michael moore

what do you guys think of him?

He's an anti-American, fact twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, gutless, brainless, satanic, comunistic, looney left, liberal, lard ass.
To put it real nicely.

How is he anti-American?

How is he anti-American?

Watch FahrenHYPE 9/11 and you'll find out. The way he disrepected those soldiers in his movie is fucking pathetic. Michael Moore is a virus.

He's an anti-American, fact twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, gutless, brainless, satanic, comunistic, looney left, liberal, lard ass.
To put it real nicely.

You got any hard evidence besides "watch so and so movies" to back any of that up. Besides "liberal" and "lard-ass" because thats obvious. I would like you to provide evidence that he is Communist, satanic, brainless and especially gutless. I would also know when he has flat-out lied and cheated.

As for fact-twisting, welcome to politics.

And anti-American? Because he speaks out against the government? I think your way out of line on that whole response Muscletang. Just because you don't like what he has to say. Grow up a little and learn to hear both sides without instantly jumping to the conclusion that your opposing side is "satanic and brainless".

He's criticizing the government.....KILL HIM!!! You know, I believe Hitler had the same sentiments.

I've posted this many times before. I've met and talked with him. He's a moron and has between zero and no common sense. But, he's whats great about this country - complete assholes like him can succeed.

He doesn't believe he's anti-american. He's just more pro-dictator and more pro-socialist then the majority in this country are.













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I would like you to provide evidence that he is Communist, satanic, brainless and especially gutless.

1. He dances that fine line between socialism and communism.
2. I think Yogs answered the brainless part well.
3. As for gutless he makes these movies then cowards off to Europe to bad mouth the U.S.

I would also know when he has flat-out lied and cheated.

He has lied several times in his movies and when interviewed. He then took those lies and cheated people out of their money.

As for fact-twisting, welcome to politics.

I don't call what he does politics. He takes facts and twist them to hold his views and then sells it to make a profit.

And anti-American? Because he speaks out against the government?

Just like Kerry and Clinton he goes off to Europe and mouths the U.S.

I think your way out of line on that whole response Muscletang. Just because you don't like what he has to say. Grow up a little and learn to hear both sides without instantly jumping to the conclusion that your opposing side is "satanic and brainless".

I've heard his side of the story and the other side. The way he calls supporters of Bush "Hateriots" and how he hates Bush with a passion I don't get. Bush may not be the best president but his views and hate for him don't make any sense. I don't like his movies or his views and as a person I don't like him either.

He's criticizing the government.....KILL HIM!!! You know, I believe Hitler had the same sentiments.

Criticizing is alright because I myself do it all the time. This man seems like he's trying to start some sort of anarchy.

Yep, like so many he speaks degradingly of the US and uses the freedoms it offers to make profit. What a 2-faced geek. Just a wanna-be radical but with no charisma.

He's an anti-American, fact twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, gutless, brainless, satanic, comunistic, looney left, liberal, lard ass.
To put it real nicely.
Well from watching various interviews and half of his movie (what can I say its extremely boring when you actually do research on the stuff in it thats false, and I kinda fell asleep cuz of that) I can tell that you are right on all counts except I'm not sure on being a satanist. I mean he very well could be I just havn't seen any evidence of it thus far.

what do you guys think of him?

Here's what I think...

:loser:

But he is entitled to his opinions.

Michael Moore, a propoganda master judging from the amount of money he has made with his material. He's a smart business man.

There was a lot of speculation that the movie, Farenheit 9/11, actually hurt the democratic party more than it helped them during the elections. Smart political supporter?

I will give him credit for having quite an imagination in the realm of conspiracy theories. Anybody think he would have played as well as Mel? :lol:

Quite frankly, the world needs people like Michael Moore to counter the propaganda of the government. Of course anyne who doesn't agree with his views is going to call him a big fat stupid moron. He makes legitimate points that are discounted simply because he is so radical in his methods. Does that make them invalid? Not necessarily. It just makes them less palatable to those who are already on the other side of the fence.

thrasher- thank you for a sincere opinion that is not vicious in its intent, laced with explicatives, presented as 'bait' or aimed as a personal attack on the thread starter.


Even if there are opposing views on any topic people can be civil. Was that ever too much to ask?
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/fingers/fing34.gif

Speaking of Michael Moore I found this in one of my MAD magazines.

Celebrity Cause-of-Death Betting Odds

Shot in Iraq (after being drafted by special Presidential Order)....................................2:1
Killed by bad vibes of millions of Conservatives just thinking about him being dead..........10:1
Massive shock when one of his films actually changes someone's mind.........................20:1
Infection from sweatband-borne bacteria inside unwashed baseball cap he's been wearing non-stop for 10 years............................................. .................................................. ...............35:1
Sexually Transmitted disease........................................... ...................................12,000,000,000: 1

thrasher- thank you for a sincere opinion that is not vicious in its intent, laced with explicatives, presented as 'bait' or aimed as a personal attack on the thread starter.


Even if there are opposing views on any topic people can be civil. Was that ever too much to ask?
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/fingers/fing34.gif

Way too fucking much to ask. :grinno: lol, j/k

Muscletang- my old squad M-60 guy sent me this one-

BTW- I am not a republican or democrat. I'm equally negative about ALL politicians everywhere.


WHAT SENATOR JOHN GLENN SAID:
Things that make you think a little........
1. There were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during January....
In the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January.
That's just one American city, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq .
2. When some claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war,
state the following:
a. FDR...led us into World War II.

b. Germany never attacked us: Japan did.
From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year.

c. Truman...finished that war and started one in Korea. North
Korea never attacked us.
From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,334 per year.

d. John F. Kennedy. ..started the Vietnam conflict in 1962.
Vietnam never attacked us.

e. Johnson...turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800
per year.

f. Clinton...went to war in Bosnia without UN or French
consent. Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has
liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put
nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a
shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking,
but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the
Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.
We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to
destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the
police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chapaquiddick
It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!
Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is
high!
The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.

He'll probably be mostly in hideout until the next election when he will appear again.

He's an anti-American, fact twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, gutless, brainless, satanic, comunistic, looney left, liberal, lard ass.
To put it real nicely.

I agree!


He's criticizing the government.....KILL HIM!!! You know, I believe Hitler had the same sentiments.

Its not that he's criticizing the government its that he lies and twists the facts, then tries to pass them off as the truth. Thats what pisses me off

g. In the years since terrorists attacked us President Bush has
liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put
nuclear inspectors in Libya, Iran and North Korea without firing a
shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people.
The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking,
but...It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the
Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51-day operation.
We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less
time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records.
It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to
destroy the Medina Republican Guard than it took Ted Kennedy to call the
police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chapaquiddick
It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!
Our Commander-In-Chief is doing a GREAT JOB! The Military morale is
high!
The biased media hopes we are too ignorant to realize the facts.
Liberated my ass.
1. Since it's war with Afhganistan, all they did was remove the Taliban from power, they're still around and still fighting, and just changed the currency so one oil lines are constructed...the mighty US dollar grows stronger.
2. Iraq has yet to be "liberated"
3. Bush may have declared the war to be won...but they're still fighting out there.

He's doing a great job lying to all of you making you believe that your doing something good and honorable.

i think he's a joke, what a loser :loser: , his movie farenheight 9/11 was so biased, most of the stuff in that movie were lies, but his bowling for columbine was actually a good movie, some funny parts in there but thats my :2cents:

1. Since it's war with Afhganistan, all they did was remove the Taliban from power, they're still around and still fighting, and just changed the currency so one oil lines are constructed...the mighty US dollar grows stronger.
2. Iraq has yet to be "liberated"
3. Bush may have declared the war to be won...but they're still fighting out there.

He's doing a great job lying to all of you making you believe that your doing something good and honorable.

1. The Taliban is barely there most are gone or in hiding. The old Taliban government is gone.

Why is everything about oil. I have yet to see one link that has said anything about oil.

2. That's a matter of opnion.

3. The war is over! The US soliders declared war on the Iraq government and its army. As far as I can tell Saddamn is locked up and the Iraq army has been disbanded. So yes the war that was waged is over. What remains is terrorism from the insurgents. No formal army is attacking the US in Iraq.

oil lines are constructed...the mighty US dollar grows stronger.

Considering this thread is about Michael Moore it's funny because he is the one who stated this.

How anti-American is it to do what he did? Several thousand Americans are killed on American soil and we fight back to the people who did this. Then this sleeze bag lies and says it's all for oil and nothing for the people of 9/11. I think Michael Moore needs to go over to his brown nosing French fans and stay out of the U.S.

I think it's great to have a film maker in the US that a majority does not like. BUT COME ON...If you want some real propaganda watch C-SPAN. Its amazing that anything gets accomplished in the house or senate at all.
And btw, I am not a fan of our current president (or the last president for that matter) or his policies, BUT, he is the commander in chief. His job is to know more than we know and make decisions we would'nt want to make.(even if he speaks like a 4th grader in a school play)
The fact that people like Mike Moore have the oppertunity to make movies like 9/11 are a testament to our great republic.

How anti-American is it to do what he did? Several thousand Americans are killed on American soil and we fight back to the people who did this. Then this sleeze bag lies and says it's all for oil and nothing for the people of 9/11. I think Michael Moore needs to go over to his brown nosing French fans and stay out of the U.S.
How do the Iraqi's hold any responsibilaty to what happened in New York? Provide me with a direct link to how Iaq qas involved with the 9/11 attacks to back that claim that you're fighting those responsible.
The only one resopnsible is Osama. He should have concentrated on him instead of diong a half-ass job in Afghanistan and then deciding to take over the world.

Raz- the point of John Glenn's words was to put in perspective the "aghast with shock" about casualties or timetables in Iraq relative to other things. Of course that escaped you.

If you want to root for the taliban, good for you! But as far as being a revolutionary martyr goes, you got a long, long way to go to replace this guy.
http://www.wezom.com.ua/banknotes/northam/cuba3a.jpg

everyone should read Michael Moore is a big fat stupid white man http://moorelies.com/book/ it does the best job at making moore look like the ass he really is

and bowling for columbine was horrible. he tried to make it the governments fault for a young boy hooting people just because his poor mom had to commute for work. so it was the governments fault that the boys uncle had a gun that he could get. thats bullshit

If you want to root for the taliban, good for you!
Again, we see here the ignorance of the American scociety. "If you're not supporting us then you're supporting them".

He's an anti-American, fact twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, gutless, brainless, satanic, comunistic, looney left, liberal, lard ass.
To put it real nicely.


:1:

Everything is about oil but somehow, gas Prices have only gone up

sideways- it's always easy and conveinent to blame the instrument- the car, the gun, the dildo, whatever. It keeps people from purposefully acknowledging the fact that some people have flaws. Rationalization. Gotta blame something or someone else!

Raz your little flag is SO childish.:iceslolan

Michael moore is not objective at all in his films (what else do we have to judge him by)

In short:

Michael Moore can kiss my ass.

yea its bullshit how that worksince that little boy shot someone it was apparently the laws fault instead of his gaurdians fault.

Micheal Moore is full of shit, pure and simple.

He's just as untrustworthy as any polititian, a majority of his logic is either flawed or just complete and utter rubbish, anything in his movies/documentries is propaganda from the extreme left, in the same way most election year BS is propoganda.

He'd have been better off making something like Supersize me, he's evidently done a lot of research for that.

He'd have been better off making something like Supersize me, he's evidently done a lot of research for that.

:lol: :rofl: :lol:

tally me for "anti Michael Moore". Ive seen his interviews and all he does is hype up "anti bush" propoganda. He talks about BS like its all factual and then acts really proud of himself. What a load of shit. He acts strange too. Hes just a strange man with a flawed personality and its obvious through his political views. So what if he was lucky enough to be in a position to make a movie about it. He's obviously not very intelligent.


and Raz... the war was waged against "Any country who supports terrorists or harbors terrorists, and gets in our way of stopping them." It was not a specific threat towards any country. Iraq was a hugely terroristic country because of their criminal government, and that has been dealt a huge blow. Now all that is left is a bunch of panzies who just want to strap dynomite to themselves and take out as many people as possible. We can't leave their country like that.

and Raz... the war was waged against "Any country who supports terrorists or harbors terrorists, and gets in our way of stopping them." It was not a specific threat towards any country. Iraq was a hugely terroristic country because of their criminal government, and that has been dealt a huge blow. Now all that is left is a bunch of panzies who just want to strap dynomite to themselves and take out as many people as possible. We can't leave their country like that.

There is no link between al Qaeda and the former Iraqi government. The so called "meeting" between Mohammed Atta and a senior government official never took place. The CIA has gone out of its way to say that the Bush administration was NEVER given any information saying that such a meeting took place. It was a purely fabricated story by our beloved administration.

And I find it funny that before Fahrenheit 9/11, there are no threads on this board ripping into Michael Moore, calling him a big fat arrogant stupid whatever names you want. All I see in this thread is a whole bunch of Republicans very angry with a person who made a political statement that they do not agree with., with no evidence to back up their claims How did he lie in his movie? Which of his facts are made up? Where is there the evidence for these very strong accusations?

I am suprised anyone even cares about Moore any more. He makes a living like many politicians do. He tells half truths and takes fragments of sentences out of context to fit what he wants the public to believe about the person he is going after. It's like watching a politician run a campaign. It's just amusing that his movie did so well at the box office but didn't sway the vote as it was intended to do. I expect another movie out from him just before the next election.

I will start by saying im about as republican as one can be but I am also a very intelligent person who thinks for himself. Bowling fof Columbine was a great movie.... about 80% of it IMHO. He made great points and didnt place blame on specific things, but instead showed possibilities and left it up to the people (with the exception of the NRA being the root of all evil). Some things he took alittle too far, one example being Charlton Heston... this old man has nothing to do with what the NRA does. They say go here and talk and he does. That was a little over the top. IM not for or against the NRA by the way, i dont own a gun but to each their own... BTW it is not a constitutional right to own a gun as an american citizen. But overall a good job and well made documentary.

As for Farhenheitt 9/11 I never saw it. The reasons for this are the fact that he doesnt show possibilities and let the people decide, he tells us what to think... im not a sheep. Another reason was all the inaccuracies and conclusions a little too far fetched IMHO were made. I know this from those who have seen it, reviews, and many articles pointing out falicies within his argument (if you would like specifics look them up on your own, I did at one time but am too busy and have too many other things to worry about than to remember those falacies... doesnt change the fact that they exist) If you believe him or like him then that is your choice to do so, and more power to you. I believe he is a great filmaker but lets his political view interfere with the greatness that is possible.

If he were to give both sides as in depth as he did his side I would respect that and it would be worth my time. To only expose one side of a story is a joke and is not real journalism.

He's an anti-American, fact twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, gutless, brainless, satanic, comunistic, looney left, liberal, lard ass.
To put it real nicely.

OMG I totally agree!!!!! And then the fact that he was pissed that he wasn't nominated for a grammy for Farenheit 9/11 just pissed me off even more! He waltzes around with his stupid video camera saying anything to put down the president and the way this country is run. Critizing the Iraq issues like he did is unbelievable disrespectful to our men and women over there. It's like....if you have SO many problems with this country move the f- out!

Moore used the "investigative documentary-style" cinema themes in his works to find a niche market that appeals to non-mainstream viewers and is now reaping the rewards in $$$. Plain and simple he is exploiting the capitalist system as anyone does to generate profit. Ain't bad, ain't good- just a plain and simple fact. Some agree with his content and some don't. He may have once been a "let's fix this" guy but has become a "how can we make more money" guy.

Hey thrasher- I am not a democrat or republican. You might be surprised but Libertarians' beliefs are contraty to demo/rep clones in may aspects.
http://www.emotipad.com/newemoticons/Big-Smile.gif

even bowling for columbine was propaganda.... i remember seeing the part where he goes to Canada and says nobody locks their doors because its so safe. LMAO he went to sum little community where nothing goes on and says thats how it is in all of canada. And even in that town he prolly found the only people that dont lock their doors. Come to Toronto Mike, then u'll hear about some shootings. A little while ago we had a shooting ON a bus, some guys got in a fight on a bus, and the other guy just started shooting at him on the bus, one innocent 7 year old got hit in the head but i think she lived. But michael says theres no guns in canada because of the laws. lol wat bullshit, Michael Moore is a propaganda machine, thats it.

any criminal who wants a gun can get a gun, its only harder for regular citizens to buy guns, the gun laws are completely retarded in Canada. I can get a glock off the street for like $200, no paperwork, and i dont even need one, think about the criminals that need guns they have no problem what so ever getting one

Meh- in the end, which is more palatable- a fact twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, brainless, looney left liberal independent documentary maker or...

A fact-twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, brainless, looney right conservative PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

http://www.emotipad.com/newemoticons/Rage2.gif Easy now. Don't hurt yourself.

A fact-twisting, lying, cheating, heartless, brainless, looney right conservative PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

Uh huh...say what you want, he's still better than the president before him.

^If your definition of "better" is completely f*cking backward, then yes, he is (but this has been debated ad nauseum). It simply comes down to this- The one thing a right winger cannot tolerate is a far left liberal. And for all the right wingers here who piss and moan and cry "What's the point?" when the left criticizes someone like George Bush (god forbid)...now who's whining? And consequently, who is the man whose actions we should all worry about more, some fat slob film maker, or the man who holds the most important office in the land? You don't like what Michael Moore has to say? Don't watch his movies, free country. Conversely, I don't like what George W. represents- yet I am forced to live with it. (Insert obligatory "move to another country" nonsense here). So stop bitching- if 49 percent of us can tolerate Bush, you can certainly deal with Moore.

So stop bitching- if 49 percent of us can tolerate Bush, you can certainly deal with Moore.

:lol: I like that!

Some of you guys may not like the guy, and he may not like you. :smile:

Free country baby!! This is why god reserved a pair of :flipa: especially for times like these. :lol2:

We put up with clinton for 8 years, and you get Bush for 8. pretty fair trade in my book.

We put up with clinton for 8 years, and you get Bush for 8. pretty fair trade in my book.

Lamehonda!!! How can you say that??? Eeegggaaadddsss!!!

Two years of Clinton (his first two, that is) and eight of Bush is what I would describe as "fair." Besides, I don't remember us whining and bitching... just impeaching...

<snip>
It simply comes down to this- The one thing a right winger cannot tolerate is a far left liberal.


If you define "a far left liberal" as someone who:

- believes most Americans cannot think for themselves
- believes The Second Amendment should be repealed
- believes gun control will decrease crime
- believes being nice to terrorists will guarantee our safety
- believes embassy bombers should not be punished
- believes raising taxes will decrease welfare dependence and social ills
- believes the term "marriage" should be applied to same-sex couples
- believes a bl*wj*b really isn't sex (or else I've been lied to all my life!!!)
- believes a living being can be killed because it's still unborn
- believes the election was rigged
- believes Dubya is doing a terrible job

... then, your statement is true.


<snip>
And for all the right wingers here who piss and moan and cry "What's the point?" when the left criticizes someone like George Bush (god forbid)...now who's whining?


Liberals whine. Conservatives are too busy gloating right now to whine.


<snip>
And consequently, who is the man whose actions we should all worry about more, some fat slob film maker, or the man who holds the most important office in the land? You don't like what Michael Moore has to say? Don't watch his movies, free country. Conversely, I don't like what George W. represents- yet I am forced to live with it.


Fortunately, I and many others were not scammed into watching his creative and imaginative films. I'm still laughing about how HE is laughing all the way to his bank.

If it's a free country, why are you forcing yourself to live with it?


<snip>
So stop bitching- if 49 percent of us can tolerate Bush, you can certainly deal with Moore.


That really is your issue, isn't it? You simply cannot tolerate Bush.

We're not bitching about Moore, simply observing how his fantasy film only served to dig-in the liberals even more :banghead: into their muddy holes, disrespects our soldiers :nono: fighting/dying for freedom, and keeps our eyes rolling as to how 49 percent can be so :grinyes: gullible.

I don't have to tolerate someone that none of us has voted for. Oh yeah, did I mention that michael moore even makes the mentally retarded feel good about themselves again.

We put up with clinton for 8 years, and you get Bush for 8. pretty fair trade in my book.

co-sign this quote

Moore makes money from the people who like him as well as the people who hate him. Moore is news worthy because he stirs emotions from both sides of the fence. I dislike Moore thinking he is an idiot but as long as he stirs emotions he will continue making money and flims. If we didn't react to him he would fade into the background. For or against topics like this just serve to keep him in the fore front. Moore is a problem that can be fixed by just ignoring him into non-existance.

That really is your issue, isn't it? You simply cannot tolerate Bush.

We're not bitching about Moore, simply observing how his fantasy film only served to dig-in the liberals even more :banghead: into their muddy holes, disrespects our soldiers :nono: fighting/dying for freedom, and keeps our eyes rolling as to how 49 percent can be so :grinyes: gullible.

Yes. That is absolutely, without question, my issue. The problem with people such as yourself is you don't bother to take in both sides of an issue before you make up your mind. Does Moore put a leftist spin on things? Damn right. But you do yourself a disservice by not taking some of his points into consideration. Bush is not truth. Moore is not truth. Party-line thinking is for sheep. I make no distinction between Moore's alleged fantasy world and Bush's- a world in which consequences fail to exist, cooperation fails to exist, facts fail to exist etc, etc...


And by the way- it's so very easy to attempt to shame the opposition into submission by claiming that we have disrespected the soldiers who die for us, isn't it? You assume liberals don't also have a personal stake in this stupid war- ie. friends and loved ones fighting and dying for Iraqis' "freedom" (The fallback excuse for war, second to the mystical WMD's/terrorist thing). It's far easier and better fodder for arguement to think we all piss on the flag and shout "Baby-killer!" at the airport. Be careful who you sling that accusation at- you just might hit a liberal who's lost someone close to them, cowboy.

Yes. That is absolutely, without question, my issue. The problem with people such as yourself is you don't bother to take in both sides of an issue before you make up your mind. Does Moore put a leftist spin on things? Damn right. But you do yourself a disservice by not taking some of his points into consideration. Bush is not truth. Moore is not truth. Party-line thinking is for sheep. I make no distinction between Moore's alleged fantasy world and Bush's- a world in which consequences fail to exist, cooperation fails to exist, facts fail to exist etc, etc...


On the contrary, I always take both sides of an issue before making up my mind (you should really stop projecting yourself onto others...). I enjoy doing it because it allows me to form my arguments more easily (keep your friends close... keep your enemies closer). I remind myself that not everything is black and white, rather, much grey in between. That's the real world. Demonizing someone is such a red flag as to what may really be ailing the demonizer -- it's a smoke screen, it's meant to draw attention away from one's self or whomever one is associated with. It was so obvious with the last elections who was the demonizer -- usually the loser.

"consequences fail to exist" -- Securing the region from where much of the world's oil comes from is the long term objective that will ensure stability on a global economic scale (since less than 10% of our oil consumption is from Iraq, it is obvious to those who chose to see that this is for the good of our allies who rely much more heavily on Iraqi oil).

"cooperation fails to exist" -- When the time to talk is used up after accomplishing nothing, it's time to act. Our REAL allies knew this and are still sticking out there with us in a REAL cooperation. The part-time allies will cooperate only if there is something in it for them -- anger and rhetoric after it was decided that rebuilding Iraq would not include them.

"facts fail to exist" -- The war was justified whether you like it or not. Circumstancial evidence. If you're hung up on facts alone, you could be waiting a while as the world passes you by.


And by the way- it's so very easy to attempt to shame the opposition into submission by claiming that we have disrespected the soldiers who die for us, isn't it? You assume liberals don't also have a personal stake in this stupid war- ie. friends and loved ones fighting and dying for Iraqis' "freedom" (The fallback excuse for war, second to the mystical WMD's/terrorist thing). It's far easier and better fodder for arguement to think we all piss on the flag and shout "Baby-killer!" at the airport. Be careful who you sling that accusation at- you just might hit a liberal who's lost someone close to them, cowboy.

No need to make accusations -- our soldiers are disrespected everytime someone like Moore and his believers make money while enjoying the freedom being fought for by their own VOLUNTARY armed forces while at the same time stepping on them, ridiculing them or their objectives. My words were carefully worded to "hit" anyone who does the same, liberal or not. Reactions like yours is to be expected -- it's called shame, cowgirl.

On the contrary, I always take both sides of an issue before making up my mind (you should really stop projecting yourself onto others...). I enjoy doing it because it allows me to form my arguments more easily (keep your friends close... keep your enemies closer).

If there was a shred of truth to this statement you would have watched the documentary, which you previously stated you were not "scammed" into watching. How does one criticize what one hasn't seen?

Demonizing someone is such a red flag as to what may really be ailing the demonizer -- it's a smoke screen, it's meant to draw attention away from one's self or whomever one is associated with. It was so obvious with the last elections who was the demonizer -- usually the loser.

What do I have to hide? In my opinion the man is quite adept at demonizing himself without any help from me or other liberals.

"consequences fail to exist" -- Securing the region from where much of the world's oil comes from is the long term objective that will ensure stability on a global economic scale (since less than 10% of our oil consumption is from Iraq, it is obvious to those who chose to see that this is for the good of our allies who rely much more heavily on Iraqi oil).

Fine. We agree on something. Why, then, make bullshit excuses for going to war such as imaginary WMD's. Be a man and tell the truth. He didn't.

"cooperation fails to exist" -- When the time to talk is used up after accomplishing nothing, it's time to act. Our REAL allies knew this and are still sticking out there with us in a REAL cooperation. The part-time allies will cooperate only if there is something in it for them -- anger and rhetoric after it was decided that rebuilding Iraq would not include them.

Ah yes, our dear, old friends. Our REAL allies like Micronesia, Palau, Costa Rica, Iceland, Ethiopia... I'm absolutely sure there is nothing in it for them in the way of deals, aid, etc. You do realize it has been called the Coalition of the Coerced, do you not?

"facts fail to exist" -- The war was justified whether you like it or not. Circumstancial evidence. If you're hung up on facts alone, you could be waiting a while as the world passes you by.

Who needs facts? Just believe what you're told. Perhaps the scariest sentiment I've seen posted in this forum. Why am I debating...HOW can I possibly have a rational debate with an individual who can't be bothered by facts? Interesting...

No need to make accusations -- our soldiers are disrespected everytime someone like Moore and his believers make money while enjoying the freedom being fought for by their own VOLUNTARY armed forces while at the same time stepping on them, ridiculing them or their objectives. My words were carefully worded to "hit" anyone who does the same, liberal or not. Reactions like yours is to be expected -- it's called shame, cowgirl.

Our soldiers are disrespected every time they are used as pawns in the oil game. They are disrespected when the governments actions cause brave people to be judged unfairly and deployed recklessly. And if you think Moore is out for the money, you'd better check your facts, if you can be bothered with them. I will surely enjoy the freedom not to fight for something that goes against every single moral fiber in my body. I have zero shame in that. If that makes me a cowgirl, it's quite fitting...because I feel like I've been bent over a fence post and f*cked by you and your cowboy buddies.

If there was a shred of truth to this statement you would have watched the documentary, which you previously stated you were not "scammed" into watching. How does one criticize what one hasn't seen?

I've seen the trailers...'twas free.

What do I have to hide? In my opinion the man is quite adept at demonizing himself without any help from me or other liberals.

Fine. We agree on something. Why, then, make bullshit excuses for going to war such as imaginary WMD's. Be a man and tell the truth. He didn't.

That you're ashamed to have contributed to the war cause and effort by driving a vehicle that burns oil while you enjoy the American way of life? Comes as a shock when you finally realize it, huh? Don't be such a hyporcrite about it... you're not alone... when you demonize him, you demonize yourselves...

Ah yes, our dear, old friends. Our REAL allies like Micronesia, Palau, Costa Rica, Iceland, Ethiopia... I'm absolutely sure there is nothing in it for them in the way of deals, aid, etc. You do realize it has been called the Coalition of the Coerced, do you not?

Ahhh... sarcasm. You do realize that sarcasm is mainly used by :loser: losers, do you not?

Who needs facts? Just believe what you're told. Perhaps the scariest sentiment I've seen posted in this forum. Why am I debating...HOW can I possibly have a rational debate with an individual who can't be bothered by facts? Interesting....

I've asked myself that about individuals who can't be bothered by reality. Fascinating...

Our soldiers are disrespected every time they are used as pawns in the oil game. They are disrespected when the governments actions cause brave people to be judged unfairly and deployed recklessly. And if you think Moore is out for the money, you'd better check your facts, if you can be bothered with them. I will surely enjoy the freedom not to fight for something that goes against every single moral fiber in my body. I have zero shame in that. If that makes me a cowgirl, it's quite fitting...because I feel like I've been bent over a fence post and f*cked by you and your cowboy buddies.

:shakehead Pathetic... Who do you think first used military intervention to protect the US' interests overseas? Military personnel know this answer as part of their modern history lessons, our volunteer armed forces included. So now you're going to shift the blame of disrespect onto them because they signed up knowing they would be "used as pawns in the oil game...?" That's even worse, "no shame." You seriously ought to stop projecting yourself onto others -- you really "OPENED" yourself up with that last sentence of yours...

Are ALL liberals this naive about US foreign policy, US military, and US foreign interests, or do they just "play" dumb?

I've seen the trailers...'twas free.

Translation= Saw the cover, know the book...

That you're ashamed to have contributed to the war cause and effort by driving a vehicle that burns oil while you enjoy the American way of life? Comes as a shock when you finally realize it, huh? Don't be such a hyporcrite about it... you're not alone... when you demonize him, you demonize yourselves...

Interesting. A perverted, right wing version of Ward Churchill's "Little Eichmann" anaology. Our entire short-sighted way of life, unfortunately, is based on oil consumption. To suggest that I and other liberals who oppose the war go live with the tribes in New Guinea (or some other primitive culture not resigned to guzzling oil) is childish. Even Churchill acknowledges that. A more mature approach is to stay here, push for advances in alternative energy technology and keep the oil-hungry and reckless politicians in check. In any case...no guilt here.

Ahhh... sarcasm. You do realize that sarcasm is mainly used by :loser: losers, do you not?

And name calling by those who cannot formulate a rational, thoughtful response.

:shakehead Pathetic... Who do you think first used military intervention to protect the US' interests overseas? Military personnel know this answer as part of their modern history lessons, our volunteer armed forces included. So now you're going to shift the blame of disrespect onto them because they signed up knowing they would be "used as pawns in the oil game...?" That's even worse, "no shame." You seriously ought to stop projecting yourself onto others -- you really "OPENED" yourself up with that last sentence of yours...
Are ALL liberals this naive about US foreign policy, US military, and US foreign interests, or do they just "play" dumb?

I would suppose many of us would simply like the truth when their loved ones are sent to war. And those soldiers deserve the same courtesy. My conscience is quite clear. If anyone here should be ashamed, it's the person who sees soldiers as expendable bodies for any purpose because they volunteered. I know many soldiers personally who agree with me...so your liberals vs. soldiers argument doesn't hold water. But then again, maybe they are just dumb/naive like me.

Translation= Saw the cover, know the book...

Interesting. A perverted, right wing version of Ward Churchill's "Little Eichmann" anaology. Our entire short-sighted way of life, unfortunately, is based on oil consumption. To suggest that I and other liberals who oppose the war go live with the tribes in New Guinea (or some other primitive culture not resigned to guzzling oil) is childish. Even Churchill acknowledges that. A more mature approach is to stay here, push for advances in alternative energy technology and keep the oil-hungry and reckless politicians in check. In any case...no guilt here.

And name calling by those who cannot formulate a rational, thoughtful response.

I would suppose many of us would simply like the truth when their loved ones are sent to war. And those soldiers deserve the same courtesy. My conscience is quite clear. If anyone here should be ashamed, it's the person who sees soldiers as expendable bodies for any purpose because they volunteered. I know many soldiers personally who agree with me...so your liberals vs. soldiers argument doesn't hold water. But then again, maybe they are just dumb/naive like me.

You are SO in denial and so naive... Keep blaming others for your own misplaced perceptions and conclusions. Keep feeding your imaginative mind with more "suggestions" which, interestingly, reflect what is really eating at you (f*cked up the *ss, live in New Guinea...). I've had loved ones go to war and not come back. The ones that came back said they'd do it again. I and others are here to keep the oil-hungry liberal hypocrites in check. Time to grow, child.

Ok enough of the insults or I will close this topic.