EvoIII 16g'ed

hey, i just got my new EvoIII 16g installed yesterday :smokin: with the mods i have now (none???) i can't tell a huge difference between it and the t25 but hopefully by mid summer ill have the rest of my upgrades bought and installed, but im just stoked im finally getting to drive my car again. it's been down for almost two weeks. but the evo is quite badass, like i said, without supporting mods it's not a huge leap, but i can still tell a fairly nice difference. ony problem i had after me and my mechanic friend installed it was he cut the stock lower intercooler a little short so it wasn't on the j-pipe very well, so when me and another friend took off down an old deserted road to set my MBC, at about 11 p.s.i.... PPSSSSHHHHHH.... the lower intercooler pipe blew off :banghead: but i got under the car and tightened it up as hard as i could and boosted a steady 14 p.s.i. all the way to 100mph (didnt take long at all :naughty: ) but i just wanted to let out all my happiness about my new turbo and my girlfriend was getting sick of me talking about my car so i figured id come and do it here to people who might care. :thumbsup:

congrats! welcome back to the boost!

Good to hear!!! Now ya make me geek even more for my evoIII16g...with the supporting mods!!! lucky bastard!!!!
Of course most females hear bla bla bla when ya talk about this stuff... my wife just gets a look like a "like I care" look...lol

My gf knows more about turbocharging than most Honda guys ;)

Glad you're 16g'd, just give me three months to catch up...

I just put in a EVO III last week. Good turbo! Make sure you don't run 14psi on that stock turbo unless you have race gas. It will run, but not good for the car. You really need some supporting mods before you can start to open that thing up. Full exhaust, BOV, and if you are starting to raise the boost DEFINITLY a new fuel system.

ive got it set at around 13-14 p.s.i. too much?

what will it do to the car?

Stock fuel system can easily do 14 psi on a 16g. 1g pump might be a little risky though, if its not rewired. Stock boost is 14 psi for a 2g. And the flow between the t25 and 16g isnt terribly different at that boost level. Over 15 it really starts to seperate though. On a cool day I couldnt go over 16 psi on the stock pump, with a supra SMIC. If you guys are logging airflow its even easier to tell if you are near the limits. Check my website for the excel spreadsheet that will give you the limit of the pumps in terms of airflow. Assuming pump gas with a spcific gravity of .76 and a target AFR of 11:1, the 1g pump is good to 31 lbs/min (about the MAX on a 14b) and a 2g pump is good to 40 lbs/min (about the max on a 16g). At 15 psi however, airflow is well below what the turbos max out at (~25 psi for 2 liter with stock cams/intake). Hope that makes some sense.

Actually, I have some input as far as logs with DSMlink. I was actually just reviewing them. I got as far as 30lbs a min on mine, and only at 12 or so psi(creeped a little bit). My IDC was around 104%, so they were opened more then all of the time. No knock up there though at all. Plugs look fine. Make note that I have a 255, so that helps a bit. But regardless, an ECU doesn't know fuel pressure, so IDC is something to worry about. I am very conservative, so don't take this as a warning or anything. (I can't afford to screw anything up right now). Kevin said it best how at this boost level, they are way below what they are capable of. You should be ok, just watch for it creeping up, they love to do this.

Stock fuel system will run poorly on a 16g...Knock will be a problem. The stock fuel system was made for a turbo that flows 290 cfm's versus the EVO III's 550. Almost a double in airflow there....The stock pump doesn't flow enough to run a 16g on 91 octane safely. It will run, but you can hit fuel cut pretty easy...Speaking form experiance here.

Stock boost is nowhere near 14psi for a 2g!!! :banghead: The acuator on the t-25 is set around 10-11, with a possible 13 with the BCS mod.

The flow difference is HUGE!! the stock t-25 will support like maybe 250 hp with a huge amount of supporting mods, which would have been better spent on a turbo upgrade. At 14psi, the t-25 actually starts to lose efficency and makes LESS power than at stock levels. The gases coming out of the t-25 will be very hot at these boost levels, and the "gains" are actually detrimental! The hot gas will expand and will actually take up more space than the air coming out of the turbo at ~11psi.

You don't want to run your injectors at 104%, mums the word on 80% for most injectors. The 16g can chew enough gas to take FULL use of a 190LPH fuel pump, which is rated for 400 Hp, which is the max a EVO III flows.

Even on the stock fuel system, your car will run, but much much much more performance can be gained by adding 550's+ and a fuel pump. This is what most people call a "minimum" fuel system to run the EVO III. Ideally, you would want some sort of fuel management, dsmlink or safc II.

Even if you do manage to get by without any fuel cut, if you ran it for very long on the stock fuel system, you would start to get knock and detination. At 12psi you can see from the guy aboves data, that your fuel system is actually over working. Unless you are running some solid 94+ octane, I would HIGHLY reccomend you stay away from anything higher than 12psi on the stock system. However, you will want to get fuel pump and injectors asap! As it was mentioned earlier, the EVO is not very effective at 12psi. It really starts to make power around 16, which can be done with Fuel pump, injectors , and ideally a safc. I wouldent run 16psi for long without fuel tuning. With fuel system, and supporting mods....which you should already have, you can run a 16g at 18psi allll day long. Use better gas for anything above 20ish psi

You will be able to run your turbo without these mods, but in the long.....err medium run really, you will notice your performance goin down the hill as you trash your engine.

16g will def creep, so get out that die grinder and go about 1-2 inches into the o2 housing. Works wonders.

Honestly since you have no mods, it would be stupid to run 14 psi. You need to get some supporting mods asap. musts are exhaust, intake and a upgraded bov because the 2g one is a plastic peice of shit. 1g bov's hold 18psi and can be found for about 40 used. good part. Also, another problem with the EVO is going to be HEATSOAK. at 16psi, you will heatsoak very quickly, so plan on getting a upgraded intercooler (supra smic is good, front mount is usualyl better...either is waaayy better than a stock one)

Never assume because you don't "feel" or "see" anything wrong with your car, that there isn't something goin on. You don't hear knock at all, which a lot of people are confused by, and ends up costing them an engine. Yes, its scary to think about, but would you rather have some shitty fun on a 16g for a month (until your car detonates it self to death) with no supporting mods, or hold off on raising the boost till you get what you need and can run 18 psi all day and begin the mass rapeage of camaros and such.

It's a lot to take in at once, but it takes less time to get all this shit together than you think. EVO III has taken peeps into the 11's. 2004 corvette zo6 = mid 12's :iceslolan

Whathits14, your mod list says EvoIII GT. Is that the Chinese knockoff one? If it is, how's it holding up so far?

i hate the chinese

ive got it set at around 13-14 p.s.i. too much?

Now that everyone sorta agrees on the max airflow/psi you should be pushing, with the stock 2g bov, you won't hold boost above 11psi anyway. What's your gauge read?

My boost is 15-16 so I'm guessing from what your saying that I should be getting a boost controller. I haven't taken out the BCS or anthing like that so why is my boost so high?

my gauge is reading about 13-14 p.s.i. but im gonna back it off a little bit to about 12 after reading what everyone said, and yea my next few mods will be intake injectors fuel pump and 1g blow off valve, but i gotta save some $$$ first, the new turbo broke me, but like i said in my other thread, dont yell at me for making a new turbo one of my first upgrades. my t25 went out and i knew id get an evoIII eventually so i figured why not now? but thanks for all the info and advice

Stock fuel system will run poorly on a 16g...Knock will be a problem. The stock fuel system was made for a turbo that flows 290 cfm's versus the EVO III's 550. Almost a double in airflow there....The stock pump doesn't flow enough to run a 16g on 91 octane safely. It will run, but you can hit fuel cut pretty easy...Speaking form experiance here.

Most of what you said is good, which is not to do too much on an upgraded turbo boost wise until you can log the kind of things that destroy the engine. As said earlier, the stock 2g pump is good to 40lbs/min, which is well above 20psi on even the largest 16gs. When you can log IDC%, my turbo ran a 13.5 at high elevation on stock fuel, with 105% IDC. There are people challenging conceptual theories like the impossibility of going over 100% IDC at the track, the same way people ran 1gs to 10's on 550cc injectors.

Just busting your balls... if you can't log and can't afford to fix broken parts, it's good to stay below 15psi on the 16g. For the record, 2g stock boost is supposed to be 14psi.

My boost is 15-16 so I'm guessing from what your saying that I should be getting a boost controller. I haven't taken out the BCS or anthing like that so why is my boost so high?

If you have mods on a T25 this is possible. That's the desirable boost so I wouldn't worry about it, even though boost controllers are pretty cheap.

i hate the chinese

Hold your tongue next time, this is the only warning for racism.

Stock fuel system will run poorly on a 16g...Knock will be a problem. The stock fuel system was made for a turbo that flows 290 cfm's versus the EVO III's 550. Almost a double in airflow there....The stock pump doesn't flow enough to run a 16g on 91 octane safely.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I highly recomend dropping the CFM arguement. It is a piss poor measurement of airflow. All turbos are not rated the same when it comes to volume flow. For mass flow, there is no room for error. Please stick to mass flow rates, like lbs/min, kg/sec, etc.

Also note that I said that a stock 2g pump IS good for 40 lbs/min, which is more than 99.99% of poeple ever actually hitting that. Me being in the .01 that has of course ;)

Stock boost is nowhere near 14psi for a 2g!!! :banghead: The acuator on the t-25 is set around 10-11, with a possible 13 with the BCS mod.

Actuator is 7-8 psi, BCS sets it to 14 psi. At elast 13 psi, on every stock 2g I have seen with a real guage. With the BCS mod I was spiking to 17 psi, and holding 16, on the stock boost control. With the stock BOV, it was 15 psi.


The flow difference is HUGE!! the stock t-25 will support like maybe 250 hp with a huge amount of supporting mods, which would have been better spent on a turbo upgrade. At 14psi, the t-25 actually starts to lose efficency and makes LESS power than at stock levels. The gases coming out of the t-25 will be very hot at these boost levels, and the "gains" are actually detrimental! The hot gas will expand and will actually take up more space than the air coming out of the turbo at ~11psi.

You are certainly not speaking from experience here. The t25 will do 250 whp with minimal mods. It doesnt take many supporting mods to max out such a small turbo. With a UICP, BOV, and boost controller, I ran 100 mph in the quarter on the T25. Stock pump. Stock injectors. Stock IC. No fuel control. Also note that I did this at 20 psi dropping to 15 by redline. On pump gas 16 psi is the most effective boost level to run. Less boost made less power, more boost didnt add any power, but it certainly did not drop power. This doesnt jive with what you said above ;) Also note that any time boost is dropping with rpm (over 5500 rpm on the t25 at any boost level over 14 psi), you have either maxed out the compressor, or maxed out the turbine side (WG is blowing open frome excessive exhaust manifold pressure due to the restrictive turbo), the jury is still out. I should also mention that your last statement defies the laws of physics, since the gasses coming out of the turbo, regardless of pressure or temperature, will take up the same amoutn of space, since it is in a confined location and gasses completely fill thier container. The exception is in dynamic situations, but it still applies, just not linearly.

You don't want to run your injectors at 104%, mums the word on 80% for most injectors. The 16g can chew enough gas to take FULL use of a 190LPH fuel pump, which is rated for 400 Hp, which is the max a EVO III flows.

I do agree that 100% IDC is the max you want to go. Any more than that and you are leaning out. But, if you are tuned too rich, say 10:1, and IDC goes to 110% and leans you out to 11:1, odds are you are still not going to knock. So it depends on the state of tune. You can max out 950s on a T25 if you run it rich enough :D For the record though, I ran into the 12s on stock injectors over 100% IDC, low 12s on 660s at ~110%, and into the 11s with 850s over 100%. I've had the 950s as high as 90%, but I am upgrading to 1600s to get back down to ~60%.

16g will def creep, so get out that die grinder and go about 1-2 inches into the o2 housing. Works wonders.

Porting the O2 housing actually does very little unless you enlarge the flapper, which I recomend avoiding if you plan to run ~25 psi on the turbo. See my site for more info, and past posts for info about the 34mm flappers blowing open limiting boost to ~19 psi at high rpm.

Also, another problem with the EVO is going to be HEATSOAK. at 16psi, you will heatsoak very quickly, so plan on getting a upgraded intercooler (supra smic is good, front mount is usualyl better...either is waaayy better than a stock one)

What gains did you see on the supra sidemount? I didnt see any with a 16g. Picked up a couple mph on pump gas though. ;)

Not picking on you specifically, just posting on these points because I feel I have some decent personal experience with them over the last 5 years.

I do agree that 100% IDC is the max you want to go. Any more than that and you are leaning out. But, if you are tuned too rich, say 10:1, and IDC goes to 110% and leans you out to 11:1, odds are you are still not going to knock. So it depends on the state of tune. You can max out 950s on a T25 if you run it rich enough :D For the record though, I ran into the 12s on stock injectors over 100% IDC, low 12s on 660s at ~110%, and into the 11s with 850s over 100%. I've had the 950s as high as 90%, but I am upgrading to 1600s to get back down to ~60%.


Which is exactly why my tune is safe. Yes I did make it to 104 IDC%, butr with regard to what Kevin said, this is why I am ok as far my air/fuel ratio. I was in the low ten's (estimated A/F as per DSMlink). Thus, when it did lean out, and only for a small while at higher rpm's, My margin of safety was still there. :)


PS: You beat me to the airflow arguement. I knew that was going to be coming as soon as I saw CFM. ;)

lol, wow this thread has got way confusing, it's interesting to read all this stuff though, maybe ill learn something. but still im a little confused, give it to me in dumbass terms please (yes/no/or do this dumbass) with my mod list, what psi should i set my boost at???

i hate the chinese

DUDE...not cool!!!! :nono:


I agree.. this topic is very informative but yet above my comprehension as for tuning!!! Kinda worries me for when I want to start boosting high... like 18psi and over...