Turbo H22a hatch owns another DSM...

Pretty sure the civic is running a H22a w/ junkyard turbo setup. I've seen his videos of him beating dsms on different sites. The mods for the dsm include...

"-bolt block, machined .020 over, decked, balanced internals, polished crank, 2g pistons fitted on machined 1g big rods, Balance shaft removal, Snky Camz, clevite 77 bearings, revised lifters, new valves, seats, springs, ARP\'s. Small 16g, 2g T-body elbow, hallman MBC, R&R racings 3 inch exhaust, Hybrid Connection o2 housing, Denzo 660\'s and zee 1g DSM link for manegment"

The dsm was running at around 18 psi and has a stripped down interior. It was a good race.

http://www2.wnydsm.com/members/hybrid_hatch/TurboHatchvsDSM.mpg

looked like they both topped out at 75mph :thumbsdow
neither looked to be pulling that hard.....

those look like two REALLY slow cars. they don't even look like they're picking up any speed. :shrug:

On the last run you can hear the tires break loose on the hatch when they go, so I guess there is a little acceleration going on...but I agree ^^^ on the video the cars appear to be moving slowly.

On the last run you can hear the tires break loose on the hatch when they go, so I guess there is a little acceleration going on...but I agree ^^^ on the video the cars appear to be moving slowly.
my jeep does chirps 10000X better then that so unless its fast...

wait probbly compared to those cars...

my jeep does chirps 10000X better then that so unless its fast...

wait probbly compared to those cars...

Are you saying your Jeep can beat a turbo h22 hatch? What kinda mods you got?

Are you saying your Jeep can beat a turbo h22 hatch? What kinda mods you got?
I'm saying they don't look fast at all.

and whats in my jeep its enough to stomp any honda i've run into so far

I'm saying they don't look fast at all.

and whats in my jeep its enough to stomp any honda i've run into so far

OK, let me reword that...

Just by guessing I'd say a turbo h22 hatch can do at worst a mid 13 second 1/4 mile...can your Jeep beat?

On another note after viewing this video again I don't think there's any turbo in that hatch, I doubt it's even an h22 - the exhaust sounds too stock to be a turbo anything, the mod list says he's got a 3 inch exhaust. You never even hear VTEC before he changes gears. There's no way that's an h22.

It's definently turbo, you can hear it spool up at least once in the video, and it does sound like an h22a. If he's using a "junkyard turbo kit" then he could just have a small ass turbo like a T25 or something close to that. In that case, it wouldn't be all that much faster than just the stock engine. With such a small turbo on a big engine, he'd be making more torque than hp. And mid 13's is not the worst he could be doing, he could still be doing mid 14's if he isn't getting traction (I know this for a fact). Not all turbo setups are created equal.

Well I don't own a turbo so I wouldn't really know, but I don't hear it...also, listen to the engine as he's changing gears, it's not revving to 7500 rpm- if it is an H22, he's shifting a 6k or something. H22s start SCREAMING when VTEC hits at 5k and continues to scream loudly up to redline - I just don't hear that happening here. This is just my opinion, but I know the sound of my H22 very well, and that don't sound like it.

OK, let me reword that...

Just by guessing I'd say a turbo h22 hatch can do at worst a mid 13 second 1/4 mile...can your Jeep beat?

On another note after viewing this video again I don't think there's any turbo in that hatch, I doubt it's even an h22 - the exhaust sounds too stock to be a turbo anything, the mod list says he's got a 3 inch exhaust. You never even hear VTEC before he changes gears. There's no way that's an h22.
Neither of those cars could seem to past 60MPH. so I'll be cocky and say yea :iceslolan :iceslolan

It sounded turbo to me.

maybe it was a turbo b7 with a prelude sticker? If thats what h22s boosted do then thats sad or they just wern't stepping on it.

I hear what you're saying. But if it was a small turbo, It'd peak power before it hit readline. My friend has a h22a turbo in his Civic, and he used to run a T25. You could never even hear vtec kick in, and he shifted around 6K (because that's right around where the turbo maxed out). But now that he's got a bigger turbo (t3/t4 turbonetics from Drag), you can hear the vtec a lot louder; the car sounds mean as hell now. I could only hear that guys turbo spool at the beginning of the second race (or at least I think it is the turbo). He could even just have a really quiet bov too, cause I didn't hear it once in the vid. But don't get me wrong, I'm not positive that this guy even has an h22 or turbo; I'm just saying it is possible.

I hear what you're saying. But if it was a small turbo, It'd peak power before it hit readline. My friend has a h22a turbo in his Civic, and he used to run a T25. You could never even hear vtec kick in, and he shifted around 6K (because that's right around where the turbo maxed out). But now that he's got a bigger turbo (t3/t4 turbonetics from Drag), you can hear the vtec a lot louder; the car sounds mean as hell now. I could only hear that guys turbo spool at the beginning of the second race (or at least I think it is the turbo). He could even just have a really quiet bov too, cause I didn't hear it once in the vid. But don't get me wrong, I'm not positive that this guy even has an h22 or turbo; I'm just saying it is possible.
but you think it would choke it that badly?

honestly that pull looked like the pull from an a6 not what i'd expect from a boosted lude.

I heard a bov once in the vid from the honda in car.

Yeah it could definently choke that bad. My friends Civic only made 200whp, and he was running 16psi. And even though it had more hp and tq after the turbo, the power band was garbage and the car felt faster and like it had more pull when it was just the stock engine. Now with his new turbo, it's a night and day difference. Even now just him running 6psi untuned he keeps up with another friend's wrx (stage 2 turbo upgrade, front mount IC, and some upgraded engine management system); up until 4th but only lost by 2 cars. He never would have gotten even close with the old turbo. Also I should mention that the h22 has 9:1 compression, so that might be a factor and make my assumption incorrect.

I wouldn't pick on any hatch or CRX myself no matter what I'm boosting, considering those cars weigh as much as boxes-o-cereal.

That video seemed...strange. A 1G DSM at 18 psi with a 16G turbo should have found a lot more power at the top end, I'm not sure if his fuel management was set right. The Honda didnt sound right either...exhaust tone was too stock to be turbo...? It was a kind of a wierd race though... too short and both cars really did seem slow. I wouldnt say the DSM got owned, because they both seemed so sluggish. Wouldnt' call that a good race IMO.

Well T25's don't make good turbo's on anything. For a decent junkyard turbo you can find plenty of straight T3's out there, good enough for 250-300 WHP.
I've never seen a honda make more peak torque than peak HP.

Well T25's don't make good turbo's on anything.

I wouldnt say that...a lot of people immediatly discredit the T-25 since it is smaller than a lot of upgraded setups. I think T-25s are excellent streetable turbos for daily drivers, and are small enough to be run safely with decent boost on most cars, with practically no lag. The Mazda 3s have them, the 2G GSX and GS-Ts had them, SR20DET SE-Rs got em, and they are the primary turbos most 240SX people go for. They can put down sizeable power with enough boost. I was doing 17-19 psi on my T-25 for about 2 months (though it *did* blow soon after, i wasnt being too smart about it :icon16: ), and the car was fast enough to make people think I had actually upgraded my turbo.

For people not planning on going all out, and building their engines, T-25s are the best bang for the buck IMO for running boost on stock internals. Ofcourse, no ones arguing that with a stronger internal setup would be ideal of 16Gs and so forth, but I had a lot of fun with my T-25. :2cents:

I wouldnt say that...a lot of people immediatly discredit the T-25 since it is smaller than a lot of upgraded setups. I think T-25s are excellent streetable turbos for daily drivers, and are small enough to be run safely with decent boost on most cars, with practically no lag. The Mazda 3s have them, the 2G GSX and GS-Ts had them, SR20DET SE-Rs got em, and they are the primary turbos most 240SX people go for. They can put down sizeable power with enough boost. I was doing 17-19 psi on my T-25 for about 2 months (though it *did* blow soon after, i wasnt being too smart about it :icon16: ), and the car was fast enough to make people think I had actually upgraded my turbo.

For people not planning on going all out, and building their engines, T-25s are the best bang for the buck IMO for running boost on stock internals. Ofcourse, no ones arguing that with a stronger internal setup would be ideal of 16Gs and so forth, but I had a lot of fun with my T-25. :2cents:

The tiny turbine housing chokes off the engine at higher RPM's big time. A T25 is too small for anything more than a 1.5L. You are completely doing away with the fact you have a 16 valve head with such a restrictive turbine housing that can't flow for beans. Bare minimum you need a .48 A/R housing, and thats still small. With my 8 valve engine I can spool the stock T3 turbo to full boost at 2000 RPM which is WAY too small for my particular setup. For optimum power for each setup you want a turbo that spools to full boost somewhere in between 3000-4000 RPM. My super 70 spools to full boost at 3200 RPM.
The best thing about the T3 turbo is the universal flange it had, you can get almost any aftermarket intake for anything with a standard T3 flange.

The tiny turbine housing chokes off the engine at higher RPM's big time.

A T-28 shares the same housing as the T-25, with a larger compressor wheel, and is as effective as a 16G on 4G63 DSMs... holds boost rock solid till red line..no?

A T-28 shares the same housing as the T-25, with a larger compressor wheel, and is as effective as a 16G on 4G63 DSMs... holds boost rock solid till red line..no?

You can't honestly tell me you think a T28 is gonna produce as much power as a 16G??? Also, I'm not just talking compressor sides, I'm mostly talking exhaust turbines. The T25 has an inheritly small housing and the backpressure at high boost levels is obscene.
Boost holding solid til redline doesn't mean a turbo is under or oversized. I ran a mitsubishi 13c turbo on my engine for a little while and boost was rock solid on that too LOL. I've had 4 different turbo's on my car, various sizes and all held boost ''rock solid''. The 13c, 50 trim T3, 70 trim T3 w/.48 turbine housing, and the 70 trim with the .63 turbine.

You can't honestly tell me you think a T28 is gonna produce as much power as a 16G???

Its not what I *think*. Opinions and sunjectivism have little room in a technical discussion.

I got this off the net in a quick search, though this has been discussed several times in the DSM forums . Check out turbochargers.com to authenticate this, or any other on-line turbo shop such as RRE, SBR, FP, etc. I'm not doubting your claim on having run numerous turbos on your car(s). Just trying to sort out something that the most experienced turbo DSM guys have said, versus what your saying about the T-28.

A standard T-28 (not Big, not Killer, just the base) flows 500 CFM with stock housing and is rated at 300hp. Its a good upgrade for DSMers because it looks exactly stock in the engine bay (so no hassle from cops), bolts up without any sort of adapter kit, and puts down what a 16G puts down in terms of power.

A TD05H 16G (not Big, not EvoIII, just base) flows 505 CFM, and is rated at 320 hp. Different housing altogether, pretty much the same rating. Slightly cheaper than the T-28 even after you include all the adapter hardware, and a nice thing to see when you pop your hood open.

Both turbos flow almost the same CFM. Both turbos cost almost the same price for parts and labor. Both have almost the same numbers as far as performance goes. People who have run both claim there is no *noticable* difference when driving their car...both are said to spool and almost the same time, and deliver the same power...Ive never run a T-28 or a 16G to compare them myself side-by side. Have you by any chance?

My :2cents:.

OK my bad I've been talking the big 16G this whole time. However, back to the T28 thing here....In 1990 some turbo dodge's received T25 turbo's. There is an upgrade to a T28 wheel and clipped turbine wheel. I've seen the dyno results and he got 5-6 HP from it. The turbine housing is too much of a cork to make any more power! Simple as that. You could put a 20G wheel in the compressor but if you still have the stock turbine housing your power gain is little to none.
For my crowd, anything smaller than a T3 is shunned because even our stock turbo is a T3 garrett.
Since you have a T28, what RPM do you get full boost at? Was your turbine wheel clipped? Stock size turbine housing?

The H22a you were calling slow is running 6psi w/ a T3/T4 54 trim turbo on stock internals and he did a cheap, half-assed tune.

Here is a vid of it pulling away from another modded Ecplise and blowing his motor. He has a hard time pulling down low. Guessing spool times or traction.
http://www2.wnydsm.com/members/hybrid_hatch/hatchblowingup.mpg

So, yeah. Remember to tune your cars when you turbo them, guys. Even though his build was cheap, he now has to start over(hopefully better) The Eclipse he was racing blew his engine the month before. They just got it finished and this happens.

The H22a hatch ran 13.8@100.8 N/A.

Here's a pic...
http://img2.uploadimages.net/show.php?img=161386garage.jpg

Hey PWMAN, did you get my messages regarding the "retarded turbo"? (lol)

If you guys think that a h22 turbo hatch would run 13's your out of your mind. I'll race that h22 turbo hatch for pinks with a non-turbo h22 =]

wow, great post... (note the sarcasm?) break the rules and revive an old thread only to talk shit? come on man....if youre gonna break the rules at least do it with class... oh and welcome to AF

If you guys think that a h22 turbo hatch would run 13's your out of your mind. I'll race that h22 turbo hatch for pinks with a non-turbo h22 =]

Soooo, did you happen to notice this thread is a year and a half old??? But your comment is retarded so I have to reply. A turbo H22 swap hatch running 13.8's is PATHETIC, obviously very bad tune. I'm not sure why you think that 13's is impossible, that thing should be running 12's with slicks, LSD, a good tune, and decent boost. A hatch weighs like nothing, so with 2.2 liters in it and on top of that a turbo, it makes for a powerful setup thats capable of a lot faster than 13.8. There's no replacement for displacement.

"There's no replacement for displacement."

Haha that quote does not belong in a honda forum.

sorry for the asshole comments.....bad day and tired of dealing w/ retards that only can have a V8. As you can tell i didnt really read the post, just part of it and then your response....no hard feelings i hope

"There's no replacement for displacement."

Haha that quote does not belong in a honda forum.

Really? Than why do I hear a lot in this forum about boring and stroking to get more cubes?
I do not have V8 mentality, isn't that obviously since I own a turbo 4 banger pushing 300 WHP? No replacement for displacement is 100% true. You guys turbo a 1.8L, 10 PSI and get 250-300 WHP out of it. Throw that 10 PSI at a 4.6L ford engine and watch 500 WHP come out. Throw 10 PSI at a decent 454 chevy and watch 800+ numbers pop out with ease, all with stock head castings and no major work done.. Obviously there are a lot of variables, a larger turbo is needed for the added displacement, ETC.
Same thing goes with N20, for some reason they think that is a replacement for displacement. Well, everything has to be the same with each engine...you throw a 100 shot at at B18 and say it makes as much power as a 4.6 ford, what the hell throw a 100 shot on that engine watch what happens.
Schister66- OK so you are running 12's, big deal. I can make an all motor 350 chevy V8 for HALF the money you have in your engine and car and make it run 11's. Build that engine for turbo, and run 9's for still less money than yours I 100% gaurantee it. It cost me about 6000 dollars to get my car where I'm at now, 300 WHP and low 12's on drag radials (I have an 8V head though, a 16 valve would make about 400 WHP with the same setup I have). Give me 4000 bucks and for a chevy 350 turbo build I can make atleast 800 HP with it. No it will not get good gas mileage, no it will not run very nice, but thats not the argument here. I'm talking about sheer power, there is no replacement for displacement, period.
You can make a mustang and camaro handle corners well also, although you will have a stiff ride. And LS1 camaro's have been known to get into the 20's MPG on the highway, 4.6 mustangs can too. I am not defending V8 cars to call 4 bangers crappy, again I own one myself and do not even own a V8. But a fact is a fact, it's easier to make bigger power with more displacement.

http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/watermark.php?file=/503/250018awesome_thread.jpg

Reviving an old thread is bad enough - turning it into an import vs. domestic battle is retarded.

Dont lie to yourself...you dont need a big engine to go fast. I dont have a V8 and i can still run in the 12's. Now i know what you're thinking..."blasphemy", but let me tell you, four and six cylinders can make good power if you do the right things to them. I dont conform to the V8 mentality and generally the ones who do are close-minded and ignorant. You can continue ranting ignorantly about V8 power and how my Japanese car is evil if you wish, but the fact is, i can get good gas mileage, make nearly 350whp (wheel horse power...fyi), take a corner and still keep resale value which is something that most American cars tend to lack.

If you have anything more to say about this subject, i suggest you keep it to yourself.


How was I "ranting ignorantly about V8 power and how your Japanese car is evil" Who ever said you weren't making power? You are just looking for an argument. Do you have some kind of napoleon complex because you have a fast 4 banger. I just spent near 20,000 on a Japanese car so I don't need to prove anything to you about my appreciation for a well designed car. Don't talk down to me and don't be a dick. I just thought it was ironic that "no replacement for displacement" was being used on a 2.2 liter motor. I didn't even say anything negative.

Really? Than why do I hear a lot in this forum about boring and stroking to get more cubes?
I do not have V8 mentality, isn't that obviously since I own a turbo 4 banger pushing 300 WHP? No replacement for displacement is 100% true. You guys turbo a 1.8L, 10 PSI and get 250-300 WHP out of it. Throw that 10 PSI at a 4.6L ford engine and watch 500 WHP come out. Throw 10 PSI at a decent 454 chevy and watch 800+ numbers pop out with ease, all with stock head castings and no major work done.. Obviously there are a lot of variables, a larger turbo is needed for the added displacement, ETC.
Same thing goes with N20, for some reason they think that is a replacement for displacement. Well, everything has to be the same with each engine...you throw a 100 shot at at B18 and say it makes as much power as a 4.6 ford, what the hell throw a 100 shot on that engine watch what happens.
Schister66- OK so you are running 12's, big deal. I can make an all motor 350 chevy V8 for HALF the money you have in your engine and car and make it run 11's. Build that engine for turbo, and run 9's for still less money than yours I 100% gaurantee it. It cost me about 6000 dollars to get my car where I'm at now, 300 WHP and low 12's on drag radials (I have an 8V head though, a 16 valve would make about 400 WHP with the same setup I have). Give me 4000 bucks and for a chevy 350 turbo build I can make atleast 800 HP with it. No it will not get good gas mileage, no it will not run very nice, but thats not the argument here. I'm talking about sheer power, there is no replacement for displacement, period.
You can make a mustang and camaro handle corners well also, although you will have a stiff ride. And LS1 camaro's have been known to get into the 20's MPG on the highway, 4.6 mustangs can too. I am not defending V8 cars to call 4 bangers crappy, again I own one myself and do not even own a V8. But a fact is a fact, it's easier to make bigger power with more displacement.

You don't think its ironic that "no replacement for displacement" was being used to reference a 2.2 liter motor? I never said it wasn't fast. Everyone around here is so sensitive about their little motors, why? Its small, get over it. That doesn't mean it doesn't mean it doesn't have power.

Aye. This gets any more heated and It's getting locked. Keep it friendly or DO NOT post.

[img]
Reviving an old thread is bad enough - turning it into an import vs. domestic battle is retarded.

My intention was not import vs domestic, if you think so than please just take it as me talking about my own car. That would make it domestic vs domestic then.

You don't think its ironic that "no replacement for displacement" was being used to reference a 2.2 liter motor? I never said it wasn't fast. Everyone around here is so sensitive about their little motors, why? Its small, get over it. That doesn't mean it doesn't mean it doesn't have power.

Not when a hatch comes with 1.6. It's far easier to get the bigger power out of the bigger engine. The only case where it wouldn't be is that the H22 doesn't have near the aftermarket for it as something like a B18. But, if everything was equal on both engines, more cubic inches makes more power. Like I said, I own a 4 banger myself for fuel mileage mostly, and it's pretty fast. But I don't fool myself because I know any idiot can build an older nova with a chevy 350 and make 100 more HP than me for half the price I did it with and be faster than me not even turbo.

---previous post edited---

Not when a hatch comes with 1.6. It's far easier to get the bigger power out of the bigger engine. The only case where it wouldn't be is that the H22 doesn't have near the aftermarket for it as something like a B18. But, if everything was equal on both engines, more cubic inches makes more power. Like I said, I own a 4 banger myself for fuel mileage mostly, and it's pretty fast. But I don't fool myself because I know any idiot can build an older nova with a chevy 350 and make 100 more HP than me for half the price I did it with and be faster than me not even turbo.

Well what you are saying is certainly correct, I certainly more than understand the concept of what you are saying. I was just being light hearted, I still think there is a certain degree of humor here. Come on.... yeah 2.2 liter no replacement for displacement....... not even a little funny sounding? I guess I give up if nobody else can find any humor in that. I was certainly not trying to offend anybody.

I was certainly not trying to offend anybody.


Well you did.....














but that's because i didn't read the rest of the thread....:icon16:

Well what you are saying is certainly correct, I certainly more than understand the concept of what you are saying. I was just being light hearted, I still think there is a certain degree of humor here. Come on.... yeah 2.2 liter no replacement for displacement....... not even a little funny sounding? I guess I give up if nobody else can find any humor in that. I was certainly not trying to offend anybody.
:smokin:
I understand where you are coming from, because 99% of the time you guys battle ''V8 only'' mentality. I was never offended, only a bit flustered because it seemed no one was getting the point of what I was saying! But like I said I understand why you were aggrivated because you thought I was just another one of those V8 only guys.

:smokin:
I understand where you are coming from, because 99% of the time you guys battle ''V8 only'' mentality. I was never offended, only a bit flustered because it seemed no one was getting the point of what I was saying! But like I said I understand why you were aggrivated because you thought I was just another one of those V8 only guys.

Hey I am not out to argue, I love my V8s as well. I play both sides of this one.

Hey I am not out to argue, I love my V8s as well. I play both sides of this one.

that's a good way to be...i love my V8s too, but i dont have one because it isn't practical for me to have a 500whp V8 not only for insurance, but for gas mileage too....my GSR still gets about 25/35 mpg :D

Well I don't have one anymore either, I was having issues with it. I would certainly get another one in the future but the cost of maintenance was killing me. I traded it in on the 07 civic. Awesome car. Sure its not going to be as fast, but its certainly overall a better car in my opinion.

welcome to the dark side....

Definatly a sad race, and if those mods are right on that DSM then someone set it up terrible. My car isnt even that built and ive never had a problem with any little turbo hondas. I think the big deal is that everyone wants to turbo thier civic when in all reality most of them cant set it up right. As a DSMr i will give this vid a 2 :)