intake or nelson tune?

i am selling my escalade cluster and was thinking about getting i volant ram air or a nelson tune and i just wondering which one will give u more hp

I think the intake should be done first. At least that's my plan. How much are u selling the cluster for?

i was thinking like $250 cuz i saw some on ebay for like $270

well, you can definitely get an intake for that amount... I'd try to find one on ebay, too.

ya u think i could get that out of that cluster?

I wish I knew. I haven't priced them out. What did you pay for it?

i am selling my escalade cluster and was thinking about getting i volant ram air or a nelson tune and i just wondering which one will give u more hp
i would go with the nelson tune first

Well, if you get a Nelson tune first, then install an intake, you have to call nelson back, and get him to send you a new chip because you changed intakes and the first chip he sent you will no longer be at optimal settings. Granted, He lets you get a new chip once a year, but you gotta pay for shipping and change it out.

You can change your PCM (NOT CHIP) more than once a year, read his website. If you do the Nelson first atleast you have something going. If you wait for the intake you will then be further down the road to the tune. Your down time in the PCM swapout is minimal compared to waiting for the intake.

Just my 2 cents...

You can change your PCM (NOT CHIP) more than once a year, read his website. If you do the Nelson first atleast you have something going. If you wait for the intake you will then be further down the road to the tune. Your down time in the PCM swapout is minimal compared to waiting for the intake.

Just my 2 cents...

Well, listen to him. My truck ain't got sheee-at.

I agree with the Nelson first. You'll be happier with the performance gains you get with it over the intake...

Yep another here for the Nelson tune!! If you do any mods after that all you have to do is call him and he'll send you a new unit with the new program and you just pay for the shipping!!! But just to let you know, the intake program wont be much different alone... I wouldnt call back until you have the intake, exhaust, headers, and a 160*-180* thermostat. Then you'll notice a huge difference, oh when you call for the retune ask him to remove some more of the TM (torque management) that'll make the biggest difference in power!!!

Yep another here for the Nelson tune!! If you do any mods after that all you have to do is call him and he'll send you a new unit with the new program and you just pay for the shipping!!! But just to let you know, the intake program wont be much different alone... I wouldnt call back until you have the intake, exhaust, headers, and a 160*-180* thermostat. Then you'll notice a huge difference, oh when you call for the retune ask him to remove some more of the TM (torque management) that'll make the biggest difference in power!!!


What is the downside of removing more of the torque management (of course other than breaking the transmission)? If there wasn't a downside - why wouldn't Nelson and Westers do a 50% removal automotically?

White Lightening

how much did u pay for ur nelson tune?

Go to his web site http://www.nelsonperformance.com/ and you can see his pricing under the custom tune form on the tune page. If you set an appointment to visit him you will get a better tune, personally customized, and a better price for cash....

What is the downside of removing more of the torque management (of course other than breaking the transmission)? If there wasn't a downside - why wouldn't Nelson and Westers do a 50% removal automotically?

White Lightening

the downside of removing TM is that on smaller, weaker trannys, it will wreak havoc on the insides b/c of the added torque you put on it. the 4l60e used in 1500's does ok for removing some of it, and will work if you remove it all, but you have to drive right, no heavy romping on it all the time or you'll fry your tranny. Now if you have a 2500, or a 1500HD with a 4l80e, you can safely remove all of th TM and not have any problems.

In my opinion the only reason GM usus TM is b/c they didnt want o upgrade their crappy tranny's and needed something to cover their butts.

Should my tranny go out, would I be able to put a 4L80e in its place?

What is the downside of removing more of the torque management (of course other than breaking the transmission)? If there wasn't a downside - why wouldn't Nelson and Westers do a 50% removal automotically?

White Lightening

allen (nelson tune) will remove 60 percent of the torque management, if you want to remove 100 percent get a shift kit, the stock trans is set up for long, soft shifts, with no torque managment with stock trans it will create alot of heat when shifting, shortining the trans life.

Should my tranny go out, would I be able to put a 4L80e in its place?

they make conversion parts for the 2wd, they are still working on the 4wd setup due to transfercase

here is the link if you are interested

http://speed-eng.com/store/index.php?cPath=23_940_1409

Well, damn. The conversion parts cost almost as much as a tranny.

Well, damn. The conversion parts cost almost as much as a tranny.
ya but if you are hard on your truck or plan on putting out some seroius hp you can do the 80 swap or eat 60's

Rookie Question.

How do I know if I have a 4l60E or a 4l80E Transmission. I have the 2004 Silverado Performance Package.

White Lightening

Should my tranny go out, would I be able to put a 4L80e in its place?

Yes, you can. Allen Nelson has his own forum www.ls1truck.com (http://www.ls1truck.com) and many people over there are doing just that. You can also add a shift kit and servo's to make your 60e a stronger unit. As soon as I get my shift kit and servo in place I'm getting 100% TM removed.

Well, I'm sure the dealer could tell you

Rookie Question.

How do I know if I have a 4l60E or a 4l80E Transmission. I have the 2004 Silverado Performance Package.

White Lightening

A good rule of thumb is if you have a 6.0 or greater, then you have a 80e (or an allison, but you'd know that without a doubt). 4.3, 4.8, and 5.3's all use the 60.

With tranny' exact specifacations its hard to say, but this might help... 4.8/5.3/LS1 all use the 4l60e STOCK! LS6/6.0 use the 4l65e Stock, and the 6.0HD/8.1/Duramax use the 4l80e! And the 8.1/ Duramax use the Allison depending on if you requested it.

Yes you can fit the 4l80e in the truck and make it work. Depending on what you're long term goals are, it is hard to say exactly what we should recomend you do to your tranny. If you're looking to have about 600 crank hp which equals out to about 500rwhp, then a FULLY upgraded 4l60e will work. If you plan to break the 500rwhp mark then you can put my word on it that no matter what you do to the 4l60e, it will not hold the power!!! In that case jump straight to the 4l80e. Now I know what you're thinking...(If the 80e is much stronger then why not just go to it anyway?) Well the reason is because its robs a shit load of power from the motor... Where most people see about a 20% loss in power through the 60e. ALmost everyone sees about a 30-35% loss with the 80e. It takes alot of torque to get those monsters turning and its no fun when you dont have enough.

To white lightning: since nobody really answered your question correctly then I'll take a stab at it.
Let see... the question you asked was, "what are the downsides to removing TM BESIDES failure to the trans?" Well other than failure to the tranny there is none, unless you dont include your torque convertor as part of the tranny, but I do. Hope this helps with most the questions

To white lightning: since nobody really answered your question correctly then I'll take a stab at it.
Let see... the question you asked was, "what are the downsides to removing TM BESIDES failure to the trans?" Well other than failure to the tranny there is none, unless you dont include your torque convertor as part of the tranny, but I do. Hope this helps with most the questions

I misread his post :frown: sorry. Another downside is buying new tires often, if you're like me :D

With tranny' exact specifacations its hard to say, but this might help... 4.8/5.3/LS1 all use the 4l60e STOCK! LS6/6.0 use the 4l65e Stock, and the 6.0HD/8.1/Duramax use the 4l80e! And the 8.1/ Duramax use the Allison depending on if you requested it.

Yes you can fit the 4l80e in the truck and make it work. Depending on what you're long term goals are, it is hard to say exactly what we should recomend you do to your tranny. If you're looking to have about 600 crank hp which equals out to about 500rwhp, then a FULLY upgraded 4l60e will work. If you plan to break the 500rwhp mark then you can put my word on it that no matter what you do to the 4l60e, it will not hold the power!!! In that case jump straight to the 4l80e. Now I know what you're thinking...(If the 80e is much stronger then why not just go to it anyway?) Well the reason is because its robs a shit load of power from the motor... Where most people see about a 20% loss in power through the 60e. ALmost everyone sees about a 30-35% loss with the 80e. It takes alot of torque to get those monsters turning and its no fun when you dont have enough.

To white lightning: since nobody really answered your question correctly then I'll take a stab at it.
Let see... the question you asked was, "what are the downsides to removing TM BESIDES failure to the trans?" Well other than failure to the tranny there is none, unless you dont include your torque convertor as part of the tranny, but I do. Hope this helps with most the questions

By a "FULLY upgraded 4L60E" do you mean shift kit and servo, or what?

By a "FULLY upgraded 4L60E" do you mean shift kit and servo, or what?
i think he means a fully built, performance clutches and bands, hardened output shaft, sun gear i think, and there are alot of other items, i think a fully built trans is good for about 550 hp

link to performance trans site shows alot of the upgradable parts
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L60E.htm

i think he means a fully built, performance clutches and bands, hardened output shaft, sun gear i think, and there are alot of other items, i think a fully built trans is good for about 550 hp

link to performance trans site shows alot of the upgradable parts
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L60E.htm

Thats exactly what i mean... I'm talkin a level 5 FLP tranny.

https://www.flp2win.com/store/index.php?cPath=25_98&osCsid=a025091b24609b11133079058c96ec2f

A good rule of thumb is if you have a 6.0 or greater, then you have a 80e (or an allison, but you'd know that without a doubt). 4.3, 4.8, and 5.3's all use the 60.

Obviously I have the Silverado Performance Package on my 2004 with the 6.0L high output engine LQ9. Still acting like a rookie, I looked at my copy of the original window sticker - very top upper left hand corner where the unit VIN and Engine is indicated. It states HD 4 Speed Automatic Transmission.

So I assume that means it is not the 4l60e
So does that mean its a 4l65e or a 4l80e?

From what I've read on the AF, it sounds like there are some advantages to the HD versions - are there any shortcomings?

If I'm going to get a Nelson Tune - I suppose I need get all the potential out of the truck I can :smile:

P.S. to Jeverett - the dealer I got mine from - now has a Dark Blue 2005 version of mine. Also has Traction Assist which wasn't available in 04.

White Lightening

P.S. to Jeverett - the dealer I got mine from - now has a Dark Blue 2005 version of mine. Also has Traction Assist which wasn't available in 04.

White Lightening


Man, I'd LOVE!!!! to have that. Blue is my fav color! Mine's in the shop right now, having some body work done. I'm driving a loaner 2wd, and I really like it. At first I was kinda skeptical, but man the ride is soooooooo much better. Just out of curosity, how much does one like that cost? ballpark figure...??

Man, I'd LOVE!!!! to have that. Blue is my fav color! Mine's in the shop right now, having some body work done. I'm driving a loaner 2wd, and I really like it. At first I was kinda skeptical, but man the ride is soooooooo much better. Just out of curosity, how much does one like that cost? ballpark figure...??

See - I knew it would get you interested LOL I knew you liked the performace package and when I saw in the listing that it was dark blue - I just figured it was a Jeverett thing LOL.

MSRP is listed at about $33,500. However invoice is probably about $30 and then there are the rebates - and then there is the added incentive commercial use rebate on top of that. Just imagine Dark Blue with those 20 inch Chrome alloy wheels and tires (Goodyear Eagles of course). Now that you are noticing the 2wd effect - imagine driving on a Z60 sport performance suspension. Oh - and bye-the-bye - your Nelson could be swapped out for one for that vehicle I'm sure by just paying the difference LOL. And as I recall - the 05's get about 1 more MPG than mine does according to EPA - so could you get 22 or 23 :smile:

White Lightening

Yeah thats cool and all but whats a truck without 4wd. I mean rain, sleet, snow you're so screwed...especially if you plan on adding power to it!! With the bed being so damn light and the front just the opposite, it makes for terrible traction issues.

SOme of us don't have to worry about that where we live. I can't figure out why anyone around here would get a 4wd. Rain is not a problem in a 2wd and we only get snow or ice here a couple of days a year, and nobody goes anywhere on those days, anyway.

Just imagine Dark Blue with those 20 inch Chrome alloy wheels and tires (Goodyear Eagles of course). Now that you are noticing the 2wd effect - imagine driving on a Z60 sport performance suspension. Oh - and bye-the-bye - your Nelson could be swapped out for one for that vehicle I'm sure by just paying the difference LOL. And as I recall - the 05's get about 1 more MPG than mine does according to EPA - so could you get 22 or 23 :smile:

White Lightening

man...your making me drool!!! With my Nelson, a FIPK, and exhaust that thing would scream!! Then my shift kit/servo...WOW! and more mpg to boot

I'm jealous!!

Now as for the 4wd.....
Hell, its been like 5 years since I've even seen snow here, prolly like 7 since any stuck.. Plus I have another "toy" that takes care of bad weather (yeah the old POS in my sig)

Yeah thats cool and all but whats a truck without 4wd. I mean rain, sleet, snow you're so screwed...especially if you plan on adding power to it!! With the bed being so damn light and the front just the opposite, it makes for terrible traction issues.

Greetings Blenderado,

If you've read my description in my profile - you'll find I'm from WI - a state where snow and ice are a 4 to 6 month activity (depending on the year). My 2wd truck is a 12 month a year vehicle - in fact - the combination of locking differential - Goodyear Eagle tires - a couple hundred pounds of flagstones in the bed floor - and I had stunning traction this winter - in fact - I went up a hill that a 4x4 plow truck couldn't do on one occasion. Anyone who thinks 2wd isn't for winter - just doesn't know. I've only ever owned 1 vehicle that wasn't rear wheel drive. I like the control in the winter - the steering ability. No - I'm not an offroader - but a locking differential and rear wheel drive with proper weight was my choice and desire.

White Lightening

man...your making me drool!!! With my Nelson, a FIPK, and exhaust that thing would scream!! Then my shift kit/servo...WOW! and more mpg to boot

I'm jealous!!

Now as for the 4wd.....
Hell, its been like 5 years since I've even seen snow here, prolly like 7 since any stuck.. Plus I have another "toy" that takes care of bad weather (yeah the old POS in my sig)

Greetings Jeverett,

I don't know why - but I went to look on the website yesterday just on a lark - and as soon as I saw the listing - I thought of you. Dark Charcoal deluxe cloth seats (my favorite choice - more useful than leather) with Dark Blue Metallic paint (thats the striking one in the sun). Has power seat, HD transmission, 20 inch chevy chrome Alloy wheels with Eagles, HD trailering (which means the coolers and H.C. air cleaner), traction assist, 3.73 axle (my choice too), the mirrors with auto dimming and folding (my choice too). Slap a Nelson tune in that rascal and you have zoom and MPG at the same time. Not to mention the warranty, 4 doors in the extended cab, and that Z60 suspension. Heck it sounds so good - maybe I should get it so I'd have a "Sunday truck" :smile:

White Lightening

Greetings Blenderado,

If you've read my description in my profile - you'll find I'm from WI - a state where snow and ice are a 4 to 6 month activity (depending on the year). My 2wd truck is a 12 month a year vehicle - in fact - the combination of locking differential - Goodyear Eagle tires - a couple hundred pounds of flagstones in the bed floor - and I had stunning traction this winter - in fact - I went up a hill that a 4x4 plow truck couldn't do on one occasion. Anyone who thinks 2wd isn't for winter - just doesn't know. I've only ever owned 1 vehicle that wasn't rear wheel drive. I like the control in the winter - the steering ability. No - I'm not an offroader - but a locking differential and rear wheel drive with proper weight was my choice and desire.

White Lightening

Yeah, I was gonna say an LSD works wonders in bad traction situations. My dad used to keep an old F-150 at his beach ouse that had a positraction rear end and large rear tires for diving on the beach. He said he used to have to take it out and pull the out of town folks' 4wd vehicles out of the sand with it. The Germans' VW's kicked our Jeep's asses in WWII out in the desert. The vw's were RWD (with all the weight over the rear wheels) and the Jeeps were 4wd. We always got bogged down in the sand and the germans never seemed to have any trouble.

And I just noticed you said Blenderado. Try not to get us gonfused he is Blackerado and I am BlenderWizard. :biggrin:

:D I know...i know but still!! You do know that the WORLDS FASTEST street truck is a 4x4 chevy though and i guess thats what im going for. I know not everyone cares about being the fastest or getting off the line first... but for me, i cant stand when someone beats me off the line rain or snow or dry pavement.

:D I know...i know but still!! You do know that the WORLDS FASTEST street truck is a 4x4 chevy though and i guess thats what im going for. I know not everyone cares about being the fastest or getting off the line first... but for me, i cant stand when someone beats me off the line rain or snow or dry pavement.

Just curious Blackerado - what is the Chevy 4 x 4 that is the world's fastest street truck? Even more to the point - why wouldn't it be a rwd just like race cars? :smile:

White Lightening

I think he's talking about that 10.67 rcsb 4x4 with the 408, turbo, and 100 shot right?

I'm looking on the webpage today for that truck!! i can't help but go and build my own. Just if they made a reg cab with the 6.0 and HD tranny.. :D

Just curious Blackerado - what is the Chevy 4 x 4 that is the world's fastest street truck? Even more to the point - why wouldn't it be a rwd just like race cars? :smile:

White Lightening

Its not rwd becuase of traction issues, it has over 1000rwtrq!!! The point that you state about race cars is exactly that... A RACE CAR( which means not street driven because...tire size is illegal, they need to rip the body apart to lose weight, they have to put in a roll cage because of body stability, the have no passenger seats, no radio, no ac, you need to tow it to the track not drive it to the track). Parish8's truck is completey street legal, he drives it to and from work, he beats almost anything on the road ( even race cars) in fact he goes faster in the 1/4 mile then most do with $60,000 worth of equipment in the vehicles, he olny has about $15,000 in his and its cause 40% of that is spent on trying to get rid of traction issues. Why do you think that nobody with even a Reg. Cab short bed with 2wd has even broke into the tens not 10.98 not even 10.99999. And they have just as much HP and TRQ that he did when he set that record which is 680hp and 700trq :D

I went to college with John Lingenfelter's nephew... he was telling me about this Suburban John built. 4x4 supercharged, etc, etc. Nothing could stand up to it.

because it was 4wd ;)

Hmm. Maybe I should just keep building mine...

did you read my post on page 3 as well?

Who, Me??

I think he's talking about that 10.67 rcsb 4x4 with the 408, turbo, and 100 shot right?

I'm looking on the webpage today for that truck!! i can't help but go and build my own. Just if they made a reg cab with the 6.0 and HD tranny.. :D

ya thats parish
last i heard
10.65@132
767rwhp 1000rwtq

homepage
http://www.neufamily.org/truck.html

last track run
http://members.cox.net/racervid/Parish10.65cleanSM.wmv

because it was 4wd ;)

Greetings Blackerado,

Well I don't know the specifics of the vehicle you are describing - but over the years - virtually every desired and quality sports car, race car, or performance car and every fast motorcycle out there has been rear wheel drive. If it has positraction or locking differential under any normal circumstance - that will be preferred for performance over awd or 4 x 4 in my opinion. Less linkages, less weight, more direct power to the wheels is evident without a lot of leverage issues against it (in other words - less strain - less wear-and-tear - less maintenance).

Trucks are a bit different than a car or motorcycle. Geometry plays an even bigger part with trucks. If it can sit lower to the ground (no lift kits, no raised geometry) - the power to weight ratio gets incorporated to the wheels better, faster, and more directly (less leverage resistance, less wear, less torque strain). In a truck - the engine sits higher than a car yet the tires still sit on the ground - so its a greater distance to move power to get to the ground. rwd helps reduce that too.

Equally important regarding performance - is control. Rear wheel drive gives you a steering control that 4 x 4 does not. It doesn't mean 4 x 4's don't have performance and can't steer - but having the steering done by something not subject to the torque curves and power feeds is a real plus to handling when "going fast" is the desire.

As you stated - traction is the thing. In a rear wheel drive with locking differential - 2 wheels are driving the vehicle forward - one on each side. In a 4 x 4 - even if you add in locking differential - 2 or at most 3 wheels are doing the power feed - but this time - it could be both left, both right, or cross cornered. Steering is affected as is weight distribution. Stock Ferrari's or cars like my Supra do great in performance - not because they had the biggest engines - but because their engine and drive mechanism are balanced for handling, control, and speed combined. Personally - if I want a fast vehicle - its from 25 to 75 that counts, not from 0 to 60. Just my opinion.

White Lightening

White Lightning- First off if you race your truck in anything other than a straight line against cars, bikes, or whatever then your alot more insane than i am. I want my truck to be bad as hell on the highway in rolling curves, NOT bad as hell taking tight corners, I just dont think the slolom is my thing, I've alwayz been an I'll race you in a straight line kinda guy to less endanger other peoples lives from a roll over cause i thought my truck can handle like a sports car!! If you like taking corners faster than most cars then yeah maybe 2wd is better, but to say that its less strain on parts is completly off!!!

You mean to tell me you think that it's less strain to send 1000hp and 1000trq down through 1 driveshaft, 1 axel, and 2 wheels rather than split the power to 500hp and 500trq to 4 wheels :confused: Sounds like you got it a little mixed up buddy. How many people do you know that can send 600hp on the STOCK real axels, Id like to know!!! Parish8 is sending 1000trq and 720hp to his STOCK axels front and back...and you still think its less strain :confused: hhhmmmmm maybe you read the wrong info somewhere or something, but even lighter bodied camero's switch the real axels because they blow them out with only 600hp go figure almost half the hp and trq and they still have to change out the SAME 10bolt rear end that the trucks carry to a 12bolt or 9" ford rear. I've done all the research it takes to prove you wrong about this convo but you can believe what you want. All i know is that i have proof of everything I'm telling you. Good luck with that rear end and you locking diff. Unless you're not talking about the HP and TRQ I'm talking, about then you have know idea what you're saying!

And not to mention its from 25 - 75 thats is the weakest crap ive heard of...So you go to the track and so wait wait wait... I need to roll to the staging line and then punch it so i can get my best time!! Yoiu sound like the little ricer cars i burn all day long that think a 25 mile hour roll will make a difference. :lol2:

Greetings Blackerado,

Nope. I think the need to stoplight drag race and 1/4 mile drag race is not a normal part of driving. Take the Dodge SRT-10. Its loaded with "whiz bang" mechanicals and specifications to load up on. But is it what you want to drive? Not according to most of the reveiws I've read about it. Its got pure power - but not smooth handling. Its got superior quantities of HP - but not a pleasant driving experience. At least that is what the test drivers said about it.

If you read the articles that the truly gifted race car drivers write and interview for - you'll see a continuing pattern of comment - that the best drivers are not dragster drivers - but track drivers - because its additional skills needed to be a track driver. And they all talk about that they drive much differently in civilian life than they do on the track.

If you "need" the feeling that you're the fastest at the stoplight. If you think it makes you "safer" to others because you only race in a straight line on civilian roads - then I think you need to see a few accidents caused by speed and stoplight racing. While you continue to have to work to pay for replacement tires "burned out" by stoplight dragging and broken parts worn by high torque hammering from sudden accelleration from a dead stop - others like us - will be taking that extra time and money on vacations or spending time with friends and fun.

Racing to me (outside of a track) - is catching my son or my dog in the park - because I lived thru the stupid days that some others didn't. All my parts still work - so I can run after that child or that animal - I know quite a number who can't say the same - because they thought street racing was cool.

I love machines "that work" - driven by adults that think.

White Lightening

Greetings Blackerado,

Nope. I think the need to stoplight drag race and 1/4 mile drag race is not a normal part of driving. Take the Dodge SRT-10. Its loaded with "whiz bang" mechanicals and specifications to load up on. But is it what you want to drive? Not according to most of the reveiws I've read about it. Its got pure power - but not smooth handling. Its got superior quantities of HP - but not a pleasant driving experience. At least that is what the test drivers said about it.

You're comparing apples to oranges...i dont drive a dodge so i wouldnt know nor would i care how they handle!!


If you read the articles that the truly gifted race car drivers write and interview for - you'll see a continuing pattern of comment - that the best drivers are not dragster drivers - but track drivers - because its additional skills needed to be a track driver. And they all talk about that they drive much differently in civilian life than they do on the track.

i know it takes more skill to drive a circuit race... WHICH IS WHY YOU SHOULDN'T DO IT IN A TRUCK....again its not a car, sports car, or race car. By saying this you prove my point as to why its dumb to race a truck around tight corners...It naturually takes more skill to drive a truck over a car, more concentration is involved to compinsate for the size and power of the vehicle. Which is why taking corners in something our size with the potential to crush anything in its path is STUPID!!


If you "need" the feeling that you're the fastest at the stoplight. If you think it makes you "safer" to others because you only race in a straight line on civilian roads - then I think you need to see a few accidents caused by speed and stoplight racing.

No i dont NEED to feel like i'm the fastest i just like to win sometimes... And yes you are absolutely ignorant if you say that going fast in a straight line isnt in fact safer then going fast around a tight corner. I didnt say that racing in a straight line is SAFE, I merely said its safer in this size of a vehicle then taking corners!!!

While you continue to have to work to pay for replacement tires "burned out"

Uuuuummm were you not listening....Traction issues occur with 2WD vehicles, I launch in 4WD I dont "burn out" or spin my tires!!!!

by stoplight dragging and broken parts worn by high torque hammering from sudden accelleration from a dead stop - others like us - will be taking that extra time and money on vacations or spending time with friends and fun.

You think its easier on your tranny to punch the gas from a 25mph roll :lol: wow you know alot about trannys dont ya. When ever you down shift, you put MORE stress on the bands by shifting from a LOW RPM into an immediate HIGH RPM!!!! Thats how your tranny starts to slip.


Racing to me (outside of a track) - is catching my son or my dog in the park - because I lived thru the stupid days that some others didn't. All my parts still work - so I can run after that child or that animal - I know quite a number who can't say the same - because they thought street racing was cool.

If thats the case then why do you need a truck that will handle like a sports car!!! :confused:


I love machines "that work" - driven by adults that think.

White Lightening

Yep which is why I go in a straight line instead of switching lanes and taking corners. As soon as i see a car entering my zone... I dont try to corner or take a lane around him or her....I stop. Hence straight line, and if obstructed you dont accelerate anymore. So lets take the little park you and your son go to for instants, You'd rather see a big ass truck taring ass around a corner in hopes that he doesnt lose control, spinout and hit somebody. Or would you rather look down the street and see someone go 0- 60 and let off the gas cause he accomplished an easy distance. Granted niether one is a good choice but in the instant that it does happen which would you rather see!!!!

Simple solution if you want your truck to handle more like a car: do a 2/4 or a 4/6 drop on it, and you'll be able to out handle most anything that doesn't say CORVETTE across the back end.

I thought this was about Nelson tune??

:lol: