engines!!!!!!

Ok, this summer i decided to start a project and fix up a 1g 4g63 to a 2.4 stroker. Well, I went to the junkyard for an engine and they said they could have one there in an hour for $100. So I went back over there a little later and they had an engine that they said came from a 92 and looked like it was turboed because of the oil lines (7bolt). This is what they gave me. http://img10.echo.cx/img10/2472/holeinengine3gh.th.jpg (http://img10.echo.cx/my.php?image=holeinengine3gh.jpg)
Well, I said I didn't want that engine because of the bad bottom end so they said hey we have another one over here with a good bottom but bad top end. so now I have that engine and another 6 bolt 4g63 that they say has a bad top end. Here is a pic of that engine. http://img254.echo.cx/img254/6529/betterengine5or.th.jpg (http://img254.echo.cx/my.php?image=betterengine5or.jpg)
well what do you think I should do?? The 6 bolt is the engine I will probably be putting all the good parts on, unless i get another complete 1g. Even together they are missing so much stuff it is crazy. Do you think I should put the good bottom and good top ends together and get a rebuild kit or stroker or should I just wait until I can buy a complete 1g with a blown engine that way I know I have all the parts? My goal is to eventually have a 2.4 1g eclipse and I just wanted your input on what the best way to get there would be.
Sorry it is so long. Thanks, Derek

don't get either one unless you really want to get into some dirty work. wait and get a complete motor unless you like solving fitting problems and shit like that that come along with any type of swap.

i already have them both... 100 bucks

The motor with the good bottom end doesnt seem to be missing much from the pic. The belts are missing, but those and half of what you can see on that side of the motor will be getting replaced with new parts anyway. Timing belt cover isnt cheap at ~80 bucks, and its missing a cam gear. But you can get those things used from poeple all day.

Ok, I just finished completely taking the worse of the two engines apart and the bottom end in this thing was worse than I imagined. here is a pic of some of the random stuff I pulled out of it. http://img136.echo.cx/img136/1426/garbageenginestuff0pz.th.jpg (http://img136.echo.cx/my.php?image=garbageenginestuff0pz.jpg)
The connecting rod snapped in half, the connector on the other side of the connecting rod snapped in half, im not 100% sure what it's called but the bearing on the crankshaft snapped, #3 piston has scrapes on the top where it hit after the rod snapped, and more metal shavings than I can hold in my hand. So, all you turbo owners, be smart with your engines and try not to let this happen to you! here is a pic of the bottom end with nothing in it.
http://img175.echo.cx/img175/9171/bottomend0ry.th.jpg (http://img175.echo.cx/my.php?image=bottomend0ry.jpg)
Here is a pic of the head pretty much disassembled with the exeption of the valve springs.
http://img175.echo.cx/img175/8931/enginehead27vf.th.jpg (http://img175.echo.cx/my.php?image=enginehead27vf.jpg)
On the flip side you can see where the piston slapped the head. Hopefully by the end of the summer i will have something that at least resembles a decent engine.

i have a bottom end that looks something like that...but i have TWO nice 6" round holes on both sides...you can look through the block. i'll post pictures later.

Ok, i just thought i'd post an update. As of 5/2 the head is in the shop getting cleaned, pressure checked, and all that good stuff. I'm about to do a search on what I can do to maximize the power of my head... or you could just tell me here. I'm really doing this to get an engine more powerful than stock because from the beginning I just decided that wasn't good enough. well I was considering the stroker but I think now i'm just going to go with slightly larger pistons. Maybe .060 over or something. What do you guys think? How can i maximize my 2.0? (Or maybe 2.1 or 2.2 with the pistons). thanks

.60 over is alot. the farthest i think i would go is .40 over. you can put in dual springs and titanium retainers. upgraded cams and also port & polish the head. you can also take and put 95 pistons on 1g rods and have a nice 500+ hp combo. from there on it's just regular mods to make any car faster.

95 pistons? thats a lot of pistons for a 4cyl.... just kidding, what do you mean by 95 pistons? You mean of a 95 eclipse? Also, what do you mean by dual springs? And by 500+ hp engine you mean it can withstand that much hp? well, im not looking to turbo so I really want to put in things that will raise the hp, not only the things that will make it withstand the hp.

the 95 pistons are the year 1995, they can be machined to fit on 1g rods. this is an upgrade for some turbo cars. i thought yours was a turbo.

dual valve springs will help in higher revving. for a n/a.....cold air intake, bored throttle body, port & polish head, port match intake and exhaust manifolds, more aggressive camshafts, maybe some adjustable cam gears too. that should give you a little more power. you could also do a complete aftermarket exhaust system. header back with the cat removed. go to dsmtuners.com and follow the 1G n/a mod list.

Stock springs are good for 8500 comfortably (thats what I run). Only very well built trannys shift well at 9k, and it takes a mean setup to be able to make power up there even with big cams. Strokers are even less likely to be reved high. I dunno, I guess I was just never fan of expensive valve train parts, since I never had trouble with the stock parts even with over revs to over 10k (and that should say a lot, since I broke damn near everything else).

As of now I was thinking about getting the 2.4 crank and getting a rebuild kit with pistons that a .040 over. Thats all I have so far i really need to know what to do to the head that requires machine work seeing that that is the part of the engine I am working on right now. It is still at the machine shop and I need to tell him what he needs to do. I am going to do most of the "putting together" but I need him to do the machining. I think the next step will be port and polish, and then I will take it back when i get the pistons.

sorry I have another question I bought an engine stand and the engine I have only has one stud coming out of the bottom. I need to know what bolts to use to hold it up (how long and what size). can I use any of the bolts that came with the engine or do I have to buy some? thanks

if it threads into the block then find the right size bolt for that application, other than that, just take a normal bolt and put it through the mount and put a nut on the end.

ok, I got the engine on the stand with a bit of work (had to modify stand and then somehow flipped it up on the stand). http://img170.echo.cx/img170/8968/2ndengineonstand4ls.th.jpg (http://img170.echo.cx/my.php?image=2ndengineonstand4ls.jpg) And now I need to know what year this engine is so I can start buying parts for it. My other engine had a cage going across the entire crank and this one has like 3 separate pieces. This is a 6 bolt. The pickup screen is more flat and has a brace where the other 7 bolt had no brace and was more of a dome. The engine code is MB5157.http://img170.echo.cx/img170/2719/2ndengineblock0qp.th.jpg (http://img170.echo.cx/my.php?image=2ndengineblock0qp.jpg)

Also, to give an update of the latest plans, this is the list so far.
Pistons (.03-.04 over) Rings
Connecting rods
rod bearings Main bearings
2.4 Crank
Timing belts Accessory belts
Water pump
Spark plugs Spark plug wires
All gaskets
Header, and get the local shop to run the piping back from there
Lifters
CAI
around 600cc injectors
And that's it on the list. If there's anything else you think I should add tell me! I'm open to suggestions.

man i wish i could get engines for 100$ even if theyre broken the damn junkyards want 900+ usually and thats not with tranny either, stupid non turbo car.

Its hard to tell but if there are oil squirters then its a 1g turbo 90-92 motor. If not then its a 1g non turbo 90-92 motor. The 7 bolt motors have a 1 piece main bearing cap for the crank while the 6 bolt motors have 3 separate pieces thats why they look different. Another thing, did the oil pan on the 6 bolt have a place for the turbo return line? Should be a hold with a bolt hole on the left and right side of it. Thats another way to tell but its so easy to change pans you cant go buy just that. Look for the oil squirters, if you dont know what they are, take a pic of the crank in the block more head on with the #1 piston at top dead center there should be 1 squirter pointed at the pistons bolted into the block.

Edit: What kind of rods, pistons are you planning for the 2.3L kit your putting together? While your at it you might want to change out the springs and retainers in the head. Just my $.02~

Edit #2: I hope your not setting your heart on having a 2.4L motor. Cause .040 over and the 2.4 crank its going to make that happen. If you wanted a 2.4L motor you should have gotten a 2.4 block and crank because the deck hight on the 2.4 is taller than the 2.0 block.

I knew it wasn't going to be exactly 2.4l i'm not really interested in the actual displacement I just want to upgrade the engine with the 2.4 crank. I'm still searching and reading everything I can find to make sure which rods, pistons, crank to use so it may still be a while. The cheapest i've seen a 2.4 crank is 300 but I was thinking about trying to find one in a junkyard. The problem with that though is i'm not 100% sure what car to get it out of. This is looking more and more like a looooong project. Also, The good block I believe is from a n/t. Thanks for all the help so far guys.

one more thing with this project, I wanted to get the pistons .04 over and now im thinking about compression. with the longer stroke what will that do to the compression? I would think that it would raise it. So, I need to know what pistons to use/ or what to be looking for while searching for pistons. I was planning on getting some from ebay. Or possibly in a engine rebuild kit. I am ok withh upgrading my gas to better than reg unleaded but I dont want to have to put some rediculous octane gas in there either. I just basically need to know what a good compression ratio would be and how to achieve it. thanks

wow, wish i could get into a project like this...how much is this running you so far if you don't mind me asking. Keep posting stuff, i really don't know what it all means but i like to think i do...hmmm maybe someday this will all make sense when i try it myself :)

You will be buying aftermarket pistons anyway, so choosing the CR is easy. Most poeple do between 8.5 and 9.5:1. Some manufactures only offer one option off the shelf anyway. I personally like the magnus QPD (quench pad design) pistons based on personal experiences I talked about in other posts. Not much more than regular ross or wiseco pistons, but much more thought went into the design. I believe they offer then in 9 or 9.5:1.

expenses...
I have spent about $400 to get one good head so far. That has been for:
both engines $100
clean/pressure check both heads $74
valve job/deck head $200ish
valve stem seals $25

still to come:
crank $300?
2.0 car with blown engine if I can find it $300?
port and polish $?
rebuild kit $400ish
cam gear/maybe adjustable $?
Pistons if not with rebuild kit $?
connecting rods $?
a lot of other exterior things for engine (spark plugs/wires/etc.) $?
Theres a lot that I dont know as far as how much im going to spend but Ive got a sheet with everything on it that i'm keeping track of.
And don't forget powder coating the valve cover! $50

and my question was since the 2.4 crank will be in there would that not affect the compression ratio? I will probably go with 9.5:1

The cheapest i've seen a 2.4 crank is 300 but I was thinking about trying to find one in a junkyard. The problem with that though is i'm not 100% sure what car to get it out of. This is looking more and more like a looooong project. Also, The good block I believe is from a n/t. Thanks for all the help so far guys.

You can find the 2.4l in a bunch of different cars... lots of chryslers had them, mitsubishis, some hyundai, eagles? not sure aboud the eagles, can't remember the last year they were made. mid 90's 94-95-96 was the start of the 2.4l somewhere around there... The problem your going to have is most of the 2.4l were 7bolt (can you say flywheel?) shouldn't be much of a problem because the bolt pattern for the block/transmission was the same. But you really need to look out for spline size on your input shaft and bushing size, they were different.

Another thing you need to consider is engine direction. 1g 2.0 cams were drivers side and then they switched sides after 94 I think. I have a 95 and cams on passenger. most/all? of the 2.4l are passenger side. Shouldn't affect much, if anything because a crank really doesn't care which way the engine is facing.

Someone else made a comment about getting an engine for $100... I can get them at pull a part for $100 all day long... the trick being getting there first, they go quick.

Quick question though, why didn't you just get a 2.4 in the first place, block patterns the same

I think your a little confused about what year they were made... Here is the list of cars the 2.4l came in. Quite a few were actually 6 bolts. They started in 85. I believe only one of the 85-88 blocks will work in our cars but not positive on which. Anywhere from 89-present will work just fine. Here is the list of cars the 2.4l came in. Quite a few were actually 6 bolts but they are a little harder to find. The 85-92 blocks all have 6 bolt cranks in them. Late 92+ switched to 7 bolts, just like 4g63 motors.

Galant, Van 1985-88 2350cc G64B engine 2.4L F.I. 12-valve SOHC 4 - (121/2" bellhousing) 2.4L F.I. 12-valve SOHC 4 - (131/4" bellhousing)Van, Pickup 1989-92 2350cc G64B engine 2.4L F.I. 8-valve SOHC 4 2.4L F.I. 8-valve SOHC 4Pickup 1993-96 2350cc 4G64 engine 2.4L F.I. 8-valve SOHC 4Eclipse (97-98), Galant (95-98), Expo (93-95)
1993-98 2350cc 4G64 engine 2.4L F.I. 16-valve SOHC 4

I didn't find a 2.4 and I wasn't sure which cars to be looking for. I knew a 1g 2.0 would swap right into the place of another 1g 2.0, so that's what I was looking for. Also, I didn't know if a 2.0 head would fit on a 2.4 block. I didn't see the point in buying a whole 2.4 engine when the only thing I want is a crank. Anyway...

So you said a 2.4 crank from any 89+ car would work? OK thats a start, I would ask you what modifications I need to put it in there, but I'll just do some searching. Thanks for all the help so far.

Its basically a direct bolt in. If its a 6 bolt 4g64 crank then it has to go into a 6 bolt 4g64 block and so on with a 7 bolt. Yes a 2.0l head will directly bolt on any 4g64 motor. Some places wont allow you to only buy the crank so there for you might be stuck buying the whole motor unless you can find someone on either ebay, tuners or trader that has one forsale and get it off them fairly cheap. Its probably easier to just find a whole 2.4 motor and use parts from that. One of the best tuners in the state (MN) is using a 7 bolt 2.4l motor, nothing special, only has $150 into machining. Like I said he was trying to do his best with a budget. He recently just put down 694AWHP which is very respectable. Ran 10.4 @ 130 and ended up busting 4th gear in his full weight GSX, some of you have probably seen the video on tuners. He knows his shit and has a very nice shop. Just a thought when people start saying shit about all 7 bolts get CW. Plenty of people have gone very far on 7 bolts, just gotta know how to make them stay together. There is tricks to everything! Just keep reading and searching and you will know a shit load about this motor by the time you have it in your car. Good to see people learning and taking on big projects!

Good luck man.

Thanks again, I guess as soon as my head is 100% done I will try to get a 4g64 block. I guess I was hoping it was possible to put the crank in the 4g63 but I was prepared to hear otherwise. If it wasn't for the help of this site and some others, this would have been nearly impossible.
Now what about a tranny? would the 4g63 tranny bolt right onto the 4g64 block? thanks

Thanks again, I guess as soon as my head is 100% done I will try to get a 4g64 block. I guess I was hoping it was possible to put the crank in the 4g63 but I was prepared to hear otherwise. If it wasn't for the help of this site and some others, this would have been nearly impossible.
Now what about a tranny? would the 4g63 tranny bolt right onto the 4g64 block? thanks

yes, i believe it will. someone correct me if i'm wrong. the 2.0 turbo model transmission # is F5M33, the 2.4 is F5M31, the AWD is W5M33. i'm pretty sure all of these will bolt right up to a 4G64 block. they all have the same bell housings/mounts...

Just got the head back today... looks good although I still only have one cam gear. here's a shot from the top.
http://img156.echo.cx/img156/8185/topofhead7kn.th.jpg (http://img156.echo.cx/my.php?image=topofhead7kn.jpg)

Here is another pic where you can see where they decked it which means slightly raised compression (which is what I want)
http://img151.echo.cx/img151/2365/bottomofhead3fs.th.jpg (http://img151.echo.cx/my.php?image=bottomofhead3fs.jpg)

In the end it ended up costing me 200 for this complete head ($170 machine shop, $30 valve seals)

Now for the block!
What do you guys think rebuild 2.0 with .04 over or get the 2.4 in there?
Oh and one last question, if I did get the 2.4 block what timing belt would I use to get correct timing?

and you gotta love them sheets lol

why don't you go with a 2.4 bored .20 or .30 over? you're going to be re-building it anyways so you might as well bore it out too. plus you'll get way more airflow in a 2.4 and if you plan on slapping on a large turbo, you'll be better off in the long run.

No turbo... tooo much money... but if I did get a 2.4 It would be getting bored also.

well then it should be hands down 2.4. if you can find one that will fit in your car, why wouldn't you? i'm going to use the old hick saying "there's no replacement for displacement"

Yea now that the head is done i'll be searching for the block. I'm not sure the mounts will line up though... I'll have to wait and see.
My only concern is the timing. I'm not sure what timing belt to use and how to adjust it to get the timing right. Would I use the crank gear from the 2.0?

Since I will have this high compression ratio but not turbo should I get arp head studs? I have read the faq about it and still dont really get it... Do these take the place of the head bolts?

So let me get this straight... Your building a 2.3 stroker or possibly a 2.4 and are keeping in naturally aspirated? What is the point of that? Why not use a stock motor then... Cause if you plan to make in N/A then your going to need high compression pistons, then if you want to turbo it you wont be able to run very much boost because of the pistons being high compression.


If you think a turbo is to much money, wait until you need to start upgrading parts in the motor! You'd be best off getting a stock 2.0 turbo motor and putting a 50 trim on it. The car will have more power then it ever will N/A and it would probably be cheaper too, even after the turbo and fuel mods needed.


ARP head studs are about $10-15 more than stock head studs from the dealer. Its pretty pointless to buy the stock ones because they are known to stretch and not hold as much pressure. I'd just get the ARP's cause they are reuseable and can hold a lot more.

Yes they take place of the stock head bolts. You thread them into the block, put the head on, and tighten them down with a washer and nut combo in pattern with a tq wrench.

My :2cents:

Well I dont know anything about turbos and i've seen the list of things you have to have to put a turbo on a n/t engine. It seemed to be cheaper and easier to just put a 2.3 in there and not turbo it. I am considering turboing it but if I did then I wouldn't be boosting much anyway because I don't want to break an engine I just built.

Now that I realize you're planning to do this in a 1.8L Eclipse there are some things you need to thing about.

Well first off your going to need a new FWD tranny no matter what. Your 1.8l block is different then the 2.0 so therefor your tranny wont bolt up to a 2.0 or a 2.4 (same bolt pattern). So if you already have to do that, and your already spending the money on building the motor, why not spend a little extra and make it turbo. The outcome will be 100% better then a N/A 2.4l.

Also you are going to need to replace the whole wiring harness and computer because the sensors and computer are different for the 1.8l eclipse. You'd probably be better off buying a turboed eclipse/talon without a motor or with motor problems and building it from there. Probably cost less and it would be a hell of a lot easier to do.

expenses...

still to come:

2.0 car with blown engine if I can find it $300?

I am putting this engine into a 2.0 But if I get the 2.4 block will the mounts bolt up?

Yes they will bolt up. If your planning to keep it N/A then get a non turboed eclipse/talon. Personally I think your best bet is to turbo the 2.4 or 2.3 or 2.0 whatever you decide to go with. It will all work out better in the long run. I have never heard of anyone building a 2.3/2.4 N/A motor to put in their DSM.

Sure its unique and thats cool but your obviously building it for power. If not then why are you building it up? So it seems as you are, but you're not going to get the power you think you are when you are done. Then when the time comes to put a turbo on cause you want more power, you wont be able to achieve what you want cause of the high compression pistons making it harder to run good boost to get good power. Personally, I have not seen high compression pistons for a 2.3 stroker or a 2.4 motor as of yet. The highest I have seen is 9:1 and thats equal to stock pistons on a 1g non turbo. A 2g non turbo is 9.6:1 so its even less than that. If your looking for performance, you will probably want to go with a 10:1 or possibly even 11:1 compression ratio if you're going N/A.

I'm not saying you shouldnt do it but I just want you to think about what your saying by wording it "No turbo... too much money". Your going to be spending atleast $2k on the motor if you do it right, only to have it N/A. About finding a 2.0 car with only a bad motor for $300 is going to be a hard one to locate unless you find a moron. BTW... You didnt mention any of your goals in this thread I dont believe. Atleast I dont remember reading them. What are they? 150-175hp? Maybe a high 15 second 1/4 time? If thats all you want then by all means go the N/A route. I dont want you to be one of those people that think N/A cars are the shit and it will be so fast then come to find out and embarrass yourself in the long run. Also, just because the car will be N/A, dont think its going to make it more reliable. People always assume that too.

Its all up to you but just realize what you are putting your money towards before you jump too far into it and realize that you maybe made a bad choice. In either decision you make I hope it works out for you and you succeed. Good luck and I'll try to help ya out with whatever you need.

Well I am a high school student with really limited funds. If I did decide what to do (turbo, 2.4) Then it couldn't be both because that would be to much money. I hear what you are saying about the turbo. I guess If I want 250hp then I will have to get the turbo. I will look into it and see what I can get the parts for it for. It's either going to be 2.3 or turbo. sounds like an easy decision I know. Now that I think about it i'm thinking more and more turbo. although I know absolutely nothing about them. Like you said I should put a 50 trim on it... what is that? If I stay 2.0 and go turbo then I want to boost about 12 psi. If I do go turbo i'll be getting titanium springs and retainers. I don't know we'll have to see what happens. I'm going to tennessee for two weeks on the 23rd so that might sset me back.

After reading this, I have no idea what you are trying to do. Are you trying to stroke a 2.0 non-turbo? Or put a different head on a 2.4? You are going to spend way to much money and never be happy with your car if you don't have a clear goal and a way to achieve that goal. You can't really raise displacement significantly by boring the block. It's used to put a new hone on a block. the overbore sizes are in thousandths of an inch (or metric). What you should do is figure what you want out of the engine (a little bump in power or a giant killer?) and then plan the engine accordingly. Don't just keep buying parts from the junkyard.

In the beginning I was going to put a 2.4 crank in the 4g63. Then it changed to putting a 2.0 head on a 2.4 block. Now I am choosing between that and turboing the 2.0. I want somewhere between 250-300hp. Since a 2.4 won't get that, now I will probably turbo the 2.0. I'm doing the build in stages because of the income problem. The head is done, now I am building the block, and then I will get the turbo parts together.

My dad found a 92 talon tsi!!! Looks like I found what I have been praying for. It really sucks though because now I am going to Tennesee so I can't get it now! I am really praying that it will be there when I get back. More importantly, It has everything I need to get started with a turbo. It doesn't run because the head is messed up but since I have one I could get it up and running in no time! I'm really excited. It is cheap enough that with one more paycheck and what I have saved up I can buy it. If it does work out now I have even bigger plans because I don't have to buy the turbo and related parts. Hopefully I get it and then I will be aiming for around the 350hp mark.