacts trying to avoid paying $200 for a new one. I was not able to find one for less than that because this one has everything on it, headlights, cruise, blinkers, wipers, washers, etc. In the end it kept failing so I finally replaced it.
The turn signal lamps normally draws 5-6 amps while blinking, so if one bulb is burned out, the current (measured at the turn signal fuse) will be half that much. That would cause fast blinking. So, as a quick test you need to check the DC current. To do this pull the turn signal fuse out and insert the leads of a DC current meter in place of the fuse to measure the current while you turn on the blinker. There should be no current while the blinker is off and 6 amps each time the blinker goes on. If you see 2-3 amps on one side then you know why the relay is blinking fast (because the back lamp by itself is not enough load). Then you have to figure out why the front blinker isn’t getting 12volts across it that would generate the correct load. It’s either missing +12V or missing the ground.
The relay is cheap if you want to replace it just to be sure. I’m sure that’s not it but here is some info on it. It’s located behind the left side dash pull off panel (open the driver door to access), then the flasher can be seen behind where the fog light switch is located. Look for a small, square 1.25”x 2” box with 3 wires plugged into the end of it. It is clipped to a metal bracket and can be slid off by hand. Turn the blinkers on and feel with your hand to see which one is clicking. 12 volt circuits are ok to touch, NOT like the outlets in your house at 120V. While you can see the relay after removing the pull off panel you may not be able to access it because they only made a tiny access hole to work through. I made the hole larger with a jigsaw since it's not visible later anyway. The relay can also be accessed by removing the trim pieces under the dash. The purple wire on the flasher unit is the output. This serves as the input to the turn signal switch. Keep in mind it WILL flash at the wrong speed if the load on it isn’t right.
Continuing on……possible causes of your problem are as follows:
1. A burned out bulb. Hopefully!
2. Bad bulb socket, wiring, or a connector (it could be partially melted for example). There are directions for checking this farther below.
3. Faulty turn signal switch (this is what mine turned out to be).
4. Faulty turn signal flasher relay (this is probably ok if the right side blinks ok).
5. Malfunctioning DRL (daylight running lamp) module (white square 3"x2" box) located along the firewall, left side, about a foot up. This could make it flash fast, and the back bulbs would still light up. I replaced mine to no avail so I have a spare now.
6. Faulty emergency flasher switch. This switch IS attached to the turn signal switch.
7. Missing +12V DC or ground to the front turn lamp. They leave +12Volts on all the time for the running lamps and toggle the ground on/off when blinking. The back blinkers are the opposite; they leave em grounded and cycle +12V on/off to make it blink.
The fog lamps, license plate lamps, interior lamps, and headlamps are NOT involved in this circuit.
You could also try the following:
* Turn the hazard lights on/off 40 times to clean the contacts and see if the blinker gets better.
* Use a 12V test light and verify that +12 volts is getting to the left front turn lamp.
*Use a 12V test light in reverse (with the clamp on +12V) and use the pointy end to test if the lamp ground is good. Note that the ground will only be present “while” the blinker is blinking.
*If the bulb is good (both filaments), swap the entire left and right headlight assembly. This checks out the blinker bulbs and sockets all at once. See if the problem stays on the left side after switching the assembles. There's a plastic retainer clip that pulls out so you can remove the whole headlight assembly in 20 seconds. You would also need to unplug the lights.
*Try pushing on the turn signal level a bit as you try it and see if it works - you might find the problem.
*Try spraying some contact cleaner into the turn signal and hazard switches. This often works for electrical switches but in this case the switch is pretty tightly sealed.
*If the problem persists you may need to do some checking with an insulation piercing test light and find out where the signal is lost. You may want the schematics for that.
Be aware that the small load of 12V test lights can trigger a fast blink condition by itself when you are probing around. A high input impedance voltmeter may be of use here.
Remember that the front turn signal bulb also functions as running lights. So the blinker bulb will normally be on, check out the right side to compare. When it needs to blink the DRL module alternates the ground connection to the lamp on and off to make it blink. It would be confusing if a person didn't know that. The back lights are the opposite, the ground is always present and it cycles +12Volts on/off.
That's a ton of info but it’s certainly much better than having to figure that all out on our own. That’s the way it’s designed, really.
Good luck.
[U]
I had this same problem with my 1998 Regal LS and I repaired it myself.
Hopefully your issue is a problem with a bulb or a bulb socket, not the whole switch like mine was because the turn signal switch is rather difficult to replace. The official procedure to replace the switch involves pulling the steering wheel, airbag, etc which is quite involved but there is an easier way which I’ll get into later if needed. There are several pages of schematics involved in the lighting circuits so there is no simple way to explain how it all fits together.
Yes, it makes sense that the back blinks fast and the front doesn't blink at all. That's because the 12V signal to the front is missing (bad bulb, blinker switch, etc.) so the relay flashes fast because there isn’t enough load on it. The back blinks fast because it uses the same flasher relay. The signal gets to the back because it’s directly connected to the blinker switch output while the front goes through more circuitry such as the emergency flasher switch and the DRL (daylight running lamp) module.
I helped other people with this problem and wrote it all down for you. This list is quite extensive and should help your handyman figure this out. If it's just a bulb then you’re done!
Otherwise I suggest reading through this at least once before checking things. You will need a 12V test light, a DC multimeter and a person with good electronics knowledge.
The rapid blinking is a "feature" of the turn signal flasher relay intended to show that a bulb has failed (or is not connected due to some other problem such as a bad relay or blinker switch). It does this by sensing how much current is being drawn by the blinkers. It takes the full load of both blinker bulbs (front and rear) to make the relay blink at the correct rate. The signal to the front turn signal passes through the normally closed contacts of the 4 way (emergency) flasher switch so also check if your 4 way flashers work.
Since the small turn signal indicator lamp in the dash is connected to the output of the turn signal switch, this gives you a handy way to see if the signal is getting through the turn signal switch. If the indicator doesn’t light up then the turn signal switch is probably the cause. If it does light up then the signal is ok through the switch and at least as far as the DRL module input. The DRL module is located above and to the left of the brake pedal. It's mounted on a metal clip and just slides out. It has 2 connectors plugged into it. It controls the automatic headlights, the front blinkers and some other functions.
*One turn signal relay is used for both blinkers. So if it blinks ok on one side then the relay itself is fine.
*If either blinker works then your fuses are ok too because both sides use the same 10amp fuse.
Since my switch was bad I disabled the airbags, removed the steering wheel covers, and accessed the switch. I had to modify the covers slightly to get them off, (once assembled, this is not visible anyway) and now they come off easily, just like it should have been designed. Changing the switch takes 45 minutes after you’ve done it a few times. The first time took half a day to figure out and locate the exact tools required and to look up where to disable the airbags. I had the switch out 3 times over the last year cleaning the contacts trying to avoid paying $200 for a new one. I was not able to find one for less than that because this one has everything on it, headlights, cruise, blinkers, wipers, washers, etc. In the end it kept failing so I finally replaced it.
The turn signal lamps normally draws 5-6 amps while blinking, so if one bulb is burned out, the current (measured at the turn signal fuse) will be half that much. That would cause fast blinking. So, as a quick test you need to check the DC current. To do this pull the turn signal fuse out and insert the leads of a DC current meter in place of the fuse to measure the current while you turn on the blinker. There should be no current while the blinker is off and 6 amps each time the blinker goes on. If you see 2-3 amps on one side then you know why the relay is blinking fast (because the back lamp by itself is not enough load). Then you have to figure out why the front blinker isn’t getting 12volts across it that would generate the correct load. It’s either missing +12V or missing the ground.
The relay is cheap if you want to replace it just to be sure. I’m sure that’s not it but here is some info on it. It’s located behind the left side dash pull off panel (open the driver door to access), then the flasher can be seen behind where the fog light switch is located. Look for a small, square 1.25”x 2” box with 3 wires plugged into the end of it. It is clipped to a metal bracket and can be slid off by hand. Turn the blinkers on and feel with your hand to see which one is clicking. 12 volt circuits are ok to touch, NOT like the outlets in your house at 120V. While you can see the relay after removing the pull off panel you may not be able to access it because they only made a tiny access hole to work through. I made the hole larger with a jigsaw since it's not visible later anyway. The relay can also be accessed by removing the trim pieces under the dash. The purple wire on the flasher unit is the output. This serves as the input to the turn signal switch. Keep in mind it WILL flash at the wrong speed if the load on it isn’t right.
Continuing on……possible causes of your problem are as follows:
1. A burned out bulb. Hopefully!
2. Bad bulb socket, wiring, or a connector (it could be partially melted for example). There are directions for checking this farther below.
3. Faulty turn signal switch (this is what mine turned out to be).
4. Faulty turn signal flasher relay (this is probably ok if the right side blinks ok).
5. Malfunctioning DRL (daylight running lamp) module (white square 3"x2" box) located along the firewall, left side, about a foot up. This could make it flash fast, and the back bulbs would still light up. I replaced mine to no avail so I have a spare now.
6. Faulty emergency flasher switch. This switch IS attached to the turn signal switch.
7. Missing +12V DC or ground to the front turn lamp. They leave +12Volts on all the time for the running lamps and toggle the ground on/off when blinking. The back blinkers are the opposite; they leave em grounded and cycle +12V on/off to make it blink.
The fog lamps, license plate lamps, interior lamps, and headlamps are NOT involved in this circuit.
You could also try the following:
* Turn the hazard lights on/off 40 times to clean the contacts and see if the blinker gets better.
* Use a 12V test light and verify that +12 volts is getting to the left front turn lamp.
*Use a 12V test light in reverse (with the clamp on +12V) and use the pointy end to test if the lamp ground is good. Note that the ground will only be present “while” the blinker is blinking.
*If the bulb is good (both filaments), swap the entire left and right headlight assembly. This checks out the blinker bulbs and sockets all at once. See if the problem stays on the left side after switching the assembles. There's a plastic retainer clip that pulls out so you can remove the whole headlight assembly in 20 seconds. You would also need to unplug the lights.
*Try pushing on the turn signal level a bit as you try it and see if it works - you might find the problem.
*Try spraying some contact cleaner into the turn signal and hazard switches. This often works for electrical switches but in this case the switch is pretty tightly sealed.
*If the problem persists you may need to do some checking with an insulation piercing test light and find out where the signal is lost. You may want the schematics for that.
Be aware that the small load of 12V test lights can trigger a fast blink condition by itself when you are probing around. A high input impedance voltmeter may be of use here.
Remember that the front turn signal bulb also functions as running lights. So the blinker bulb will normally be on, check out the right side to compare. When it needs to blink the DRL module alternates the ground connection to the lamp on and off to make it blink. It would be confusing if a person didn't know that. The back lights are the opposite, the ground is always present and it cycles +12Volts on/off.
That's a ton of info but it’s certainly much better than having to figure that all out on our own. That’s the way it’s designed, really.
Good luck.
[U]
HotZ28
07-09-2005, 11:29 PM
:jump3:
:22yikes: WOW, that is the best description of how a turn signal works I have ever come across!!! I just thought that you pushed the lever and they worked!! Great job!
:bananasmi :
:22yikes: WOW, that is the best description of how a turn signal works I have ever come across!!! I just thought that you pushed the lever and they worked!! Great job!
:bananasmi :
Automotive Network, Inc., Copyright ©2026