Failed Emissions Test
1534dover
04-04-2005, 04:32 PM
The daughter's 88 Buick Type T Electra failed the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality vehicle inspection program. Specifically, the acceptable level of total hydrocarbons(THC) is 2.00. Hers is 10.65. Pardon me, I misread the form before. The total acceptable level of carbon monoxide (NOX) is 3.70. Hers is 0.11 and passes. The total acceptable level of carbon dixoxide (CO) 32.0. Hers is 296.9.
How do we fix this?
How do we fix this?
tman
04-04-2005, 04:37 PM
Find an inspection station that doesnt care what shape the car is in as long as they get their 10 bucks.
Or replace the O2 sensor and catylitic converters. They rarely go bad, but with levels that high, idk.
Or replace the O2 sensor and catylitic converters. They rarely go bad, but with levels that high, idk.
yogi_123rd
04-05-2005, 03:05 PM
The figures you have posted don't make sense. You should have four catagories....
Hydro Carbons: THC
Carbon Monoxide: CO
Nitrous Oxide: NOX
Carbon Dioxide: CO2
The pollutants are CO and NOX because the desired result of complete combustion is CO2 and H2O. Usually there is no limit to fail on in the CO2 catagory which makes me suspicious of your figures.
Question: Is the "Check Engine Soon" light coming on periodically? This probably indicates the oxygen sensor is failing. This sensors tells the computer to cause the engine to produce hotter exhaust gases. The catalytic converter needs heat to work effiently.
High THC and elevated CO may indicate a failing Oxygen sensor or a possibly failing catalytic converter. Replacing worn spark plugs will also effect this figure.
High readings in both the CO and NOX catagories indicate that the EGR valve is not working. This valve recycles exhaust gas back into the intake for complete burns. This valve is mainly to control high NOX emmissions.
Hydro Carbons: THC
Carbon Monoxide: CO
Nitrous Oxide: NOX
Carbon Dioxide: CO2
The pollutants are CO and NOX because the desired result of complete combustion is CO2 and H2O. Usually there is no limit to fail on in the CO2 catagory which makes me suspicious of your figures.
Question: Is the "Check Engine Soon" light coming on periodically? This probably indicates the oxygen sensor is failing. This sensors tells the computer to cause the engine to produce hotter exhaust gases. The catalytic converter needs heat to work effiently.
High THC and elevated CO may indicate a failing Oxygen sensor or a possibly failing catalytic converter. Replacing worn spark plugs will also effect this figure.
High readings in both the CO and NOX catagories indicate that the EGR valve is not working. This valve recycles exhaust gas back into the intake for complete burns. This valve is mainly to control high NOX emmissions.
wrightz28
04-05-2005, 04:43 PM
In a nutshell, the engine is running way too rich and excessive incomplete combustion is evident by all the readings. As yogi stated, the best start would be a thorough shakedown of the ignition system, you may also have a non-firing cylinder for that matter. Either way, sounds like routine maint. has not been in practice.
Don't forget to change the oil too, if it's that rich, gas can leak past the rings and really foul things up.
Don't forget to change the oil too, if it's that rich, gas can leak past the rings and really foul things up.
LeBuick
04-05-2005, 05:30 PM
The car didn't study!
Also, make sure the car was up to operating temp before she had it tested. If it is not then it will fail...
Edit: Not trying to insult you but we live 2 blocks from the testing station and when my wife took her car etc...
Also, make sure the car was up to operating temp before she had it tested. If it is not then it will fail...
Edit: Not trying to insult you but we live 2 blocks from the testing station and when my wife took her car etc...
volkerc
04-05-2005, 06:07 PM
In a nutshell, the engine is running way too rich and excessive incomplete combustion is evident by all the readings. As yogi stated, the best start would be a thorough shakedown of the ignition system, you may also have a non-firing cylinder for that matter. Either way, sounds like routine maint. has not been in practice.
Don't forget to change the oil too, if it's that rich, gas can leak past the rings and really foul things up.
totally agree!!
Don't forget to change the oil too, if it's that rich, gas can leak past the rings and really foul things up.
totally agree!!
1534dover
04-08-2005, 11:27 AM
The figures you have posted don't make sense. You should have four catagories....
Hydro Carbons: THC
Carbon Monoxide: CO
Nitrous Oxide: NOX
Carbon Dioxide: CO2
The pollutants are CO and NOX because the desired result of complete combustion is CO2 and H2O. Usually there is no limit to fail on in the CO2 catagory which makes me suspicious of your figures.
Question: Is the "Check Engine Soon" light coming on periodically? This probably indicates the oxygen sensor is failing. This sensors tells the computer to cause the engine to produce hotter exhaust gases. The catalytic converter needs heat to work effiently.
High THC and elevated CO may indicate a failing Oxygen sensor or a possibly failing catalytic converter. Replacing worn spark plugs will also effect this figure.
High readings in both the CO and NOX catagories indicate that the EGR valve is not working. This valve recycles exhaust gas back into the intake for complete burns. This valve is mainly to control high NOX emmissions.
Sorry. Here are the correct figures:
THC STANDARD = 2.00
READINGS = 10.45
RESULT = FAIL
NOX STANDARD = 3.70
READINGS = 0.11
RESULT = PASS
CO STANDARD = 32.00
READINGS = 296.9
RESULT = FAIL
CO2 STANDARD = N/A
READINGS = 409.0
RESULT = N/A
Fuel Use mpg
STANDARD = N/A
READINGS = 10.37
RESULT = (left blank)
Ave HP/EXE
STANDARD = N/A
READINGS = 10.10
RESULTS = F124
Whoever did the report circled the "failed" items as those needing attention. She has not reported that the "check engine soon" light comes on. As someone else has suggested, this engine has not had regular maintenance. In fact, the last tune up was 60,000 miles ago, and they did not change the oxygen sensor at that time. The vehicle
now now has 235,728 miles on it. The repair shop I have been using would probably charge $350 for necessary work, but I think I can do these things myself with a little coaching from you guys on the forum. I will change plugs, air filter, oxygen sensor, pvc value, possibily fuel filter
and have her try again.
Hydro Carbons: THC
Carbon Monoxide: CO
Nitrous Oxide: NOX
Carbon Dioxide: CO2
The pollutants are CO and NOX because the desired result of complete combustion is CO2 and H2O. Usually there is no limit to fail on in the CO2 catagory which makes me suspicious of your figures.
Question: Is the "Check Engine Soon" light coming on periodically? This probably indicates the oxygen sensor is failing. This sensors tells the computer to cause the engine to produce hotter exhaust gases. The catalytic converter needs heat to work effiently.
High THC and elevated CO may indicate a failing Oxygen sensor or a possibly failing catalytic converter. Replacing worn spark plugs will also effect this figure.
High readings in both the CO and NOX catagories indicate that the EGR valve is not working. This valve recycles exhaust gas back into the intake for complete burns. This valve is mainly to control high NOX emmissions.
Sorry. Here are the correct figures:
THC STANDARD = 2.00
READINGS = 10.45
RESULT = FAIL
NOX STANDARD = 3.70
READINGS = 0.11
RESULT = PASS
CO STANDARD = 32.00
READINGS = 296.9
RESULT = FAIL
CO2 STANDARD = N/A
READINGS = 409.0
RESULT = N/A
Fuel Use mpg
STANDARD = N/A
READINGS = 10.37
RESULT = (left blank)
Ave HP/EXE
STANDARD = N/A
READINGS = 10.10
RESULTS = F124
Whoever did the report circled the "failed" items as those needing attention. She has not reported that the "check engine soon" light comes on. As someone else has suggested, this engine has not had regular maintenance. In fact, the last tune up was 60,000 miles ago, and they did not change the oxygen sensor at that time. The vehicle
now now has 235,728 miles on it. The repair shop I have been using would probably charge $350 for necessary work, but I think I can do these things myself with a little coaching from you guys on the forum. I will change plugs, air filter, oxygen sensor, pvc value, possibily fuel filter
and have her try again.
wrightz28
04-08-2005, 12:25 PM
Aren't kids great? 10 mpg would have been the first indicator of a problem. By routinely keeping up on mine I get 17-19 city.
Everything is pretty straight forward on the vehicle. The only problem I think you are going to experience is the fact everything has been in in place for so long. I can only stress so much to be very careful when attempting to remove the plugs, they are no doubt going to put up a fight and also don't react very well to stress being put on them. Get you self a plug socket that includes a rubber insulator to prevent breakage. The oxygen sensor, pretty much the same, you can use a closed end wrench (combo), size eludes be right now, I think a 7/8".
And definately line wrenches for the fuel filter. 9 out of 10 times they are pretty rusted up so have rust eater handy. And usually the front most flare nut connection will break free, but the rear will not, the trick: put your line wrench on the line's flare nut and loosen the filter off the flare which is no doubt seized. And make sure you depressurize the fuel system first, remove the fuse labled for injectors (#10? ) start the engine, should not catch, but if it does it will quickly die. Crank over again for just a few seconds and that should take care of it. If you forget this, you are going to get a very flamable shower! There will still be a very minute amount when you get the first flare loose, and obviously gas in the filter, just no pressure.
The rest is fairly simple, replace the wires one at time and all the other basic stuff and you s'b ok. Don't forget about the PCV valve and charcoal canister filter(located uner the air filter box, black cylinder in the fender, one bolt holding it in, filter is on the bottom.
Need help, just ask, but also get yourself a chilton's manual while getting the parts.
Study up before tackling and make sure you have what you need (anti-seeze on the new plug threads will make life easier for next time) and that you are comfortable with it.
Note(s)*
Don't foget to change the oil, it's fouled.
You may be looking at a problem with the catalytic converter based on how much gas is being unburned by the engine.
Everything is pretty straight forward on the vehicle. The only problem I think you are going to experience is the fact everything has been in in place for so long. I can only stress so much to be very careful when attempting to remove the plugs, they are no doubt going to put up a fight and also don't react very well to stress being put on them. Get you self a plug socket that includes a rubber insulator to prevent breakage. The oxygen sensor, pretty much the same, you can use a closed end wrench (combo), size eludes be right now, I think a 7/8".
And definately line wrenches for the fuel filter. 9 out of 10 times they are pretty rusted up so have rust eater handy. And usually the front most flare nut connection will break free, but the rear will not, the trick: put your line wrench on the line's flare nut and loosen the filter off the flare which is no doubt seized. And make sure you depressurize the fuel system first, remove the fuse labled for injectors (#10? ) start the engine, should not catch, but if it does it will quickly die. Crank over again for just a few seconds and that should take care of it. If you forget this, you are going to get a very flamable shower! There will still be a very minute amount when you get the first flare loose, and obviously gas in the filter, just no pressure.
The rest is fairly simple, replace the wires one at time and all the other basic stuff and you s'b ok. Don't forget about the PCV valve and charcoal canister filter(located uner the air filter box, black cylinder in the fender, one bolt holding it in, filter is on the bottom.
Need help, just ask, but also get yourself a chilton's manual while getting the parts.
Study up before tackling and make sure you have what you need (anti-seeze on the new plug threads will make life easier for next time) and that you are comfortable with it.
Note(s)*
Don't foget to change the oil, it's fouled.
You may be looking at a problem with the catalytic converter based on how much gas is being unburned by the engine.
1534dover
04-17-2005, 11:58 AM
I have replaced the spark plugs oxygen sensor, canister filter and air filter. I changed the oil a couple of weeks ago. However, I am blaffled about changing the PCV valve. Do you have any suggestions as to how to remove it? I can email you a picture of what it looks like. I have an 89 Riviera that looks exactly the same and a 92 Park Avenue which has the same engine, but the PCV is in a different location.
wrightz28
04-18-2005, 09:38 AM
Your's might be the one that's located in a housing at the passenger side end of the intake manifold I believe. There's a little twist off cap and there it is. Needle nose pliears are your best friend from this point, and watch out for the o-ring, it likes to stay in the housing.
1534dover
04-18-2005, 08:11 PM
I believe I have found the pcv on my 89 (daughter took the 88 back to her home. The back three spark plug wires run right over the top of it No twist off top. Will it pull right up out of the engine?
And where will I likely find the fuel filter? Thanks in advance.
And where will I likely find the fuel filter? Thanks in advance.
1534dover
04-27-2005, 11:49 PM
thanks to all your help, the 88 Type T Electra passed the emissions test today, 4/27/2005
wrightz28
04-28-2005, 09:28 AM
That's cool. Now that she'll spend half as much on gas let's see if it stays kept up?
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