Odometer Rollback on Ebay, Pretty Funny

Here's a laugh, For those familar with the naughty practice of rolling back a GM odometer.. look at this jerkoff on ebay, I pointed out his shoddy work in a ebay email, and his response was pretty hilarious.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4541191193

me: I'm interested in this Chevy, but with General Motors mechanical odometers, the spaces between the numbers should be black. If they are silver or white, the odometer has been tampered with. Aren't you aware of this?

him: We've been in the car business for 44 years and that's the most assinine thing We've ever heard, BIG DUMMY!!!

me: Asinine? Big Dummy? Ha, wow, I hope you get your ass thrown in jail - Take a look at this statement from the U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txs/releases/June2004/040614-Clyburn.htm


him: ARE YOU REALLY THAT STUPID???? DID YOUR MOTHER DROP YOU WHEN YOU WERE A BABY???
BIG DUMMYS LIKE YOU NEED TO BE ON AN ISLAND SOMEWHERE WITHOUT ACCESS TO COMPUTERS!!!!!!!!

did you inform ebay managhement? or any one else?

Bob B

did you inform ebay managhement? or any one else?

Bob B

I searched ebay for "odometer fraud" and the only thing that came up was their "purchace protection" plan, which covers you if you BUY the vehicle... Other than that, I really don't think ebay cares. If any of you guys know how to get ahold of the right department at ebay, yeah, i figure this a-hole should be reported.

Actually... It looks like its just the reflection of the flash. The rolling looks pretty accurate.

Yeah, it looks like the flash, or sun light reflection. You can just see a light reflection on glass just to the left of the odometer. That is what is giving the white look in between the 0 and 9. Either way, the guy is a real D$@K.

There is no way in hell that a vehicle with 99,000 miles on it has an interior that is that trashed. It has to have 150,000-175,000 miles on it.

It is not the reflection. The white is coming from behind he numbers. If the light would reflect between those numbers it would reflect off of the clear plastic and the picture would be more dstorted.

It's the vertical white line that would indicate a rollback right? It just might be a sun reflection since the line is not from top all the way to bottom. It was a valid question to the seller who obviously has no customer relations skills for being in business for 44 years.
EDIT: If it is a sun reflection I think there might be a white line between all the 9's. Definitely questionable.
http://tinypic.com/4g3zno

I searched ebay for "odometer fraud" and the only thing that came up was their "purchace protection" plan, which covers you if you BUY the vehicle... Other than that, I really don't think ebay cares. If any of you guys know how to get ahold of the right department at ebay, yeah, i figure this a-hole should be reported.
You could contact the State Attorney General for the state in which he does business in( It appeared to be NJ?) The NHTSA is the government agency which usually handles matters like this. Too bad the seller didn't offer a CARFAX on this vehicle. A lot of reputable sellers on eBay offer a CARFAX report on vehicles they are selling. That might disclose the true mileage.

Ask for a picture of the brake pedal. I don't know for sure about the newer ones, but the older ones would wear through to the metal at around 150,000 miles. That was a really good way to see if the 5 digit odometers were at 99,000 or 199,000 miles. Higher quality synthetic rubbers would increase the number a bit, and highway driving would reduce the wear. But most of the time, a new pad on the brake pedal is a dead giveaway that something has been done.

I'll have to look at the odometer on my 97 to see if the theory on white in the cracks is true. I think the tahoe looks to be in damn good shape to have much more than 99,000 miles on it. The steering wheel isn't worn at all. We need a good shot at the wheels. On mine, the wheels are coroded around the outside. Also if that is a factory tow package, it still has a lot of paint on it. My truck has 118,000 and the paint on the receiver hitch is almost nonexistant. Maybe they don't put salt on the roads up there? However, the seller got pretty defensive when asked about it.

I'll have to look at the odometer on my 97 to see if the theory on white in the cracks is true...

Does that mean you rolled yours back? :iceslolan

wow... just... wow. I am so going to report this asshole to anyone i can. Here's the rest of the convo -

my response to his last email - being dropped on the head as a baby:

Well, thanks - Now i know you're just a fuc&ing retard, but try to stay with me here, next time you're gonna attempt to rip someone off on ebay, don't take a closeup picture of your obvious half-ass attempt at rolling back an odometer, that's all i'm saying. You didn't have to be a dick about it.

him: Foul Language is an attempt of a feeble mind to express itsself forcibley now I know your a BIG DUMMY , you just passed the Test!!!

me: Hey pal, "you're a BIG DUMMY", not "your a BIG DUMMY" - poor grammar is an overt manifestation of a poor mind.

him: poor mind and VERY VERY deep pockets, what do you make about 20k a year Poor White Boy!

I see what i'm dealing with now, like I said, wow. Oooh how I could respond.. but maybe I should just let this go. hah

If you use the ad's enlarge feature you can see it clearer. It definitely appears to be shiny metal, and not black. The way the numbers aren't lined up could be another telltale sign. The truck doesn't look bad for 100K. Perhaps that was the motivating factor for rolling it back.

Does that mean you rolled yours back? :iceslolan


lol..thats not exactly what I meant. I figured if mine didn't have the white in the cracks his theory of odometer rollback might be correct. But if mine did have different colored stuff behind there then I don't know. I do know that mine has not been rolled back though.

http://www.c-hock.com/fraud.jpg

The silver is on the metal disc in between the numbers is the giveaway - when you're (this is a no no) rolling back the numbers, the discs positions must coinside with each other, if not, you have cocked numbers, and the taletale silver, this is a rush job.

http://www.c-hock.com/genuine.jpg

This is a genuine odo.

How do I know this? I like to take stuff apart. :evillol:

TAKE A LOOK AT THIS ONE...
http://files.automotiveforums.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=41209&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1

Many thanks to 94bigblazer for sharing this info w/ us.This info will come in handy to anyone who reads this next time they go car shopping.VERY VALUEABLE INFORMATION!!!

94bigblazer, this is an Excellent post!!!! It is very good information for people to keep in mind when buying a vehicle!

That one has definatly been rolled back. I think you should definatly report him. And, I would send an e-mail to whoever buys the vehicle...so they can go after him too.

I'm on your side all the way man. That guy selling the Tahoe is a major jerk. Even if he didn't do anything, he was still overly defensive. I went car shopping a lot online before I got my truck a year ago, and none of the odometer pictures had that "white stuff" behind the numbers, and some of them were pretty bad shots.

I noticed that the silver color shows between the zero and the first 9 and between the first 9 and second 9. Why would the other numbers not show the silver color between them? Would the rollback affect the numbers from left to right or right to left? I purchased my 1996 truck from a dealership in 1998 (1 1/2 years old with 39000KM on it) I did not know to look for this "rollback condition", but given the age and the fact that it was sold by the dealer I would not suspect this type of problem. Well I looked at my odometer after reading this post and see a silver color between every number. I now have 176000KM. It doesn't really make sense that a 1 1/2 year old vehicle being sold at a dealer would have a rolled back odometer but I guess anything is possible. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark

I had a good look at my odometer today when I had to console apart. Mine has 3 disks in between the digits from the left side. The black part is painted, meaning there is silver both above and below the digits. The disc appear stationary and its the numbers that roll between them. You don't need to turn the wheels if you misinstall. This way you could set back the 1 hundred thousand digit back to zero. But the silver will show. I'm not sure and the more I try to explain it the more it sounds like I'm writing a primer to break odometer laws. I don't want to that.

What a jerk, I have never heard of this either and thanks for the information. Ill have to look at my trucks odometer and make sure everythings ok hehe.

- Kevin

Well I looked at my odometer after reading this post and see a silver color between every number. I now have 176000KM. It doesn't really make sense that a 1 1/2 year old vehicle being sold at a dealer would have a rolled back odometer but I guess anything is possible. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Mark


I can see silver between every number on mine too. And I know it wasn't rolled back. You can see it when you get really close.

Hey abaird, at least I'm not the only one. (I assume you are the original owner of your vehicle.) This may sound silly, but would there be a difference for odometers in miles or km's? This just seems too wierd.
BTW, the numbers on my odometer line up perfectly, unlike the e-bay one in question.

Mark

i work on cars for a living and after reading this post i looked at my 1990 and its got black spaces between the numbers but when i got to work i looked a 6 different gm's and they all got the silver. i dont think they are all rolled back... i think the the silver or white between the numbers means nothing. and the numbers not being in a straight line.. well thats just old technology.... i agree that the guy is a jerk but i dont agree that the odo was rolled back.

GM designed these odometers to show a white or silver line between the numbers on the odometer if there has been tampering with the odometer.Look it up in your Helm repair manual. It shows the complete details. The ebay picture shows a odometer in which the first three numbers have been changed.

Wow really bad ODO rollback... the numbers are as crooked as the guy selling this truck. I just feel bad foor the poor sob that ends up with this Tahoe. Over the years there seems to be an ever increasing number of scumbag sellers on ebay. I have gotten into many an argument with some of these scam artists about hidden shipping costs and misrepresented items. Every time I see someone pulling this sort of stuff I make an effort to contact the people bidding on the item just to let them know what they are getting into. A good way to do this is to check if the high bidder is selling an item and contact him through the question form. Just like this guy ... sellers tend to get very hot tempered and defensive when you call them on their scams. Everyone here should flood this guys inbox with questions and acusations just to force him to remove the listing. Its just a shame that ebay doesnt help too much when it comes to dishonest sellers like this guy.

mbumgua,

The owners manual which came with my truck also explains the "tamper proof odometer" feature as silver between the numbers. I just don't think my odometer was changed before I bought the truck. It doesn't make sense. The person who is selling the tahoe in question may or may not know what the silver between the numbers means, but he is obviously not a good people person/salesman and his attitude leads one to be suspicious.

abaird, can you confirm that you are the original owner of your vehicle. Then maybe we can figure out why we have the silver color between the numbers on an odometer that was not tampered with.

Thanks,
Mark

lol he could just use a drill and have it go to 1,000,000 miles and reset it to zero and it would be all good

I think that the drill only works if you have an actual cable to hook it up to. Hard to find on vehicles built in the last 15 years or so.

Yeah, mbumqua is right ... the drill thing worked only with a cable driven speedo, not electronic. I tried it once on an old speedo I had around the garage, its a good way to check if its functioning. The only problem with the drill was that it would only make the speedo go about 65 mph ... sooo I suppose it would take a really long time to roll the odo back to zero.

No, I'm the second owner. The first bought it new and he was middle aged with a family so I assume the mileage was correct 75,000, 2 years ago It has 118,000 miles now. Everything on the truck is extremely solid and the only thing that needed replacing was the windshield wiper motor which I have heard that they tend to be shit on these trucks. So, I'm assuming with great confidence that it has never been rolled back. Also the nubers are perfectly straight unlike the ones on the tahoe.

I remember an episode of 60 Minutes that aired sometimes in the '80s tht covered this subject. They spent time with some dealers who rolled back odometers, and showed how easy it was to do, and how easy it was to cover their tracks. The problem is more rampant than you might realize. But thanks to technology, and more effort put fighting against this problem by the car manufacturers, the chances of this being discovered are greater now than in the past, as evidenced by the eBay pic. My experiences with eBay in the past made me realize they are slow to respond to claims like this and seem disinterested in pursuing it when you bring it to their attention.

I started this thread because the truck I drive now is a direct result ebay odometer misrepresentation (in a good way!). Back in January, I won this auction -

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4517412320

The dealer claimed 129,595mi -

So I drove from upstate NY to downstate CT only to find the truck in trashed condition, half the dash screws missing and the cluster practically falling out. Foolishly i didn't run a carfax until I was down there... How about more like.. 247,890mi! Someone had swapped the whole cluster! I was so pissed, angry, hostile... anyway the guy was very cool, and refunded my deposit.

But I'm in CT, already booked a hotel room.. planned on driving that back to NY with my GF the next day. We decide to go for dinner after leaving the dealership, and what do i see parked 5 miles down the road at the edge of a grocery store parking lot with a for sale sign? A Blue 1994 Blazer, Identical. Cheaper. Waaay less miles. I figured it was some kind of sign, because we all know God drives a Chevy Truck. Called the number, talked to the guy, one owner, confirmed with carfax.. Bada boom, sold. CarFax is Goooood. Use it. Ebay has Experian vehicle history report built into their auctions, that is also just as good!

94bigblazer, i had to respond to your post because it sounds familiar to me. Back in December, I was trolling through eBay looking for parts for a 1990 Lesabre I own. I came across an auction for one for $69 for the complete car. I was amazed because of the description and the pics that were in the auction. The car was also located in Wallingford CT. I bid on it and won the auction. I rented a U-Haul car carrier and drove there with a friend a week before Christmas. The car was exactly as the seller said, no rust, and very clean. The vehicle would turn over, but not start. My friend who is also a mechanic and I theorized it might be the ignition coils.( I finally had the chance to work on it lately as our snow finally melted, and indeed it was the coils.), even if it wasn't the price of $69 couldn't be beat for a complete parts car. Apparently the owner didn't wish to put anymore money into it, and donated it to the Conneticut Public Broadcasting Co. who then in turn had the eBay seller sell it through their business. The eBay seller runs his business through a car auction place, and has the eBay site as a side business. I check their auctions frequently as they have some good deals on cars with clean titles that run and start at either $69 or $79. They even had a '65 Buick Wildcat up for auction I would've like to bid on. Their address I think was on the same road as the seller in your eBay auction. Talk about coincidence.( BTW the seller's eBay ID is wecarbay if you ever want to check what they have to offer.)Sorry your experience originally turned out bad, but at least you were able to have a happy ending!

If you look close at the furthest-left "9", you can see bright flash reflections at the bottom of the "9". There is one more reflection on the bottom of the next "9", but not quite as bright. I would have to say that the silver areas in question are simply lighted reflections. It looks pretty obvious to me.

As far as the "flaming war" goes, heck, that is easy to start with anyone. The guy got upset when he's being accused of something he didn't do (based on evidence I see). We'd all get upset in that situation.

Interesting topic though. Just my $.02

As far as the "flaming war" goes, heck, that is easy to start with anyone. The guy got upset when he's being accused of something he didn't do (based on evidence I see). We'd all get upset in that situation.

Interesting topic though. Just my $.02

I don't know. If I was the seller and I was honest, and if I was being accused of something like odometer rollback, I would have proof that, that is the accurate mileage. Whether it be Carfax, a DMV report, or whatever, I wouldn't "go off" on a potential customer. That's not a very good business practice. Especially on eBay.

One picture looked like a glare "conveniently" in the area of question. Yet another picture really does appear to silver/white/not black/etc. In any case, looks suspicious to me. BUT, the IMPORTANT thing to remember (in my opinion) is that only God can judge us. Of course the Supreme court thinks they are God sometimes so that's good enough!! Can't remember who originally posted this but great job. You have made many of us aware (myself included) that odometer fraud could be right in front of us yet we may not even know. My numbers were all lined up when I bought it (as a 2nd owner) but I remember seeing them one out of align just slightly. I have an eye for detail (usually) so I know for some reason it my odometer looked different but I didn't put much thought into it. The numbers are straight again but despite my attention to detail, I am not sure if there is black or silver between the #'s. Guess I'll check this weekend.....

Anyways, back to the guy originally posting this: turn it in if you haven't already, IF thats what you want to do. As far as this dumb ass in question, walk away from it. Hatred is a waste of energy. Personally the way he got so defensive immediatley after you made the aqusation shows his guilt. But, like I said, only God (or the Supreme Court) can judge us. Thank you for making me aware that I'm not as aware as I like to think Im am!!!

As I said before, all my numbers have silver color between them (and line up perfectly in a straight line) and I bought the truck from a GM dealership at 1 1/2 years old with 39000KM on it. Doesn't make sense that the odometer would have been rolled back. I would think a dealership would check for or notice this.

My question is what does it mean if every number has silver between them? Does it mean that it was over 100,000 km in 1 1/2 years and rolled back completely to 000000 KM and accumulated back up to 39000 Km? If the first digit rolled back from only 1 to zero, would the first digit only have silver part way around the drum and not all the way? Would the numbers that are rolled back always not line up?
Just wondering.

Very interesting subject!!

Mark

P.S. How many of your trucks have silver color between the numbers?

I think used car salesmen have a questionable reputation for a reason and buying a used vehicle from a dealer or a private sale is taking a risk. Some people will try hiding anything that will make their vechicle worth less. The responsibility really falls with the buyer you really need to check out everything you can and be willing to walk away if somthing does not make sense. I was taken many years ago by a little old man who was an amputee, I made a bad character judgment and I learned my lession.

One last thing check out all the used dash guage clusters for sale on Ebay. I will bet that the majorty of those are beeing used to alter a vechicles mileage for resale.

You have a point rae61, it took me 2 and 1/2 months to find my truck that I drive now. I walked away from MANY trucks I really liked alot. Trucks I thought I had to have because I swear my name was written on it. But no, it was 2 and 1/2 months until I found my truck. Did I make the right decision purchasing it? I believe so. My truck has done nothing but impressed and suprised me several times by all the use and abuse I have had to put on it. Just as my user name implies: my '98 is still CADILLAKIN' after 100,000+ miles in the little over 2 years I've driven it! Buyer beware, be patient, what your lookin for is somewhere!

Although GM did try to stop/slow down odometer fraud, it is so easy to do, the only way to stop fraud would be to switch all to electronic (harder to bypass). The simple mechanical odometer , can easily be removed by no more than 6 screws/ and the motor that turns it, and turned back with a drill, without disturbing the metal slots in between each number, AND WITHOUT USING A LAPTOP/ OBD CONNECTOR! I caught a guy trying to sell me a 1995 full size blazer saying it only had 153,000kms, i had my speculations, just by looking at the interior, and undercarriage (completely rusted out, beat up), i then looked at the kms and someone had attempted to do so, but there handy srcerwdriver slipped and scrapped through the "1", also you could see the silver shim that fell into place, showing me it had been tampered with, i laughed, shut the door, told him nice try, counted the cash, laughed again, and walked away, its way to easy to trick someone, and i feel bad to the ones who have been tricked, another way is to take out the cluster, and look at the sticker (barcode), it should read the VIN on it at the bottom of the sticker, just trying to keep people aware from those @$$ holes who do this for a LIVING!

How's the odo look on my '92 LeSabre? No silver. Auction car, history unknown. The car was sold as an abandoned vehicle. For 87k the drivers' seat leather is all tore up and the steering wheel worn.. Odo looks OK tho..?