NHTSA Investigates GM ABS Problems!!!!

Government investigating brakes on 1.2 million GM trucks

By KEN THOMAS
Associated Press Writer

May 3, 2005, 1:33 AM EDT


WASHINGTON -- The government has opened an investigation of more than 1.2 million General Motors Corp. pickup trucks and sport utility vehicles in Connecticut and 20 other states amid questions about the vehicles' antilock brakes.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said Monday that stopping distances may increase when the brakes are applied at speeds of under 10 mph because of the build up of corrosion.

NHTSA has reported nearly two dozen crashes, including one that involved six vehicles and four injuries because of the problem. There have been no fatalities associated with the braking issue.

The investigation involves 1.27 million GM trucks and SUVs from the 1999-2002 model years in the following states: Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Missouri, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, Wisconsin, West Virginia. It also covers the District of Columbia.

The vehicles include the GMC Sierra, GMC Tahoe, GMC Yukon Denali, GMC Yukon XL, GMC Yukon XL Denali; Chevrolet Avalanche, Chevrolet Silverado, Chevrolet Suburban; Cadillac Escalade, and Cadillac EXT.

GM, the world's largest automaker, recalled about 150,000 pickups in eastern Canada in November 2004 from the same model years because of the condition in the antilock brakes.

In some of the vehicles, the corrosion of salt and other cold-weather road substances led to unwanted activation of the brake system at low speeds and increased the stopping distance.

NHTSA said the U.S. cases "appear to be related to the defect condition addressed by GM's safety recall in Canada."

GM spokesman Alan Adler said the company reported a failure rate of about 3 incidents per 100,000 vehicles in the Canadian recalls.

The company announced a recall of more than 2 million vehicles last week, including nearly 1.5 million sport utility vehicles and pickups because of problems with their seat belts.

My truck was built at the Fort Wayne, Indiana plant, but I live in Georgia. I'm really not sure if that pertains to me or not.

It looks like they are saving money by basing the recall on location rather than fixing all defective/ possibly defective parts. Apparently you are covered if the truck is registered in some states that use lots of road salt. But what about people from other states who travel in the winter, or people in the West who regularly drive over mountain passes?

GM also announced a parking brake recall in the last week or two--but only for manual trans trucks. I think an automatic has the same bad parking brake system. There's just less chance of rolling with the auto in park.

I live in Winnipeg and they use a TON of salt here on the roads. Thankfully i have not had any problems with the antilock brakes on my truck..........yet , although i did get a recall in the mail for the antilock brake problem but GM's system was/is all screwed up and i got someone elses recall. At least it was my own personal info on the recall with the exception of the vin# and when i enquired about the recall they told me that my truck was not part of the recall because i did not live in the desiginated areas that the recall was for.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the reason for the recall being mainly in the northern states is due to the salt causing corrosion to the ABS equipment, right?

Well, I live near the Gulf Coast in Texas and own a boat. I've experienced, first hand, what salt water and salt air can do to a boat and a vehicle. Why would this environment be any different than salt on the roads?

I think the environment is much different. When they salt the roads, they litterally dump TONS of salt on the road, which turns everything to slush which literally sprays up and cakes your car, undercarraige, wheel wells, etc. Ever seen a nice dry road in the Northeast in January? The pavement will look white, absolutely covered with
salt. It will take a couple rains storms to rinse it away in the spring, and during that road wash, it will all be spraying up on your car. I agree the ocean salt can be corrosive, I saw it first hand 2 weeks ago in FT Lauderdale on my in-laws condo, all the window tracks and light fixtures covered, but I think the conditions in the North are considerably worse. Southern cars sell well in the North.

I'm from texas, near the coast, and I know that ocean salt is AT LEAST as bad as salted roads. Either place you're getting a salt/sand mix, and that is hell on everything.

I would definately argue it is "AT LEAST" as bad. Do you have any idea what cars up here look like after number of years?????? Again, southern vehicles are sought after up here, and many used body panels people purchase to replace their rusted out ones are from the south. Many dealers up here travel to auctions in Fl and bring back the vehicles. But you say you "know that ocean salt is AT LEAST as bad" so I am curious as to how you know that? Are there facts somewhere? I would like to know the actual answer.

I would encourage anyone who has experienced the abs problem with their truck to file a complaint with the NHTSA at http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ . GM's assertion that this problem is happening to only 3% of trucks in the rust areas of Canada is ludicrous. Everyone I've talked to with a truck with over 40,000 miles has had the problem here. I just removed the fuse from the ABS system as a short term fix.

Also, I have to agree with the guys who live near the coast - there's a lot of older rust buckets in coastal towns. It's not good for a vehicle to drive through salt water or sit near the ocean in the spray.

I would definately argue it is "AT LEAST" as bad. Do you have any idea what cars up here look like after number of years?????? Again, southern vehicles are sought after up here, and many used body panels people purchase to replace their rusted out ones are from the south. Many dealers up here travel to auctions in Fl and bring back the vehicles. But you say you "know that ocean salt is AT LEAST as bad" so I am curious as to how you know that? Are there facts somewhere? I would like to know the actual answer.

Do you have any idea what a car that stays near the beach looks like after a couple year? A rusted out hunk of crap. You said "southern," I said "near the coast." I have seen a few people have their ENTIRE CAR sprayed with bedliner... that seems to help.

Forgot to mention - here is central NY - more snow (and salt) than any other major metropolitan area of US.

FYI - auto manufacturers use a salt water spray to test corrosion resistance on body panels.

Do you have any idea what a car that stays near the beach looks like after a couple year? A rusted out hunk of crap. You said "southern," I said "near the coast." I have seen a few people have their ENTIRE CAR sprayed with bedliner... that seems to help.


IN LAWS HAVE A 10 YEAR OLD CAR PARKED THAT HAS BEEN PARKED 200 YARDS OFF THE OCEAN IN FL ITS WHOLE LIFE. EFFECTS OF THE SALT IS NO WHERE EVEN NEAR COMPARABLE.

I don't live on the coast but when I went to college, All my friends vehicles that were from up north were rust buckets which were about 10 year old vehicles or less. I mean the brake lines, body and chassis. I bought a van from up north that there where holes in the body membors, No lower body panels all the way around (all rusted through), The back bumper is fixing to fall off, (moves a little when I step on it) and the inside floor board has large holes in it. Every time i close the door, a plile of rust fall off of it somewhere. I recently had the rust pile towed off. Vehicle was about 15 years old.

I just put this up here for someone else to give a comparison of what they of seen on the southern coasts.

I would also argue the point. Cars are lasting longer now do to improved coating. I remember back in the late 70`s seeing four year old trucks with the doors falling off them. Wooden flat beds replacing the steel box that was once there. I`d take the coast any day.

well if the ntsh wants a truck to study thay can have mine. I had the abs problem since day one. that was one of the first problems that i had the truck in for. the abs system was kicking on in parking lots. that was even befor the first time i had it on salted roads.

its bad enuff that i have been thinking of riding the motor cycle in the rain insted of the truck.

all the dealer could say was well it kicks in when your on sand. that was a hoot i was never on sand. when it was kicking in it should of kicked in in the driveway at work since it has heavy sanded.

been a over year trying to get that fixed, Also the sudden lack of power. you can be driving a long then bam the truck feels like it was hit, only last a second or two. then its fine. untill you try to go up hill. when i have down shifted any truck and held the gas to the floor normly you can get the rpms way up. this truck nope on some days it will never climb above 2k. untill you stop shut off the truck restart then put it into first and finsh going up hill. spent one day just going up that hill. every 5 time it would act up.


just to be shure its not me, I have had 6 others drive the truck 3 say thay will never drive it agen. thay are semi drivers. one i had to delever his truck to him he got out side of town and it did its stall / shuter / stamer/ or what ever the dealers want to call it, but cant find. he thought he hit some one it shook that bad.

I really don't know why the dealers give people such a hard time about doing warranty work... GM reimburses them

I really don't know why the dealers give people such a hard time about doing warranty work... GM reimburses them


That's easy. Becase they can't con GM into getting other things done at the same time.*

Holds true for any other mfg; Not GM-specific.

*Apologies to any honest mechanics reading this. I know there are some out there. I've met a few.

Well, I will say this for all of you in GA: I just had my rear quarter window replaced oon the passenger's side under warranty. I took it to Cobb Parkway Chevrolet. They did it very quickly (they had to order the window unit), and they did it with no questions asked. If you have any warranty work needing to be done, I suggest this dealership. Ask for Tim when you go there.

Also the sudden lack of power. you can be driving a long then bam the truck feels like it was hit, only last a second or two. then its fine. untill you try to go up hill. when i have down shifted any truck and held the gas to the floor normly you can get the rpms way up. this truck nope on some days it will never climb above 2k. untill you stop shut off the truck restart then put it into first and finsh going up hill. spent one day just going up that hill. every 5 time it would act up.


May sound stupid, but you have changed your fuel filter right? That is very similar to the way mine was acting when my filter went bad, I couldn't get the RPMS over 2K. $8 filter and I was on my way and have not had that problem since, of course I replace my filter about once a year now.

May sound stupid, but you have changed your fuel filter right? That is very similar to the way mine was acting when my filter went bad, I couldn't get the RPMS over 2K. $8 filter and I was on my way and have not had that problem since, of course I replace my filter about once a year now.


the filter should be ok. heck for 8 bucks i will try it.

I have found around here thay do volume work. get it in and out. You can get more cash back from gm. so if thay must spend time on a truck getting it fixed is a hasle. why spend a 4 hours to find a problem. when you have a computer that will tell you how to fix 5 cars in the same amout of time.


if your having problems with the abs. let the nhtsa know.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.9fee1be6b2b2000bc22cf37490008a0c/

anymore info on that recall for parking brakes on manual trucks mine has been fixed and contantly broken every three monthes?...jj

I work at a shop and we have 2 1997 Silverado with the ABS problem too. Looks like the recall only goes back to 99. But the symptoms are exactly what everyone here says. No ABS light on, scan tool picks up no codes, scan tool shows all Wheel Speed Sensors reading the same speed, and the ABS kicks in at very slow speed stops. I wonder if it is the same fix. At this point I don't care if it is in the recall, just want to know what fixes it.

Sounds like shit, tastes like shit, works like shit..... MUST BE SHIT!

GM's repair for the abs recall was to clean the speed sensors and it does not do a thing to fix it.I heard this,they will not replace the wheel bearings which is the true culprit under,is not covered under the recall.The best fix is to replace the front wheel bearings which come with a new ABS wheel speed sensor installed in the wheel bearing.My father had a problem with his 2002 GMC Dually and the left front wheel bearing was bad.The problem is gone ever since the left front wheel bearing was replaced.

Myself and a friend (different trucks) have experienced this low speed problem..both of us when manuvering into a parking space at a parking lot. I almost rearended the car in front of me..he ran up over the stop block..scared teh crap ou of both of us..less than 10 mph and buzz anti locks kick in on dry pavement and you cant stop. both of us had bad wheel bearings..the problem with the bearings is for another story..next to impossible to remove. old style much easier with bearing nut and tapered removable bearings.

Myself and a friend (different trucks) have experienced this low speed problem..both of us when manuvering into a parking space at a parking lot. I almost rearended the car in front of me..he ran up over the stop block..scared teh crap ou of both of us..less than 10 mph and buzz anti locks kick in on dry pavement and you cant stop. both of us had bad wheel bearings..the problem with the bearings is for another story..next to impossible to remove. old style much easier with bearing nut and tapered removable bearings.

I would like to look into this a little futher for you. In order to do some more research, it would be helpful to have your VIN and current mileage. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you in advance.

Tricia, GM Customer Service.

I would like to look into this a little futher for you. In order to do some more research, it would be helpful to have your VIN and current mileage. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you in advance.

Tricia, GM Customer Service.


this is an old post which is about the front hubs rusting causing the speed sensors to not produce sufficent voltage to properly report vehicle speed at less the 3-4 MPH..

this mandated NHTSA recall effected many trucks and other vehicles with these hubs. problem is GM did not properly correct this ABS brake failure with the recall work completed.....after the GM repair the problem soon returns !

this is an old post which is about the front hubs rusting causing the speed sensors to not produce sufficent voltage to properly report vehicle speed at less the 3-4 MPH..

this mandated NHTSA recall effected many trucks and other vehicles with these hubs. problem is GM did not properly correct this ABS brake failure with the recall work completed.....after the GM repair the problem soon returns !\

When I took mine in for it back in 2004 (?) they told me it would be one of two things that would happen. They would remove, clean and reassemble the current wheel speed sensors or they would totally replace both. I ended up getting two brand new ones. Just recently I'm finding out that not many places ever replaced them, everyone just got theirs cleaned. I haven't heard of one other person with full replacement, I must have hit the right GM dealer that day.

\

When I took mine in for it back in 2004 (?) they told me it would be one of two things that would happen. They would remove, clean and reassemble the current wheel speed sensors or they would totally replace both. I ended up getting two brand new ones. Just recently I'm finding out that not many places ever replaced them, everyone just got theirs cleaned. I haven't heard of one other person with full replacement, I must have hit the right GM dealer that day.

being in the rust belt these hubs rust so badly they may have damaged the cheaply made sensor when removing as the rust don't want to let go!

very easy to break the sensor on removal...need lots of time and some penetrating oil...dealerships don't have this time ,,,,costs too much ..

being in the rust belt these hubs rust so badly they may have damaged the cheaply made sensor when removing as the rust don't want to let go!

very easy to break the sensor on removal...need lots of time and some penetrating oil...dealerships don't have this time ,,,,costs too much ..


A couple years ago, a guy 2 cars in front of me decided to stop to make a left hand turn without getting into the left turn lane. Guy in front of my (Ford Ranger) slams brakes. So do I. He stopped. My anti-lock came on. A car was on my right side, so I had no where to go. I hit the Ranger. (BTW, his tailgate and bumper was the only damage. My Silverado had to be towed.) So of course I got a ticket, and tried to fight it but lost that.

Luckily, no one was hurt. But yeah, these ABS systems (the GM design) are dangerous. Afterwords I call GM customer service but they were NOT helpful and basically said that they've not had any complaints (this was about 07) and that I should take it to a certified mechanic.

A couple years ago, a guy 2 cars in front of me decided to stop to make a left hand turn without getting into the left turn lane. Guy in front of my (Ford Ranger) slams brakes. So do I. He stopped. My anti-lock came on. A car was on my right side, so I had no where to go. I hit the Ranger. (BTW, his tailgate and bumper was the only damage. My Silverado had to be towed.) So of course I got a ticket, and tried to fight it but lost that.

Luckily, no one was hurt. But yeah, these ABS systems (the GM design) are dangerous. Afterwords I call GM customer service but they were NOT helpful and basically said that they've not had any complaints (this was about 07) and that I should take it to a certified mechanic.

when vehicle failures occur you best notifiy NHTSA. with the accident report and personal injury documented this adds to the pressures to get these dangerous defects corrected...asking GM to take care of the damage etc.. because of design flaws you will quickly be directed to their legal dept...best not say anything to them cause they only care about GM not YOU !

when vehicle failures occur you best notifiy NHTSA. with the accident report and personal injury documented this adds to the pressures to get these dangerous defects corrected...asking GM to take care of the damage etc.. because of design flaws you will quickly be directed to their legal dept...best not say anything to them cause they only care about GM not YOU !

At the time I did do some research, but didn't find anything useful. Found a TON of complaints. Printed out what I found and took with me. Judge looked it over and it did help somewhat. I mainly called GM to complain, I didn't expect them to bend down and appologize or anything...

Now I notice that under my hood the brake lines are rusted badly. My wife has a 97 Jimmy and it's brake lines look very good. And it have about 20,000 more miles too. And my dad has the same year Silverado as I and his brake lines rusted through and failed. Complete brake loss.

At the time I did do some research, but didn't find anything useful. Found a TON of complaints. Printed out what I found and took with me. Judge looked it over and it did help somewhat. I mainly called GM to complain, I didn't expect them to bend down and appologize or anything...

Now I notice that under my hood the brake lines are rusted badly. My wife has a 97 Jimmy and it's brake lines look very good. And it have about 20,000 more miles too. And my dad has the same year Silverado as I and his brake lines rusted through and failed. Complete brake loss.

the ABS failures causing brake loss is well known , and documented. surprising that you did not find much about the cause or the GM TSB / recall..

brake lines are big trouble in the rust belt. the older vehicles had much better rust protection.. with the silverado and the other suv models the brake line running along the fuel tank rusts out..then the lines running to the ABS pump assy under the drivers seat and driver side wheel well...

these lines usually go after the warrantee ends just after the 3yr mark.

Here in upstate NY my shop does a ton of brake line work on cars/trucks over 7 years as a rule. The abs issue I played with 5 years ago with the mounting area on the front hubs rusting where the sensor fits causing the sensor to pull back slightly from the tone ring causing one or both ft wheels to go into unintended activation, I fixed quite a few by cleaning up that area under the sensor mount, during that time GM came out with a special policy in rust belt states to fix this condition.

At the time I did do some research, but didn't find anything useful. Found a TON of complaints. Printed out what I found and took with me. Judge looked it over and it did help somewhat. I mainly called GM to complain, I didn't expect them to bend down and appologize or anything...

Now I notice that under my hood the brake lines are rusted badly. My wife has a 97 Jimmy and it's brake lines look very good. And it have about 20,000 more miles too. And my dad has the same year Silverado as I and his brake lines rusted through and failed. Complete brake loss.

I would like to look into this further for you. Did you have a case through Customer Assistance? Do you have a case number? It may also be helpful to have your VIN and current mileage. Thank you in advance.

Tricia, GM Customer Service.

it happens everywhere to these vehicles.

I would also argue the point. Cars are lasting longer now do to improved coating. I remember back in the late 70`s seeing four year old trucks with the doors falling off them. Wooden flat beds replacing the steel box that was once there. I`d take the coast any day.
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Once while in Hawaii i took the road down past Diamondhead and in the local neighborhood I saw a econoline van in a side yard that the roof had rusted all the way around and fell onto the seats.
Bob B

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Once while in Hawaii i took the road down past Diamondhead and in the local neighborhood I saw a econoline van in a side yard that the roof had rusted all the way around and fell onto the seats.
Bob B


bob what does that have to do with GM hub/abs failures ?

ford is well known for all kinds of rust issues..not for abs failures though..

the fuel tanks on the old metal tanks on ford trucks did rust thru quite often here in the rust belt ...

too funny....