witch amp is better????

Alright as some of you know i have 2 12' atlas's. and im still not sure on what amp i sould get. ive been looking at the hifonics bx1500d and the profile california Ap2000. Im going to have a professional install my system becuase i have no experence with it and i really dont want to mess something up.

The hifonics is a mono amp that brings in 500 watts at 4 ohms. so id need to wire the subs so id get a 3 ohm load to get my desired 300+watts per sub right? and its around $220

The profile is a 2 channel that is 320 watt RMS at 4 ohms. and its around $175.

Now my question is, what would be better to have the subs run at 3 ohms and wired in a series(with the hifonics)? or would it be better to have each sub hooked up to seperate channels on the amp that would be running at 4 ohms(with the profile)

i also think that im going to have them build a box for me because i have no idea of how to go about doing it or where to get the materials or build it. im gonna have them build me a single dual 12'' ported thats got 2.0 - 2.5 ft of airspace tuned to 30 hz. with enclosers both the subs hook up to one port outside of the box right? so if i went with the profile how would they hook up the subs to the 2 different channels if they only have one set of wires comming out of the box?

again im a total newbe to this and dont know hardly anything about it. any help is greatly appreacited.

The Atlas is either a 4ohm driver, 6ohm driver, or 3ohm driver...thing is dont worry about the 6ohm or 3 ohm...consider it a 4ohm SVC driver. you will want to wire tme either in parallel to yeild a 2ohm load or series to yeild an 8ohm load. or each with its onw amp to yeild 2 4ohm loads.
IMO wire them in parallel with the BX1500 to yeild around 700w or 350 to each driver RMS. and leave the 2nd 2ohm coil alone.

This is how you do it...... Wire the 2 ohm coils in series with each other. Wire the 4 ohm coils in parallel. Then wire those in parallel for a 3 ohms load. The reason you HAVE to wire it like this is so that the smaller 2 layer coil (the 2 ohm one) gets half the power of the larger 4 layer coil (4 ohm one). MAKE SURE OU INSTALLER KNOWS EXACTLY HOW TO DO THIS!!!!!!!!!! Or he will blow the sub There aren't other subs that are wired like the atlas. Make sure to that your installer does a good job like building a proper enclosure (2.5 cubes net a piece to desired tuning) and sets the gains properly. Look for an amp that does 800wrms at 3 ohms. I would get something rated for 1000 or greater at 2 ohms and does not loose a lot of power when running at 4 ohms. (ex. 1000 watts at 2 ohms, 750 watts at 4 ohms.)

Or you could get a 2 channel that does 600 at 2 ohms per side and 300 and 4 ohms per side.

[QUOTE=bumpinstang77]This is how you do it...... Wire the 2 ohm coils in series with each other. Wire the 4 ohm coils in parallel. Then wire those in parallel for a 3 ohms load. The reason you HAVE to wire it like this is so that the smaller 2 layer coil (the 2 ohm one) gets half the power of the larger 4 layer coil (4 ohm one).QUOTE]


ive have been told countless time but countless people not to touch the gold terminals witch is the 2 ohm terminals right?

should i tell them to wire it how he is telling me to do it or leave the gold terminals alone and wire it how everyone else is telling me to witch as the post above the one im quoteing says in parellel.

im getting the system wired by tweeter.

so many different opinions on what to do....
its all so confuseing

The reason most people don't wire the gold coils is because they're either running one sub or they use a variable qtc. If you do it the way I pointed out to you will have no problem.

Please learn how to spell WHICH

;)

nG

or you could wire the 4 and the 2 in parallel, however you wont end up with a 450w driver but stay a 300w driver, 150w to each coil. Same when making it a 6ohm driver in series, it will remain 300w total to the driver.
However, the atlas was designed to be a 4ohm SVC driver with varible qtc with the option for 3 and 6ohm operation if you have an amp with funk load ratings like JL's which areo nly stable to 1.5, 2 could be wiredto 3ohm then in parallel yeilding a 1.5ohm load, not that it matters because 2 could also be wired in paralel as SVC 4ohm to yeild a 2ohm load and you would get the exact same amount of power (*with a JL or other regulated amps, JL's are regulated from 1.5-4ohm so lowering impeadence from 2 ohm to 1.5ohm will do nothing as far as output is concerned, however you DONT want to go above 4ohm as you will loose power)

Like i said previously, wire the 2 4ohm coils in parallel yo yeild a 2ohm load UNLESS you end up with an UNGREGULATED amp that is only stable to 1.5ohm or w/e.

Fryman....there's something you don't understand. An amp doesn't see an overall load and the same power be distributed to all entities in that load. If you wire a 4 ohm coil and a 2 ohm coil in parallel you end up with 3 ohms and the amp puts out w/e it does at three ohms, BUT the poewr isn't the same between the two ohm and 4 ohm coil. The 2 ohm coil will get double the power as the 4 ohms coil, since there is only half the resistance to the flow of electricity. That is why, unless in low power situations, you can't use both coils when only running one driver. Now if you do like I said and wire the 2 ohms in series and the 4 ohms in parallel THEN parallel both loads OR run a 2 channel amp the power will be distributed correctly and the 2 ohm coils will get half the power of the 4 ohms coils, therefore properly poewring and driving the subwoofer.

YUP! It's physics...WOW Mike thought of PHYSICS!!!!!

noob...

NG

stfu NATE!!! LMAO

I thought you guys didn't believe in the those laws of physics :rofl:

[QUOTE=bumpinstang77]Wire the 2 ohm coils in series with each other. Wire the 4 ohm coils in parallel. Then wire those in parallel for a 3 ohms load. QUOTE]


ok just so i understand u completely and make sure that tweeter wires it up correctly. ok so what ur saing is that i wire the positive gold terminal on sub1 to the negitive gold terminal on sub2. and the negitive gold on sub1 to the positive on sub2. then from the positive on the amp i wire it to both positive silver terminals on both subs. and the negitive from the amp to the negitive silver on both subs.

i think im missing something here. can u please break it down for me like i just did so i make sure there wireing it up correctly and they understand what i mean?

Fryman....there's something you don't understand. An amp doesn't see an overall load and the same power be distributed to all entities in that load. If you wire a 4 ohm coil and a 2 ohm coil in parallel you end up with 3 ohms and the amp puts out w/e it does at three ohms, BUT the poewr isn't the same between the two ohm and 4 ohm coil. The 2 ohm coil will get double the power as the 4 ohms coil, since there is only half the resistance to the flow of electricity. That is why, unless in low power situations, you can't use both coils when only running one driver. Now if you do like I said and wire the 2 ohms in series and the 4 ohms in parallel THEN parallel both loads OR run a 2 channel amp the power will be distributed correctly and the 2 ohm coils will get half the power of the 4 ohms coils, therefore properly poewring and driving the subwoofer.

i understand it 100%... however, example, 1500w@1ohm, 750@2ohm, 325@4ohm... but he has the power handleing of 600w...it would be BETTER to run it at 2ohm, 750w, then 3ohm, 480w/e watts...
you get physics, now get math :smooch:
lol, im sure you get it, im just trying to get the most poerformance for him. since, most likely, he wont see much of any gains from running both coils as far as watt for watt goes and powerhandling remains the same, be cause you dont want to overpower the 2nd coil because its heat from blowing may unravel the larger coil.

now, like i said before, unless you get an amp that is funky and makes best power ar 1.5ohm nominal, just run the 2 4ohm coils in parallel for 2ohm :)

im going to go with wireing up just the 4 ohm coils.

so now my question is what amp should i get that will give each sub 300-400 watts? because if i go with the hifonics bx1500d it will give each of them 500 and i think thats to much. i want this system to last me awhile and dont want to damage anything by giveing it to much power for a long period of time. or do you think if i have my system professionaly installed (im going to do that anyway) will the subs be ok at 500 a piece and still last me a few years?
I have around $200 for the amp

thanks for all the input.

hmmm, BX1205D will give them 400-450 if wired to 2ohm but it will be a tad more than 200. 1500D doesnt do 1500w@1 or [email protected] is overrated. and from what ive been hearing has poor circutry that adds a lot of uneaded distortion when ran full tilt...but it is popular with ue and other audio enthusiast because it can put out a true 800-1000w decently clean and can be had brand new for less than $250 and on ebay for around $200....which is $0.20 per watt... where as other 1000w amps such as the JL 1000/1 run 700-1000 new which is $0.70-1.00 per watt.
the BX1205, 1605, and 2205 (or "super class D" brutus amps) are sapposed to do rated and be able to produce a decently clean signal full tilt or near full tilt (or at least better than the BX1500 and BX1000)

I looked at all of those hifonics amos and the bx1205d is the one within my ppower and money range.

I was also looking at a refurbrished viper D1200.1.

I dont know alot about buying refurbrished items but what exactly does that mean and is it still good to use? and will it will last me as long as it would if i would of brought it new?

And also between these two amps witch one would u recomend?

Thanks

refurbished usually means something broke and it was fixed, sometimes they go one forever, sometimes they brake a month down the road... if its a really good deal refurbished is a good way to go...

its about $230 plus shipping for the viper amp. and it has a 6 month warenty.

or i could go with the bx1205d and get a 3 year warrenty. thats around 2$240 plus shipping

which one whould u go with if u were in my shoes?
which one is the better deal?

I'd go with the Viper if it is indeed refurbished through DEI. 90% of the comebacks or warranty problems are due to idiot customers and there isn't anything wrong with the product. Anyway, DEI hand checks and repairs each and every warranty item.

For my car dealers, I sell nothing but refurbed Pioneer stereos. Reason is that they are cheap and fit the bill. I've yet to have one bad.

ive decided that im going to go with the viper. ive heard to many bad things about hifonics amps to take a chance.

now onto anouther question what qts setting should i use with my atlas's? i was thinking about jsut leaveing the gold terminals open by useing the high qts settings. what kind of difference in sound will it make between high vs low qts?

im haveing a box built thats 2.0^3 of airspace tuned to 30 hz.

-Kris

id like to know what bad things you've heard...

Well i havnt heard bad things about hifonics the company. but ive heard some things about how there amps are overrated and they dont put out as much as they say they do. in a previous thread u even said urself how they dont put out the RMS wattage.

im not tring to diss on hifonics or anything and maybe the stuff ive heard is bullS*** i dont know i dont know jack about car audioand go by what others tell me.

im not taking it as dissin, a lot of amps dont put out rated power... a handfull put out a good portion more right out of the box and even more with just a few modifications.
Hifonics dont do rated, but they do put out a poopy load of power for the price...
but w/e, in your case if that toerh amp is facotry refubished then id go for it because thoes usually ocme with a waranty even if it is only 90 days or w/e.

Ive decided to go with the viper d1200.1

Im gonna go ahead and order it today.

i just got 2 more questions. for my box would a ported 2.0^3 ft of airspace per sub tuned to 30 hz be good for my application?

And what qts setting would u recomend and what is the difference in how the different settings sound?

thanks again

-Kris

F**K!!!!

right when i was about to buy the viper amp someone else beat me to it.
so now im right back where i started looking for anouther amp that would do at least 700 watts RMS at 2 ohms. and is from a good company for less then $250.

Suggestions anyone???

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5779564835&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

$261, 1100w@2ohm


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4950&item=5779718603&rd=1

$242, 800w@2ohm

thanks for the reply CB.

im stuck between the phonix gold or the hifonics bx1205d. the hifonics amp u posted a picture of has way to much power for my application in my opinion.

if u wee me which one of these two would you pick?

and what exactly does the wired bass remote that comes with the hifonics bx1205d do?? (see link below)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=18797&item=5779187288&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

sort of like a 2ndary gain controll... a "volume" controll on the amp, for thoes who listen to more than rap who have subs that over power the rest of their system audio wise...with a turn of a knob they can turn their bass down to their likeings when not listening to a gener like rap or techno that sounds good with operpowering bass. it can also be used so you can set your gains for SPL and daily just have your amps turned down but for SPL burps turn them up.

But anyway, IMO i would go with the BX1605D if you can afford it, that one i posted also comes with a wireing kit i beleive and 11 bucks over 250 is cheaper than buying the wire and fuses seperate. however, if 250 is at the extrimidies of your budget the 1205D is a good option. better for have overhead than on the dot, but with the BX1205 you will have 200w overhead from 700w.

but FYI there are cheaper auctions there, though i didnt look at the shipping and handleing and insurance...that shit is always outragous...it does NOT cost $30 to ship an amp that size...i mean for gods sake my 18 was $27.02 Shipping and that is a 47lb woofer. but w/e the prices are great even with the shipping so i dont bitch too much.

But anyway, IMO i would go with the BX1605D if you can afford it, that one i posted also comes with a wireing kit i beleive and 11 bucks over 250 is cheaper than buying the wire and fuses seperate. however, if 250 is at the extrimidies of your budget the 1205D is a good option. better for have overhead than on the dot, but with the BX1205 you will have 200w overhead from 700w.

but FYI there are cheaper auctions there, though i didnt look at the shipping and handleing and insurance...that shit is always outragous...it does NOT cost $30 to ship an amp that size...i mean for gods sake my 18 was $27.02 Shipping and that is a 47lb woofer. but w/e the prices are great even with the shipping so i dont bitch too much.

If i was to go with the bx1605d and i wired it in parellel then owuldnt each sub be seeing 600 watts? or is there a way that i can set it so that each only sees like 350-400 watts each?? i really dont understand how to make it have "headroom". can you shead some light on this.

what ever amp i choise i would defently want to get a bass controller because i usually listen to rock but do listen to techno alot and rap on occasion and it would be awesome if i could turn up the bass when listen to rap or techno. do you think tweeter would know how to set my gains with a bass controler or would it be better if i set the gains myself?

shipping on ebay is complete bulls**t. the 2 12'' atlas only cost me like 20$ shipping and they want like 25-30 for an amp thats like half the weight. its much bull.

anyway any help on these topics would be awesome.

thanks again

-Kris

ok a gain is a devide used to match output voltage with input voltage to get the desired ammount of power. the most effective way to set a gian with materials that you can actually get is with a multimeter.
Head room is just room for improvement, just because your amp can make 1100w@2ohm doesnt mean it will or it has to. to properly set a gain on the BX1605D to have 1100w@2ohm you must first do some calculating.
go back to physics or electronics, Voltage= sqrt (Power*Resistance)

1100*2=2200
sqrt of 2200= 46.9v

this means, that t oset your gain you would turn your head unit up 3/4 of the way, have your gain turned all the way down (all the way to the left) and with the woofers disconected put the multimeter on the amp outs, play a 40-80Hz tone (the closer to 60Hz the better since that is the standard wall socet cycles per second) and you would turn the gain up untill the voltage read out was 46.9v.

Now you want 600w@2ohm.
600*2=1200
sqrt of 1200=34.6

however, this is where this headroom comes into play, there is a thing called impeadence rise, the 2ohm is nominal. the actual impeadance constanly varies, especially in ported where it is especially high right around tuning. but your coil only cares what wattage it is seeing and nothing else. so, to compensate for impeadence rise you would set the gain to say, 15-25% more than your desired wattage with your nominal impeadence.

so 800w@2ohm
sqrt of 1600=40
so you would turn your gain up untill the voltage reaches 40v.

because the amp will only be producing 600-800w Maximum RMS (music is constantly varying) it will run much cooler, will add less distortion, and will be more eficent than if it was having to produce its power to its full capasity.

the bass knob is an entirely seperate thing, you usualy set the gain either with out the knob pluged into the amp or with the knob pluged in and turned all the way up.

F**K!!!!

right when i was about to buy the viper amp someone else beat me to it.
so now im right back where i started looking for anouther amp that would do at least 700 watts RMS at 2 ohms. and is from a good company for less then $250.

Suggestions anyone???
I just looked at the list of Directed closeouts and the only thing left under the amp section was an Orion 30 band Eq. They had a boat load of stuff last month. I could call my rep and see what's on the refurb list.

CB thanks alot of posting all of that it made alot of shit alot clearer.

i just have a few questions.

Where would i go to get a multimeter? im asumeing radio shack or best buy or seomthing? and any brands to look for?

and where do i get a cd that will play a 60hz tone? or a 40hz -80 hz tone like u said. best buy or radio shack again??

and im having my system installed by tweeter. should i tell them that this is how i want my gain set or after they install it should i go ahead and reset the gain myself?

and which would u recomend i do with the bass knob disconnect it or have it turned all the way up? or is there a difference in which one i do?

thanks

-Kris

i just checked ebay gaain and they have more viper d1200.1 amps. so i think im going to go with the viper insted of the hifonics.

the viper is 700 watts at 2 ohms. so what would be the sqrt of 1400? im asumeing its around 37?

and if you also answer my other questions in my previous post about setting the gain and where to get everything.

thanks again

-Kris

37.4v.

Multimeter doesnt have to be some bang up fancy meter, Radio Shack, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes should all have a cheaper multimeter. and it doesnt have to be exact either, just good ehough to get a general idea.
as for test tones, http://www.ronelmm.com/tones/
downlaod and burn them to disc, these are good for setting gains because they are 0dB where other tones are sometimes -3dB and when you set the gain for the wattage with -3dB you may end up driving your amp into clipping with 0dB music.

If you dont have a CD burner then you can buy a test CD for HT. there are a bunch out there for $10-$25 and besides tones also include other tracks such as white noise, brown noise, pink noise, sweeps, etc...
or there are some for Cars as well, however, make sure the tones are, in fact, 0dB. it hsould say somewhere on the case or if buying online ferify that it is before buying it.
Best Buy, Circut City, even your local audio shop may have such CD's.

as for the help, no problem, that is what most of us are here for.

PS
You'll be happy with that viper amp. im still searching for a cheaper option to the BX1205D with as much overhead as it has for mt Ava18 but i havent found one so it looks like im going ot be ordering one tomarow. Aparently AA has the dust caps and shipment is pending instalation of htem...i cant wait :D

yea im ordering the viper tonight as soon as my mom wakes up (shes got the paypal account) i cant wait till i finally after like a month and a half of waiting get to hear my atlas's.

Your putting an 18 ava in that trunk?? thats gonna be crazy. how the hell are you fitting it in there?

im gonna go out tomorrow some time and look for the miltimeter and see if i can find a cd with test tones on it. cuz the computer that has the cd burner on it is a piece of shit and wont burn anymore.

what the hell are brown noise, pink noise, white noise, sweeps????

and im asumeing that i should indead set the gain myself after i get tweeter to install it for me?

and would u recomend me have the bass remote unplugged or all the way up when i do the gains? or does it not make a difference?


-Kris

it dependso n the amp, i dont have experence with the Viper nor the BX1205D so i dont know, however there hsould be a manual and if there isnt just google it or something or call the company.

as for whire noise, brown noise, sweeps...
White noise as a signal with all 19,980 frequincies playing at the same time (lower and higher as well but you only care about 20-20,000) it is sort of like the noise that a TV makes when it has no signal and all you are seaing is "snow".
Pink and brown noise are just certian notes in certian octaves, brown being lower and pink being higher...i used to know the octaves but im tired and memory is off at the moment.
a sine sweep is when a signal starts out at one frequincies and plays every single frequicy all the way untill the end frequincy of the track.
example: a 20-80Hz sign sweep would start a 20Hz and then gradually get higher and higher untill it got to 80Hz
there are also other tracks like rumbles and punches.
a rumble is 3 or more frequncies being played at varying amplitudes in a pattern and a punch is 2 or mroe frequincies playing in short bursts togather to make one harmonic sound.

edit: pink and brown noises sound similar to white noise

get the mono, no questions about it, now as for the ohms. That all depends on the subs, and the amp. Both have to be stable at the correct ohms. My shop does not sell thoes models so im not familar with them, but the people your having install it should know, I suggest talking with them.

was there a 2chanel amp even mentioned?

oh and thanks for stating the obvious about the resistance of the coils :slaps self:

Edit:
Impeadence, sorry :banghead: