GTO is not american

The GTO is not an amerian car

It was built in Australia and shiped off to america with a new grill a new badge, and a new name.

Check it out for yourself

HOLDEN MONARO
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001

PONTIAC GTO
http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp?brand=home

This is not news. In fact, there are no "100% American" cars or trucks anymore. This is not the first car GM has imported from its foriegn divisions and it will not be the last. All automakers do it.

This is not news. In fact, there are no "100% American" cars or trucks anymore. This is not the first car GM has imported from its foriegn divisions and it will not be the last. All automakers do it.

I agree. I've noticed that every GM car I owned from 1996 and up are assembled in Canada. Therefore, they are technically made in Canada.

The GTO is not an amerian car

It was built in Australia and shiped off to america with a new grill a new badge, and a new name.

Check it out for yourself

HOLDEN MONARO
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001

PONTIAC GTO
http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp?brand=home


Man, i think that over 95% of the people here already knew that. GM even anounced it on their website when the concpet was released. Besides that, either way its a GM car, Australian or American. As long as it's not Japanese, i'm cool with it.

Man, i think that over 95% of the people here already knew that. GM even anounced it on their website when the concpet was released. Besides that, either way its a GM car, Australian or American. As long as it's not Japanese, i'm cool with it.

:1:

The GTO is not an amerian car

It was built in Australia and shiped off to america with a new grill a new badge, and a new name.

Check it out for yourself

HOLDEN MONARO
http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001

PONTIAC GTO
http://www.pontiac.com/gto/index.jsp?brand=home

So... Better build quality and better inside materials. Beside, I bought my Goat for the LS2 (like most of us) and that was built here as was the tranny (both A4 and M6).

Don't think these pople are getting anything over on you, your correct, it seems that they dont care, but thats fine for them, 8k was silly enough to buy one, thats his problem, if he has not allready found out is that most real Pontiac people and chevy people hate the car, and Ford Mustang owners hate it because it looks like one.

so HA HA the jokes on them. hope they injoy the next payment on the car and the feeling of taking away American Jobs.

This is not news. In fact, there are no "100% American" cars or trucks anymore. This is not the first car GM has imported from its foriegn divisions and it will not be the last. All automakers do it.

Sure not many cars are 100% anything, but it's kinda funny how american cars seem to suffer the most from that.

One can even say that the WW2 Jap 0 was American, since the Japs bought nearly all steel from america.

You hurting the Country, the worker and yourself when you buy stuff that Americans make. We don't even make TVs in America, and we made the TV!

Some people who live here dont care about it, the kinda people who buy the chevAussiGTO!

Rather than complaining and taking pot-shots, maybe you should actually DRIVE one.
It amazes me how many people are out to "kill" the car over such reasons. The same crowd would buy a Subaru simply because it was .1 second "quicker" in the 1/4 mile. The fact that GTO is a true V8-RWD tire-shredding muscle car cannot be ignored. Mustang is NOT. Never was, never will be. At least Charger isn't retro... Not very fast, toug. If it was, Dodge would be up in our faces with speeds and times. IMO, "retro" is whoring a car that tries to regain past (lost) glory. True GTO people NEVER bought GTO for what others thought of how they "look" in it. They bought them for the view over the hood, the dash, and the moonsterous torque and power. No toher muscle car ever quite got the balance of class/performance GTO had. Some were quicker (especially if you compare the big-motored Chevelles and Olds to the smaller Pontiacs, like the "shoot-outs" always do), but they just didn't have that extra "something" that added handling and classy lines. Being heavily involved in the GTO "hobby", I see all kinds. The only old GTO owners I hear complaining are "band wangoneers" (bought their "restored" GTO because it was "cool"). Old timers that love GTO think the modern one is right there with the old ones. It meets all the criteria originally outlined by Mr. DeLorean and Mr. Wangers. And it does with a subtle class not found in other makes. Car & Driver said it best: "Don't look a gift-goat in the mouth". We should be proud of Mr. Lutz for having the sack to bring the car over here in the first place.
And you really need to get over this obsession with calling LSx engines "Chevy". They are NOT. They are a GM corporate effort with contributions from each division regarding design and production. It shares no architecture with SBC OR SB2.

Deloren said that he would never build a GTO with anything less then a 400.

This car has more to do with the Aussis and less to do with America how can you say this???

I built my GTO for speed, not a full restore with yellow paint on my drive shaft, I built it for speed! The car became more to me when I would see Chevys with the same BS under the hood, same everything, and with the cheap engine parts chevy became more of a "cookie cut" engine meaning they all kinda looked the same, that only makes PONTIACs real PONTIACs with it's backgound and it's history instilled.

That bastard of a car is not liked by the people I know in the Pontiac world, the guys on the street and the car shows, I don't know how you can say that the pontiac people like that car!?!?

IT'S NOT EVEN BUILT IN AMERICA?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think this why don't you stop rebuilding PMD engines and push the Chevy L engine? You said it yourself, that that engine uses SBC bearings, that engine is the next SBC it shares nothing with any other engine but the SBC, no vally pan, SBC bearings, the over all mesurements allmost fit that of a SBC, even the heads Ex-manifold bolts up just like a SBC, you cannot tell me that engine is the next SBC, your correct it's not a 70s SBC but it's shares strokes and cam size that are allmost in line with a SBC, and I think it has the same fireing order!

The car is UN AMERICAN AND NOT A Pontiac GTO!
I may be wrong but a muscle car being true to the place and kinda of car is would have to at least be made in America, what car made outside the US could even start to be a muscle car ??

Why would I even care about driveing it? I think it's an insult to not only Americans but a slap in the face to Deloren.

I respect your building skills and what you build, but to say this car is a true Pontiac GTO and a muscle car is like putting a Chevy BB in a 65 GTO!

You're comparing apples to donuts. In the "muscle car era", EVERY GM division had its' own engine family. That changed in the late '70s, and will not be coming back. To use the same corporate engine in both Pontiac and Corvette, is a natural order of business.

LSx shares only the part numbers for the rod bearing (not mains OR cam) and lifter. Nothing else. The SBC has a valve layout of E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E. LSx has I-E-I-E-I-E-I-E. There's no chance of the exhaust systems even looking alike, much less fitting.
SBC has the crankshaft centerline just above the pan rails. You've complained about this in another post. Same is true of BBC and Pontiac (actually, Pontiac has the centerline AT the pan rail). LSx has the "skirted" pan rails, not unlike the Ford FE and Chrysler B/RB designs. The reason is simple. Strength. With the heavy iron and thick bulkheads the GM engines used, the skirted block was unnecessary. The later Ford BB also has pan rails in line with the crank centerline. The earlier Ford and the Dodge need the skirts for the strength, as the bulkheads aren't as thick. The Hemi came with "cross-bolt" mains. So did 427 Ford. So does LSx. Actually, LSx has 6 main bolts, not just 4.
The heads. Well, all that can be said is that I have never seen the like! They have a "cathedral window" intake port, VERY tall, and not too wide (opposite of SBC and Pontiac). A friend told me he saw a similar design on the latest version of GM's 502 (not the BBC race engine, but the pickup engine in modern ones). The heads were just like the LSx heads, but larger. Interesting concept...
Seriously, get some drawings or at least some pictures of the engine in disassembled condition. You will see, there's NOTHING SBC about it.

I have been trying to find the correct words in the last few posts about this engine, so I'm going to try to connect some dots here because I can't seem to believe that you would try to spin off this engine as a beast haveing no history.

This engine is not the same SBC as a 70 350 however you cant tell me that this is not what the SBC should be for 2005!

Do you not think this? GM has been useing SBCs in just about everything, it's first changes were roller cams (Factory) and center bolt valvecover heads, and even the heads are not the same as a 70 SBC this started in 1987, so you could even say that the 1987 engines could be GM nonchevy engines, could you not?
Lets keep going with changes to the block with gear driven water pumps and an intake that does not fit other older years and other physical changes that I really dont have in front of me right now, you could say that was the next step, right?

So now we have the BIG change, revamped heads and intake and movieng the crank into the ceneterline, cast oil pan that works as a part of the block and not just sheet steel.

Sure it's big changes but you cannot tell me that this was not the next step for the SBC, this is a 2005 SBC, HOT ROD just did a history of the SBC in the last few months, with pin up posters of the engine inside the mag, and I will let you guess what the last engine poster was.

As far as this AussiChevyGTO you can't tell me that it's a pontiac, come on?!? You of all people that still support an engine that has not been cast since 1978 (1979 was last year used but the block was last cast in 78 and they just let the supply run out), you can't tell me that a car made in another country shipped to the US and Pontiac arrow heads slaped on it is a Pontiac?!?!!

It's fast, sure but so is duck crap falling from 2,000 feet, it's the engine and the history or the history it makes that make the car, not a fast engine and 3M backed arrow heads!

I have loyalty to Pontiac, the American made Pontiacs with real Pontiac engines that were designed by PMD.
Thats a Pontiac, the IA engines are basicly what PMD had in mind.

On top of this the car looks nothing like any GTO, Tempest, LeMans or anything pontiac, how can you even say it is. XxX's car had more to do with being a pontiac with a dam chevy in it!!!!!!!

Sir you do very well with the history lessons of the engines, but with all that info you still not telling me why it's not what a SBC should be, and your not telling me why this car is a GTO, besides that it's fast.

I'm not going to carry this any further. I have stated, from an engineering point of view, how LSx differs. You simply WANT it to be a Chevy so you can whine about it. The one thing that mkes is different is the FACT that it came from a "clean sheet of paper" in the various engineering departments involved. And Mr. DeLorean NEVER said ANYTHING about 400CID. If you recall, '64-'66 had 389s. NOT 400s.
Keep on complaining. Pontiac is not going to move the manufacturing to the US for a variety of reasons. GTO means "Grand Turismo Olomogato", which in English roughly translated to "Grand Touring, Homogenized". It means, the car was put together with a "homogneized blend" of shelf parts and existing technology. That is EXACTLY what the Holden Monaro-modified-to-GTO is. Hope you don't think your '72 with a 400 in it is a match for that car. You could get your feelings hurt, unless you have a lot of serious aftermarket stuff in your engine and chassis.

i dont want to start a war but mr. delorean didnt want to build the gto with anything smaller than the 400. thats a fact! corporate would not allow him to put it in, if you jnow your history. i was 9 when the gto came out in 64, i remember, i'm not looking at a book or reading the idiotnet full of disinformation.
i sat in the first prototype 67 firebird at the gm factory in framiongham mass. in mid summer 66 before they even started production.
gto stands for, to the true pontiac owner; gas tires and oil. if you think different you are not a true pontiac officianado,
the firebird was the banshee, read your history books boy and girls. gm doesnt care that the car is not built in the states all they care about is the profit line and how much they can squeeze out.
my dad worked at gm framingham plant when they built the first gto's there. i was 9. i remember those cars and the only true firebirds, the first generation.
you boys with these wanta be muscle cars would not be able to handle a 60's era bird or gto. 365 hp out of the factory, no blowers no superchargers just plain old american muscle, true american muscle not built somewhere else.
by the way i worked at the same factory for 15 years until it closed.
i agree that there are no cars made totally i the usa, that is your fault, you buy them, if more americans gave a shit about buying american maybe we would have a true american muscle car. but the only way to do that is bitch to gm corporate, they are the one who think its more important to make the car cheaper than it is to have the people here make it.

Well, I gotcha by a year.. (was 10 in '64). The Pontiac 400 wasn't introduced until '67, in the 4th year of GTO production. 389 was the engine that was available before that. It is rumored (but never verified) a few of the "Royal Bobcats" were 421-powered. Non were from the factory.
Banshee has been the name used for several concept cars from Pontiac over the years. The '87 era version is almost a carbon copy of what later became the '93 Firebird body. The coolest one I remember was from '65, where there was a pic of John Z. driving one. It looked remarkably like the '68 Corvette. GM told him (John Z.) to forget it. Pontiac was NOT going to produce a car that would compete with Corvette for market share.
"my" definition of what "GTO" means is NOT my definition at all. It was Enzo Ferrari's, and that is exactly what it means. It became a class in FIA and SCCA. "gas, tires & oil", "get tools out", "garbage truck optional" are all "street slang" for GTO. Another one we heard a lot, but never quite figured out "go through Oscar's".

I'm from the same age group and the only street slang we used back then for a GTO was "Goat" period.

The mid 60s Goats were defintely awesome with that Tri-Power 389. IMO the only other 6 packs that were more awesome are the Plymouth and Dodges with the 440 six packs.

BTW - I'm quite happy with my modern day quasi-musclecar considering it only has a 231 cid V6 engine.

ET: 13.62 @ 102 mph, 0 - 60 ft: 2.09 secs.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y186/lizzywiz/gtp.jpg
Thrasher CAI, DHP v1.0 PCM,
3.25 SC pulley, CAIT GMAF, Hi-Flow CAT,
u-bend delete, 160 TS, TB spacer,
MSD 8.5mm wires, Autolite 104 Spark Plugs,
Goodyear Gatorback Serp. & SC Belt,
Nitto NT555R Drag Radials

"Well, I gotcha by a year.. (was 10 in '64). The Pontiac 400 wasn't introduced until '67, in the 4th year of GTO production. 389 was the engine that was available before that. It is rumored (but never verified) a few of the "Royal Bobcats" were 421-powered. Non were from the factory. "
IF YOU READ THE POST WHICH YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDNT. DELOREAN DIDN'T WANT TO PUT ANYTHING SMALLER THAN A 400 IN THE GTO.
i never said that 400's were available. but obviously being a "ASE Master Engine Machinist" you cant tell when you are wrong. sorry dude i was there at the gm factory in 66 where were you? i saw the 400 under the hood of the 67 bird, just because it wasnt available in 64 doesnt mean delorean didn't want it, its a fact. call carol shelby and ask him. they knew each other then.

Well, I was in Southern California when I was 12. I DO recall, driving a Chevelle SS 4-speed car before I was "legal". Thinking it was the baddest car around, I was amazed when she (my sister driving) was stomped by a '66 GTO. Been hooked ever since.
Your attempts at condescention are noted. Have you read "Glory Years"? I highly recommend it for a refresher to your "history" lessons. Mr. Wangers' description of both the mechanical and political situations at the time don't match yours. He was there, too, and he wasn't a child at the time.
I DID read your post. You implied John Z. wanted bigger engines. No shit? Really? gee... GM had a ban on anything larger than 400 CID in ANY A-body car (F-body didn't exist yet). Mr. DeLorean and Mr. Wangers simply out-flanked them by using 389. It worked.
We ALL want bigger engines. Making a blanket statement about such a thing is foolish. I don't live in the past OR my memories. I live in the present, and I build engines for every type of vehicle, especially the old Pontiacs. My business is doing well and growing. I've been published as an automotive expert. Have you?
I was beating up on Chevys and Fords (and Mopes) when I was 18, driving a GTO. Been doing it ever since, at least through my customers.
Now, if you think it's necessary to poke at such minute and irrelevant details as an assumption (show me a quote) that the GTO was supposed to be something it wasn't, go ahead on!
It's funny, but every once in a while, someone shows up on this site to make waves and trouble, based on pure BS. It's okay. I'll be here long after you've gotten bored and moved on to a Honda site or something.
If you would like to learn what's REALLY going on in TODAY'S Pontiac "world", go to:

classicalpontiac.com
performanceyears.com
boyleworks.com

All three of these sites have excellent forums and are strictly Pontiac. The knowledge there is amazing.

We're building them faster and tougher than ever before. With all the new "goodies" out there, the small block crowd is a memory, and big block guys are looking over their shoulders saying "who ARE those guys...?"

I'm sorry if you think i'm a wine, but truth is truth, the car is a FAKE, being fast does not make it an American car let alone allowed to be called an American Muscle car like you waant it so much to be.

I'm one of those guys who is all pontiac all the time, that car is NOT MADE IN THE U.S.A. !!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's like calling a Geo Meto a 100% Chevy!

So what your saying is that the current L engine in that Bastard AussiChevGTO has in no shape way or form anything to do with the SBC, and that HOT ROD did not call it the next stage of the SBC???????????

Not only is 84fiero123 1000% correct he is a true pontiac-er and by god more of us then the rest are thinking this way, why because it's the truth, ITS NOT EVEN AN AMERICAN CAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Deloren hated Chevy for holding back PMD so that Chevy could get better sales,I have the interview in HPP if you want me to scan it on here! That engine has everything to do with Chevy and nothing about Pontiac.
PONTIAC DIED IN 1979 with that rape of it's cars with chevy engines, I really dont care it it was the best money making move in the world it's just the way it is!

As for as my GTO outting the AussiChevGTO I have a way better chance of going faster then that car then it does money to money. And I'm sure I will rape it good when I get my IA2 with Tiger heads!

SBCs have made changes over the years, and the last change is the current small block. Just so you know Pontiacs were not cast at the same place as Chevys, and it's strange that the current SBC is being cast right in the same place as the last SBCs.

It's funny how much I'm able to defend my place, and it seems that all anybody can come back with is "It's not a Chevy engine (well thats only you) and alot of people have used the name GTO" Good night what a weak minded defense!

IT'S A AUSSI CAR WITH A CHEVY ENGINE AND IT'S GOT PONTIAC STICKERS ON IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Truth hurts! ITS A FAKE CAR BUIT FOR THE WEAK MINDED!

It's has nothing about liveing the past, it's about INTEGRITY.
It's not a Pontiac.
It's not American.

Thats great you build engines, but building engines does not give you any right or ability to "bless" this car as a Pontiac GTO.
Liveing in the past would have me usieng only 60s and 70's engine tec. Since my next engine will have all the fetures of a forced induction injected engine I can say that i'm liveing the now with my LOYALTY to PMD.

Your not the only one who knows people, want to see my Phone bills? Hmm guess what those guys hate the AussiChevy also, and guess what I got a lesson on the makes of what the SBC IS and was from some great Pontiac engine builders!

You try to make this car a real Pontiac GTO and when you try to lay it out it looks worse for you.

[QUOTE=bnaylor3400]I'm from the same age group and the only street slang we used back then for a GTO was "Goat" period.

The mid 60s Goats were defintely awesome with that Tri-Power 389. IMO the only other 6 packs that were more awesome are the Plymouth and Dodges with the 440 six packs.

BTW - I'm quite happy with my modern day quasi-musclecar considering it only has a 231 cid V6 engine.

ET: 13.62 @ 102 mph, 0 - 60 ft: 2.09 secs.


The car is imported from and made by the Aussis, and 3M Pontiac heads are slaped on and it's tryed to be played off as an American muscle car legend.
A: It puts Americans out of work.
B: It's Powered by a SBC V8
C: The whole design is non american
D: It's a cheap way to fool Americans into thinking they are getting a GTO
E: It looks like a freaking 5.0!

Nice cars man, you got picks?

just one last statement for you, if you want it buy it yourself.
if you live and work in the USA, buy USA made products, that are made in the USA, not shiped in from somewhere else or built here by nissan and then the money is sent over seas.
i'm going to ask you if you saw the history chanels show on the gto a week or so ago, it had intervews with some people you might want to listen to, wanger, delerean, shelby, and iacoca?
about the GTO!

Muscle Cars.
Aired on Monday, June 27 at 3:00am ET
keep an eye out for it to air again set your vcr and learn something!

ps
i had one of mr. wangers cars. a 1976 mustang COBRA II
no. 26 out of 52 built for 76 off his assembly line. at motor town in detroit, his company at the time.

It's not American.


Tell me your definition of an "American" car. Is it assembled in America, are all of it's parts made in America? Take the new Corvette, the LS2 is made in Canada, the Tremec is made in Mexico, the radio is made in Japan, the car is assembed in the states, so, what is your definition?

true few cars are made soley in the usa today. but when corporations send work to contrys like mexico where they pay the workers 53 cents an hour just to increase the company profit margin its hard to understand why you would want to buy are 4 cyl. gm product. all 4 cyl. engines for gm are made in mexico.
dont bitch when you have trouble with it.
the american public has no idea where these engines are made they just think its in an american car so its american.
saturn, shelby cobra's, are some of the only cars made in the usa.
saturn has its own sheet metal stamping plant on sight in tenn.
look at the stick on the inside of the door, if its uaw made it will tell you where it was assembled.
bitch about it not being totaly made in usa and maybe they will do something.
i say we take a lesson from iococca and tell corporate leaders they get no pay unless the comp. makes a profit, without outsourceing the parts, people that do nothing in these comp. have been protected from pay cuts and corporate outsourceing for decades, while the people that make the product have been downsized, laid off, just so the corporate higher ups can get a pay increase, ceo's make millions a year and outsource everything to contries that dont pay people a wage they can live on.
buy here , build here.
if you dont get paid a decent wage how can you afford to buy something made here.

a little out of wack wouldn't you say?

In 1973, CEOs made 45 times as much as workers, according to pay expert Graef Crystal. In 1991, when Crystal said the imperial CEO "is paid so much more than ordinary workers that he hasn't got the slightest clue as to how the rest of the country lives," CEOs made 140 times as much as workers. Last year, CEOs made more than 300 times as much.

by the way rzkz8k where was your xl made here or mexico?
just look for the door sticker.

Funny you should mention Iaccoca in the same paragraph with the others. This is a man that has only one saving grace as to American car production. He was the engineer responsible for re-skinning Falcon and calling it "Mustang".
He's also the same guy that jumped ship from Ford to Chrysler out of protest for not getting promoted. He then made a big deal with Mitsubishi to supply 4-cylinder engines for the new mini-vans. Once Chrysler finally figured out how to build a semi-reliable 4-cylinder, he immediately sold Mitsubishi out by demanding Congress enact protectionist laws. Real class act...
You two have taken a beating by others on this thread and a couple others. I'll leave it alone now. Have a wonderful day! But beware, that oversized-Cavelier-looking thing in the lane next to you may not be an obtrusive wannabe, but it'll sure as hell blow your doors off!

" You two have taken a beating by others on this thread and a couple others."

OMG LOL it seems it's really the other way around! Just because you want this car to be an American car dose not make it one, and it looks like a FORD MUSTANG good night man, it's a fake, it's a FAKE CAR!!!
Oh and Deloren didnt have much of a good past time also with Auto makers!

When it comes down to it its' "NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT"
YOU have failed to reply to my questions in other posts about this DORKED car, your the one how has lost, just because somebodys says "Your stupid" is not a come back or answer, or some 4th grad talking fool putting a stupid jpg or "I see stupid people" is not a come back or answers why this car is not a GTO.

Sir you have not done anything but give history lessons about somthing other then what we are talking about, that dose not make this car an American car.

Saying that "everyone does it" is not making this car a Pontiac GTO!

Saying that "It's not the same engine as a 70's 350SBC" is not making this car a Pontiac GTO!

Saying that "it's fast"is not making this car a Pontiac GTO!

Saying that "it shreds tire"is not making this car a Pontiac GTO!

Saying that "other cars are made outside the US"is not making this car a Pontiac GTO!

Saying that "I build pontiac engines"is not making this car a Pontiac GTO!

Saying that "It's not a chevy engine (and it is)"is not making this car a Pontiac GTO!

The only reason you have for this car being a GTO is "it's fast"!

Thats it, if you have another we all would like to hear it, you people have been on the ropes trying to defend this car with no answers to why an American Legend can be remade in another country powered by it's sworn enemy CHEVY!

NOBODY HAS SAID ANYTHING WHY THIS SHOULD BE AN AMERICAN CAR BECAUSE IT CAN NEVER BE ONE MADE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY WITH A CHEVY ENGINE IN IT.

Andy like I said "HOT ROD" mag calls it a SBC and I dont care if you build SR-71 engines it's still what a SBC should be.

Trying to toss BS comments about "it will beat your car" "It's fast""in your world you think this" only shows that you have NO HARD POINTS thats this is an American Pontiac GTO.

I will tell you what it is tho, it's a car made for people who want a GTO that don't know any better or know better but want it to be some THING it's not, but try to get away with it because GM tryed it.

Take a lesson from history people GM tryed it with the Old Rocket engine and got sued!
Times have changed, lower IQs and lack of a back bone has made this car sell.
As an Engine builder you know that even my 1974 400 with a stroker crank with injection will stomp the snot out of this engin, and I can build mine lots cheaper then the AussiChev crate engine!

You know the HP numbers my engine sould allready be putting out, on top of that my car is alot lighter then a stock GTO, check out my car on page 8 of VFNs webpage! Next year I'm getting the full body in fiber/carbon with a A&M chassie!

I'm going to RAPE that AussiChevy and its going to make the sucker who bought it take it back to the dealer and get his 30+Gs of import money bought car back!

by the way rzkz8k where was your xl made here or mexico?
just look for the door sticker.

My 2003 YukonXL was assembled in Mexico, engine built in Canada and the tranny was built in Toledo. Most of the body modules were built in Mexico.

My 2004 YukonXL was assembled in Janesville, the rest of the parts were as above.

The 2004 was a replacement for the 03 which came under a lemon law. I had a lot of issues with the 04 mostly with the exhaust system droning and body electronics. I traded it for the GTO which I have had zero issues with.

I hear you 8K I think america needs a wake up call! I still cant see jumping off the home team tho.

I hate saying it but Chrysler has done so much better with getting with Dymlier? . I was showen this when I went shopping for a 05 JGC hemi, he had a WJ on the lot and showed me the gaps between the body and bolt on parts like doors and lens, he also went as far as showing me the gaps on 04 to 05 that were better also.

At least the NV T cases are still made here, I guess, GM and Ford better get off better made/working cars before the American car gos the way of the american TV.

Is this true? It's a import and chevy Powered?

Thats not right.....

Is this true? It's a import and chevy Powered?
Thats not right.....

First off, are you on ramairgto72’s payroll? Just kidding but you sound just like him.

These topics have been beat to death many times on this board (do a search), after some quite time, it starts all over again. I won’t answer your questions but I will introduce a few of my own with some opinions.

First question, what is the definition (yours or any one else’s) of an import with in the context of these threads?

Is an import an Asian vehicle?
Is an import a vehicle made outside of the USA?
Is an import a vehicle made outside of North America?
Is an import defined by were the dollar stops?

Last Easter I went to my sister’s home. I noticed she had a new Honda car in her garage. So I asked her why she didn’t buy an America car. She told me she did, her car was made in Marysville, Ohio. Then she asked a dandy of a question, she asked me why I didn’t buy an American car. I thought to myself, well, I’m driving a 2004 GMC Yukon XL, an America icon, a stable since the early days of American trucks. She pointed out that my truck was made in Mexico with a Canadian built engine and a Mexican built transmission, she’s right, I’m driving the foreign made vehicle.

I traded my Yukon in on my 2005 GTO. It was assembled in Australia with a Canadian built LS2 engine and a Mexican built manual transmission. Many of the vehicle’s components were made all over Europe. We can get finite, like, where were the semiconductors made for the radio. Where were the radio’s circuit boards made, and it goes on.

The engine controllers for the LS2 engines (MY05 and 06) are assembled and made in Milwaukee, WI. Of course, some of the IC’s are made off shore.

I needed a daily driver so I bought a 2006 Chevy HHR. Guess what? It is assembled in Mexico.

Second question, what is an American car and where do I buy one?

If a car is assembled in the states but with an engine made in Mexico or Canada, is it an American car?

I traded my 2001 Buick Regal GS in on my Yukon. My Buick was made in Canada with an engine made in Flint, Michigan. Was this an America car? This GS was not true to the early GS muscle cars yet this car never took the beating the GTO does, how come? It was front wheel drive with a SC V6 engine and a automatic transmission, not even close to the late 60’s GS with the 400 and 455 Stage X engines.

The new GTO is true to it’s heritage unlike my Buick GS. It is a powerful powertrain stuffed in to a mid sized rear wheel drive GM platform. Yes, Holden is a GM company. Bob Lutz brought back the GTO by stuffing a powerful powertrain in to a suitable midsized platform, just like John did in 1964. Search the internet and find the stories behind the new GTO, interesting.

NEWS FLASH - CHEVY DOES NOT BUILD ENGINES PERIOD, nor does any other GM motor division, and they haven’t for many years.

All GM engines are corporation designed and built engines. The only differences between divisions anymore are the calibrations used to control each platform’s powertrain (gearing too). None of us can change this rule, we can do all the talking and all the references to Chevy powered this or Chevy powered that but it doesn’t matter, Chevy does not make engines any more!

This is Chrysler’s business model, Plymouths and Dodges have always shared powertrains. So what is the beef when GM does it?

There is my 2cents.

So, what is an import?

I guess the bottom line is: Welcome to the global economy.

I traded my 2001 Buick Regal GS in on my Yukon. My Buick was made in Canada with an engine made in Flint, Michigan. Was this an America car? This GS was not true to the early GS muscle cars yet this car never took the beating the GTO does, how come? It was front wheel drive with a SC V6 engine and a automatic transmission, not even close to the late 60’s GS with the 400 and 455 Stage X engines.

For one it wasn't made in Australia. :lol2: Plus older guys like me that drive em have sense enough to accept it as it is. However, the 3800 as we know it today, although a corporate platform, was originally designed and engineered by Buick. Big difference although I don't know what all the squabbling and parsing is about. Any day now and hopefully I'll have a '05 GTO sitting in my garage.

The "fake" GTO was made in Australia, I say fake because it's not, well it's not an American car, the car was has other body kinds..

I don't get payed for anything...

I would say an American car is a Car that is thought up, that is made on a drafting table by an American company, tho it make have imported parts it's still American (just like American people!), but a car made on a drafting table in Japan and made here in the US is still an Import, it's even worse then that, because it's useing American workers to help put the American Auto plants and workers under.

I think the Romans did that with captured Armys, they used them as sheilds when fighting other people.

I look at this way, it's just like Auto Zone, the come into a town plaster 4-5 stores up so that they put the ma and pa stores out then they close some of the stores down to one or 2, they spent alot of money to make th stores but when they shut down the comp and close but one or 2 stores they win over all.

Now i'm not saying that Japan and all the others are going to pull out in the next 20 years, but if GM Ford dodge go under then they have no good reason to keep American plants here, It costs more to run them here then it does in Japan because of the 20 to a room liveing.

You all know i'm right about this, you can say that some mon is being made with non American auto factories, but if you think about it, it's all labor, not jobs with future, Labor will not grow into anything else but labor, but a American company will be American and helping with America.

Not investing in your own country is like being a Surf.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I hate any one race, I just think that America should not be sold out by it's own people.

I seen on the news the CEO of Honda saying he was going to crush American auto companys..

Does that sit well with you?

First off, are you on ramairgto72’s payroll? Just kidding but you sound just like him.

Thats funny...lol. I see that Ramairgto72 was banned.

Thats funny...lol. I see that Ramairgto72 was banned.

I didn't know ramair got the boot, that explains why this newbie sounds parallel. I was going to reply but no need to now.

"Call Shelby and ask him".That's the funniest thing i've heard in a long time.
:rofl:
CS was a good driver in his day.Then his heart condition ended that.Other than that CS is a complete Piece of $hit.Lieing,coniving chicken farmer who sues people when HE forgets to do something.:shakehead

He was so busy in '64,hell bent for leather beating Ferrari's ass,had didn't know and didn't care what was going on at GM.

Second question, what is an American car and where do I buy one?

The Corvette, the Corvette Z06, the Saleen S7, the Panoz Esperante, and the Panoz Esperante GTLM.

All GM engines are corporation designed and built engines. The only differences between divisions anymore are the calibrations used to control each platform’s powertrain (gearing too).

So who besides Cadillac is going to use the new Northstar V-8 SC (supercharged)?

Who besides Chevrolet is going to use the new 505 hp LS7?

http://www.motorsportscenter.com/uploads/late_sunday_and_monday_265.jpg

Cadillac's new 4.4 liter (267 cubic inch) supercharged Northstar V-8 is hand-built at the new Performance Build Center in Wixom, Michigan. Wixom is a Detroit suburb. It is the most powerful engine ever put in a Cadillac and is designated LC3.

Cadillac's 4.4 liter Northstar V-8 SC (http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/cadillac/0504em_cady/)

http://popularhotrodding.com/tech/0504phr_ls7_21_z.jpg

The block is an all-new casting.

http://popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/cadillac/0504em_cady_11_z.jpg

I would imagine the LC3 would get a plaque just like the 505 hp LS7 shown below. The new Corvette Z06's 505 hp LS7 is also hand-built at the Performance Build Center.

http://popularhotrodding.com/tech/0507phr_gm_19_z.jpg

Why do you consider the Corvette to be an American car? What do you consider to be a foreign car?

We know the LS2 (used in the Corvette and other platforms) is cast and assembled in Windsor, and the manual transmission is built in Mexico, we also know the LS7 is cast in Windsor.

Not trying to be cute, just trying to understand “what is what” in this new “global economy” that we are all being sucked into.

I bought a Chevy HHR with the 2.4L auto. The engine is made in Spring Hill, the transmission in Windsor and assembled in Mexico. Is this an American vehicle?

Right now the LC3 is only scheduled for use in the STS/XLR V series. But that could change, remember not to far back when Northstars powered Pontiacs and Olds.

The LS7 is only scheduled for the Z06 at this time but we already know Bob Lutz mentioned at the Detroit auto show the LS7 might be used in the new Camaro.

I guess we need to define how we wish to interrupt assembled versus made.

For now, I’m just going to enjoy driving my HHR and my GTO and not worry about where they were made or assembled.

Ok, just a few things

A. The Ford Mustang IS a tire shredding muscle car. ALWAYS has been ALWAYS will be. Right now it is one of the best looking cars on the road due totaly to the retro look which is not whoring it in any way, simply showing people what a good car looks like. The record braking sales on both the '05 and the '06 would like to agree with me.

B. The new GTO looks NOTHING like ANY mustang EVER built, EVER.

C. The new GTO is an AMAZING car. I test drove one and WOW...its nice. Is the design a litle bland? Sure, but everything the car offers quickly makes up for it. Obviously GM discovered the error in their ways by slapping a GTO badge on an austrailian car seeing how they are redesigning it.

D. Anyone who has a problem with "retro" looks better get over it cause when it comes to muscle cars....thats the direction EVERYONE is going in. Undeniably, the 2008 Dodge Challenger will easily make the top 5 for best looking cars on the road anywhere. Muscle cars are ment to look like muscle cars. Does that mean that every muscle car should look like they did in the 60's\70's? No. You can update the look of a muscle car and still have it look like a muscle car....the ford mustang is the PERFECT example for this.

When the new GTO comes out....it will be better then this one. Because of the looks? Yes. The GTO now has everything you could want under the hood, and everything you could want in an interior(minus a GPS in dash dvd system that should be an option in any car now). When it comes out in '08, its gonna be right up there with the mustang. GM may be dumb the first time around....but if Ford and Dodge can get it right...so can GM.

Please, do you ever get over it? GTO will eat a mustang anyday. Get real. Mustangs are for teenagers.:banhim:

Please, do you ever get over it? GTO will eat a mustang anyday. Get real. Mustangs are for teenagers.:banhim:

Yep, thats why Mustang GT's are smokin' GTO's all over the map. I love the GTO, but a Mustang stands proud right beside it.

A local norhtern michigan dealer had a 2005 with a $35K sticker. It had it over a year and couldn't get rid of it asking $10K below sticker. It finally "unloaded" it for $24K. I surfed a couple downstate dealers and they had bunches of them on their lots and according to one sales manager I talked to, he told me they had no problem selling them at a couple grand below sticker. Go figure.

No one gets banned unless they are violating AF community guidelines. Everyone is entitled to an opinion as long as it does not violate the rules.

But it looks like PMDresurrected is Ramairgto72 who was permanently banned.

Please, ok, whatever, can you list all the negatives all can think of? Maybe this should be called the Cythia McKinney GTO police slap. Nothing worse than somebody that body slams everything about the new goat. I'm sure you have owned one and drive it every day. Finding on road dead is no excuse. U LOSE

Ok, just a few things

A. The Ford Mustang IS a tire shredding muscle car. ALWAYS has been ALWAYS will be. Right now it is one of the best looking cars on the road due totaly to the retro look which is not whoring it in any way, simply showing people what a good car looks like. The record braking sales on both the '05 and the '06 would like to agree with me.

B. The new GTO looks NOTHING like ANY mustang EVER built, EVER.

C. The new GTO is an AMAZING car. I test drove one and WOW...its nice. Is the design a litle bland? Sure, but everything the car offers quickly makes up for it. Obviously GM discovered the error in their ways by slapping a GTO badge on an austrailian car seeing how they are redesigning it.

D. Anyone who has a problem with "retro" looks better get over it cause when it comes to muscle cars....thats the direction EVERYONE is going in. Undeniably, the 2008 Dodge Challenger will easily make the top 5 for best looking cars on the road anywhere. Muscle cars are ment to look like muscle cars. Does that mean that every muscle car should look like they did in the 60's\70's? No. You can update the look of a muscle car and still have it look like a muscle car....the ford mustang is the PERFECT example for this.

When the new GTO comes out....it will be better then this one. Because of the looks? Yes. The GTO now has everything you could want under the hood, and everything you could want in an interior(minus a GPS in dash dvd system that should be an option in any car now). When it comes out in '08, its gonna be right up there with the mustang. GM may be dumb the first time around....but if Ford and Dodge can get it right...so can GM.

Wow, what a list, how come it's slower?

Mustangs are for teenagers and slow websites like AF. Give me something that will haul a++. A mustang can't keep up with a Grand Prix much less a GTO Holden or not.:screwy:

Right now the LC3 is only scheduled for use in the STS/XLR V series. But that could change, remember not to far back when Northstars powered Pontiacs and Olds.

The LS7 is only scheduled for the Z06 at this time but we already know Bob Lutz mentioned at the Detroit auto show the LS7 might be used in the new Camaro.

The LC3 would cost less if it were built by machines, but it isn't.

Why would a new (rumored 2009 model) GTO use the LC3?

Do you have a source and exact quote of Lutz saying the LS7 might be used in the new Camaro.

I recently saw a new Porsche 911 Cabriolet with a window sticker that said 58 % of the parts on the car came from Germany.

The LC3 would cost less if it were built by machines, but it isn't.

Why would a new (rumored 2009 model) GTO use the LC3?

Do you have a source and exact quote of Lutz saying the LS7 might be used in the new Camaro.

I recently saw a new Porsche 911 Cabriolet with a window sticker that said 58 % of the parts on the car came from Germany.

Oops, I mis-typed. Not LC3 but LS3. The LS3 replaces the LS2 just like the LS9 replaces the LS7. Now that it is 6 months later from the post you quoted, the new GTO and Camaro are scheduled for the LS3, the 2008 Z06 gets the LS9 and the CTS-V (2008) gets the LSA.

Lutz mentioned that possibilty in a podcast that was available from GM's blog at http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/.

Oops, I mis-typed. Not LC3 but LS3. The LS3 replaces the LS2 just like the LS9 replaces the LS7. Now that it is 6 months later from the post you quoted, the new GTO and Camaro are scheduled for the LS3, the 2008 Z06 gets the LS9 and the CTS-V (2008) gets the LSA.

Lutz mentioned that possibilty in a podcast that was available from GM's blog at http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/.

Just FYI.

In case you did not know Emery144 was banned so I would not bother responding to him. AKA Jaguar D-Type and Houseman13 who were banned.

And I forgot Dan Carlson.

Just FYI.

In case you did not know Emery144 was banned so I would not bother responding to him. AKA Jaguar D-Type and Houseman13 who were banned.

And I forgot Dan Carlson.

Didn't know that, thanks.

Well Duh.. Theyre Also Ugly As S***

Here we go again. Maybe we should rename this forum bash the new GTO. American car makers are getting the blood sucked out of them by UAW anyway so who the hell cares?

Define "what is an American car", please....

Is it where the car is designed.
Is it where the buck stops.
Is it where the final assembly point is.

Take the new GTO, designed here, assembled down under, engine built in Canada, tranny in Mexico, electronics from all over, and most body parts from Europe.

The American car is no more ...

If you could choose another country to design and build a muscle car for the yanks, who do you want it to be? The Ukraine, France or Britain?



Whats the real problem with the Aussie Monaro? Is it Pontiac's choice of the vehicle thats not yank built or the car itself?

Sure not many cars are 100% anything, but it's kinda funny how american cars seem to suffer the most from that.

One can even say that the WW2 Jap 0 was American, since the Japs bought nearly all steel from america.

You hurting the Country, the worker and yourself when you buy stuff that Americans make. We don't even make TVs in America, and we made the TV!

Some people who live here dont care about it, the kinda people who buy the chevAussiGTO!


Speaking about hurting your country, the mitsubishi engine was in the plaines that bombed us.