Capacitor war...

I was wondering if anyone was interested in arguing points for or against end line capacitors. I happen to be for them, but ive heard plenty of ppl against and I didnt find a deticated thread / poll to the argument....

Where's the option for "they have their use, but only in 1% of the systems that have them are they really needed". Their only real value is to back up a strong electrical system so it can respond quicker to current demands, NOT to cover up a weak electrical system, there are other devices that are cheaper and much more efficient for that purpose. There are other things that should come first before a cap, things like a new battery, alternator, or better wiring that can actually help the electrical system instead of just covering up problems. Only after all of that is taken care of should a cap be considered IMO.

Where's the option for "they have their use, but only in 1% of the systems that have them are they really needed". Their only real value is to back up a strong electrical system so it can respond quicker to current demands, NOT to cover up a weak electrical system, there are other devices that are cheaper and much more efficient for that purpose. There are other things that should come first before a cap, things like a new battery, alternator, or better wiring that can actually help the electrical system instead of just covering up problems. Only after all of that is taken care of should a cap be considered IMO.

Tis true! Also, chances are...when you complete those other electrical system upgrades...you won't need a capacitor.

In all honesty, the only purpose a capacitor really serves is smoothing out voltage ;) The MAIN REASON to use a capacitor is to filter out the AC component that the DC current flows on.

NG

Tis true! Also, chances are...when you complete those other electrical system upgrades...you won't need a capacitor.

In all honesty, the only purpose a capacitor really serves is smoothing out voltage ;) The MAIN REASON to use a capacitor is to filter out the AC component that the DC current flows on.

NG

..... except car amps don't pull straight DC from the battery. Modern amps use DC to DC switching power supplies operating at like +50Khz. The cap can help smooth this out - but they are rather expensive, so I would try one first to see if it actually helps.

And if you had read the "newbie thread" you will know not to get one with a DVM (voltmeter) on the top

..... except car amps don't pull straight DC from the battery. Modern amps use DC to DC switching power supplies operating at like +50Khz. The cap can help smooth this out - but they are rather expensive, so I would try one first to see if it actually helps.

And if you had read the "newbie thread" you will know not to get one with a DVM (voltmeter) on the top

I will personally NEVER use on. I'm stating what a VALID use for one is, which I still don't agree with. Throwing the information out there...if you will...

It's from:
http://forums.caraudio.com/vb/showthread.php?t=84120

NG

hey. i just have a 1 farad cap so that i can save my alternator (i'm kinna hard on them). I also hate that rev-bounce that you get when your idling and you system hit HARD, found that caps stop that. I guess its all personal preference, really.

hey. i just have a 1 farad cap so that i can save my alternator (i'm kinna hard on them). I also hate that rev-bounce that you get when your idling and you system hit HARD, found that caps stop that. I guess its all personal preference, really.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :disappoin :disappoin :screwy: :screwy: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

NG

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :disappoin :disappoin :screwy: :screwy: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

NG

hes right about the cap taking stress of the alternator... and for that matter every other electrical component in your car, especially at idle

How would they take stress off of anything?

All they do is spread the load out, the alternator still has to do the exact same amount of work that it had to do before, it just has a fraction of a second longer to do it with a cap. They don't "save" anything...if your alternator is going to go in a month then it's going to go in a month whether or not you have a cap.

hes right about the cap taking stress of the alternator... and for that matter every other electrical component in your car, especially at idle

Completely Incorrect! You obviously have no true grasp of electrical charging systems what-so-ever.

How would they take stress off of anything?

All they do is spread the load out, the alternator still has to do the exact same amount of work that it had to do before, it just has a fraction of a second longer to do it with a cap. They don't "save" anything...if your alternator is going to go in a month then it's going to go in a month whether or not you have a cap.

If anything, a capacitor creates ANOTHER load on the alternator. It has something else it has to "re-charge". Everytime the bass hits and the capacitor discharges, the alternator has to "re-fill" the capacitor as well as take care of EVERYTHING else in the electrical system ;)

NG

Completely Incorrect! You obviously have no true grasp of electrical charging systems what-so-ever.


If anything, a capacitor creates ANOTHER load on the alternator. It has something else it has to "re-charge". Everytime the bass hits and the capacitor discharges, the alternator has to "re-fill" the capacitor as well as take care of EVERYTHING else in the electrical system ;)

NG


I types a long description of how caps slow the demand down allowing more time to charge and then i realized that you obviously know nothing beyond big battery big wires big fuses huh?

I types a long description of how caps slow the demand down allowing more time to charge and then i realized that you obviously know nothing beyond big battery big wires big fuses huh?

HUH?! :banghead: :screwy:

I don't even understand what your saying...

NG

i used to think that caps did alot. i have 2 1 farads and honestly i dont know it my lights could dim anymore without going out. for a system of less than say 500 watts it might do something. it also looks cool when you have your amp and cap layed out. my caps are no longer visible, so i dont think they are doing anything for me. im getting a red top for under the hood and a yellow top in the trunk. also i need to do a big 3 upgrade. 2000 wrms and trying to save my alternator with caps, uhh, not gonna happen. and another thing, capacitors of that size are extremely dangerous. they are not very stable. i work with capacitors all the time and they do not bother me but when i was charging up my first 1 farad with my battery, i though i was going to pass out, just the 500 MICRO farad cap in a camera flash will scare the shit out of you if it shocks you. imagine what something 2000 times that would do.

Caps have their place. Yes, if you have a weak battery and cables on either a huge amp or just a ineffecient one, a cap won't help much. But, with a properly laid out system, they work. Yes, they won't lessen the load on the altinator but it will help level it out. It actually helps save the regulator so it doesn't have to constantly yo-yo from putting out a little and a lot. Many times when people say their altinator is shot, it isn't but the regulator is.

When I first did my system in my Libby all I did for the electrical was put in good cables and a cap. Everything was fine. Lights didn't dim at all. Now, my stock battery has just under 50k miles on it. The lights will dim even with the bass turned off. I need to stop being lazy and pull a gel cel out of the warehouse.

Caps have their place. Yes, if you have a weak battery and cables on either a huge amp or just a ineffecient one, a cap won't help much. But, with a properly laid out system, they work. Yes, they won't lessen the load on the altinator but it will help level it out. It actually helps save the regulator so it doesn't have to constantly yo-yo from putting out a little and a lot. Many times when people say their altinator is shot, it isn't but the regulator is.

When I first did my system in my Libby all I did for the electrical was put in good cables and a cap. Everything was fine. Lights didn't dim at all. Now, my stock battery has just under 50k miles on it. The lights will dim even with the bass turned off. I need to stop being lazy and pull a gel cel out of the warehouse.

The electrical load isn't reduced, but stopping hte yo yo from the regulator will def offer your alternator a longer life... just adding that.


i used to think that caps did alot. i have 2 1 farads and honestly i dont know it my lights could dim anymore without going out. for a system of less than say 500 watts it might do something. it also looks cool when you have your amp and cap layed out. my caps are no longer visible, so i dont think they are doing anything for me. im getting a red top for under the hood and a yellow top in the trunk. also i need to do a big 3 upgrade


If you have two 1 farad caps and 2000wrms and you didnt upgrade B3 - mainly the ground, that would be your problem. If you have a 4ga or 2ga kit wire but only a 8 ga alternator and charging wire your system will basicly be running as if you had a 8ga power wire. When your car is running there is already a significant draw on that 8ga ground as well, your lights will definitely dim because that puny little 8ga grounding wire cannot supply the current to the running engine/the headlights/ and your suckling amp & caps.

Before you ditch the caps, upgrade the wiring. I think you will notice a very large increase in power and a sharp decline in light dimming.

hmmmm....the i dont think some grasp how an altnator works....it is a spinning magnet inside a stationary conductor feild....the speed of the altinator is 100% dependant upon engine speed.
lets say the altinator is rotation at 800RPM and all it has to do is keep the engine running...lets say that takes 30a...it is a 200a altinator...now lets add in electrical assesories and say they draw 20a...now we have one big amp....at most it will draw 150a....so we have a consnant of 50a and a maximum draw peak of 200a....assumeing the battery is charged.
beause everything in a cars electical system is wired in parallel when you add an extra load the resistance goes down....when an amp is producing a small signal the resistane of the power supply is high...when more power is needed the resistance drops...this will allow the altinator to flow more electrons.... the altinator is still spinning at 800RPM the only thing that changes is the oposition to turning...meaning it will put a slightly larger load on the enigine.... not the altinator...the altinator just changes mechanical energy into electro magnetic energy...it doesnt have to do any more work because it isnt the one producing the power...the engine is.
the ONLY thing a capasitor will do is smooth out the electrical needs from the altinator....keeping the resistance changes less sudden, but no matter what the energy will be restored. capasitors will help slightly to save regulators, yes, but not altinators...

I types a long description of how caps slow the demand down allowing more time to charge and then i realized that you obviously know nothing beyond big battery big wires big fuses huh?


i'd be more than willing to read your description if you don't mind.


:)

hmmmm....the i dont think some grasp how an altnator works....it is a spinning magnet inside a stationary conductor feild....the speed of the altinator is 100% dependant upon engine speed.
lets say the altinator is rotation at 800RPM and all it has to do is keep the engine running...lets say that takes 30a...it is a 200a altinator...now lets add in electrical assesories and say they draw 20a...now we have one big amp....at most it will draw 150a....so we have a consnant of 50a and a maximum draw peak of 200a....assumeing the battery is charged.
beause everything in a cars electical system is wired in parallel when you add an extra load the resistance goes down....when an amp is producing a small signal the resistane of the power supply is high...when more power is needed the resistance drops...this will allow the altinator to flow more electrons.... the altinator is still spinning at 800RPM the only thing that changes is the oposition to turning...meaning it will put a slightly larger load on the enigine.... not the altinator...the altinator just changes mechanical energy into electro magnetic energy...it doesnt have to do any more work because it isnt the one producing the power...the engine is.
the ONLY thing a capasitor will do is smooth out the electrical needs from the altinator....keeping the resistance changes less sudden, but no matter what the energy will be restored. capasitors will help slightly to save regulators, yes, but not altinators...

go disconnect the little plug from the back of your alternator and drive your car for a few miles.

go disconnect the little plug from the back of your alternator and drive your car for a few miles.

You're a complete moron, period.

NG

You're a complete moron, period.

NG

ever done it? it tells the alternator to shut off =(

go disconnect the little plug from the back of your alternator and drive your car for a few miles.

all disconecting the harnes from your internal regulator does is drain your battery, what the hell is that going to prove? the altinator will STILL turn, but the regulator wont let it flow any current because the regulator will be OFF. wow. what, with out the altinator supplying any power at all the battery must supply the electricity and, oh look, the battery can only last so long... which is why when an altinator does go bad you volatage will drop somewhere in the high 12's low 13's instead of its usual charing voltage and then slowly drop untill your battery dies, along with your cars engine.

i really dont understand the point you where trying to make. :headshake

here is an idea


fully charge 100 40farad capacitors. load em onto a trailer and connect all those capacitors to your engine. whala! no need for alternator!!! :D




:icon16:

ummmm, ya....40 farad capasitors are HUGE... ive only seen one....we used to play with 15 farad caps... one of my teachers had one, we would charge it with one of the vendagraph generators or w/e which is like 50,000v then throw it at someone and tell them to catch it....talk about the most painful but least deadly shock of your life...

all disconecting the harnes from your internal regulator does is drain your battery, what the hell is that going to prove? the altinator will STILL turn, but the regulator wont let it flow any current because the regulator will be OFF. wow. what, with out the altinator supplying any power at all the battery must supply the electricity and, oh look, the battery can only last so long... which is why when an altinator does go bad you volatage will drop somewhere in the high 12's low 13's instead of its usual charing voltage and then slowly drop untill your battery dies, along with your cars engine.

i really dont understand the point you where trying to make. :headshake

someone stated that the alternator produces a fixed aount of power based on rpm, I was simply stating that the alternator will produce NO power unless its told to, no matter how fast its spinning. I wasnt arguing anything else, which is why you have no reason to be an ass*edit* not you, the guy who called me a moron.

ngsm13 can be an ass, because he thinks everyone should be all knowing like he thinks he is...but he does know his stuff, and like i said, all disconecting the harness will do is shut off the regulator, the altintor is still flowing electricity to the point of the regulator, but no further....the shaft of the altinator is fixed to the pulley which is always going to turn as long as the engine is running. and as long as a magnetic feild is moving through a conductor feild electricity will be produced... how it is distributed is what the regulator is for....if it isnt even working electricity wont be distributed at all... or in the opposite case, if it isnt working properly voltage and current flow may go out of the altinaotors range for too long causing the conductor to burn....

ngsm13 can be an ass, because he thinks everyone should be all knowing like he thinks he is...but he does know his stuff, and like i said, all disconecting the harness will do is shut off the regulator, the altintor is still flowing electricity to the point of the regulator, but no further....the shaft of the altinator is fixed to the pulley which is always going to turn as long as the engine is running. and as long as a magnetic feild is moving through a conductor feild electricity will be produced... how it is distributed is what the regulator is for....if it isnt even working electricity wont be distributed at all... or in the opposite case, if it isnt working properly voltage and current flow may go out of the altinaotors range for too long causing the conductor to burn....

Important part bolded, your first sentence is VERY humurous as well. A 15 year old lecturing me on what I "think" I know... :lol: :nono: :screwy:

NG

PS: MAYBE someday you'll mature enough to realize you DIDN'T know much when you were younger...you've got plenty to EXPERIENCE...
PPS: And I still enjoy learning as well... ;)

i know i dontk now everything....but to anyone who hasnt ventured into the world of good audio...you bash and call them morons....as you have me....i will still learn, as a matter of fact i am trying to learn about bass horns and TL, ive only dabbled in TL, or as much as i can....once i get into a better financial situation id like to build my own version of this http://www.powered4sound.com/media.html

though i beleive that vid with the TL and the 2 6 1/2's in the little hatch is total BS... id liek to play with 6.5's and true bass horns to see what sort of responce i could get, id also like to try and design an horn type enclosure that utilizes BOTH sides of the cone....making it twice as efficent, but that is far after Physics and maybe after a few Acoustics classes in college....

i know i dontk now everything....but to anyone who hasnt ventured into the world of good audio...you bash and call them morons....as you have me....i will still learn, as a matter of fact i am trying to learn about bass horns and TL, ive only dabbled in TL, or as much as i can....once i get into a better financial situation id like to build my own version of this http://www.powered4sound.com/media.html

though i beleive that vid with the TL and the 2 6 1/2's in the little hatch is total BS... id liek to play with 6.5's and true bass horns to see what sort of responce i could get, id also like to try and design an horn type enclosure that utilizes BOTH sides of the cone....making it twice as efficent, but that is far after Physics and maybe after a few Acoustics classes in college....

No, I only call people that THINK they are correct morons. I do this because most times they ARE NOT correct, or they are too full of themselves to realize they are either not entirely correct...and are just totally fucking wrong.

I also am VERY picky about people who are regurgitators, and theat haven't necessarily experienced all the shit they say they do...OR who just pass shit off they've read as their's.

Those are just a FEW things...

NG

I don't kno about your rice mobiles, but my alternator has a 4ga directly connected to the battery, and if the regulator isnt connected to the alt, it produces very little to no current

And ngsm would be an awesome person to learn from if he wasnt an ass.

egos can get in the way of real learning. I don't know ifmost colleges offer classes in acoustics .... I don't think any of the ones around here do.

egos can get in the way of real learning. I don't know ifmost colleges offer classes in acoustics .... I don't think any of the ones around here do.

I just found out that one of the intro physics classes at my school is on sound and acoustics. If I can manage to squeeze it in between all the other shit I have to take I'll try and get it. I was all excited when I saw it on the schedule when I was registering for next sem, but then I saw that it wasn't offered in the fall...at least I'm done with math after this sem, 6 semesters straight of math courses and I'm finally done, thank god.

Mazda B3000=Ford Ranger....
Dodge Truck (w/e nsgm drives) is domestic...
SR20 drives and altima but... it isnt rice unless you have under body light kits and spoilers and shit....and im not taking a stab at your siggy either... just saying.... an american truck can be a ricer just like a honda civic....
anyway, my stock wiring is 4ga, after getting the SX and amp the first electrical upgrade will be 1/0 big 3 just incase i ever do upgrade to an XXX18 and different amp....
then a deep cycle battery (maybe secondry with isolator, im not sure)
then an altinator...from what i can find i have a 90a altinator stock so peak draws in the mid 100's shouldnt be too hard on it....but it will probably dim my lights some... i will probably end up with a optima blue top, im not sure if it has the CA of my stock battery, but it has a huge reserve capasity and it is deep cycle so....iz all good....

And ngsm13 would be an awesome person to learn from if he wasnt an ass.


I don't know it seems to work well for me :dunno:

I don't kno about your rice mobiles, but my alternator has a 4ga directly connected to the battery, and if the regulator isnt connected to the alt, it produces very little to no current

And ngsm would be an awesome person to learn from if he wasnt an ass.

Umm...read this...(it was JUST posted above...)

No, I only call people that THINK they are correct morons. I do this because most times they ARE NOT correct, or they are too full of themselves to realize they are either not entirely correct...and are just totally fucking wrong.

I also am VERY picky about people who are regurgitators, and theat haven't necessarily experienced all the shit they say they do...OR who just pass shit off they've read as their's.

Those are just a FEW things...

NG

Important part bolded...

Also, big WHOOPDEEDOO on the 4zwg buddy. I have well OVER 50 feet of 1/0 in my truck (Dodge truck...no uncle ben's here...) which includes the Big 3 (Do YOU even know what that is?!?!?!?! lmao) in 1/0 ;)

NG

PS: In case you missed it, READ the bold part...

A which includes the Big 3 (Do YOU even know what that is?!?!?!?! lmao) in 1/0 ;)



w00t! me too. 4 gauge looked too small after holding it next to the 1/0 so i said what the hey and slapped on the 1/0 :iceslolan :p

hmmm..... i may be going gor 1ga instead of 1/0...pinching pennies as much as possible, but i dont need 1/0 now that i am no longer going to be running an XXX and BX1800....

hmmm..... i may be going gor 1ga instead of 1/0...pinching pennies as much as possible, but i dont need 1/0 now that i am no longer going to be running an XXX and BX1800....

1/0 is like $.99 @ www.weldingsupply.com ;)

nG

The regulator is inside the alternator - hence no current if you disconnect the harness. i am not even attempting to brag about my 4ga charge wire.

I like learning, but from real information, not pplz condecending opinions.

The regulator is inside the alternator - hence no current if you disconnect the harness. i am not even attempting to brag about my 4ga charge wire.

I like learning, but from real information, not pplz condecending opinions.

Shows how much you know, the Regulator is NOT always inside the alternator. Many past vehicles had external regulators OR the voltage was regulated by the stock computer system of the vehicle. Current vehicles though, almost all are internally regulated.

NG

Shows how much you know, the Regulator is NOT always inside the alternator. Many past vehicles had external regulators OR the voltage was regulated by the stock computer system of the vehicle. Current vehicles though, almost all are internally regulated.

NG

Shows how much I know? is your only goal to show how little I know about automotive electronics? if so then good job, now please grow up. for someone who seems highly respected on this forum you are most unimpressive.

Shows how much I know? is your only goal to show how little I know about automotive electronics? if so then good job, now please grow up. for someone who seems highly respected on this forum you are most unimpressive.

I guess you missed it...for the...3rd time...

No, I only call people that THINK they are correct morons. I do this because most times they ARE NOT correct, or they are too full of themselves to realize they are either not entirely correct...and are just totally fucking wrong.

I also am VERY picky about people who are regurgitators, and theat haven't necessarily experienced all the shit they say they do...OR who just pass shit off they've read as their's.

Those are just a FEW things...

NG

Thank you and have a nice day...son...

NG

1/0 is like $.99 @ www.weldingsupply.com ;)

nG

:grinno:
#1 is like $1.01....where do you think i get all of my power wire for installs from????? and for 25foot spool it is like $7 shipping. still a lot better than "stereo" wire but it works out $1.30 per foot.... so i save like 5 bucks...lmao...maybe my penny pinching needs to be somewhere else... :uhoh:

:grinno:
#1 is like $1.01....where do you think i get all of my power wire for installs from????? and for 25foot spool it is like $7 shipping. still a lot better than "stereo" wire but it works out $1.30 per foot.... so i save like 5 bucks...lmao...maybe my penny pinching needs to be somewhere else... :uhoh:

I got like around 30-40 feet of 1/0 for free ;)

Helps knowing people/ getting the hook-up ;)

NG