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Hard starting '97


drew300
05-02-2005, 08:17 AM
Hi Guys.
I need some thoughts.
My '97 astro runs well, but has a very hard time starting, except when i spray some starting fluid into the air cleaner area. However, if I start it every day, it works ok. (it's a 2nd vehicle)
The pump does run for the 2 seconds when the key is turned on.
I started the van and put in in the garage. I pulled the pump relay, and put an ampmeter across the contacts to get the pump running. It starts drawing about 4 amps, then ramps up to 7 amps after about 15 seconds. It does sound a little shakey, like a bad commutator, but smoothes out as the current increases. I re-did the ground wire, as it wasn't perfect. No change.
Then i borrowed a pressure guage. In the 2 seconds the pumps runs (with the key), I get 59 psi. My specs book calls for 53 to 61 psi. The van starts and runs fine, and with a blip of the gas pedal, pressure momentarily jumps to 62 or so. At idle I get a constant 52 psi. which is in spec. At turn off, I get 49 psi, which after about 6 minutes, was down to about 44 or so. I returned the guage.
I let the van sit for 2 days. No start. Someone here mentioned the need of a good battery. It was down to about 12.4 volts, not perfect, but the van cranks great. I put a charger on the battery for a couple of hours, and the van started.
To sum up. The pump sounds a little funny, but smoothes out, and does produce proper pressures. (but bleed down?)The battery is little iffy, but it cranks great, and runs the lights well. Being a used van i don't know how old the battery is.
Thoughts?
Thanks

astro fan
05-03-2005, 11:31 AM
The fact that its starts OK when you spray starting fluid in the intake leads me to believe the issue is fuel delivery. I'd start with the easiest.

Swap the fuel pump relay with the one for the AC (providing your AC works fine) If that does not improve starting, i'd replace the fuel filter.
A dirty fuel filter may still indicate a good pressure on gauge but it doesn't mean you get the required flow when you need it.

Good luck and let us know the outcome.

drew300
05-03-2005, 12:03 PM
The problem isn't the relay, as the pump runs for the 2 seconds after turning the key.
I've also "shorted" the correct pins on the relay socket to keep the pump running for approx 15 seconds while the pump "smoothes out" (sort of sounds like a dirty commutator) and the relay operates it the same, but for the 2 second command from the computer.
The van also will rank long enough to oil pressure for the fuel pump switch, but no start.
It starts immediately with the starting fluid, and runs fine after that. no hesitation, nothing, just fine.
I have replaced the fuel filter (cheap insurance), no change (but the filter was dirty).
This van is reliably hard to start, but since it builds proper pressure makes me wonder. As I said, the battery isn't "perfect", it's down a bit, but will crank the van for approx 30 seconds anyway. Tonight I'm going to charge it for a couple of hours, and if it starts right away, I'll assumme the battery is shot. (but it cranks and the lights look good)
But again, started everyday it also starts fine. (battery going down a bit in 2 days?)
Any other ideas will be welcomed
Thanks

drew300
05-04-2005, 10:48 AM
Ok, last night I checked the battery, it was 12.7 volts
I put the charger on it anyway, and obiviously didn't draw much. Atfer about 2 hours of charging, it wouldn't start, but cranked fine.
I Guess I've eliminated the battery.

Kings-x59
05-04-2005, 09:56 PM
You might just have a clogged fuel injector. The fuel pressure is getting there, it's just not making it into the engine.

drew300
05-05-2005, 08:04 AM
I think i have a few maginal things.
I spray "throttle body cleaner" into the intake for say 3 seconds. It starts immediately, and runs like a clock. Cold idle, hot idle, acceleration, everything is great, and i get about 24 mpg combined driving. I've got 6 injectors, 1 or 2 bad should show some faults, but probably start, all bad should show something when running i thought.
I phoned GM yesterday, and it does appear the Haynes manual is low in their suggested pressures. The GM rep also said it sounds like the pump, and that they've never had to replace a regulator.
I think i'll narrow to the pump.

Kings-x59
05-05-2005, 10:33 PM
drew, you might do a search on the forum with the keyword "fuel" and find DaveG_01's post. He pretty much ran through every thing in the fuel delivery system and came down to a part called a "pulsator" that solved his problem. His was a '95 which is close to your model year. It only stuck in my mind because he had such epic trials and tribulations.
If the pump doesn't do it keep this in mind.

drew300
05-09-2005, 07:59 AM
It now works.
I had borrowed a pressure guage and read 59 lbs. (in spec) No start.
Some-one in this forum said the Haynes manual was wrong, it needed more pressure. i phoned GM Service, and they said "minimum 60 lbs"
One pound difference! But mine ran great after it started.
So i bought a pump assembly. I read that I could buy only the pump, from a cavalier much cheaper. I got the assembly out, and figured it would take me several hours to change the pump, as well, I had an iffy fault. And I'd probably break the fuel gauge sensor to boot. The instructions with the pump said that the electrical connector at the pump is known to melt, so there's another potential problem for trouble-shooters.
So the new one is in, and it starts and runs just fine.
I don't know what the new pressure is, as I don't have a guage.
As a trouble-shooting hint, the old pump drew 4 amps, and ramped up to 7, over about 15 seconds.
The new one draws 9.5 to 10 amps, no ramp up.
I measured this easily at the pump relay. Pull the relay, and put the ampmeter from the upper left terminal, to the lower right terminal. It runs without the key on. Please double check your relay for pin configuration.
Also, some-one wrote in about keeping the tank over 1/4 full, to keep the pump cool. In this assembly, the pump works inside a well, which would continually get refilled by the return fuel from the regulator, so i don't think this is too much of a problem, but still good advice.
Thanks to everyone who helped me in this.

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