Built up. ?'s

My friend and I are going to be building up his 92 Laser RS AWD. We both are new to "tuning" fuel and timing and such. His goal is mid-hihg 12's. On pump gas.

This is what are thinking for parts:
DSMlink-or pocket logger/SAFC
Walbro 255
AFPR
EVO 3 16g
SBR/maybe just a stock mainifold
FMIC
HKS SSQV
MAF-T
A/F gauge
Injectors are a question that have. I have herd that 550's are find but from what I was reading some people use 660's and I think i remember kevin using 950's or something like that.
I know I am missing something.

He already has an intake and a 2.5'' catless setup, boost gauge.

That should run 12's right? We both are new to the tuning aspects of these cars. Should we just drive right in or?

If we got the turbo first we should be able to run it like 12psi right?

save money. use the stock ported manifold. Save more money and use dsmlink if you have a laptop. Some guy was sell a dsmlink program with the cable for $10.00 on ebay. Don't forget your functional guages. Just my :2cent:

stock 2g ported manny and o2 housing. 3in megan downpipe to fit on the 2.5in catback. if you can afford dejontool, rre fmic kit they make it easyer then having to make pipes and weld a flange. if not you can get $399 searco fmic and buy mandrel bent pipes and cut to fit. make sure to get the right flange for your bov. you could save some cash and reuse the 1g bov. consider putting on new wires/plugs, adding a pvc breather so you dont durty up the new turbo/fmic. b-shaf elminator kit, fuel pump rewire kit, aeromotive afpr w/pressure gauge, and larger return line. did you mention a boost controller and turbo timmer?

86 the maf-t and a/f gauge. use that $ for a wideband if you can.

Dsmlink allows for upto 1600cc injectors. safc2 gets tricky to turn after 660's. if you can spend the $ on dsmlink its provides more room to grow.

I agree with scottsee, save the money from the Maf-t and a/f gauge for a WBo2. That will make tuning MUCH easier for you guys. The Plx-m500 can be wired in to log through dsmlink and only cost like ~$250.

Keep the stock exhaust manifold and just port it. If you have the money, go ahead and buy an evo3 o2 housing and port it as well. As for the FMIC setup, the streetimports intercoolers on Ebay are very nice for very the price and will be perfect for the evo3. You would have to make your own piping, but you'd have a FMIC setup w/ short-route piping for under $500. This is the route I will be taking very shortly.

I'd go with at least 750cc fuel injectors since you're running dsmlink. No reason to spend $300 on 660s when you can spend $20 more for 750s or 880s :)


Good luck with this and have fun! :biggrin:

how about you and your buddy try runnin 14s be4 you shoot for 12s :2cents:

He has a turboXS(something like that) MBC. He( i will just say I instead.) I want a maft so I can vent. The BOV beacause of the sound. How hard would it really be to "tune" with the wideband and dsmlink?

For an FMIC would this kit work if I welded a flang on it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7975078752&category=33742&sspagename=WDVW


Here's the list and aprox. prices.
Walbro 255 97
Rewire kit 25
AFPR 176
FMIC and pipes 500
BOV 230
750cc injectors 330
MAF-T 202
GM MAS 72
WBo2 350
SBR ACT 2100 package 430
Ported manifold 100
Evo3 16g 600
DSMlink 600
laptop 220
Eprom ECU Socketed 300
SS oil line 25
ARP head studs 100
Universal Laptop mount 50

Total 4407


Do I really need all of this? or is it overkill for just 340-350WHP? Skip all the dsmlink stuff and just get a safc and pockeloger(or wideband)? Beacause its like 1200bucks more the all the dsmlink shit. We have not really tuned before. But dont want to spend a shitload of money on dsmlink. Maybe just some 550's or 660's with a SAFC. If I had a wideband I would still need a Pocketlogger right?

The closest track is 4 hours away. With the intake exhaust(no cat) mbc(at 15PSI) I would think it would be at mid-low 14's. I would think.

$600 for dsmlink would include the socketing services. its actually $595+shipping. safc2's are $299 and pocket loggers are $199. you can do anything you want, but for somone who is new to tuning you would be much better off with dsmlink, between the fourms, easy to use controls & settings you should be able to move around fairly easy with littel diffucalty.

Not to mention that DSMlink is something that you will ALWAYS have with you, no matter how fast you get. Spending a lot of money on parts isnt a bad thing if you are not going to outgrow them at least. Not to mention that its hard to run 660s or higher without it, because AFC type devices will completely bollix your timing map. DSMlink is a cleaner and safer solution.

That being said, Go straight to 950 injectors with dSMlink. Dont upgrade 5 times like I Did. Do it once, do it right.

No need for the MAFt, the 2g MAF is the best option out there for up to 50 lbs/min, more than a EVO3 16g (or a 20g) can do. Its very reliable, very accurate, and produces a much cleaner signal than the MAFt. Now, over 50 lbs/min your option become very limited, and the MAFt makes a lot more sense. Take the 300 plus you save from this to buy the eprom ECU if you need one.

Its good to see a 255 and AFPr in there, most poeple cheap out and try to run a 190 or a 255 with no reg.

A 2100 is going to be begging for mercy if you plan to run 12s on pump. It will be tough to get enough mph on pump gas, so you will need to squeeze all of the ET out of the mph that you can. That means 1.8 second short times or better. I'm not sure if a 2100 is up to the task, but I have never run one either. I have one in the 91 and I plan to shoot for 11s again with my old 20g in there, so I may find out sooner than you. I'll try to post how the clutch did when I try this in a week or two.

Try to remember that I ran 12s on a 14b for 1800 bucks, so dont make things overly complicated. Using pump gas makes this a bigger challenge though, so lets look at some numbers in case you dont take our advice on the DSMlink purchase. Assuming pump gas with a speicifc gravity of .76, and a target AFR of 11:1, 550s will support 40 lbs/min airflow. Not quite enough for a evo16g. 660s will do 48 lbs, much better. A little head room. Even if you max out the turbo at 44 lbs, you will only be at 90% IDC. The problem in this case is going to be the 32% correction the AFC applies to the airflow signal. You will have to get over 3 grams/rev to stay over the 2.1 limit for being on the max airflow and timing load tables. Good luck with that! And being below 3 g/rev, timing will be too high, and airflow will be too lean. Trying to compensate for the leaner afr will result in even more timing. ETC. You can see how much tuning sucks with an AFC. With DSMlink, you just set global to 32% to compensate for the injectors, then set the WOT sliders for whatever AFR you want at WOT (9.5/desired afr - 1).

how about you and your buddy try runnin 14s be4 you shoot for 12s



This is a lot different than someone posting about a parts list to run 9s. 12s on a 16g is extremely attainable. Using pump makes it just enough of a challenge to make it worth my time to post about it. ;) I dont see anything wrong with this thread.

Please go with dsmlink. IMO, the price is actually a little low considering all of the things it can do, as well as the non-stop modification and customer support that the guys at dsmlink provide you. Also, like scottsee mentioned, the safc+pocketlogger/palm combo is not much cheaper than dsmlink when you really think about it. I got dsmlink right after intake/exhaust and I still found it to be the absolute best mod I have made to my car.

Also, why the ACT 2100? The 2600 is what you'll want/need, so go with that. I'm pretty sure the 2100 is a clutch more for the moderately modded FWD cars, not low 12 AWD car ;)

EDIT>>> Damnit Kevin you posted at the same time as me! :loser: :p

Thanks for the posts. I think we will go with DSMlink for sure. Sounds like AFC's suck compaired to dsmlink.Get him to buy it and bum it off him for some tuning. Eprom ecu's were only made in 95 right?

Does DSMlink allow you to vent? Also I can not seeing him getting a bigger turbo then a evo3 16g. So should I still go with uber 950's(or 1000's) injectors?

So DSMlink and a wideband?
The car is not going to be daily driven but it is going to be driven in the summer a lot. Thats the reason for pump gas.

ACT 2600 its looking like too(love playing with money thats not mine) The 14b in the car has a lot of shaftplay so I kinda want to get the evo turbo before the 14b totaly takes a shit. So could we get the turbo and just run like 12psi? This just seems like a lot of money compaired to what I have seen on other threads.

Is their any cons of cockpit mounting your MBC?

they are looking into incorperating a gm-maft into dsmlink, but at this time they dont offer such an option. they do have it on their list for future updates. so, the answer is no, you cant vent with dsmlink, yet! the wideband it a iceing on the cake with dsmlink, they have rewritten the values for aem eugo wideband so it will work correctly with dsmlink. im not sure if its been installed from dsmlink with their new version, but their is a software update for it. if you can afford it, buy it.

and yes, 95 ecu's are the only 2g ecu's with eprom's. some (very few) do not have the eprom ecu. there are i think 6 diffrent ecu's all with diffrent part #'s. i dont reamber them all. at the bottem of the MD tag they will have an E indicating its an eprom. there is also a compasitor mod for them you can do or have the dmslink guys do for you that i believe is included in the $595. they always test, and retest the ecu's to makes sure they are in working condition when it arives to your door.

you can find them on car-parts.com between 100-200. i think i payed 160 shipped from philly to spokane, wa.

Thanks for the posts. I think we will go with DSMlink for sure. Sounds like AFC's suck compaired to dsmlink.Get him to buy it and bum it off him for some tuning. Eprom ecu's were only made in 95 right?

Does DSMlink allow you to vent? Also I can not seeing him getting a bigger turbo then a evo3 16g. So should I still go with uber 950's(or 1000's) injectors?

So DSMlink and a wideband?
The car is not going to be daily driven but it is going to be driven in the summer a lot. Thats the reason for pump gas.

ACT 2600 its looking like too(love playing with money thats not mine) The 14b in the car has a lot of shaftplay so I kinda want to get the evo turbo before the 14b totaly takes a shit. So could we get the turbo and just run like 12psi? This just seems like a lot of money compaired to what I have seen on other threads.

Is their any cons of cockpit mounting your MBC?

read my sig. only those mods I was running about a 12.7. You do not need freaking 900+ injectors. Get DSMLink and a ported evo III big 16g. Port the dog balls out of a evo III mani, o2 housing and some of your intake mani. Besides the JE pistons I got copy/paste then go price hard core on the net.
95gsxracer's post is right on the money.. though I disagree with huge injectors... and yeah get the act 2600.

In total if you knock out the pistons and add a fmic I spent right around 4k. With a fmic and dsm link PROPERLY tuned on your car you will be looking at low 12's easy.

KevinE326, with all those mods you chose kyb's?

With DSMlink 950s will run like stock, and they are the same price as smaller injectors. So you'll have to come up with a very good reason to NOT get the big injectors. I always thought the smaller ones were big enough, until I maxed them out. I ran 450s, 550s, 660s, 720s, 850s, and 950s, and I maxed those out too. DSMlink now will compensate for 1600s, so rest assured that I have already sold the 950s to help pay for those ;)

With an AFC type setup you actually want the smallest injector you can safely run, so there will be a minimal effect on timing advance and AFR (load maps). But DSMlink does injector compensation the RIGHT way, so there are no draw backs to huge injectors. With the 1600s you may get some issues from having half the resolution at idle, but they are typically going on race cars that have no idle speed control anyway and idle at 1500 rpm. Thats why I recomend the 950s. They are big enough to cover the larger turbos most DSMers will run, like 60-1, GT14, SC61 or whatever the hell PTEs naming convention calls the 56 trim turbos, GT35r, etc. But up in the T67 area, they are inadequate. Very few DSMers are going larger than the 56 trim wheels anyway. 950s it is... :)

I dont think I would spend more than an hour on porting with a EVO16. Not enough airflow to require a lot of porting, and to back this theory up Josh W is running high 11s at 44 lbs/min on a completely unported setup. I would just round off some corners and do a little casting cleanup for sure.

What I like about a setup like this is with good tuning (DSMlink once again) 44 lbs/min fits in the limits of the stock MAS (2g only, DSMlink has built in MAF Compensation table presets for a 1g MAS in a 1g FYI), and doesnt even begin to challenge the strength of the stock motor.

Assuming pump gas with a speicifc gravity of .76, and a target AFR of 11:1, 550s will support 40 lbs/min airflow. Not quite enough for a evo16g. 660s will do 48 lbs, much better. A little head room.

The problem in this case is going to be the 32% correction the AFC applies to the airflow signal. You will have to get over 3 grams/rev to stay over the 2.1 limit for being on the max airflow and timing load tables. Good luck with that! And being below 3 g/rev, timing will be too high, and airflow will be too lean. Trying to compensate for the leaner afr will result in even more timing. ETC.


With this being said, what do you recommend for the EVO 16g, 550's or 660? Should you sacrifice the 4lbs/min for the better timing map or go with 660's and live with the timing problems. SBR will by dyno tuning my car and I really only plan on using pump gas.

For safety reasons I would go with the 660s. My theory is that you should size the fuel system for the max the turbo can do, not what you plan to run it at. This way, if boost gets away from you (could be something as simple as the wg vac line falling off), there is enough fuel available to save the motor. You can tune around the AFR issues with the AFC, but on a 2g you can't adjust for the bollixed timing like you can on a 1g.

DSMlink for sure. After talking to my friend this weekend I found out that I can get a 55gal drum of methonal for about $130. I was thinking of dumping about a gallon or 2 in each tank of gas. About how much would that raise my octane ratting. Also I ran into a thread on t00ners about water/methonal injection and I am just freaking falling in love with it. I want to run that. So the basic run down of tuning is boost and lean it out until it knocks or your fuel system can't keep up with it?

If I got hard IC pipes on the laser and got the water/methonal injection what kind of boost could I run in their?

I was talking to my friend and reading more about the evo(love the turbo) but I have seen a lot of people saying that they wanted more power. Looking around using ic that a bastered 20g would be more confortable(supports 400gp MachV) for the power range we want(370hp).

We are trying to stage things and go in a list of what to get first. If I went h2o injection. IC pipes, SBR ACT 2600 package(its already slipping) rewire pump, water injection, dsmlink, evo3, injectors(950's)/pump. That is what I am thinking for starters. But I dont know what to do. This will be over about a year thats why I put the IC pipes on their.(lots of body work fucking deer).