The cost of illegals

I found a link talking about the cost of heath care for illegals. Might be something to read when you have time.

http://www.vdare.com/rubenstein/050407_nd.htm


Here is a link for another one. This was his this in it.
Illegal immigration is also costing taxpayers. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, welfare payments, including food stamps, paid to illegal immigrants in Arizona cost $4,698,000, just in 2001.
http://www.dailybreeze.com/opinion/articles/1451222.html


Of course the illegal Mexicans are a cheap source of labor for the compainies that hire them but the taxpayers are the ones that offset that cheap labor by paying for their mediical and welfare costs. If these companies paid the benfits that the illegals get they wouldn't be so cheap anymore.

If you lived in the Southwest, you'd know we hear and read this stuff all the time about how the illegals drain the resources. Couple hospitals actually closed in SO. Cal. due to cost burdens. Sad.

If you lived in the Southwest, you'd know we hear and read this stuff all the time about how the illegals drain the resources. Couple hospitals actually closed in SO. Cal. due to cost burdens. Sad.

We've had to close a few emergency rooms, here in Arizona, because they could not afford to operate anymore, from people coming in, with no intention of paying, and yes, they were mostly illegals. They can't turn back people piece-meal, and ended-up turning everybody out.

Also, check this link to see both sides: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/22/eveningnews/main662587.shtml

Notice how Proposition 200, which is designed to lessen the benefits given to illegals, was voted on by half the Hispanic voting population, for those of you (narrow-mindedly) claiming racism.

Illegals are people too.

You guys are acting like they are vermin.

They aren't vermin, but they don't belong in the US. If they want to be here then they should fill out the paperwork like a good deal of hispanics that I know, otherwise they are just abusing our system and making the hispanics that do do what theyre supposed to do look bad.

I currently live about an hour from the Mexican border so I can see all of the problems which illegal immigration brings. Right now there is, on average, a SWAT raid every night in my quaint little neck of the woods trying to break down the crack business that has started to spring up do to illegals smuggling it across the border. It pisses me off that there is an entire half of my town that I dont feel safe in because illegals have turned it into a slums.

Basically if they want the benefits of being in the US they need to do it by a legal means.

Illegals are people too.

You guys are acting like they are vermin.

Well when you turn on your TV and see talk shows with illegals on there complaining that they aren't getting any benifits from our government and people are bending over backwards for them you get a little mad.

This may upset a few people but a couple of years back when that little girl was killed here by getting the wrong blood in a kidney transplant shouldn't of happened. If you don't remember an illegal six year old girl was brought up here because she needed a kidney transplant or she'd die. Her family put her in the hospital and the doctors gave her the wrong blood type during the operation and she died.

To me she shouldn't of got the kidney in the first place. I don't know how organ donors go but I'm pretty sure it's all in the U.S. Organs are taken from U.S. citizens and given to U.S. hospitals. I don't think organs from U.S. citizens go to Canadian hospitals. Anyway, I find it very wrong for an illegal to come up here and go taking things that, to me, belong to U.S. citizens. I'm sorry if this upsets somebody but a kidney is taken and it either goes to a U.S. citizen or an illegal then the illegal is out of luck.

Now if I'm wrong and organs are traded between the Canada, Mexico, and the U.S. then why did she come up here? Why didn't she just stay in Mexico and get her organ down there?

Let me put it this way:

If you wanted to be in the US and couldn't get in legally, would that stop you? I think not.

The media likes to show people complaining about everything so don't get mad at a few immigrants on the tv.

Let me put it this way:

If you wanted to be in the US and couldn't get in legally, would that stop you? I think not.

The media likes to show people complaining about everything so don't get mad at a few immigrants on the tv.

Lamehonda if I couldn't get into the US legally yes I would of stopped there and when someplace else. Maybe New Zealand I heard they take anyone in and offer them everything that the US doesn't. I can say this because I am an immigrant who learned the english language and became a US citizen.

The US accepts many thousands of aliens yearly. Its not that hard to gain legal entry.

I work for a living and pay my taxes, pay for my medical no one is here to hand me anything. Everytime I go to the doctor or the hospital I have to pay no free ride for me or my family.

I have no problem with Mexicans coming here legally as long as they pay there bills and become hard working citizens who speak the english language.

How are they going to get to New Zealand? Travel costs money.

How are they going to get to New Zealand? Travel costs money.

And you think these illegals come to the US for free?

I know that some of them get here for a lot cheaper than a plane ticket.

Illegals are people too.

You guys are acting like they are vermin.


Let me put it this way:

How about a person you don't know moves into your house without permission. He takes over a bedroom, eats your food, uses your shower, borrows the car without asking, and takes your money to pay for things he needs.

Would you want him out or not?

I don't have to share my house to share my country.

I am proud to live in a country where people really want to be.

Illegals are people too.

You guys are acting like they are vermin.

They're NOT vermin. Neither are murderers and child molesters. They're all people. People who have broken laws. Especially the coyotes who encourage illegals with false hopes, only to enslave them.

Murderers and Child molesters (probably) become who they are because of bad upbringing.

Coyotes and illegals become what they are, because of a horrible Mexican government.

Why the fuck is it that Americans are not only getting something taken away from them, but we get fucking blamed, not only for abuses against immigrants, but getting flack for wanting them out (or at least not coming in).

What illegals are costing the US:
http://www.cis.org/topics/costs.html

Basic facts, and numbers:
http://www.cis.org/topics/illegalimmigration.html

They abuse each other:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2002/back702.html

I don't have to share my house to share my country.

I am proud to live in a country where people really want to be.


But are you proud to live in a house where people really want to be?

I guess you didn't understand my comparison:

Country = house

Illegal immigrants = person moving into your house

Services & not paying taxes = your money, food, shower, car


Can't you see that someone moving into your house and stealing your possessions without permission is the same as people moving into the country and working without paying taxes, using public services, etc without permission?

Yeah, they're just regular people not career criminals.

Carrrnuttt- Over her in California the concept is that Arnold ought to ask for federal money to help out since it's draining the state like crazy and the feds, who run the Border Patrol and Immigration & Naturalization Dept., ain't doing enough.

A good point of view is that in healthcare you can't turn people away because later their health will worsen and then they'll be in an ER at 10 time the care rate to fix what's wrong. It's a damned if you d, damned if you don't. I like the idea of getting money from the feds!

The media likes to show people complaining about everything so don't get mad at a few immigrants on the tv.
Actuall I'm more mad at the few thousand immigrants living in my town than those shown on TV. I could really give a shit about how the media portrays illegals, since I happen to know quite a few.

Keep in mind, living in a state with no foreign borders, you probably do not realise just how bad of a problem illegal immigration is.

Or, maybe it just looks like more of a problem to you because you live on the border.

I used to live in southern Texas and didn't really notice a huge problem there.

Well if I'm seeing problems in my town 100mi from the border I'd be willing to bet most other towns that close to the border are noticing the same problems.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter if its only a problem for border areas as it is a problem that should not be happening in the firstplace. If you can show me any evidence that gaining legal entrance into the US is a problem then I'll concied defeat. Problem is that it is relatively easy to gain legal entrance into the US whether it be by green card, citizenship, whatever, and by doing it legally you gain access to all of our wonderful programs without being a burden on our society.

Maybe the illegals don't know it is easy because many of them have no way to find out or can't read etc. Do they have informational signs on the border just to be sure these people know there are other options?

Maybe the illegals don't know it is easy because many of them have no way to find out or can't read etc. Do they have informational signs on the border just to be sure these people know there are other options?

If you are so dead-set on making life better for these people, why don't you go file a petition to their respective country's government, so they don't have to travel, and risk getting killed by the elements, and bandits, just to find a life?

What? Too lazy? Expect ME, and even the tax-paying people in YOUR household to fork-out even more money to help subsidize the healthcare, and the lost wages?

You have ANY idea how high income taxes are in AZ, and where a large chunk of it is going? That's just the state.

Didn't you guys hear about the comic book-style informational books the Mexican government printed that gives tips to help border crossers?

Maybe the illegals don't know it is easy because many of them have no way to find out or can't read etc. Do they have informational signs on the border just to be sure these people know there are other options?
Now you're just digging.

If someone wants to cross the border then chances are that they have the ability to find out how to do it legally. Every single illegal that I've ever met, which is around 100+ since many attend my school, knows how to gain citizenship and many of them could quickly since they've been in the US since they were 2. The only thing stopping them is, and believe it or not a few of them have actually told me this, laziness. If you're too lazy to do it legally then you don't deserve to be here as you obviously don't care enough.

Didn't you guys hear about the comic book-style informational books the Mexican government printed that gives tips to help border crossers?
Ya I heard about it, John and Ken great show, I still don't understand why Bush isn't pressuring Fox to stop printing it considering it encourages people to violate our sovereignty. If theres one thing that pisses me off about Bush it would have to be how he handles immigration and Fox.

Didn't you guys hear about the comic book-style informational books the Mexican government printed that gives tips to help border crossers?

Not to mention that Vicente Fox does an annual trip to the border towns to greet returning border crossers as heroes?

Did I mention that one of Mexico's largest source of "financial injection" is the money that illegals send back to Mexico?

lamehonda has a point. There are signs for anyone that cares to read or can read about the fact they're about to enter the country illegally. I think he was musing that they should also say "go home, there's nothing for you here but explotation, arrest and deportation."

It seems some people think that illegal immigrants are no problem. There are the people arguing that they are illegal, and causing problems for American citizens, and the other side says, "What are you complaining about? Theres no problem."

Lets not forget that it is illegal for a reason. Why have border patrol on a small percentage of the border, then leave the rest wide open? If there are drug sumgglers getting busted at the gates, then imagine how many of them say, "Why don't we just walk across where they have no protection?" All of you who are asking where the problem lies, why don't you actually try to explain the point you are trying to make, rather than test those who oppose easy illegal immigration. Are you saying it doesn't matter that anyone can cross the border unscathed? If not, are you saying that Border patrol in some places is enough, and we should just let them walk into our country in other places because it doesn't matter?

If you are countering the argument, then what is YOUR argument?

Illegals are people too.

You guys are acting like they are vermin.

No, not vermin. Freeloaders.
However, the biggest problem is not what these people are doing to our country - but the long term failure they're sentencing to their own country by choosing the easy way out.
Most of these people don't stay in the U.S. they go back after a couple years, with all the money they've earned - stunting Mexico's economy.
Now if Nafta hadn't set a maximum wage limit in Mexico that is entirely too low, this would be less of a problem. But when the best jobs are paying about $6 a day - why not cross the border and work for some farmer for four times that much each day?
If someone wants to cross the border then chances are that they have the ability to find out how to do it legally. Every single illegal that I've ever met, which is around 100+ since many attend my school, knows how to gain citizenship and many of them could quickly since they've been in the US since they were 2. The only thing stopping them is, and believe it or not a few of them have actually told me this, laziness. If you're too lazy to do it legally then you don't deserve to be here as you obviously don't care enough.
Actually, large part of them can't get citizenship because they don't have the proper paperwork to do so - alot of people in Mexico (not surprisingly) don't even have birth certificates, which can make things pretty difficult.

No, not vermin. Freeloaders.


I think the freeloader market has already been cornered in this country :loser:

I can't believe that people think it is easy to get into this country by filling out paperwork. I bet that 9/10 people who have posted in here would find themselves swimming the Rio Grande if they tried to get into this country from Mexico.

Trouble is, none of us know, since most of us that are in the US were born here. Wait a sec, Gotti immigrated. Where's the Gotti-man when you need him?

Like I said, the grass is always greener on the north side of the rio grande

You guys seem to want to keep it that way.

Trouble is, none of us know, since most of us that are in the US were born here. Wait a sec, Gotti immigrated. Where's the Gotti-man when you need him?

I also immigrated legally by filling out the correct paperwork and waiting the required time. BTW I had to learn to speak english no one offered to print documents in my native language.

Posted by lamehonda[/b]] Like I said, the grass is always greener on the north side of the rio grande

You guys seem to want to keep it that way.

You say that like we have some say in the Mexican government. Fox is pushing for the US to accept the illegals and why not? What would happen if all the unemployed Americans moved to Mexico? How would that affect the US and Mexico? Mexico is getting rid of there tax burden and pushing that burden onto the US.

That would be sweet to move to Mexico if you were unemployed.

I would rather be unemployed in Mexico than the United States. Nice and warm, Don't have to spend any money you don't have to heat the place.

You've never been to Mexico have you?

Like I said, the grass is always greener on the north side of the rio grande

You guys seem to want to keep it that way.
Are you actually criticizing us wanting to preserve the quality of life north of the border?

No criticism, just making statement.

Sounded like criticism. I don't think anyone is saying that foreigners of any kind shouldn't be allowed in. What's being said is that they shouldn't be allowed in illegally.


I also immigrated legally by filling out the correct paperwork and waiting the required time. BTW I had to learn to speak english no one offered to print documents in my native language.

So how much paperwork was involved, and how long did you have to wait? I'm fairly sure there was a great deal of persistence and patience involved. Well done BTW, English is a tough language to learn.

One of the things you guys are missing is that it is not only Mexicans that are coming illegally. ALmost evry week someone at the Port of Los Angeles finds a cargo container with a bunch of Chinese in it and I wonder how many made it to to LA and other ports and got through.


BTW- you can take your drivers test in Southern Califronia in about native 15 languages.

I am also an immigrant in this country, and came in legally. I remember those long hours waiting in line at the INS, but the whole time we were here, we were here legally. Everyone in my family has jobs, pays taxes, has healthcare, we have a new house, and several cars. This was all done legally over 5 years. It can be done.

People smuggling has become a whole new industry. I'm glad that there are many with enough fortitude to do things the right way.

One of the things you guys are missing is that it is not only Mexicans that are coming illegally. ALmost evry week someone at the Port of Los Angeles finds a cargo container with a bunch of Chinese in it and I wonder how many made it to to LA and other ports and got through.
You're right, that is a big problem as well. The reason we're focusing on Mexican immigration though is because the number of mexican illegals is much higher than that of Chinese or ethnicities.

or, is it because the chinese are more welcome because they are stereotypically smarter and have a better work ethic?

Stir the pot, lamehonda.

It's because illegal Mexican immigrants outnumber illegal Chinese immigrants by a great number, and they have a much easier time getting into the country.

or, is it because the chinese are more welcome because they are stereotypically smarter and have a better work ethic?

Actually, if you have the resourcefulness, and the patience to go through the legal immigration process, I am positive that you will be a success in this country, and I will be more than glad to welcome you.

If you can't even do that, you are nothing more than a mooch, and I want no part of you.

How do I know? My own dad went through this process about 40 years ago, and he is now (and has been for a while) a successful executive for an insurance underwriting company in California.

THIS is how most of Arizona's own community of (legal) Hispanics feel. The voting on our prop 200 here is a good example, where half the Hispanic voting population turned out to vote yes on reducing benefits for illegals.

uhhhh no fun without naki tearing at every word

Lickem it's just so easy to scroll past the posts of someone you don't care to read. All that guys did was fug things up. You couldn't have a give and take like this without weinerman in the armpit of the world telling us right here in the Southwest how he knew all about it and how we were all decadent capitalists with weak morals and an ignorant president or whatever. Yeah, right!

carrrnuttt- that's exactly the way any legal Hispanic with just a little education feel in California too.

What about all the jobs illegals do? Are your kids going to make us $.99 burgers or do any of the other minimum wage jobs? No, not for long anyway. If you eliminate illegals from the country the price of all the crap we want has to go up. So you can't say their only freeloaders because there's also a benefit to everyone that buys anything or uses any service. Most are also paying taxes to "our" government.
I'm not saying this justifies being here illegally, just stating what seems to me to be an economic fact. :dunno:

actually, the economy just recycles money. We are losing out when they are mailing checks to mexico.

uhhhh no fun without naki tearing at every word

Yes, too bad he was continually insulted until he left.


THIS is how most of Arizona's own community of (legal) Hispanics feel. The voting on our prop 200 here is a good example, where half the Hispanic voting population turned out to vote yes on reducing benefits for illegals.

I agree that it makes a very strong statement when the legal Hispanic community speaks out against the illegals.

What about all the jobs illegals do? Are your kids going to make us $.99 burgers or do any of the other minimum wage jobs? No, not for long anyway. If you eliminate illegals from the country the price of all the crap we want has to go up.

The .99 burger places are designed to take someone with no experience, and have them working in less than an hour. High turnover is expected and desired by these places, as they usually don't start paying for benefits until after a year. It IS unskilled labor. I'd rather have a teen that is legal working that job, rather than someone illegally in the country. There is no shortage of teens in this country who need a first job; my first job was in a fast food restaurant, no one else would hire me without experience.

I'd rather have a teen that is legal working that job, rather than someone illegally in the country. There is no shortage of teens in this country who need a first job; my first job was in a fast food restaurant, no one else would hire me without experience.
I would rather have a legal person working here also. But you can't argue with the fact that there are thousands of unskilled low paying jobs not being filled by legals. That's why illegals are streaming across the border. To make money.

Hey Fred hope you're just being funny. Our long lost little troll was the most demeaning and insulting person on this forum. He took anything negative for the sake of arguement. We're discussing this topic without some jamoke at the opposite end of the planet sniping about things her can't possibly know anything about and telling us how ignorant we are.

AlmostStock- the minimum wage job thing has me in a wavering position. I pumped gas(back in the days before self service), washed dishes, was a busboy, cooks helper and so on, in my younger days, for minumum wage- like $1.35 at the time. We didn't compete with illegal foreign adult males for these jobs.

On one hand these folks do pay sales taxes but not income taxes. If they have a bogus, stolen social security number they pay into SOMEONES'S account. They send every penny they can home. They generally do not have auto insurance along with any health insurance so any debts incurred go unpaid by them and are picked up by society.

Today I wonder if kids would do the jobs they generally get. No kid I ever knew was a casual day laborer or farm hand. Other jobs they do get were basically originally oriented for kids or people with part time schedules. So we have adults working for student level pay. That sucks too since the illegals can only get menial jobs and can never break out to really good income.

The main thing that keeps it a vicious circle is the fact that employers hire undocumented people. If they quit doing it either the illegals would go home or never come at all.

I wonder why we hear "these people do jobs Americans don't want to do." I say Bullshit. I did those jobs and other Americans filled all the others too before some companies got way too greedy and lowered the pay to purposely attract illegals.

We only have to go back a few decades to see that we got along real well without the "burning need" for illegal labor.

Hey Fred hope you're just being funny. Our long lost little troll was the most demeaning and insulting person on this forum. He took anything negative for the sake of arguement. We're discussing this topic without some jamoke at the opposite end of the planet sniping about things her can't possibly know anything about and telling us how ignorant we are.

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We only have to go back a few decades to see that we got along real well without the "burning need" for illegal labor.


Part funny, part serious. Although he was insulted until he left, a lot of it was deserved. You have to be able to see both sides, examine and admit evidence when it's shown to you, and at least consider that your point of view may be incorrect. I just hate to see anyone get ganged up on every time they speak, is all.

There are usually hardheads on both sides.

In any case, there's always been some illegal labor along the borders, but it's spread now to the point that it is becoming a huge problem -- and not just along the borders.

One problem with low wage positions, is the attitude that "I'm too good to work that job, I have money, I have a cell phone, I have a car" (that parents bought) so many younger folks think that they should start out at 40K a year right out of high school. They need to understand that ain't happening, except in a very few cases.

And, there wouldn't BE illegals working here, if employers had the integrity to not hire them; so I think the employers are to blame for accepting illegals into their workforce, and encouraging the system to become what it is today.

They're worshiping the almighty dollar, they can hire someone illegal for 1/2 of what they'd pay someone legal, and so they do.

There should be severe penalties for employers that employ illegals.

I would rather have a legal person working here also. But you can't argue with the fact that there are thousands of unskilled low paying jobs not being filled by legals. That's why illegals are streaming across the border. To make money.

You are right - there ARE thousands of low paying jobs not being filled by legals.

But see my previous post -- if the employers wouldn't hire illegals, they would have to hire legals for the position.

And, there wouldn't BE illegals working here, if employers had the integrity to not hire them; so I think the employers are to blame for accepting illegals into their workforce, and encouraging the system to become what it is today.

They're worshiping the almighty dollar, they can hire someone illegal for 1/2 of what they'd pay someone legal, and so they do.

There should be severe penalties for employers that employ illegals. There already are severe penalties for hiring illegals so most companies are very careful not to hire them. Many times companies don't even know employees are not legal because of fake paperwork. Just like companies we all worship the almighty dollar every time we shop for the lowest price, irregardless of why that price is so low. If the company is selling their stuff cheaper because they hire illegals and we shop there, then we are also encouraging the system.

That's true enough. I guess there should be better reporting and tracking.

How do we know when an item is produced by an illegal? We really don't.

But you can't argue with the fact that there are thousands of unskilled low paying jobs not being filled by legals. That's why illegals are streaming across the border. To make money.

Supply and demand, it works. Take out the illegals and the economy would fix itself. The unfilled jobs would get higher paying increasing the price of the goods they produce. Or the prices would fall because the demand isn't there. Either way I'm ok with.

I worked as a teen making 3.25 a hour, paid for my own medical insurance.

Bingo! My starting minimum wage was even less than that, but it seemed like a lot at the time. :)

Well Fred we now see a variety of people returning to this forum that obviously were bufalloed by one attacking individual. "Ganging up" can also mean and average of 13 posts a day for 4 years using verbally abusive language to nearly every person posting their thoughts on a topic. That's my last thought on one nasty individual.

San Diego- today the US Navy found a contractor had half of his 36 workers to be illegal aliens. They had bogus documentation that gained them identification to enter the base.

Wasn't it carrrnuttt who mentioned the possibility of terrorists using the southern border? Now here's a perfect example of how to do it. All that's left to the imagination is the terrorist deed of your choice!