ponie or muscle

sorry for bringing up an old subject but i just pulled a day off of my one a day car calender and poof there was a 1969 camaro. it raised my brow when i read the notes on it, i already new that in 1969 camaro came out with a car that was the fastest quarter mile car that left a factory till then and it made me want to post this to give you another persons aspects as to wether or not it was ever considered a muscle car

This was one of the quickest and most valuable
muscle cars ever made. Although it looked
like a regular Camaro, it was one of only 69 made
with a mostly aluminum 427-cubic-inch v-8 that
was conservatively rated at 430 horsepower. That
engine alone added $4160 to the bottom line,
almost double the price of a stock Camaro

so not that it would change anyones veiws but hey, just a little annecdote i wanted to share

They're talking about the ZL-1 Camaro. Only 69 units were made in '69 and only 3 of those came with COPO options. The car was pretty much race ready from the factory and was freakin fast. It was one of the fastest and quickest cars to come from the factory back in the '60s.

the calander mislabled it. the camaro was a pony car. even the vaunted ZL1. This was because the car was smaller overall than its muscle car bretheren. its dimentions and weight were smaller than that of say the A and G body cars.

so is there a rule book on qualifications of a muscle car???
and a quote from carol shelby himself when asked if he thought the muscle car era would ever come back he replied " its already here but now its in the form of a turbo charged civic" so i think muscle car must refer to a car with alot of muscle and that is what sounds like muscle to me
430 moderate horse meaning hey its got atleast that y7a know

Does it really matter??? It goes fast, it handles, it is fun to drive.

who cares if it is called a MUSCLE car or a PONY car. you should be looking up crap to make more power and go faster... Not spending hours and hours of time trying to find a reason to call the camaro a Muscle car. :icon16:

well it is an issue of semantics, ill admit the new civic is the revival of the car culture, but they are not muscle cars. Muscle cars were (according to most, albeit not all) family cars turned high performance. The GTO was a Tempist that they dropped a massive engine into, a four speed and posi rear end. The chevelle was a malibu, and so on and so forth. They were big family cars with full sized back seats, full size trunks, and huge powerplants that put the power down through a high performance drivetrain. The civic is not a muscle car because its not that way from the factory, the turbo civics are hot rods to be sure, but not muscle cars. The camaro and mustang are pony cars because they had no base model insipration, they were designed from the tires up to be sports cars that were lighter, handled better, and were smaller. does that make a bit more sense?

oh and the ZL1 made approximately 550hp in reality, the 430hp rating was laughable.

i think the mustang frame accually came from a falcon

fair enough, most of the camaro engines were available in other cars, and even the mustang shared parts, but what im saying is that the mustang is not a performance edition falcon, like a "falcon SS" or anything like that. Its its own new car.

i think the mustang frame accually came from a falcon

The chasis did but not the frame work like around the doors and stuff.

fair enough, most of the camaro engines were available in other cars, and even the mustang shared parts, but what im saying is that the mustang is not a performance edition falcon, like a "falcon SS" or anything like that. Its its own new car.

So were several of the muscle cars. I understand though what you're thinking because I thought the same way. The thing is the Mustang, Camaro, Firebird, and the Corvette, in a way, are as muscle as muscle cars can get.

the malabu was also originaly only a trim option on the chevelle and later the chevelle became the malabu but i will agree that the chevelle was originally a family car that became a "Muscle car" by adding a large high output engine. I like the definition that a muscle car is a familly car with a large engine also

They're talking about the ZL-1 Camaro. Only 69 units were made in '69 and only 3 of those came with COPO options. The car was pretty much race ready from the factory and was freakin fast. It was one of the fastest and quickest cars to come from the factory back in the '60s.

Nice Picture....sick...