Question on downpipe

What up yall! I plan on buying an apexi n1 cat-back and I was also thinking about getting the apexi downpipe also, but it eliminates the cat. I live in california and I have to have the cat so I can pass emissions. So what downpipe could I get with the apexi cat-back that doesn't eliminate the cat? Any suggestions would be helpful.

Get a Megan dp off ebay for $120 shipped. It's solid polished ss. You can cut the end off and weld a flange on which would probably be another $15-$20.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7976175301&category=33630

If you want to spend a little more, RRE makes really nice ones for $230
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclexhaust.htm

Wont both Dp you suggested mess with the o2 sensor causing the check engine light to come on?

Get the downpipe and put your stock exhaust on for the tests every few years. Cats suck.

Wont both Dp you suggested mess with the o2 sensor causing the check engine light to come on?

Why would it do that? The 1st o2 sensor is before the dp and the second is in the cat or after it. And how are the dp's I suggested any different than other ones so they woud do what you said?

Off topic!!

Nayr747...Tell me about the great canadian seal hunt petition link you have in your signature. Is it a joke?

Why would it do that? The 1st o2 sensor is before the dp and the second is in the cat or after it. And how are the dp's I suggested any different than other ones so they woud do what you said?

i just thought if you fuck with the DPs mess with the o2 sensors for some reason and your check ingine light comes on. But you have a point there is no o2 sensors on the Dp from the last time i looked when i installed my exhaust...so i dont know....its just something i hear before

"Long" DPs eliminate the cat, that'll screw with emissions. "Short" DPs, which are less common, allow for the addition of a cat or test pipe. Since they are more versitile, particularly for states like CA, I think they are the better way to go. With a short pipe and a cat, you'll pass emissions. Needless to say, without a cat, you won't pass.

Response to the OT: As for baby seals, we did a case study on this. Don't worry, I hate my college, too. In Canada, it's more cost effective to kill the seals manually than through bullet shots. Unfortunately, it's not very sensitive to animals. Notewothy, this became a big deal because it was taped and shown to audiences, and is considered the first incidence of film being used in a natural resouces setting to effect change. Film has been an effective means since then, obviously. It started with Edison, the lightbulb guy, but here singlehandedly brought an issue to the populace with baby seals. This is, ironically, closely historically tied with the first filming of an abortion, still available online to be seen. Both are nasty shit, fyi. Next topic...

Edit>> Still OT but kinda funny: the big organization against the killing of baby seals is the ifaw, found here: http://www.ifaw.org/ifaw/general/default.aspx?oid=21446. They link to a video of beating the hell out of seals here (not for the faint of heart): https://www.kintera.org/site/apps/kb/home/login.asp?c=dhKPI1PFIqE&b=437927&kntaw7288=0CF9030D18834839A17CB91B7B605540. It requires a login, my apologies. In class we had to watch this, and the chicks cried :eek:

Thanks guys. Could I just get the cat-back and leave everything else as is and gain power? Or would I have to get the short downpipe and high flow cat also?

The catback won't easily bolt up to the stock cat. Your stock exhaust components aren't the same size as the stuff you're upgrading to, that's the whole idea of upgrading ;)

Options:

Buy a catback and an adapter
Buy an n1 catback, since they come with provision to mount like stock
Buy a catback and long DP
Buy a catback and short DP with cat
Buy a catback and short DP with test pipe

Suggestion:

Buy a catback with a short DP and cat. When emissions are over, you can swap back to a test pipe, if you want.

You can cut the end off and weld a flange on which would probably be another $15-$20.

Why did no one read this? This was supposed to mean turn it into a "short" dp. That's what I'm doing.

Off topic!!

Nayr747...Tell me about the great canadian seal hunt petition link you have in your signature. Is it a joke?

No it absolutely isn't a joke. The seals are being killed for their furs and also to a VERY small extent meat. 90% of them are less than 3 months old and they are very often skinned alive. I hope you guys think this is as horribly wrong as I do. I mean how the fuck could you skin this alive.
http://dingo.care-mail.com/c2p/ifaw/harp_seal_small3.jpg

If these people can look themselves in the mirror in the morning then good for them. But I bet sooner or later they'll realize what horrible things they have done. If there is a hell these are the people that are going there. Not trying to be a downer but this shit really pisses me off.

Why did no one read this? This was supposed to mean turn it into a "short" dp. That's what I'm doing.



No it absolutely isn't a joke. The seals are being killed for their furs and also to a VERY small extent meat. 90% of them are less than 3 months old and they are very often skinned alive. I hope you guys think this is as horribly wrong as I do. I mean how the fuck could you skin this alive.
http://dingo.care-mail.com/c2p/ifaw/harp_seal_small3.jpg

If these people can look themselves in the mirror in the morning then good for them. But I bet sooner or later they'll realize what horrible things they have done. If there is a hell these are the people that are going there. Not trying to be a downer but this shit really pisses me off.

Can you even do that to the DP on ebay? I mean will that affect emissions testing right there because where im at the bastards look under the hood as well and they might be like why is that Dp welded or some shit. Also is there another solution to RRE's short dp. I cant find any other short dp for a cat anywhere i might have to do what Nayr said.

Also, with the seals...yea its fucked up cost efficient or not. This is why i fucking hate Jlow's bitch ass (wearing fur whore) and KFC's stupid ass (raising chickens with unnatural growth). Dude the world is just really careless toward animals.

Dude the world is just really careless toward animals.

I know what you're saying man. To me, animals are in the same position now as black people were 150 yrs ago. People will eventually wake up and realize what they're doing. You dont want to know the shit they do to the chickens, pigs, cows etc before they're turned into meat or whatever. The pain that they suffer is just sad. Btw, the reason you can get Mad Cow from ground beef is because there is brain tissue in it. Makes you look at beef in whole new way. :(

For the DP, I dont know why emissions would have a problem. I am talking about turning the Megan into a "short" pipe, exactly the same as the other short ones. Just measure how long it needs to be to bolt up to the cat and cut it and weld a flang on the end of the DP. You would have a nice "short" pipe for around $135. The Megan pipe also is 3" piping the whole way except for a slight neck down to match the o2 sensor opening. The others are usually only 3" after the flex section. May not make any more power but who knows. Couldn't hurt.

Nayr's idea will work, just make sure you measure right :biggrin: It's the cost of the cheap DP and an appropriate flange. You'll need to know how to cut and weld. It's still a cheap solution. I can forsee two problems. First, cheap flex sections wear out of time. I doubt a cheap DP has a good flex section. Second, not all DPs travel the same length. Get your catback and cat first (I'm assuming you're using a cat, why do all this for a test pipe), then measure the remaining distance to the o2 housing to cut at the appropriate point. If you're going hardcore on the DP like this, might as well go hardcore on the cat, and save money there, too. That means getting an E-Bay Magnaflow and welding a couple flanges on, again, to the appropriate length. The "custom" system I have (that works) is an RRE DP, an RRE cat, and an n1 exhaust. I know the cat is exactly 20" long, within an eighth of an inch. That should help piece together the puzzle if you want to copy an RRE setup. I imagine you'll save about 120-150 doing all this. Obviously, even more money could be saved by making the catback yourself, too. Go for it.

GUYS!!!

I am from Canada

AND THE GREAT CANADIAN SEAL HUNT DOES NOT EXIST!!!

Trust me!! This is one of those things that gets tossed around so that people can point at how dumb they think Americans are. For real, this is a totaly lie. IT DOES NOT HAPPEN!! Complete proof that many Americans know very little about the world outside of their own country.

Dont get me wrong, I think Americans are great where as many Canadians do not. But I will have to admit that many are uneducated about the rest of the world, Canada in particular with it being so close.

OT: DPs and seals, they go hand in hand. How did this get started? Does someone want to use their downpipe to beat seals?

There is a government subsidized, annual practice of clubbing baby seals. I listed a link earlier on this page to the ifaw. They're killed in Canda, Norway, and other norther countries. Obviously the species vary. There's a meat market, pelt market, and penis market. In China, seal junk is an aphrodisiac. After the fishery collapse in Eastern Canada in the early nineties, the number of sealers has increased. This industry is government subsidized, as the fisheries are and were. If you want links to journals or for pictures as proof, let me know. This isn't a new thing, it's been happening for a long time.

NYTimes article about the "booming industry," http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/05/international/americas/05SEAL.html?ex=1396497600&en=52563d7cc9b2f1d2&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

I'm not placing blame on Canada, people all over the world whap the hell out of baby seals like playthings. The interesting case study would be to see how many of these guys beat their wives. Does killing baby seals "get it out of your system," or give you a taste for more?

Anyway. Unemployment is high in the northern regions, where resources are the most abundant. There's always going to be a compromise between people's financial wellbeing and environmental preservation. It's too bad that this is unethical.

YOU PEOPLE ARE FREAKING RETARDED!!! I AM FROM CANADA! LIVE HERE! I LIVE IN THE HOME OF THE SEAL HUNT! I CAN TELL YOU FIRST HAND!!!!!!!!!!!!

It does not happen! Canada's unemployment rate is lower than the US! We don't need to club seals! Do you think we are that inhumane and that we are that different from the US?? Like, for real! You guys just blow my mind, you know nothing about Canada at all!!!!

The seal hunt does not happen in Canada AT ALL! Do not even try to fight with me about it, I live here. It is not government subsidized, it does not happen!!

Sure there is hunting of seals, but it is like poaching, it is not government subsidized or anything like that. People kill them but it is not government subsidized. There is not a great canadian seal hunt.

This in unrealistic that you are so oblivious to what goes on outside of the United States, it is a disgrace.

Damn man, I'm not trying to piss you off, I'm sorry if I am.

I live in the United States; I don't know everything that goes on here. I like to keep on top of things, but my residency here aside, there's plenty I don't know and won't pretend to know. I don't imagine it's much different for other countries.

And you're right, you don't need to club seals. People do it anyway. I listed a New York Times article. Here's a quote from it: "With one or two blows to the head, they crush the skulls, sometimes leaving the young animals in convulsions. The men drag the bodies to waiting fishing vessels or skin them on the spot, leaving a crisscross of bloody trails on the slowly melting ice." Are these outlaws? Here's another quote, "the federal government will allow the killing of up to 350,000 baby harp seals, or more than one in three of all those born, largely for their valuable fur." While I respect the fact that you live in Canada, your residency in itself doesn't nullify what goes on, or grant you omniscience.

I don't blame you if you don't like the NY Times, I don't either ;) Here's the BBC, they aren't American, found here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3618901.stm, with the following quote, "The government is allowing more than 300,000 seals to be killed, arguing that the campaign is both ecologically sound and economically justified." Maybe it is, there's a debate. Debating on whether or not it happens is pointless, though.

Want something more damning? Here's the Canadian homepage on the issue ;) http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/infocus/2005/20050316_e.htm, with the following quote, "The Canadian seal hunt is a sustainable, economically viable activity based on sound conservation principles. Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO), the federal department responsible for managing the seal hunt, introduced a three-year management plan in 2003. " Is it humane? The Canadian government thinks so. In fact, apparently, clubbing isn't so bad. Here's a quote, "The hunting methods presently used were studied by the Royal Commission on Seals and Sealing in Canada and they found that the clubbing of seals, when properly performed is at least as humane as, and often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public." They just said they club seals.

The fact that I'm an American doesn't mean I'm wrong :) I'll freely admit that you know more about some American stuff than I do. Here, it's just the case that baby seals really are clubbed. Is it right? Meh, I don't know. I think citizens have more love for charismatic megafauna than they do for other species suffering equal injustice. We call it the Bambi Syndrome. In many cases, killing cuddly animals isn't barbaric, it's necessary to keep a viable population. Clubbing them is kinda jacked, maybe even immoral. But who am I to say.

I can relist electronic journal articles from my college library on this subject if they're used solely for academic purposes. If you're interested, PM me.

PM me, I guess. None of this has much to do with downpipes, or DSMs. I'm not trying to be a dick, either. It doesn't matter which country you're from, the truth is the truth.

Edit>> Oh yeah, I forgot to contest that it is indeed subsidized. From the mouths of CTV on http://www.ctv.ca/generic/WebSpecials/seal_hunt/main_frameset.html, "More than $20 million in subsidies were provided to the sealing industry between 1995 and 2001, according to reports from the Canadian Institute for Business and the Environment."

well, it sucks but why because its cute should it get any special treatment? would you feel better if they had seal ranches and seal slaughter houses? unless you complaining are vegans you shouldnt say anything about one type of animal(unless its thrreaten/endangered) yes it may suck but tell that to the leopard and lion eating gazelles. its natural order, and until we can stop being so wasteful it will just be a bit of overkill. and no KFC DOES NOT RAISE UNATURAL CHICKENS, they purchase the chicken the same was as any other company,they still have bones and whatnot, the reason its KFC and not kentucky fried chicken now....its marketing. when ppl got stupid about eating things that make them fatasses(which instead of a jog around the park they decide to torture themselves over) they got rid of the FRIED in their name. and yes we americans are a bit oblivious to things in the world but so is everyone else...i dont see any royal canadian army(or anyone else) barging into east africa and stopping the genocide, let alone anywhere else.

Wow, good job GSXHooptie. That was very thorough.

often more humane than, the killing methods used in commercial slaughterhouses, which are accepted by the majority of the public."


Wow, this quote is stupid. For one, the public generally doesn't have any clue what goes on in slaugter houses. I would bet my car that if you did a poll and showed people videos of what happens before the meat gets to the grocery store, they would agree that it should be stopped. Seriously, whoever wrote that quote is an idiot.

And I'm not just getting on the seal thing cause their "cute." I became a vegetarian when I was six years old because I didn't want the Cheetah to go extinct (I know it doesn't make sense, I was six). 99% of the public is ignorant of where their meat comes from, what it has been injected with, how it was treated, and the medical information on how it will most likely kill them eventually-- 97% of all heart disease can be prevented by eating a vegetarian diet. The amount of meat that Americans eat WILL kill you. Almost every single reputable study ever produced has found a vegetarian diet to be the healthiest. That's just another argument though.

I'm not saying I'm perfect, my car has leather etc, but I do think there is a huge lack of caring in the world and whenever I can I try to help. I love animals and it makes me sad when they suffer so much just like it would make me sad to se humans go through the same thing.

Umm well let me say few things here....that have not been said of course. First, whether or not seals are cute or not, they should not be killed in any situation unless it has to do with food (this means even to control the population-because thats just outright bs).

Second, Nayr i dont agree with you about "The amount of meat that Americans eat WILL kill you. Almost every single reputable study ever produced has found a vegetarian diet to be the healthiest" -nayr. Im sorry to tell you but im a biologist (undergrad) and i have studied human evolution (3 courses). I can tell you first off that the meat and the amino acids in the meat are essentail in the evolution of the human brain. The protein is also essential in human health; what is not essential is the injected "poisons" in that meat. Im sorry buddy, whether you like it or not, the way of vegetarianism is just plain out wrong. It is natual for us to be carnivores (our order is in fact Carnivora) as well as herbivores. We just find the balance between the two.

Third, all of our information is based on facts here. If its in print by papers other than all over USA then i mean something has to be true. If not that just look at the videos man. Why would people make shit up like that.

Fourth, KFC may not necessarily raise fucked up chickens (dont know exactly) but they sure do condone it and of course buy them.

its called an omnivore

after reading through all this shit, i figure why not join in.

the seals are going to die eventually. the problem is how they are dying. clubbing them to death is uneccesary. there are dozens of ways to kill something, and beating the shit outa it is not an acceptable one. obviously it is happening, i dont care if you live in Canada or w/e, open you eyes and visit the links. pretty hard to make that shit up.

about the eating of meat. there is nothing wrong with eating meat. if you dont eat it, your a dumbass and your body will suffer unless you get the proteins and amino acids another way. agreed, the way the meat is manufactured and processed is pretty fucked up, but thats the way it is. that dosnt make it right or fair, but its the way it is. our society is advanced enough to know what is right and wrong, and what is acceptable and not. thats why there are goverment regulations on certain things. next time you bite into your celery stick, think about how much your body would love to be biting into a steak. your human. not a pussy koala. eat accordingly.

Hooray, a debate on nutrition- one of my favorite subjects.

I can tell you first off that the meat and the amino acids in the meat are essentail in the evolution of the human brain. The protein is also essential in human health;

There are 20 amino acids-- 9 are essential and the rest can be synthesized in the body. All essential amino acids can be found plentifully in many other sources other than meat. The amount of protein needed per day, 58 grams, is a very small amount. You can get it by drinking a couple glasses of milk and some beans. Americans, on average, eat a much larger amount of protein and that is why I said it would kill them.

Look, I don't want to start any bad feelings between you metalheadskater because you are my dsm brother :) but would you care to elaborate on this: "Im sorry buddy, whether you like it or not, the way of vegetarianism is just plain out wrong." I can back up what I'm saying about vegetarian diets. Name the number of government sponsored, or other, studies you want me to give you and Ill post them. This is not something I just decided to make up. Hell, go ask any reputable nutritionist what the healthiest diet is and the answer will most likely be "vegetarian." These studies aren't done by "hipies" or "tree huggers" or whatever, they are government run. Here are some of the institutions that have done studies and found a vegetarian diet to be the healthiest: The American Institute for Cancer Research, the World Cancer Research Fund, the American Cancer Society, the American Heart Association, and the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada.

Nutrition really isn't that complicated. The vegetarian diet isn't considered the healthiest for some complicated reason--It is high in natural vitamins and minerals from the large quantity of fruits and vegetables, complex carbohydrates with a low glycemic index, fiber, and LDL cholesterol lowering polyunsaturated fatty acids, and is low in saturated fat, and total lipid amount.

Anyway, it's a fact; it's not something I just thought I'd say. Go take a nutrition 101 class and you'll find out the same thing.

our society is advanced enough to know what is right and wrong, and what is acceptable and not. thats why there are goverment regulations on certain things.

That is hilarious. Was our society "advanced enough" to know that black people weren't 3/5 of a human? Or that maybe women should have been given the right to vote before 1920? Shouldn't we have known that verging on committing genocide so that we could complete our "manifest destiny" was wrong? My point is that at any one time we don't just "know" what is right. We are always learning and improving. Many of our actions will be looked upon by future generations as wrong just as we look at the slave trade of the 19th century. Didn't they realize the slave's suffering? Or was it because they justified it to themselves as we do today?

You can justify it and say that they are just stupid animals. Well human babies are equally intelligent. So are people that are mentally handicapped. My friend's son has down syndrome; is his life any less valuable than mine? Should I feel bad if he is tortured and eaten?

As for meat "manufacturing," go do a search and watch some videos. Not one or two, watch a good amount and see if you still feel the same way. I have seen pigs squeal and cry as they are being injected with hormones, then strung up and sliced down the middle as they still cry in pain, and slowly their cries go silent. I have talked to a worker who worked in a slaughterhouse who told me how the spike that is supposed to be driven into the cows heat frequently misses severely injuring it. I have seen chickens spend their entire existence in a 1ft square cage only to have their beaks burned off or be beaten, thrown against walls, stepped on and tortured. Ignorance is bliss is a very true statement and it's what keeps most people eating meat.

the seals are going to die eventually.

Btw, YOU are giong to die eventually. But that doesn't give my the right to kill you, no matter how I do it.

These are some of the best written responses (and they're from multiple people) that I've seen on AF *claps* It's cool, even if it's not DSM stuff.

I don't have much I can add. Nayr knows his nutrition shit, I'll say that much. He's not the majority, though. Many vegitarians understand that their different diet pattern means getting amino acids from other places, but don't know what foods to eat, or don't eat enough ot them. That's a classic argument against vegitarianism. The obvious flaw in the argument is that even poorly educated vegitarians eat better than their comperable Americans.

Evolution tells us people eat meat. Now some people don't. Social evolution tells us people wore loin cloths 6000 years ago. Now people wear Abercrombie. These are both examples in practice of evolution. I'm not sure if we should be so sure that diet, as we talk about it today, is anything other than a matter of choice and social evolution.

A well prepared vegitarian diet is more healthy than most, I think. I don't know if 58 grams is the FDA food pyramid number, but I'm going to guess it is. That's being changed, soon. While I'm not an Atkins fan (lol), I believe quality protein is a good thing. Particularly for people who are active and can make use of it. I don't think Americans get killed by eating too much protein, but by eating rich and processed foods. Saturated fats, simple sugars, heavy salts, hydrogenated BS. People agree that the above stuff should be low, but protein intake is contested territory. I'm a fan of the equal carbs and protein with low fat camp, flame me :)

My girlfriend grew up in the sticks, redneck style, eating mayonaise sandwitches and sugar water. Then we moved in together. She worked out when I did, ate what I cooked, and lost three pounds a week for a few months. Some people really eat toxic diets, and becomming healthier isn't a matter of finding the "best" diet. Whether it's vegitarian or 40-40-30 (or a vegitarian 40-40-30 ;)), you'll be better off. Also, we shouldn't forget in the argument of nutrition that an excercise regimin is huge.

The vegitarian thing is probably more ethical.

I don't know what else to say. Eat your vitamins, kiddies :tup:

Is it just me, or does damn near everyone on this forum go to college?

That is hilarious. Was our society "advanced enough" to know that black people weren't 3/5 of a human? Or that maybe women should have been given the right to vote before 1920? Shouldn't we have known that verging on committing genocide so that we could complete our "manifest destiny" was wrong?.

Way to bring up shit from like 80 years ago. Yeahs that really recent society. I was referring to our society today. Thus, this whole paragraph is garbage. Our society today is smart enough, for the most part, to know what is right and wrong. Those who commit acts like beating the shit outa animals know its wrong, but that dosn't always stop them from doing it. Just because they continue to do it dosn't mean that they don't know it's wrong. They are making a conscious choice to continue to do it. That is what's wrong with some people, and the rest of society is catching up with them. An example would be the Enron dumbshits. They knew it was wrong, but did they stop?

Btw, YOU are giong to die eventually. But that doesn't give my the right to kill you, no matter how I do it.

By the way, you took this completely out of context. I was agreeing with you, if you can't see that. There are less viscious ways to kill the seals than beating them to death with your fists or clubs or bats or w/e they use to beat them with, which is half of your arguement against killing them. My point was, if they are going to be killed, it can be done less ruthlessly and more painless. That dosn't mean I agree with killing them, I just disagree with how they are being killed.

Way to bring up shit from like 80 years ago. Yeahs that really recent society. I was referring to our society today. Thus, this whole paragraph is garbage.

Are you serious man? You really can't see the point? A person living in the 1800s would also think their society was advanced--they could look back to the 10th century and say "wow, they were barbaric compared to us." And just how people in the future will look back on the 21st century as "barbaric." It's a progression, that was my point. Proving it meant using stuff from the past obviously.

Good points GSX hooptie.

I believe quality protein is a good thing. Particularly for people who are active and can make use of it. I don't think Americans get killed by eating too much protein, but by eating rich and processed foods. Saturated fats, simple sugars, heavy salts, hydrogenated BS. People agree that the above stuff should be low, but protein intake is contested territory. I'm a fan of the equal carbs and protein with low fat camp, flame me

Oh I will :) You are totally entitled to your beleifs, and you're right on most of it, but you have to understand that most people just "think" that somethnig is good one way but don't really "know" that. There are experts who have studied this topic their entire lives and I won't question their conclusions. I can say that I feel that the FIPK is the best filter around. But experts using lab tests with flow numbers, particle filtration numbers, cost-benifit analysis, etc would *know* which is the best. The conclusion is that the amount of protein needed is not equal to the amount of carbs needed. Your diet should be consist mostly of complex carbohydrates, no matter if you're a bodybuilder or sedentary (this is another argument). The saturated fats you talk about are part of the meat. Unless you are eating skinless chicken breast, you are taking in a large amount of saturated fat. There was also a study done with milk. MD's decided to do a study on themselves wich found that the ones drinking milk, even skim milk, had a much greater chance of getting prostate cancer. Who knows if it's from the hormones injected into the cows or the increased saturated fat intake but nonetheless it caused them to have medical problems.


I don't know if 58 grams is the FDA food pyramid number, but I'm going to guess it is. That's being changed, soon.

Yes it is the RDA for males age 19 to 24, and if it's being changed, it will be lower or possibly incorporate active lifestyles that require more protein, having seperate numbers.

There are many nutrition misconceptions that I want to point out. One, that it's hard to find good quality protein and that the amount of protein needed per day is a large amount. Just eat stuff and you're really very likely to get all your protein. People usually think of bread as "carbs" but it also contains protein and some vitamins and minerals, etc. Some good sources of quality protein are whole grains, legumes, nuts, vegetables, eggs, and dairy. Americans think they should be eating meat at every meal to get their protein. The amount you need is a little larger than the diameter of the bottom of a soda can.

Second, that carbs are bad for you and make you fat. CARBS DO NOT MAKE YOU FAT. This misconception was encouraged mostly by Atkins, a *fad* diet that is incredibly unhealthy for you and like most other diets, fails over time. It only works because it puts your body in a shocked state called ketoacidosis, a toxic state. There is nothing that contains less calories than carbs and turning them into fat is difficult and requires energy. Fat on the other hand turns easily into body fat.

They are revising the food pyramid soon (finally) and the difference will be fruits and vegetables at the bottom and a separation of complex and simple carbohydrates since most people don’t know the difference (because of the stupid food pyramid). It might also follow Canada's food pyramid and put exercise and water on it.

You might wonder weather a vegetarian diet is healthier solely because of the diet of if it's because of the type of people that are vegetarians. Does a cheap car fail because it's cheap or because the type of people that buy them don't usually maintain them? Probably both.

People continue to eat large amounts of meat and dairy for the same reason many people still smoke (I am NOT comparing the health effects). Those industries are economically very important and are also very powerful. Just as cigarette lobbies controlled the flow of information and regulations, so to do the meat and dairy industries.

Just for the record, I agree with Nayr on more than 95% of this. The Atkins stuff, including ketoacidosis, is on point. And you're right, half and half on protein and carbs is a bit excessive. Regardless, while we can debate on proper percentages, I'll argue that eating less rather than more protein would be the more grave danger; people will always eat more carbs than protein, intended or not. I'll say eat half and half, and people will end up eating at least 70% carbs while believing they're doing otherwise. It seems to work that way, at least. If you go vegitarian, be sure to understand dietary needs, and how to meet them. There's a wealth of online info tailored toward vegetarians. If your goals are to keep healthy and lose weight, whether or not this involves being vegetarian, do cardio exercise a few times a week and keep track of calories. A good website for general calorie counting is here: http://www.calorielab.com/

Carbs can make you fat, but they don't. Eating too many calories and sitting on your ass does that ;) Eating complex carbs, protein, and working out only makes you a badass, and I think both Nayr and I will agree on that.

I just finished watching Happy Gilmore, eating my BBQ boneless, skinless, chicken breast. Aright, I also drank a beer, sue me. The chicken was raised humane though, bought at a local co-op. If I have any diet questions, I think I'll ask Nayr. Anyone reading this should probably reread the "cheap car" analogy.

I think Joe and Jake are probably pissed enough that this thread of baby seals and vegitarians has lasted as long as it has.

well that was fun

Yeah, this was all so off topic. Went from downpipes to a total nutrition debate. No hard fealings everyone.

hey Nayr when i have time i will PM you with some of my responses (havent had time cause of 12 hr shifts), but i just want you to know that i have no hard feelings and please dont take any offense to what i said about veggies. it was more general than a personal thing.

Anyway, on the topic.....gsx hooptie Why is the megan downpipe bad with the flex? What is the long term damages, etc?

downpipe? what downpipe...lol

downpipe? what downpipe...lol
:biggrin:

Yeah, the downpipe. The flex section is designed to absorb the engine vibrations. Otherwise, the exhaust would be under strain to move as the engine shifts slightly or when the car vibrates. In a way, it acts kind of like a dampener for the exhaust. Without a flex section, the welds on the exhaust could be short lived. And, if your motor mounts are bad, you'll be real bad off.

Some think that the flex section isn't needed, since there's enough movement in the rubber bushings on the exhaust hangers. Generally not a good idea, just a way to save money. I wouldn't do this.

A good flex section is strong. It doesn't move too much, and it's durable. I've heard RRE and Buschur have good flex sections. My RRE one is pretty tough stuff. Kevin sez: the flex section is the most expensive component of the exhaust, and where companies skimp when making their exhaust. It's where they save money, and why the DP is cheaper.

Anyway, I don't know what the flex section is on the Megan DP, but I'd ask. If it's crappy, it'll wear out, and the flex section itself could fall apart, or lose its dampening ability and put stress on exhaust welds. I'd talk with them. Good luck.

OT>> Where are you studying Bio?

Well......little off topic here so back to the downpipe

It was said earlier that it is easy to go catless then just put stock exhaust back on.

If you have any mechanical skills at all exhaust should be easy to do, eliminate the cat, get 15hp and two years from when you need to pass smog, just put stock exhaust back on in like an hour. That being said, the N1 is great exhaust.

:biggrin:



OT>> Where are you studying Bio?

Everywhere lol ive been to 3 different schools...but im staying at IU Bloomington for the second year.