2006 Monte Carlo

'green' doesn't only mean better mpg.


Green: not harmful to the environment

Oh I'm sorry toyota has that special touch with all their plastics to make them environmentally friendly. And for gas they use recycled Farts.... :lol2:

I'm not here to rip on GM Mr.Nuts I like GM as I do Ford and Chrysler but each has dissapointed me in one way or another. As for Honda and Toyota's bland styling they make nothing I want either, I don't want a civic or an Accord, as much as I don't want a Corolla, or Echo. It's just GM doesn't really make much that I want either I think the Vette is gorgeous, I think Chevy trucks are butt fu*kin' ugly though, though I like the GMC variant. As you pointed out The Aveo is the best selling sub-compact though I can't think of too many other sub-compacts sold in the US. I read in Motor Trend and Car Craft magazine that GM has cancelled the Camaro replacement but hey those publications could be wrong. I like the new Cadillac platforms I just think the designers at Cadillac are smoking crack! As you say as well hey lat-offs are just business it's nothing personal, so nothing personal to all those GM employees layed-off, as a metter of fact you can still buy a GM vehicle at the employee cost.

Green: not harmful to the environment

Oh I'm sorry toyota has that special touch with all their plastics to make them environmentally friendly. And for gas they use recycled Farts.... :lol2:


and that just shows how little you know about the subject.

and that just shows how little you know about the subject.

Well then enlighten me. I'm not all that worried about the environment so green means nothing to me.

and if it means nothing to you, i'd just be wasting my time.

I'm not here to rip on GM Mr.Nuts I like GM as I do Ford and Chrysler but each has dissapointed me in one way or another. As for Honda and Toyota's bland styling they make nothing I want either, I don't want a civic or an Accord, as much as I don't want a Corolla, or Echo. It's just GM doesn't really make much that I want either I think the Vette is gorgeous, I think Chevy trucks are butt fu*kin' ugly though, though I like the GMC variant. As you pointed out The Aveo is the best selling sub-compact though I can't think of too many other sub-compacts sold in the US. I read in Motor Trend and Car Craft magazine that GM has cancelled the Camaro replacement but hey those publications could be wrong. I like the new Cadillac platforms I just think the designers at Cadillac are smoking crack! As you say as well hey lat-offs are just business it's nothing personal, so nothing personal to all those GM employees layed-off, as a metter of fact you can still buy a GM vehicle at the employee cost.


GM hasn't cancelled the Camaro, if anything they are looking even more seriously at it due to the demand for the Mustang. GM is definitely going to be releasing a Camaro like vehicle, it just may be called something different.

Cadillac is different, it's cutting edge, and daring, not lexus boring. Perfect example, a bland car people aren't happy with, styling that stands out and enables you to indentify the car from many feet away is too daring and people complain about that. You just can't win.

BTW, Mr. Nuts, I like that. :lol2: I'd like to change my name, it just doesn't fit me anymore but I do like that.

and if it means nothing to you, i'd just be wasting my time.


No really enlighten me.

Jimster that post right there proves you have your head farther up toyotas ass than I do GM.

The Tacoma is a joke for a truck, it can't do anything that Ford or GM trucks can do, it's got a wimpy engine, the interior did not impress me one bit. The tundra is the same thing, the engine is wimpy, and it can't tow are haul much at all. I have a friend that has a tundra, he got bad gas one time and he had to have his whole engine rebuilt, I was getting the same gas with my Suburban and hmmm what do you know, I don't have a problem with it at all. What trucks and SUVs are bringing in top marks? That's right Ford and GM. In the heavy duty segment the GMC Sierra 2500HD is considered to be the best. The Small block GM engines are considered to be the best engine designs of all time, and they last forever. toyota has a long way to go before they are even half as good as the trucks offered by Ford or GM, and when the new GMT900 trucks arrive in 2006 toyota will have to play catchup even more. I never see a toyota towing a 30 foot trailer, or for that matter hauling much of anything either. But yet it's odd to see a GM or Ford truck around here without a trailer being towed behind ir or something being hauled in the back. The engines toyota offers are wimpy compared to the V8s offered by GM. It's funny to how toyota is supposed to be the greenest car company in the world, but yet their trucks and SUVs with smaller less powerful engines don't get as good of gas mileage as the bigger SUVs and trucks offered by GM that make more HP and torque than the trucks offered by toyota.

Oh and the toyota getting dropped doesn't mean anything. I don't know if you are fimiliar with the show mythbusters but on one show there was this older Cadillac that was put through some similiar test and it still ran. Hell the Cadillac engine didn't die so they took it out and put sugar, bleach, lead, paint, anything they could think of in the oil and gas, and it still ran. It took adding massive amount of bleach to the engine before it started to smoke, and it still ran for awhile before starting to smoke and then finally quiting. Don't forget this engine was from the 70s too when GM was supposedly making junk cars. So yeah woo the toyota can survive a crash, getting dropped and getting some salt water in the interior, just about any truck or car can handle abuse like that, most of it's to the body and not the engine itself. Do you know who sells the most big boat engines in the world, yup you guess it GM, engines on boats are subjected to some of the harshes environments around and the Small Block GM engines are the prefferred for this type of application too.
Oh, right Interior plastics should be the number one priority when buying a pickup :rolleyes: Toyota mustn't offer the turbo-diesel Tacoma in the states, which is the engine to have in the Hilux, this is a truck used by sheep farmers in places like Scotland and New Zealands South Island to tackle some of the toughest terrain in the world, that's when they're not tackling the Sahara or the Simpson desert, or ferrying the Taleban rebels about Afganistan. A Japanese turbo-diesel Ute is the only real way to go if want a proper ute, maybe not in North America, the only place where Rams and F150s aren't so expensive you'd worry about scratching it to kingdom come, but certainly elsewhere.


I don't have my head up Toyotas ass either, in fact I hate them, characterless but extremely tough and extremely reliable transport.

OK first I have one question if you don't care about the look of the interiors how come you criticize GM about the same stuff you dismiss in other vehicles?

Second, no plastics are not the whole picture, but a good interior ads to the overall appeal of a vehicle.

Nope they don't offer the diesel in the U.S. Anyway, if the converters are correct that I used to convert Kw to HP, and Nm to LB. FT. the diesel seems a little whimpy too.

I'm talking about trucks not cars, finish is indeed important on most cars, however trucks are workhorses, they're already far too luxurious, what should matter with a Pickup is how much it can haul and how well it can get through swamps/uneven terrain etc. It's sad that there's such a big market for selling prettied up trucks that can't do anything properly to idiot lawyers who wished they were the construction worker guy from the Villiage people.

Turbo diesels are not powerful, they were never meant to be, the torque however is clearly significant enough for the Hilux to do everything a fullsize pick up can do, right up to the very extreme end of the scale where someone wants to tow 7 or 8000 lbs (Something less than 1% of pickup drivers do)

Like I said if my converters are right it has less than 300 pound feet of torque, which is still pretty wimpy, Toyotas website says the turbo diesel can tow 5,000 pounds max, which isn't much.

And you gotta keep in mind it's not only the engine that enables you to tow that much but the suspension, the vehicle length, the transmission, and frame.

A full size truck can tow more than 5,000 pounds.

GM hasn't cancelled the Camaro, if anything they are looking even more seriously at it due to the demand for the Mustang. GM is definitely going to be releasing a Camaro like vehicle, it just may be called something different.

Cadillac is different, it's cutting edge, and daring, not lexus boring. Perfect example, a bland car people aren't happy with, styling that stands out and enables you to indentify the car from many feet away is too daring and people complain about that. You just can't win.

BTW, Mr. Nuts, I like that. :lol2: I'd like to change my name, it just doesn't fit me anymore but I do like that.


I'd like to believe that 1st part about the Camaro type car I really would, only time will tell. When GM was asked about Mustang sales they said "We already have the Monte Carlo, in that niche and we think the Cobalt SS will help us as well in that segment!

As for Cadillac, call it what you will cutting edge, stand out either way it's just plain ugly.

I'd like to believe that 1st part about the Camaro type car I really would, only time will tell. When GM was asked about Mustang sales they said "We already have the Monte Carlo, in that niche and we think the Cobalt SS will help us as well in that segment!

As for Cadillac, call it what you will cutting edge, stand out either way it's just plain ugly.


I'd like to see a source for this Monte Carlo and Cobalt SS statement, I've never heard it. head over to GMinsidenews and look at the information on a Camaro like vehicle that is pretty much confirmed to be coming.

Cadillac has come to be the number one selling Luxury brand in the U.S., with record sales too. People must like the look...

I'd like to see a source for this Monte Carlo and Cobalt SS statement, I've never heard it. head over to GMinsidenews and look at the information on a Camaro like vehicle that is pretty much confirmed to be coming.

Cadillac has come to be the number one selling Luxury brand in the U.S., with record sales too. People must like the look...


It was either Popular Hot Rodding, or Car Craft.

wait a minute.... an american car selling well in america..... shock horror!
GM fan not caring about the environment... shock horror!!

just out of interest, how old are you?

Those statements show your ignorance....

Just out of interest, why the hell do you want to know?

ignorance?
let's see, america, the country which has a car industry partially kept afloat because of blind patriotism (and a totally fucked up credit situation)
america, the country that stubbornly refuses to agree to the kyoto agreement.
let's not forget that in part, i am actually only reiterating what you have said
(you are a GM fan, you don't care about the environment).

why do i want to know your age?
curiosity.

anyway.
this has gotten a little bit too far from the topic.
as a vague attempt to rescue the thread, let's have a simple yay/nay on whether you think this is a good car.

my view.

a big fat Nay!

Oh so because I'm a GM Fan I don't care about the environment. Again shows your ignorance. I take it you think GM makes nothing but big gas guzzling SUVs and doesn't care about the Environment.

I do believe we call people like you tree huggers.

Patriotism plays no part in what I buy.

what makes me a tree hugger?
the fact that i simply know more about green issues than you?
isn't that we call ignorance?

Oh so because I'm a GM Fan I don't care about the environment. Again shows your ignorance. I take it you think GM makes nothing but big gas guzzling SUVs and doesn't care about the Environment.

I do believe we call people like you tree huggers.

Patriotism plays no part in what I buy.


Yeah those damned liberal tree huggers, always wanting clean air and water for their damned children! What's with that anyway! Toxins are our friends dammit and it's high time they learned that, unpatriotic, freedom lovin', democracy supportin' sons a b*thces!

Well then enlighten me. I'm not all that worried about the environment so green means nothing to me.

The next day..

Oh so because I'm a GM Fan I don't care about the environment.

So you're saying that the environment means nothing to you, but you're also suggesting that because you're a GM fan, you do care about the environment? Make up your mind and quit contradicting yourself. And don't act like GM isn't surviving solely on blind patriotism. GM has been losing money on their vehicles for a long time, and the only reason they're surviving is because of massive rebates, customer loyalty cash-back, incentives for financing with GM, and oh yeah, their goddamn trucks and SUVs, which aren't even all that impressive anymore when compared to the competition. I mean, you'd think that with over a decade to re-design their small pickup truck, GM would put out something truly impressive with the Chevy Colorado. Instead, we get sloppy build quality, a poorly designed interior, and a diminuitive five-cylinder engine. Their full-size trucks and SUVs are equally unimpressive, beat out by Toyota and Honda in terms of quality, Nissan in terms of athleticism, and BMW and Mercedes-Benz in terms of luxury. GM is putting out inferior product that only sells because it's so cheap, or because people that have been buying GM since the 60's (when the company was actually doing well) are afraid of change. If they don't shape up soon, they're going to die of old age, along with the majority of their client base.

I'm going to enjoy what I drive. Me switching to a more fuel efficient vehicle doesn't mean anything. I guess I'm just not green, and I don't mind that.....

How about this, if you think switching to a more fuel efficient vehicle will help save part of the environment, you can do it for me. Instead of driving a more fuel efficient car, ride a bike, help out the environment for me...

I'd like to believe that 1st part about the Camaro type car I really would, only time will tell. When GM was asked about Mustang sales they said "We already have the Monte Carlo, in that niche and we think the Cobalt SS will help us as well in that segment!

The following is from autoweek.com 6/27/05

Regarding the Mustang, Jim Campbell, Chevrolet car marketing director, says: "I wake up every day knowing that I am spotting Ford 150,000 to 200,000 units.

How about this, if you think switching to a more fuel efficient vehicle will help save part of the environment, you can do it for me. Instead of driving a more fuel efficient car, ride a bike, help out the environment for me...

And that's exactly what the problem with this country is: nobody wants to do anything themselves. They expect God, or the president, or whoever the hell ever to do everyting for them. We're too scared of each other to work together, and that's no way to build a good society.

The next day..



So you're saying that the environment means nothing to you, but you're also suggesting that because you're a GM fan, you do care about the environment? Make up your mind and quit contradicting yourself. And don't act like GM isn't surviving solely on blind patriotism. GM has been losing money on their vehicles for a long time, and the only reason they're surviving is because of massive rebates, customer loyalty cash-back, incentives for financing with GM, and oh yeah, their goddamn trucks and SUVs, which aren't even all that impressive anymore when compared to the competition. I mean, you'd think that with over a decade to re-design their small pickup truck, GM would put out something truly impressive with the Chevy Colorado. Instead, we get sloppy build quality, a poorly designed interior, and a diminuitive five-cylinder engine. Their full-size trucks and SUVs are equally unimpressive, beat out by Toyota and Honda in terms of quality, Nissan in terms of athleticism, and BMW and Mercedes-Benz in terms of luxury. GM is putting out inferior product that only sells because it's so cheap, or because people that have been buying GM since the 60's (when the company was actually doing well) are afraid of change. If they don't shape up soon, they're going to die of old age, along with the majority of their client base.


They aren't surviving on loyalty cash back, and obviously you have no idea about GM products what so ever when you're spouting about all the SUVs and trucks being beaten by toyota, nissan, mercedes(wtf the only SUVs they make are the biggest jokes around, same thing with BMW). The 5 cylinder gets better gas mileage and similiar torque and HP ratings of competitors V6 engines. Their SUVs and Trucks have better engines (higher torque ratings, higher HP ratings), the engines are some of the most highly respected in the industry, and the tundra and tacoma, and titan missed on all those points, and as I said before, if you think the tacoma and tundras interiors are more comfortable and nicer than a Ford or GMs interior you have a screw loose, same thing with their SUVs. They are smaller, less powerful, more expensive in some cases than comparable Ford or GM models, and to top it off they get worse gas mileage. Nope rebates and patriotism don't play as big of a part as you think, when you compare these vehicles side by side it's a fact you are getting more buying a Ford or GM than you are buying a toyota, nissan (missed it's sales mark but a wide margin), or those other jokes from BMW or Mercedes (while we're here, the SRX is considered the bench mark for all other luxury crossovers to follow, not those BMW and Mercedes ones). Nice try, go back to loving your gas sippng Camry ricer, and praying for the environment. Oh and research the upcoming GMT900 trucks and SUVs. Toyota is playing catchup trying to design competitors to 1995 GM trucks and SUVs and GMs moving ahead even more. toyota tundra texas edition, what a joke. :lol2:


Oh and what I'm saying is, people (mainly import fanatics) seem to classify anyone with a GM, or Ford vehicle as people who don't care about the environment. No I don't care much about it, but that's not true for most other people who drive GM.

well, between the how-ever many billions lost in share prices, masses of job cuts and various sub-brands being stopped it doesn't actually sound like GM are doing that well.

and before one of the mods jumps in, this is an international forum.
to me, an american car is an import.

Can we just close this thread?

well, i tried to get it back on track but that guy insists on (blindly) praising GM despite the list of faults that people here have been presenting.

how about another try?

do you think the monte carlo is a good car?
my response would be that it, being a press release picture and hence may not be truely representative of the real thing, isn't looking too good.

Nobody here is coming off as particularly insightful. Personally I liked the new colorado, I liked the larger size and styling over the S10 it replaced. I don't see how the same people can complain about the 5 cylinder motor and at the same time the environmental implications of americans love for high displacement power? I don't know what it is about some japanese car owners getting all self ritious, we are all using fossil fuels and any car with alot of power regardless of how it does it uses up lots of gas, lets not bring the environment into this or we are all guilty unless you drive the most fuel efficient car on the market. You didn't buy the car for its green appeal so don't talk like you care so much for everyone else and the planet because your car gets 5mpg more than the next guy. I do totally agree that the new monte has more power than it should up front, but the same thing goes for alot of japanese cars too. We have the new Eclipse with I think 260 HP to the front wheels, the Acura TL, and the Honda accord V6 off the top of my head . Personally the only ones who have it right are the BMWs and the Mercedes, all their family cars (although pricey) have RWD. The thing is, different strokes, different folks. If you go to a forum called cars I love and cars I hate, you should expect an argument, I can see no other reason to name a forum like that.

As far as the Monte Carlo goes, no I don't like it either.

well, between the how-ever many billions lost in share prices, masses of job cuts and various sub-brands being stopped it doesn't actually sound like GM are doing that well.

and before one of the mods jumps in, this is an international forum.
to me, an american car is an import.

Masses of job cuts? Really they have announced cuts of 25,000 jobs by the end of the decade, due to healthcare costs and upgrading the factories to be even more efficient. Sub Brands being stopped? what are you talking about, they killed Oldsmobile a few years ago, that's it.

That last sentence explains a lot....

well, i tried to get it back on track but that guy insists on (blindly) praising GM despite the list of faults that people here have been presenting.

how about another try?

do you think the monte carlo is a good car?
my response would be that it, being a press release picture and hence may not be truely representative of the real thing, isn't looking too good.


List of faults huh, well yeah GM does have some it's one of the oldest car companies around, with much more responsibility than toyota or any of those other manufacturers have.


Any car manufacturer has faults, but I guess you can't figure that out. Most of the reason you are hearing about GM so much is because GM is the biggest car company in the world and the media here in the states likes to paint GM as a big mean monster that can't do anything right, whole drinking toyota and hondas cool-aid.

They aren't surviving on loyalty cash back, and obviously you have no idea about GM products what so ever when you're spouting about all the SUVs and trucks being beaten by toyota, nissan, mercedes(wtf the only SUVs they make are the biggest jokes around, same thing with BMW). The 5 cylinder gets better gas mileage and similiar torque and HP ratings of competitors V6 engines. Their SUVs and Trucks have better engines (higher torque ratings, higher HP ratings), the engines are some of the most highly respected in the industry, and the tundra and tacoma, and titan missed on all those points, and as I said before, if you think the tacoma and tundras interiors are more comfortable and nicer than a Ford or GMs interior you have a screw loose, same thing with their SUVs. They are smaller, less powerful, more expensive in some cases than comparable Ford or GM models, and to top it off they get worse gas mileage. Nope rebates and patriotism don't play as big of a part as you think, when you compare these vehicles side by side it's a fact you are getting more buying a Ford or GM than you are buying a toyota, nissan (missed it's sales mark but a wide margin), or those other jokes from BMW or Mercedes (while we're here, the SRX is considered the bench mark for all other luxury crossovers to follow, not those BMW and Mercedes ones).

Okay.

Nice try, go back to loving your gas sippng Camry ricer, and praying for the environment. Oh and research the upcoming GMT900 trucks and SUVs. Toyota is playing catchup trying to design competitors to 1995 GM trucks and SUVs and GMs moving ahead even more. toyota tundra texas edition, what a joke.

Now you're being an asshole. My Camry is a ricer car? It was built in Kentucky, you dumbass. I wouldn't call it a gas sipper either, it only gets around 20 miles per gallon in the city; yes, it has a V6 in there. And I'm not an environmentalist by any means, hell, I'm not even sticking up for them, I'm just pointing out the obvious facts. I don't pray for the environment; in fact, I don't pray for jack shit period. So you can take your extremist stereotypes about me and shove them.

Bottom line: I don't like most of GM's current product. I don't think they're making very many good cars, trucks, and SUVs, and judging by how much money they lose each year on their vehicles, I'd say that I'm more right than you are.

Well by the looks of your signature you'd love to have it as a ricer....

Yes GM is loosing Money, but if you'd just look and realize what products are coming out you'd see something.... hell it has to be something good if the media who has seen it is praising them. Some of the reporters who have seen them are some of the most biased people against GM.

One of the major problems for GM is public perception caused by the biased media who likes to paint GM as a company who is environmentally unfriendly, builds shitty products, and doesn't care what you want. They dig any little piece of dirt up that they can about GM and then make sure it's allover the news. The general public listens and automatically thinks GM is bad, without doing any research. It's like the fuel economy numbers, many of GMs vehicles get better gas mileage than their competitors (look at the SUVs) but the media still paints GM as a gas guzzling SUV maker.

Well by the looks of your signature you'd love to have it as a ricer....

That's a Touring car, not a ricer.





Anyway, basically, to sum up what I think, GM nowdays is about where the BMC was after the Allegro had come and gone, it stands to reason.

The media has every right to bag GM, would you trust your best friend straight after he slept with your wife? No, so why should the media not be suspicious of GM after years of constant crap.

That's a Touring car, not a ricer.





Anyway, basically, to sum up what I think, GM nowdays is about where the BMC was after the Allegro had come and gone, it stands to reason.

The media has every right to bag GM, would you trust your best friend straight after he slept with your wife? No, so why should the media not be suspicious of GM after years of constant crap.


Right, that's why I see ricers going up and down the street that look awful similiar....

Oh and I'm betting that wing just does so much for the stability of the car.... [Sarcasm]

One of the major problems for GM is public perception caused by the biased media who likes to paint GM as a company who is environmentally unfriendly, builds shitty products, and doesn't care what you want. They dig any little piece of dirt up that they can about GM and then make sure it's allover the news. The general public listens and automatically thinks GM is bad, without doing any research. It's like the fuel economy numbers, many of GMs vehicles get better gas mileage than their competitors (look at the SUVs) but the media still paints GM as a gas guzzling SUV maker.

That's fine, but I actually have done my research, and I still don't think GM is a very good company. I have no qualms with their fuel economy, or their engines in general; it's their reputation for bad build quality, wishy-washy marketing strategy, and refusal to embrace the newer generation's desires that makes them a failing company.

Oh yeah, that's not a ricer in my signature, that's a race car. It has a racing engine, racing suspension, and racing chassis. And unlike the riced-out Camrys you see so frequently on the streets, the wing on this one isn't just for looks, it's for giving the car rear traction. That usually isn't necessary on a FWD car, but just from looking at the ride height, you can deduce that the car's suspension setup is strongly biased towards frontal grip; the rear wing is there to help keep it reasonably stable during rear slides. Even I can do small slides in my stock Camry by braking late and hard enough, so I can imagine what it would be able to do with a race-tuned suspension.

Let's just close this thread and move on...

feed a guy shit all his life and he gets to love it.

That's fine, but I actually have done my research, and I still don't think GM is a very good company. I have no qualms with their fuel economy, or their engines in general; it's their reputation for bad build quality....


Yeah that's why the most recent JD Powers long term reliability survey has GM placing first in 8 segments, more than any other manufacturer including toyota which only led in 4 categories, ford outperformed toyota and honda too....


Just think that's for 2002 model year vehicles, imagine how GM and Ford are doing with 2004, 2005, and 2006 models.... Two Words public perception, that's what holds GM back now... People to lazy to research stuff themselves so they listen to the media who is stuck in the 70s...

http://www.jdpa.com/pdf/2005089.pdf

I think that you are a far too trusting person. A couple of successes in recent polls (which are highly subjective) should not take precedence over twenty years of consistently bad build quality. Maybe GM has recovered, and their product is now perfectly fine, but I'll wait a few more years and see how those 2002 models are holding up in 2012. Automotive reliability and build quality is not the kind of thing I take chances with.

Well look at my signature for proof GM builds great cars. Buick park Avenu with 210,000 plus miles on it and runs as good as it did the day it was drove off the dealer lot. GM has consistently been improving in all the surveys over the past years. Don't take my word on it, try a new GM car out...

Well look at my signature for proof GM builds great cars. Buick park Avenu with 210,000 plus miles on it and runs as good as it did the day it was drove off the dealer lot. GM has consistently been improving in all the surveys over the past years. Don't take my word on it, try a new GM car out...
Now you're REALLY sounding like a guy from a GM ad.

One of the major problems for GM is public perception caused by the biased media who likes to paint GM as a company who is environmentally unfriendly, builds shitty products, and doesn't care what you want. They dig any little piece of dirt up that they can about GM and then make sure it's allover the news. The general public listens and automatically thinks GM is bad, without doing any research. It's like the fuel economy numbers, many of GMs vehicles get better gas mileage than their competitors (look at the SUVs) but the media still paints GM as a gas guzzling SUV maker.

Im sorry man I dont wanna be another one to attack your views but I just don't agree

Environmentally unfriendly is a fact with SUV's & trucks and GM has been pumping them out non-stop...Im less harsh on trucks because ppl need them...but SUV's are the worst and GM is the king of the SUV

Shitty products? the computer died on our Olds Bravada at 40,000km on our way to a funeral...had to be towed back, cost us $300 under warranty...it has had numerous 4WD problems, along with electronics failures, ect (that I6 is amazing tho!)...on the other hand...our 2001 Mazda Protege (still relatively free from Ford influences) has been absolutely abused by me, I freely admit it...and now at 120,000km we have had the brakes fixed once, and the tires replaced...thats it...now how do you expect me to have a positive opinion from my experience with GM?

lastly...GM up until now hasn't cared what we wanted...I followed the 25,000 lay off + restructuring plan very closely on TV and all the automotive business experts have continued to say "GM has not been making cars that people want to buy, they have been making inferior products to Honda, Toyota and then throwing incentives around" I didnt say it...automotive experts said it, not me

I am not taking sides here at all. I agree that Buick and Oldsmobile have been making boring cars and I really don't know or really care how they run, they spark no interest in me. However, I don't think GM is in any major trouble. Cutting 25000 people isn't as bad as it seems. It happens all the time and it will continue to as long as things get more efficient. The US Navy has cut 30000 sailors in the last 2 years, is the navy weaker? No, its just more automated and we don't need people to do some of the things we used to do manually in the past. It may have been a bit behind the times and needed to catch up with other companys that already were more efficient and may have just not hired those workers to begin with. The fact is that GM is pretty much kicking butt in the SUV dept. To say they are evil for making something environemtally friendly is pretty short sighted. All auto makers in america are after a piece of the SUV craze, even toyota, nissan, and now honda (and of course all the other american car companies). Its a business, they aren't out to help the environment, they are out to sell cars. I think that GM trucks and full size cars have always been competitive. I think there is plenty of fanboys on both sides of this issue. As the issue stands now in 05 I think that chevy has been putting out some cool stuff and some possibly bad ideas, but that happens with all cars. They can't all be the best. The Cobalt is brand new the corvette is new they have the colorado (which I liked alot surprisingly after the crap people talked about it). I think the 06 monte carlo is stupid, but I think alot of cars are stupid. I think the Element, vibe/aztek, montecarlo, Murano, Scion Xa/Xb, new eclipse and pretty much all hyundais and kias are all stupid looking or just dumb concepts. There are tons of cars that people don't like. If someone thinks that the quality between a 99 cavalier and a 99 civic are different, I would say they are right. But when those cars were new the Cavalier was noticably cheaper and thats what the consumer was looking for. I know gonenuts is coming off as a diehard chevy fanatic (which he very well may be) but I think he's just trying to bring up valid points but between the different flames back and forth it gets lost in brand loyalty and patriotism and reverse patriotism. In short this is all a business and no matter what company you talk about, it is out to get you to buy a new car, they would sell everyone a car that only ran for 10 minutes if they knew it would sell.

Again, can we just close this thread?

Again, can we just close this thread?

You DO realize you don't have to click on the thread if you don't want to. Right?

"It seems the GTO will live on at least until '07 or '08 as GM has decided to cancel the Zeta platform on which it is to be based."


-GM High-Tech magazine Jul/Aug '05


"GM's plans for a rear-drive Buick Velite sedan, convertible, or anything else are officially dead. The murder also affects any rear-drive Chevy coupe, Camaro, Chevelle, or otherwise. While development of a new zeta platform was scaled back months ago, the decision to pull the plug on these new cars is much more recent. The only sub-Cadillac/Corvette rear-drive program going forth (besides Pontiac Solstice and Saturn Sky) is the next gen GTO, expected to last until 2008."

-Motor Trend magazine Aug. '05


"Right now we're letting Ford have the pony car market."

".....but the business decisions have to come at a time we can afford to do it as a company."

-Mark Reuss - GM performance division executive director.
-Hot Rod magazine Aug. '05

I had high hopes for the '06 Monte Carlo but after looking into it, I realized how little effort appears to have been put into it. I've always disliked the rear end visually, and that's still there. I've always disliked the FWD and that's still there. It seems that it would have only taken a few small changes to sell me on the '06. Unfortunately, Chevy didn't make them.

P.S. F#*%! the environment. :)

After reading all of what was mentioned above, I have to chime in.

Look at how bad GM is doing. This employee discount hurt them a LOT in the long-run.

GM is not giving its customers what they want. A lot of people realized that in order to drive back and forth between work and home, they don't need a 300+ hp SUV that gets 10 mpg. An Accord, or even a Civic will do just fine for them. Plus they run forever.

Ford has made a good product that 1% of the population needs (F250, F350 pickup trucks) and they try to sell it to the rest of the population. Honda and Toyota made pickup trucks that are far better for the average person and they're far more economical. In a pickup truck comparison, Car and Driver picked the Ridgeline for 1st place. Here's what MotorTrend says about it "To prove just how serious the Ridgeline is about competing in the pickup-truck business, we hooked one up to a 5000-pound trailer and drag-raced an equally equipped Ford F-150 with an optional 5.4-liter V-8. The Ridgeline's lack of displacement and two cylinders put it at a distinct disadvantage, but the race was close, and the Honda was barking at the Ford's heels the entire time. We didn't expect it to beat the Ford, but we were surprised at how close it was."

I understand the point you started to make. But how did we get into Ford and Honda Truck comparos?

After reading all of what was mentioned above, I have to chime in.

Look at how bad GM is doing. This employee discount hurt them a LOT in the long-run.

GM is not giving its customers what they want. A lot of people realized that in order to drive back and forth between work and home, they don't need a 300+ hp SUV that gets 10 mpg. An Accord, or even a Civic will do just fine for them. Plus they run forever.

Ford has made a good product that 1% of the population needs (F250, F350 pickup trucks) and they try to sell it to the rest of the population. Honda and Toyota made pickup trucks that are far better for the average person and they're far more economical. In a pickup truck comparison, Car and Driver picked the Ridgeline for 1st place. Here's what MotorTrend says about it "To prove just how serious the Ridgeline is about competing in the pickup-truck business, we hooked one up to a 5000-pound trailer and drag-raced an equally equipped Ford F-150 with an optional 5.4-liter V-8. The Ridgeline's lack of displacement and two cylinders put it at a distinct disadvantage, but the race was close, and the Honda was barking at the Ford's heels the entire time. We didn't expect it to beat the Ford, but we were surprised at how close it was."


Sorry bro but the F-150 is way better built than the Ridgeline, and the Tundra. If however you're saying the Ridgeline is better why include the Toyota as better for the consumer as the Tundra is nothing more than a conventional truck as apposed to the Ridgeline which is an entirely new approach to trucks. My fear now is that Ford, GM, Dodge, even Toyota, and Nissan will think "Hey we can make a gay truck that sells too." By the way wasn't this thread about the Monte Carlo a car that most no one on this board seems to want to buy?

P.S. I agree with you that GM is making cars no one wants.

The following is from autoweek.com 6/27/05

Regarding the Mustang, Jim Campbell, Chevrolet car marketing director, says: "I wake up every day knowing that I am spotting Ford 150,000 to 200,000 units.

That hurts......damn that hurts :banghead:

It took so long for the thread to die, it got pretty heated and turned into an import vs domestic debate

Why did you have to bring it back??

don't bring back old (< 1 month) threads